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 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 101
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pof rules state main pic if we choose to share for public viewing-our face appears in it.there are reasons if we use a picture -a body can be anybodies-i tell you what ,i tend to find the unusual pics of something other, be it: scenery , a drawing, a sexy torso, black and white artistic foto... whatever, more appealing/interesting -diversity it is attractive...
uniformity is boring and hence uniforms are frequently implemented in business/federal/health/education/religious institutions, indicative of roles as well as focusing on the mission not the individual...
we can want in one hand and shit in the other which one fills faster?, or "How does it feel to want?" , or "Sucks to be U" lol all work
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 102
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/27/2019 9:54:34 AM
"Nice looking face you have, AdventureJoe. So, Hawking's rants about not being to attract a female is pretty much bullshit? You don't say.. "

>>>its still interesting to watch men who get complimented on their photos, tell others that they should just go ahead and ask women out--not just AJ, NG got raves once he put up a close up photo. sort of like listening to financially-secure men lecture that money has little to do with their success in life, its all about attitude. that's not to knock on the men who have contributed (we do appreciate the view from their world, a reminder that we are all different and that's ok), or to defend Hawking (he doens't need my assistance). I can say for myself if my failure rate over the last four decades was 50% instead of 80%, i'd still be flirting daily with women (me too be damned--if you offer a woman what she already wants, there is no harassment, just like no customer ready to buy is upset the salesperson just showed up to sell them what they came to get). at my last occupation, i learned i had a rep for asking women out, but i doubt it helped or hurt me--attractive men also flirted, and it didn't stop the ladies from always finding an excuse to be inside their orbit.

i do get Hawking's point about single moms. I'm not a fan of children, for the simple fact they are the literal definition of childish behavior. if i'm going to put up with immaturity, self-focus, and childishness, then i'm doing it in the hope of good sex :) but what will talk to a single mom about in order to find things in common? generally, too many weren't able to go to college, so discussions of Hemmingway versus Faulkner are probably out. global politics and macroeconomics? probably not as understood as what Kim Kardhashian has done lately. likely not many travel stories, as the child (understandably) takes up most of the money. Like most parents, the child is at least 50% of the conversation (assuming the child isn't an adult who has moved out), which means 50% of this person's life, i have zero in common with. hopefully there will be shared matters we can connect with--or we'll really lust for each other's body :)

i'll confess, as an older person, i don't want drama--and its real easy to read a person, if you know what to look for, and recognize red flags. if i met them in a bar and could hit it and quit it, i might (if i could get over taking a drunk woman home for sex. i've seen it go bad too many times, i envy the guys who don't worry about it, you have more options than i). i want someone with brains, personality, and incites lust within me. the older i get, the less easy it is to find that person--and they tend to have already been "caught" by every other male looking for someone worth their time. if i was more "what women look for", i'd have more options. but that is the way life is. there's other aspects of my life that people wish was present in their's, so i'm not crying woe is me--i could lower my standards or my comfort levels in a lot of ways, if getting laid was all i was looking for.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 103
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/27/2019 12:37:39 PM
It is easy for good-looking people to give advice but they really don't get it. The rest of us who fall short in the looks department feel the way we do for a reason. I'm not short or blonde or thin or pretty and though I would like to think of myself as average, I don't have much optimism that there is a fish in the sea for me because as a poor, single mother, it puts me even lower on the desirablity scale. Since I was an awkward preteen I always dreamed of falling in love and at 35 I think its just not in the cards. Every single time I'm met a guy and fallen in like with him, he has not felt the same way, and I've gotten my hopes up way too many times. Its really hard not to let it put you down after it happens a few dozen or so times. I'm trying to put myself into a frame of mind where I accept that I am going to be alone, that there is no one out there for me. Maybe I'll be happier then when I can accept it but I'm not there yet. But seeing all these guys all the time that I am attracted to who I like the personality of and knowing that I don't have a chance hurts. I know there is a ton of guys who would like me but why can't I like one of them? I've tried hard so many times to give a guy a long chance to see if I feel something for him but attraction never sparks. I know a lot of not-goodlooking people find love and so I try to ignore looks because maybe there is someone I'm gonna fall for based on their personality.

As for single mothers usually being uneducated and having nothing to talk about, that's a load of b.s. I have two degrees and I love talking about history, politics, news etc. I also am a really big sportsfan. I'd love to have someone to talk about that stuff with. I'd like to talk about something outside my kids if I got the chance more.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 104
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/27/2019 1:37:47 PM

its still interesting to watch men who get complimented on their photos, tell others that they should just go ahead and ask women out--not just AJ, NG got raves once he put up a close up photo. sort of like listening to financially-secure men lecture that money has little to do with their success in life, its all about attitude.


Hi, let me address the above comment. This will be long, in keeping in compliance with both NG and Hawking mutant abilities to write long winded posts :),jk(or am I?)

First, Hawking has been complimented before, many times. More than most of us,since guys that complain or have trouble often need an ego boost or support, and men and women have empathy if the member is a regular contributor to the forum. But god help the guy wanting an ego boost who is a stranger.

In many ways what you say is true. However, you gotta remember women IMHO, are less homogeneous as to what they attract to, especially physical. Studies have been done confirming that females are often all over the place , while put a bunch of guys in a room and we can generally agree with who we find attractive. Therefore, Hawking can be gorgeous for some women, regardless as to the number that don't like him.
Also, my advice isn't coming from my successes as you might think. They stem from my failures. In fact, google and you will see I am in the "hardest" internet dating pool in the Western world. NYC is very competitive and us guys are competing with millionaires who have had extensive amount of plastic surgery. Hell, we compete with sometimes people with fame. Brooklyn, apparently, is the worst of all. I feel this is due to the diversity combined with old school stereotyping(for example Jews date Jews, Hipsters date hipsters,etc).But the important thing to note is standing at 6 ft tall my avg response rate was only 25%. I could get higher but the amount of work needed was too much. In other places(except Miami which is also hard) I did awesome in Austin and Houston but that was due to the GUIDO effect I believe. It is a phrase I just coined to explain how we can do better in some places just because we are different. Apparently a lot of cow girls have an Italian fetish there. Also average women can get over 100 responses a say, even over 40. That means WE are all dealing with a majority that DON'T like us and are disgusted at the thought of dating us, so to speak.
Another Point I am making is LOCATION, LOCATION,LOCATION. I believe and Pig (remember him?) believed, that one of the most important things that determines a guys success is location. There are just certain types that will do better in some places than other places. The mid west for me is a no fly zone for example. NG really never discuses how he does. He is focused on Sally,**** etc but if he does very well in the midwest, he is lucky. I get the impression for the Midwest a guy has to be large, wear a flannel shirt and have light features.I am stereotyping but my point is the type that does well there is different than the type doing well on the Coasts.Hawking, he has to ADAPT to the location he is in or LEAVE.As a film producer he probably do better in Brooklyn(LA?) since the hipsters are all artsy/fartsy. If he stays in Tampa, he has to accept the online population that is there. That includes a lot of single mothers and non whites. It isn't my humble opinion, it is pure mathematics. As he said, the attractive women who are childless are in high demand. They are probably the equivalent in Tampa to writing the models we have online in NYC(yes they REALLY are online). To get them we have to expect a lot failure and/or step up our game. In Tampa, it would be harder for myself to get a childless women who are attractive if that population is "cherished". In my geographic area , single women who are childless are pretty common. Slim/athletic women are also common(more so than the opposite). Adapt or DIE they say!

I would also like to add that I don't make deal breakers personally as to child vs no child and/or nationality/culture.I even didn't age discriminate. In fact my gal is Brazilian. If I was like Hawking and only wanted "American cultured" women my prospects would be slim considering half the population of Brooklyn is foreign born lol. We all have right to be picky, but also we need to have a good grasp of the battlefield and adapt.

I also am not a fan of little children. But you know what? The childless women spend half the time talking about work or their social circle. I care even less about those things.She can talk about kids and I will talk about my cats. I find that women regardless of culture have basic things I can relate with. I like movies, travel, and good food. I find that universal.I am sure Hawking can also find common ground.

As for my comment about Hawkings profile. Well I know exactly what I am talking about.I am going to again, give my opinion,one that could make a difference. There was once a member here who had trouble. He couldn't get dates and I think never had women interested in him. Was depressed and a bit suicidal possibly. He posted some negative posts and a female member here who is attractive, and popular in this form(not an A@##hole like I am ) tried to help him. She used her opinions as a female and took my advice. Last I heard he had multiple women trying to get him into bed and probably isn't here anymore because he is in a relationship. Me and NG even disagree here.He is wrong IMHO that long profiles aren't good. Long boring profiles are bad but long interesting ones are liquid gold IMHO. Cowboy,rip, had a long one. Some liked it , some didn't BUT he had many women initiating with him because of the "comfort" formed after reading his long profile. Women seem IMHO more likely to initiate if they form comfort because most women don't initiate and doing so is outside the comfort zone for many of them. Outermind, who was a writer btw ,also did well because he understood that word usage that creates excitement, or any emotion can accomplish the same thing. Put together and your well armed. Because of my low rate of return in NYC, I decided that it would be better to do online dating by having women write to me 1st, like those 2 men did. Since I am in the largest population area in the Western world I could be successful if only a small % initiated with me so it was worth the effort. Also the large population means I can afford to experiment and lose potential dates. I was determined to try different methods and find what worked best. I also want to mention that I am not bragging and never do so because I feel most guys can definitely improve and in my way of thinking my statistics might not be much better than anyone else. Mathematically if a guy gets 1 women write him per month in an area with 500k population, that is the same stat as if I have 40 women write me in a month due to 21 million population here. We have the same statistics, the only advantage I have is that I happen to live in an area with an abundance of the type of women I attract to(slim/athletic) and therefore those writing me fit that type, but the guy with 1 per month might live in a geographic area where the women writing him don't fit his ideal. Remember both men and women on here often complain they get no one but in reality they just don't attract the type they "like". Another point supporting how location matters.

So how do I get them to write first? Well, the only way to do that is to make them LIKE me 1st to the extent that they are already forming an attraction to me that is beyond my pics and NOT just pics. We had women on here do experiments using male model s as pics with a profile and they only had response rates short of 50%, so proof that pictures alone are NOT enough. Messages also are not a much value(not worth the time involved crafting them). The owner of POF, Markus,IMHO isn't giving the best advice. Best advice is be different than the other 99%. Profile reviews, don't get me started. I once posted there when I first joined and the advice I got there would leave me an online virgin forever. Key is look at the other 99% and do something different.

How to do that? My experience is that women can actually form an attraction if they develop emotions based on reading a profile. Even a negative emotion can sometimes work, but a strong emotion it has to be. Therefore, I realized that my old, resume type profile that 99% of guys create on here wasn't going to cut it. I had a few of those and I saw that it didn't work good, so I ADAPTED. I started making longish outrageous pieces of work that didn't sound like a resume. I told a story of the type of guy I am or will be, used recognizable cliches and be unpredictable with an edge. Adjectives replacing facts.Add sensuality. Sorry, but 99% of women really don't care you have a dog and that you describe your average boring job.99% of your competition doing the same thing because MARKUS and profile reviews say so. Just like they wouldn't care about it if you approached them in real life, don't expect they care about it more here.
I even have one where I sound like a total jerk and insult women, but guess what? It works! I have women writing me telling me how it is the craziest thing they have read and they want to #$%%^^. If it was REALLY JUST photo's that mattered , wouldn't my well written "resume/portrait type profile work? Nope. Photo's aren't good enough. It draws them in but they aren't going to initiate with me just because of that or even want to meet me.

In conclusion: Best would be trying to succeed with the 3 pillars: photos, messages, and profiles. But be different, invest energy in profile and NOT messages. I feel that if one focuses on improving in these 3 areas, which might mean self improvement sometimes, then they will increase their chance of success by increasing their opportunities. This is regardless of "looks", etc. Yes shorter men will have hurdles most of the time , as will others, based on how they are perceived. We can't always change everything that someone can react negatively to but we ALL have the ability, although it can be difficult, to alter peoples perceptions of our shortcomings in someways.

P.S.:I do think Hawking profile is probably more interesting than the average guy but since the cut here means we have to be MUCH better than average, there is room for improvement. Also NG, you are too humble to ever say how you do online but if it works for you, great. You need change nothing. However, although you profile is humorous I personally don't think it is the best you can do . I think you can improve also but if it works for you , you have no reason to do so. For me, I had a reason, so had to improve. If I wasn't taken maybe I would need more improvement. Sadly, about a half dozen pick up artists have copied me, so I must know what I am doing, considering I am not a pick up artist LOL.
 spot4username
Joined: 12/15/2015
Msg: 105
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/27/2019 2:11:52 PM
^^^
NG has stated that his profile is not looking to get dates.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 106
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/27/2019 2:25:13 PM

has stated that his profile is not looking to get dates.

Perhaps, but I don't think it was always that way. That being said, that isn't an excuse IMHO! I , as well as Outofmind, specifically say we are taken in our profiles but that didn't stop us from leaving our profiles up since , our profiles are , in a sense, a reflection of us. KJ wasn't looking always but made sure she had a profile that was way better than average.

In addition, as you know me, and I don't mean to be arrogant saying this, but my cultural belief is "put up or shut up" which translates as if one gives advice as one has knowledge they better be able to back it up somehow. I can't change my belief system unfortunately. Remember, my career was basically enforcing my will on others by being able to "put up", otherwise I would be in danger if I didn't "shut up". Therefore, I am not going to change my opinion here and no one is going to be able to convince me otherwise since my experience and observation dictates my views and actions. Such as it is for us all.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 107
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/27/2019 3:26:51 PM

is easy for good-looking people to give advice but they really don't get it. The rest of us who fall short in the looks department feel the way we do for a reason.

That can hold true for most everybody. Everyone has advice to give but can't put themselves in other persons shoes. However, one truism of dating/attraction that you fail to mention and it seems like you don't grasp is that ALMOST EVERYONE has the same problem. The majority of people most of the time can't find someone they are crazy about , who is also crazy about them. The so called good looking girls(that you think are good looking) might get dates with guys you want to date but they themselves are NOT getting the type of guy they really want and when they meet that guy , he wants only sex. Guess what? Guys want sex from women they find less attractive than themselves as well so the playing field is more equal then you think. All have the same problem, if it is about long term relationship.


I'm not short or blonde or thin or pretty and though I would like to think of myself as average,

That's ok because not everyone wants a blonde or thin girl. As for the term "pretty", you do realize that, unlike women, men base their attraction IMHO more on a women figure than facial features..right? I think it is just DNA since men , being more cave -manish, attract to health and that is most often percieved by them in view of a women's figure. Lets put it this way, a women can have a gourgeous face but if he isn't attracted to her figure, she might as well be fugly. On the other hand, a women can have a have a "butterface" but if her body is hot, not only will she be desired , she will be called smoking hot. Add makeup and wardrobe that is feminine and it will be the same effect. Unfortunately, political correctness has in some places seem to discourage women to play up their assets. I live in an area that is full of Russian/Ukrainians(My mom was Russian). The women walk around like models. They dress in high heels, best clothing and tons of make up professionally done. American guys go crazy about them. I was never able to figure it out when I was younger because, my relatives look normal to me. Their faces are no different, in fact some had really bad skin from all the makeup but then I figured it out. The women were naturally slim and dressed to kill and slapped on makeup and the men think they were smoking hot but it is because they are focused on their bodies and femininity. Every women can do that! Also plenty of men like thicker women. My friend who I grew up with is Puerto Rican and considered a 10(if you believe that number system). He could model. He won't even look at the women I find attractive. He thinks they are ugly. Hot girls wanted him who he thought was ugly and I wanted.Feel sorry about overweight men. BBW women( your not one btw) have groupies. Overweight men don't.




As for single mothers usually being uneducated and having nothing to talk about, that's a load of b.s. I have two degrees and I love talking about history, politics, news etc. I also am a really big sports fan. I'd love to have someone to talk about that stuff with. I'd like to talk about something outside my kids if I got the chance more.


Don't take that seriously. Hawking has to justify his views by stating something. It is the human thing to do. He made a bunch a generalizations to support why he can't date them. If Freud analyzed him it would be obvious that growing up in a white suburb has left him with a desire to fit in like most suburban people want to do. That for him means dating white slim women. My only issue with women with children is that they may not have had time for me and not that I am needy or anything but I am actively retired, financially secure which means a lot of time on my hands and I needed someone who can accommodate that so I don't need a harem lol.

As for being poor. I am not sure how that influences much. Men I don't think care about that stuff. They just don't want to support someone else kid I assume.
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 108
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/27/2019 7:42:52 PM
^i think the wealth aspect has much more influence than you give credit for any person dating with ltr committed pairings in mind..
 2mstone
Joined: 11/16/2017
Msg: 109
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/27/2019 7:46:06 PM
if woman want taller men how come im single still! i stand almost 7ft and i been known for washing a window or 2 andonce in awhile change a lightbulb
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 110
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/27/2019 8:54:15 PM
The wealth thing does matter for women but in a different way than for men. A lot of what makes a woman gorgeous is the clothes, makeup, and hairstyle. All those take money, something I really can't afford to do. And when you can make yourself up really nice, you feel confident. And then there is paying babysitters so I can go out, which is another issue. Family babysits a lot when I'm at work so I don't ask them for fun things. And then there's going out and worrying if he picks somewhere a little more expensive and then if I pay for myself will it be too much or will I seem like a cheapskate because all I order is a bowl of soup?
 Million_Reasons
Joined: 10/23/2018
Msg: 111
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/27/2019 9:06:40 PM
A lot of what makes a woman gorgeous is the clothes, makeup, and hairstyle. All those take money, something I really can't afford to do. "

Stop making excuses. Thrift stores, drug store cosmetics and you tube videos on hair styles are just as effective.

Be honest with yourself. Can't change what you don't first acknowledge.


Seriously....I think you and Hawking might be a perfect match. Don't you two ever get tired of the "woe is me " narrative?

Am I wrong? Or am I just saying what many are thinking? ;)
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 112
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 2:57:39 AM

its still interesting to watch men who get complimented on their photos, tell others that they should just go ahead and ask women out--not just AJ, NG got raves once he put up a close up photo. sort of like listening to financially-secure men lecture that money has little to do with their success in life, its all about attitude.

Lol - I agree with your point. But there's also good looking guys who are too shy to make moves who do need to do that. Assuming a guy's not in the "Top 1%" in looks, if he's not going to put effort Online to get a girl, given the boy/girl ratio -- landing an objectively good looking gal without 'a catch' when living in a mutual mid-sized city isn't going to fly so well. Much better chances for most guys if you don't even require a gal within your 'league', and even just-a-date suits your needs. I never said online dating is or should be easy for guys in general. Not too difficult to end up landing a date with a gal who's at least "hookup worthy" in the looks dept given some time & effort, but that by no means implies that alone is a success.

i do get Hawking's point about single moms. I'm not a fan of children, for the simple fact they are the literal definition of childish behavior. if i'm going to put up with immaturity, self-focus, and childishness, then i'm doing it in the hope of good sex :)

First, this reminds me of your story about the hot gal at the bank -- and your no-regrets thoughts about not scheming a way to see if you could get a date out of her because she had kids and seemed to be in that dept, so to speak. I said this before on a recent post: You're just chicken + you're only looking for eHarmony-compatibility Out-Of-The-Gates. That's fine for a guy who has tons of dating options. Not at all an excuse for a guy who should get out there and get some female/dating experience again -- going out on a date or two or three does not = spending time with her kids. I learned in college when casually dating/hooking up with some recently divorced MILFs -- don't judge them on the surface when it comes to that level of dating! Go Casual -- you'll enjoy it. It opens up your options that heed you, too.

However, you gotta remember women IMHO, are less homogeneous as to what they attract to, especially physical. Studies have been done confirming that females are often all over the place , while put a bunch of guys in a room and we can generally agree with who we find attractive. Therefore, Hawking can be gorgeous for some women, regardless as to the number that don't like him.

I agree that about women -- and it's just in general as YMMV on an individual basis -- and it's more about a guy's style/type that they care more about. Us guys don't care about that as much, because we're in a different position. If the gal is Naturally Attractive (we don't care what kind of shoes she's wearing FFS) but is of a certain style/class different than ours -- but we sense very possible attraction from her when mingling with her and others... yes, we roll. We 'fight' for opportunities, and care less about style/type matching when it comes to getting the dating scene rolling for us. Gals are in a different boat + care more about style/type matching, even if they're not LTR-hunting at all.

That said, just because that's the case -- does not mean it's Random. So I wouldn't say Hawking would have a better chance at being gorgeous to women than his female clone to men. Butt, if Hawking put himself in a unique style and hung out where said folks of said style hung out -- he could more easily catch a gal that way. Going that "undercover" method wouldn't really increase a gal's chances.

Another Point I am making is LOCATION, LOCATION,LOCATION.

I agree. Namely about July who lives out in the boonies. It hurts both genders -- but pound for pound, it's easier for women to get pounded than a guy, when in more scarce areas. I will disagree with you on what you think about the midwest, as if we're talking about Nebraska. I know some people who've Only been in Chicago or NY tend to think this way, but they wise up if/when settling into a mid-sized city. No, mid-sized cities are not farmland with flannels. Mid-sized cities with suburbs and the like are just mini-versions of the big city. I'll also say that it's Not tougher in a denser population to find a gal -- quite the opposite.

Hawking, he has to ADAPT to the location he is in or LEAVE.As a film producer he probably do better in Brooklyn(LA?) since the hipsters are all artsy/fartsy. If he stays in Tampa, he has to accept the online population that is there.

I agree his location isn't ideal for him, despite it not being some small area when down south. But like Location, Location, Location -- it's also what Locations You Go To. Very key when you're dealing with a mid-sized city or more. Which goes along with the type of gals you're aiming for too; especially when without Any Dating Experience Since Bill Clinton was president, wanting to go LTR-worthy-or-nothing when hunting, and only hunting online. Not good, especially when being a short guy like he is.

He is wrong IMHO that long profiles aren't good. Long boring profiles are bad but long interesting ones are liquid gold IMHO. Cowboy,rip, had a long one. Some liked it , some didn't BUT he had many women initiating with him because of the "comfort" formed after reading his long profile.

Online pickup-a-girl guides + OKC stats showed that non-long profiles garnered better results. Hawking's isn't short. Some picky people may call it a little long. And it is, when compared to Tinder & Bumble. Especially his second part rattling off places too long he's been. His isn't boring nor super-long. It's not how long it is -- but how interesting it is. If it is truly interesting, it can be lengthy -- if you're aiming for the gals who like that as reflective of their own lengthy ones (good advantage), and overall can't really complain about overall results. But usually even if they're not boring at all -- people's attention span is Less.

It's kind of like the concept that you don't want a lengthy profile + talk forever with the gal -- then, before you ever meet, there's less to talk about on a 1st date if you or she is shy about it. Element of mystery and things to unravel go a long way.

So how do I get them to write first?

Have a good looking picture, good stats in profile, write an interesting profile, be online -- and live in one of the biggest cities in the world. :)

NG has stated that his profile is not looking to get dates.

Yes. My profile basically could just have repeated sentences of "I'm just here for the forums" over and over again. Obviously what I wrote in there out of humor, is not set for 99.5% of gals who even have a good sense of humor, to write me. It's my forums-only profile (fun with it).

Perhaps, but I don't think it was always that way.

True. Of my "past life" user account when I wasn't NG. :)

KJ wasn't looking always but made sure she had a profile that was way better than average.

True, but in her profile did she describe her pet raccoon collection and how she lets them out at night, and how the herding them back by dawn reflects the investment one should put in relationships? And how a drive-in with one of them would make an ideal 1st date? :)

but my cultural belief is "put up or shut up" which translates as if one gives advice as one has knowledge they better be able to back it up somehow.

Online, that's tough to do vs IRL.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 113
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 7:54:37 AM

i think the wealth aspect has much more influence than you give credit for any person dating with ltr committed pairings in mind..

Perhaps, but in my experience generally no, unless said man has a certain family name(Carnegie, Vanderbilt) that has responsibilities. But understand Myself and my male acquaintances tend to be from traditional backgrounds where the man is king of the castle and has to SUPPLY the castle, so to speak. For younger people it very well might be different today since we live in a world where 2 incomes is needed and credit scores are important.

True, but in her profile did she describe her pet raccoon collection and how she lets them out at night, and how the herding them back by dawn reflects the investment one should put in relationships? And how a drive-in with one of them would make an ideal 1st date? :
)
Seems you guys get the Turtle herding, raccoon herding jokes all at the same place. Is it where G men buy their sunglasses?

Have a good looking picture, good stats in profile, write an interesting profile, be online -- and live in one of the biggest cities in the world. :)

Agreed the 3 pillars. My point is pictures alone usually won't be enough. Large metropolis helps in increased numbers doing so but my 3th and 4th best cities were Orlando and Tampa so I do well in smaller cities as well. I actually get in NYC often messages from other parts of country and world. If you recall, a few minutes before my present GF contacted me, I got a message from a girl from Brazil. She must have told her friend living near myself to check me out.

I agree. Namely about July who lives out in the boonies. It hurts both genders -- but pound for pound, it's easier for women to get pounded than a guy, when in more scarce areas. I will disagree with you on what you think about the Midwest, as if we're talking about Nebraska. I know some people who've Only been in Chicago or NY tend to think this way, but they wise up if/when settling into a mid-sized city. No, mid-sized cities are not farmland with flannels. Mid-sized cities with suburbs and the like are just mini-versions of the big city. I'll also say that it's Not tougher in a denser population to find a gal -- quite the opposite.

I was joking. But I am not their type in general or perhaps there are fewer desirable women there so the ones that are , are more picky? I don't know. Ironically, the most complainers might be from Midwest on the forum so there might be an issue there.
Yes denser cities has more opportunities. That is why Austin and Houston was best for me. NYC (and perhaps LA) is very different. The city beats to its own drum and it is extremely difficult on an individual basis because people are less relationship minded and more picky. Also if girls get 200 messages per day that kind of means one has to be in the top .5% to get noticed. Also wealth and education requirements are also increased here. Then you have the diversity with traditional values. For example, Italian guidettes write" only Italian men". Russian women write " only whites apply", etc. The native population isn't politically correct lol.

It seems we basically agree on most things, he can make improvements!

The wealth thing does matter for women but in a different way than for men. A lot of what makes a woman gorgeous is the clothes, makeup, and hairstyle. All those take money, something I really can't afford to do. And when you can make yourself up really nice, you feel confident. And then there is paying babysitters so I can go out, which is another issue. Family babysits a lot when I'm at work so I don't ask them for fun things. And then there's going out and worrying if he picks somewhere a little more expensive and then if I pay for myself will it be too much or will I seem like a cheapskate because all I order is a bowl of soup?

I don't agree. Nothing I am going to say will convince you though because women often imho are clueless to what really attracts most men. Problem is all the garbage articles, often written by women , in Cosmopolitan,etc.You have long hair, you are mostly there already. Guys see the forest more than the trees, so to speak. First, most I know prefer women has long hair. A blow dryer can give any gal that 80's look that we tend to like and a can of hairspray. Makeup is cheap at the drug store. Men don't care nor need you to wear certain brand named stuff. In fact , most of us don't notice that stuff. Any women can , if they have time, exercise and lose some wight if need be. Hawking can't grow , so he has it worst. I did have a friend who wore lifts put into 2 inch cowboy boots though.

Clothing? LOL. Lets not get started there. I am amazed how cheaply women's clothing can be. We don't care that it is Dior or Chanel. That I think is more something women do to show off to other women. Men have it worst in my experience. I will give you a recent real example.
We went on a cruise last year from Tampa. They have "formal" nights and she wanted me to get a suit that will be ok in the hot climate. All my suits are dark. Anyway, to get my suit we had to go to an expensive store , since cheap stores sell low quality items when it comes to men formal wear. Had to be brand name. Then due to my figure, pay a fortune to get it basically tailored like it was custom made. Then had to buy shoes, not cheap.So basically, I got raped by the store to buy clothing I will wear 2 times, maybe. Her idea!

Now lets talk about GF. She takes me to Forever 21, the version RED that sells their stuff even more discounted. If you don't know, it is an American chain that sells stylish clothing for low cost. She immediately heads for the middle of the store where there are dresses and skirts and legging/tight pants. You grabs a****ail dress and black tight pants that are kind of spandex shiny with black see through mess on the side. Popular style in my area last few years. The****ail dress cost 12 dollars and the pants were special reduced for 5 dollars. No less hot then if the label was Guess on it. Then she heads to Rainbow shop and buys high heel shoes for I think 11 dollars. My collared shirt cost more than her whole outfit. Boohoo to women who think it cost a lot of money to go out, especially when men don't generally care about who designed the outfits she wears and more often expected to pay the check. She buys lip stick when she walks out of the subway at Midtown all the time for literally a few bucks. She doesn't need it but says it is too cheap to let go. Did I mention constantly clothing she has coming in the mail from Ebay. Don't you have those options in Canada?There has to be some payment for being forced to eat Poutine(Montreal food I hate)

And then there's going out and worrying if he picks somewhere a little more expensive and then if I pay for myself will it be too much or will I seem like a cheapskate because all I order is a bowl of soup?

What the heck are you talking about? Well, move to USA. Here it seems the women claim to be feminists and expect men still pay for them. That don't bother me because I pay but I don't date feminists(Paid for 3 cruises last year). But assuming in Canada , women pay for themselves, who cares what you order? I never heard of men caring if a women is a cheapskate , in fact I know quite a few that wish they were so they wouldn't waste money. I think guys might prefer if you order something light and cheap because then it shows you take care of your body. But I will chalk up your comments to cultural differences and perhaps age differences. Whole different world than I am used to.
I do agree babysitter can be a problem. That has always been my issue with women with children. However, I dated a girl yrs ago for a short period and offered to meet her son and take to circus. Not thrilled with hanging with kids but I like animals and truly wanted to go to the circus and it was less dorky to be seen with a kid! :P
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 114
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 8:10:32 AM
my issue with putting effort into a profile is that even though i am pretty clear about my goals in old- i get messages and respond, then realise by constant dodging of hurried claims of love, loyalty, and perusal of ltr(game bs) will i marry?, and seven messages iterating my profile, no date, phone call nor clarity ,on any other aspect of our character-so !? they failed to read with any comprehension my profile- i have be willing to get married sight unseen, b-4 i qualify for coffee??-the men who choose by picture only are probably not here-so this share is kinda worthless whining...
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 115
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 8:30:56 AM
Mr. Joe typed 1496 words and 7920 characters.
But I still don't think all women want taller men.
I also don't think there is someone for everyone.
I think everyone needs to reach the point in their
life that they accept how they look (unless they make
changes) they exude confidence and they learn to say
fark off if you don't like it.

I reached that point about 22 years ago and it was
better than any diet.
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 116
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 9:13:51 AM
"as for single mothers lacking education, that's BS"

>>>i wish it was uniformly, but alas, several groups think females in society getting off the education track towards high paying unemployment to go on the mommy track is a social issue:

https://www.eab.com/daily-briefing/2017/09/21/why-more-single-mothers-are-going-to-college-but-still-not-graduating

"Hawking has been complimented before, many times. More than most of us,since guys that complain or have trouble often need an ego boost or support, and men and women have empathy if the member is a regular contributor to the forum. But god help the guy wanting an ego boost who is a stranger."

>>>true, and Cowboy, Pigofyour dreams, and Outmind/Inner Gorilla also had a ton of flirts from women--but they didn't engage in sympathy behavior you described (no offense to Hawking). an attractive picture gets one's foot in the door, but its up to them where it goes. just like a good photo of delicious food in a restaurant ad :) i don't imagine many women click on a photo of an ogre just to see if he can write like a romance novelist. but there are some, yes.

" However, you gotta remember women IMHO, are less homogeneous as to what they attract to, especially physical. Studies have been done confirming that females are often all over the place"

>>>interestingly enough, a particular woman can even change her own mind, depending upon how strong the hormones release during his menstrual cycle. ovulation may get her to seek a studly alpha male, but a week later she seeks a nurturing male. google "birth control affects attraction" and you'll see studies that SOME women might find their partner less attractive based on the birth control they changed.

"NYC is very competitive"

>>.true, but it has the benefit of population density. the best luck i ever had with OLD was when i had a quarter million frequent flier miles and searched from east coast to the Mississippi River (i also lowered my standards, more on that four paragraphs down). the more there is to choose, the better odds of finding a sympathetic partner. "location" is truly an asset. another asset is attitude.

"but my cultural belief is "put up or shut up" which translates as if one gives advice as one has knowledge they better be able to back it up somehow. I can't change my belief system unfortunately. Remember, my career was basically enforcing my will on others by being able to "put up", otherwise I would be in danger if I didn't "shut up". Therefore, I am not going to change my opinion here and no one is going to be able to convince me otherwise since my experience and observation dictates my views and actions. Such as it is for us all."

>>>Badge bunnies aren't after a cop's pension, after all :) women aren't specifically looking for a jerk, but mealy mouth wimps need not apply. as for the strength of a long profile, i guess the new Tinder and bumble and other apps don't allow for long profiles, but for certain, a man should be interesting. AJ is right about profiles that are resumes or grocery lists. Generally, men list what is, women talk about what it feels like. ask a man how his day was, and he'll list the facts, ma'am.

"My experience is that women can actually form an attraction if they develop emotions based on reading a profile. Even a negative emotion can sometimes work, but a strong emotion it has to be."

>>>very true. but if a woman has a need to feel an emotion, she can be needy, and once she gets that emotion, run off to get the next guy to give it to her. for example, the first lady i met via OLD was a married woman who was no longer getting physical with her husband. i tried to be a nice guy and boost her up, but instead it was the same as a watering a plant. she attached herself to me, and i broke my rule about married women. once she realized she could attract a man, however, she was sure she could divorce her husband, got together with her son's softball coach, and i haven't heard from her since the one time we met. another lass i met online, was looking to be loved, and whenever i complimented her, she'd disappear to the next guy. i had to play cool and distant in order to keep hearing from her--not a game i like.

as for the importance of wealth, the real issue is financial stability. someone growing up in an upper-middle class home, frankly, defines financial stability just a tad different from a working class background. that means everyone has their own opinion on how much a guy should be spending on a date, what he makes, etc.

"First, this reminds me of your story about the hot gal at the bank -- and your no-regrets thoughts about not scheming a way to see if you could get a date out of her because she had kids and seemed to be in that dept, so to speak. I said this before on a recent post: You're just chicken + you're only looking for eHarmony-compatibility Out-Of-The-Gates. That's fine for a guy who has tons of dating options. Not at all an excuse for a guy who should get out there and get some female/dating experience again -- going out on a date or two or three does not = spending time with her kids."

>>>i will agree, i'm picky :) that's b/c as an only child who's been alone more than he's been in a relationship....i just don't need a woman. i want a woman. so if the "costs" are high, then i'm not interested in paying them. i agree, tho, going out on real dates is good experience--all skills get rusty. as for dating the single moms, yes, i've done it on weekends when the kids were off someplace else. it was nice to get laid irregularly.

as for whether the average fellow is INITIALLY attracted t0 face or figure...i'll suggest the male who wants to get laid, is interested in figure, and the one who is looking for a deeper relationship, will find a beautiful pair of eyes and cheekbones distract him from a figure that, shall we say, has its bikini days behind it. Again, i agree with what AJ said, there are places a lady can accessorize her look if that is her interest. the married lover i mentioned above, when she mailed me a photo (that's how long ago it was, before the age of digital cameras for less than $2K), it was clear she had accepted the role of mom. loose clothing that was easy to clean, little makeup, etc. i could see her physical beauty b/c i love women, but the average dude, nope, all he knows is a gal in tight clothes.

once flirting commenced, however, the lady stopped going about daily business as a mom, and instead thought of herself as a sexy individual, and emialed me one night that a clerk actually flirted with her. did she change her physical presentation by that time? i'm not sure, since she lived several states away, but i'm sure she carried herself differently.

ie, no longer just someone's mom.

(and before the ladies rip me a new one...yes...i do know there's more to a woman's desireability than what's on the outside. that's not what we've been debating here, we're talking about what initially gets a stranger to sit up and take notice of us. no one ever looks at a blah photo online, and then says, "well, let me read the profile anyway and see if i get my undies wet by the right words put together on the page").
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 117
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 1:07:27 PM

Mr. Joe typed 1496 words and 7920 characters.


Damnit! You saying I am 3rd place behind NG and Hawking? Tell me you didn't count. I have a jar of jelly beans you know.....


Badge bunnies aren't after a cop's pension, after all :)

Not at all! Badge bunnies are usually very young and don't think that far ahead.
true, but it has the benefit of population density. the best luck i ever had with OLD was when i had a quarter million frequent flier miles and searched from east coast to the Mississippi River (i also lowered my standards, more on that four paragraphs down). the more there is to choose, the better odds of finding a sympathetic partner. "location" is truly an asset.

True in absolute numbers. Obviously a 1% reply rate in a population of 8 million beats 50% reply rate in a population of 50k in number of interested females. However, many here can't deal with the number of rejections. The number of rejections are staggering since the ratio is even worst on a % basis. That forum member we used to have from NJ who wines that women reject him by not answering would have a stroke at the millions that potentially would ignore him.


true, and Cowboy, Pigofyour dreams, and Outmind/Inner Gorilla also had a ton of flirts from women--but they didn't engage in sympathy behavior you described (no offense to Hawking).


Is it about sympathy? Sometimes people just like to beat a horse to death. We ALL understand height makes things hard. Being poor makes things hard. Being the headless horseman makes things hard. Being the Thing from the Fantastic Four makes things hard. Having bad breath makes things hard. Being dead also makes things hard. None of that takes away from the fact that one has to give it their best effort, and then some, because you not going to make a hit if you don't swing.


as for whether the average fellow is INITIALLY attracted t0 face or figure...i'll suggest the male who wants to get laid, is interested in figure, and the one who is looking for a deeper relationship, will find a beautiful pair of eyes and cheekbones distract him from a figure that,


Yes and NO. If there of course needs to be a distraction perhaps. But there is nothing wrong at looking at a gals body. In fact when women whine "look at my eyes not my body", they are actually completely wrong to say that IMHO since they are basing that view on the fact that they tend to attract first and foremost to a mans face which includes eyes at the forefront. When they are looking into his eyes they are looking at what most appeals to their gender. Isn't it only fair and natural men look at appeals to their own gender in return? I think so. If we didn't do that both genders would probably be focused on lips moving since naturally eyes focus on movement!


and before the ladies rip me a new one...yes...i do know there's more to a woman's desirability than what's on the outside.

Now you lost me. This is POF , not the politically correct forum. The libs have their own avenues for political correctness. It belongs outside of dating, otherwise a few women here would need to date Hawking simply to demonstrate being dhort is ok, which it is. Believe it or not I actually met women in Europe that date out of guilt. Seriously, they will date someone because they felt the person was from a persecuted minority(certain Northern countries with blond features).
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 118
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 1:46:49 PM

But I still don't think all women want taller men.

Not 100%, no -- but that's more a distraction. We can Technically say ALL women don't want X-type of guy. Assuming the gal is not Super-super tall, nor the guy Way out of her league in looks or status/fame/known-big-$$:
- Virtually All women have a stronger desire a guy taller than she.
- A Vast Majority will at least lack sufficient attraction in a guy if he's not at least as tall as she; tallER to some degree if she's on the shorter side.
- A Vast Majority aim & see it ideal for the guy to be at least As tall as she in her heels if she wears heels regularly; more than merely ideal if she's not on the tall side
- How stringent this is depends on if it's relation to just a profile online, engaging as a stranger IRL, indirectly known thru friends, or within one's social circle.

I also don't think there is someone for everyone.

I agree.

I think everyone needs to reach the point in their life that they accept how they look (unless they make changes)

To an extent. But where there is room for change that really does need to be done + it's dragging them down, they shouldn't try and accept it; they should try and change it to be more in the ideal zone; then accept it, which will be more feasible and require less lying to oneself.

Seems you guys get the Turtle herding, raccoon herding jokes all at the same place. Is it where G men buy their sunglasses?

Don't follow ya on herding jokes -- I just made it up off the top of my head to "herd" gals away from the profile, while having fun with it. :)

My point is pictures alone usually won't be enough.

They certainly can be enough if you're in the Top 1%; although what one writes & selects in their profile could nix it. Looks carries By Far The Most online for guys to be picked, assuming nothing else in there sticks out as a shoo-away.

I actually get in NYC often messages from other parts of country and world. If you recall, a few minutes before my present GF contacted me, I got a message from a girl from Brazil. She must have told her friend living near myself to check me out.

It's because people travel to the few Metropolises (or Vegas) and check out online beforehand -- or look to move there. Or have friends there, in that case. So again, more activity in the big-dog places.

Yes denser cities has more opportunities. That is why Austin and Houston was best for me. NYC (and perhaps LA) is very different. The city beats to its own drum and it is extremely difficult on an individual basis because people are less relationship minded and more picky.

That may be true if you're in LTR-or-bust mode. I'm just talking about getting a date. It also depends on what tree you're barking up, too. I can see how it'd be easier for a middle-class guy to nab a real cutie in Houston vs NY City. But both are Flowing with people VS elsewhere. It's not like one's in danger of "running out of options" in Houston.

Also if girls get 200 messages per day that kind of means one has to be in the top .5% to get noticed.

But there are more women to spread it around -- and in big metropolises, there's a higher % of women open to utilizing it VS elsewhere. More modern-minded and in the business world VS heeding to the "online thing" than many mid-sized cities. When going to big places, I get way better luck than in Grand Rapids or Ft Wayne or Buffalo. I do think a key is in those massive places -- more focus on them when they're online. A good test is Tinder, too. Sure, more men to flood the women, but more women. Swipe right on all -- see who matches up.

A lot of what makes a woman gorgeous is the clothes, makeup, and hairstyle. All those take money, something I really can't afford to do.

As AdventureJoe pointed out -- no, it's not expensive. Girls can buy cheap -- like at Rue 21. I know you're in Canadia + being in a small town, but there is online, and there are ways to get around it on a trip to the states too. Point is: Good looking clothes to men do NOT have to be expensive, it's about selection in looking good. FFS, I'm a guy saying this -- a girl (and some do) should know this better than a guy. :) Wanting expensive clothing is about competing with other gals at the social places that aren't hole-in-the-walls. But you don't go out that much in general, so that shouldn't affect ya.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 119
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 3:09:49 PM

Don't follow ya on herding jokes -- I just made it up off the top of my head to "herd" gals away from the profile, while having fun with it. :)

Not accusing you of plagiarism lol. But there are many profiles with similar content.


They certainly can be enough if you're in the Top 1%; although what one writes & selects in their profile could nix it. Looks carries By Far The Most online for guys to be picked, assuming nothing else in there sticks out as a shoo-away.

Maybe. But based on members who actually posted pics of models in the top 1% and decent profiles that resulted in less than a 50% response rate, that shows the majority weren't being hooked by photo's alone. Besides my comment was in defense to the statement that it is easier for me or you since I know for a fact I am not in the top 1% of NYC men. I can't speak for you in Fort Wayne.


I do think a key is in those massive places -- more focus on them when they're online. A good test is Tinder, too. Sure, more men to flood the women, but more women. Swipe right on all -- see who matches up.

But there are more women to spread it around -- and in big metropolises, there's a higher % of women open to utilizing it VS elsewhere.

Two points about this to consider:
More to spread around to YES, but the guys using the same strategy of sending messages to every attractive girl means ALOT more men sending each women messages.
2. In large cities, there are other options and online dating isn't taken as seriously by many, especially the free ones.


A good test is Tinder, too. Sure, more men to flood the women, but more women. Swipe right on all -- see who matches up.

Actually, In NYC Tinder is too much work. I will explain. Basically guys have to delete and create a new account every 3-4 days to work it here. Reason is after a few days , NO ONE sees your profile since thousands of newer accounts have been made. It is true, unless something has changed. I 1st joined and had a dozen or so matches every day my first few days and then it went downhill until I opened a new account. It seems the only way a girl would see my profile is if I used my free one a day "super like" and even that was risky because if a girl got a few hundred super likes in one day she may never even get yours since as a free member(most are) she may never get to see it behind the other 200 super likes she got that day because she is hot. Remember most guys are swiping right also lol.
 Spectrallight
Joined: 9/14/2018
Msg: 120
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 3:48:50 PM

I don't have much optimism that there is a fish in the sea for me because as a poor, single mother, it puts me even lower on the desirablity scale.


Out in the real world, you have every chance but you do have to have a bit of a social life. My lad dated a girl(teenage sweetheart) that was one of 6 girls(she was the oldest). When the father met the Mother, she had 3 children from a previous relationship. He works, she works, they don't have a lot, but get my drift. You seem to think you're not attractive for some reason. You need to stop with the whole "I'm not as good as the other women mindset" and just be you. Do not compare.

On Pof you can't really expect men to look and think she has 3 kids, I'm up for that. IRL you meet someone and they float your boat. you like them then you find out about the children and it isn't as much of an issue.

My friend met his last partner on a running website, and that lasted 4 years. She had 3 kids then they had a little boy. Now they are seperated on reasonable terms. They even still work together at the same place. She is also a good friend now.

He had no kids when meeting her and he took all of those kids under his wing. He makes good money and all he did was plough it into the family. In fact, she would "moan" at him because he never bought much for himself.


As for single mothers usually being uneducated and having nothing to talk about, that's a load of b.s. I have two degrees and I love talking about history, politics, news etc. I also am a really big sportsfan. I'd love to have someone to talk about that stuff with. I'd like to talk about something outside my kids if I got the chance more.


Yeah, But you're lucky enough to understand an education is important. Not all women are as lucky to have something going on upstairs. Be it due to not so great childhoods, and oppurtunity or just plain f*cking thick.

I got talking to a woman that served me in a supermarket, and I come across her profile 2 days later, and I got a message instantly. We went to mobile quite quick as I knew she was legit person then it was like another person unleashed with text speak. She was gone within the hour. Had nothing to offer whatsoever.. The lights were out to be fair. I typ lyk dys rubbish. See my point.


The wealth thing does matter for women but in a different way than for men. A lot of what makes a woman gorgeous is the clothes, makeup, and hairstyle. All those take money, something I really can't afford to do.


Some lippy and do your eyelashes is all you really need day to day at most make up wise. Need red cheeks? Pinch them. Old trick my mum did in the 1950's ;) That was on nights out with the Teddy Boys as she had very little money being 1 of 12.

Go out one night if you can and watch all the blokes just stand there and stare and don't approach the women you think are so much better than you. A lot of these ladies don't feel brill as they wonder is their something wrong with me as they don't get approached. Many a time I've heard why is my friend single she is so pretty.

I like Women with less make up to be fair. I like character. Lately, I saw a girl with a forehead scar that made her more attractive to me. She has everything I'm looking for at the moment, but she smokes :(

FML lol
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
Msg: 121
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 4:43:28 PM
This thread has gone full blown Hawking-ian.

Browneyesboo wrote:
I didn't realize height was a problem until I came here.
Funny thing is, I didn’t really realize the importance of height either til I came here. Forces me to consider that in my prime dating years the wimminz I dated weren’t attracted to what I thought was my sparkling personality, but maybe I was just a tall, nameless, faceless drone for them to indulge their “tall guy” ya-ya’s. But…….at least it was fun!!

Shirely:
I guess everyone has the right to brag about their assets if they wish to
Well, if anyone – man or woman – has the goods to refer to one of their body parts as being “weaponized,”….um…they probaby do have that right. More power to them. The person, not the goods.

Dan:
BUT apparently lying about them is not O.K. - At least, a lie that can be proven wrong.
Unless the basis of the purported lie is displayed to the point of “wardrobe malfunction” right there on your PC screen .


NONE of that even involves the rejection that can STILL happen when you show up for a date, and the person across the table gets that, "Who farted?" look.
Someone posted awhile back that being able to fart in front of each other shows comfort with each other, thus isa good thing. So Dan, on your first date, are you farting to rush things? I would not recommend that.

NG wrotr:
That is comparing apples & oranges,

Then you have another factor -- firmness VS what the other poster pointed out, hanging-really-low when the bra is undone.
I agree because unlike height, ya can’t just evaluate these breast attributes “in the room.” Firmest breasts in the room? Lowest hanging breasts in the room? Doesn’t work, unless everyone's naked. Even then, some tactile investigation may be needed. Height is very evident from the get-go, by comparison. Maybe women do some investigation on whether a particular guy is wearing boots with heels, and mentally subtract that from the dude’s height, but that investigation is clearly easier than what a man can pursue with breast characteristics, when breasts are artificially staged with infrastructure that's hidden by clothing.

I think it’s fair, though for men to want measurements, though, if they want. And who knows, if a guy has the game to ask about that in a fun and playful manner, it could work as a “differentiation factor. Some women like guys who can be outrageously irreverent. But it opens a pandora’s box that women may feel emboldened to request schlong stats. So it’s a double edged, um, sword.
 SS4544Spd
Joined: 8/31/2016
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 5:14:05 PM
Hawking writes:
But again, let’s refresh our memories on why I tend to avoid women with children: I don’t like children.


GTO wrote:
i do get Hawking's point about single moms. I'm not a fan of children, for the simple fact they are the literal definition of childish behavior. if i'm going to put up with immaturity, self-focus, and childishness, then i'm doing it in the hope of good sex :) but what will talk to a single mom about in order to find things in common?
I think these stipulations are unreasonable, given your ages. I just don't think you can approach every woman - unless you have options - with a mindset that she needs to check every box. We’re not talking about marriage, we’re talking about dating and having some fun.

NG writes:

My inner thoughts upon reading it: "Dude, you're not arranged-marriage shopping! And fine if you're swamped with dates and you certainly can pick up on this proven to follow thru with high % and she wouldn't be worth date-juggling when you got some real cuties hankering for ya.
Totally agree. Some people find reasons to talk themselves out of doing anything. Cuz it’s easier.


July wrote:
As for single mothers usually being uneducated and having nothing to talk about, that's a load of b.s. I have two degrees and I love talking about history, politics, news etc.
I agree that the one-size-fits-all characterization of single moms isn’t fair. I’ve had plenty of good times with single moms who couldn’t quote Hemingway.

Joe wrote a series of “War and Peace” posts, and I skimmed through these posts, and I think I generally agree with his opinions (and NG’s) regarding getting dates, etc. Basically you need to stand out from the heard. It’s an advertisement. An ad for a Ferarri, or any other car, isn’t just a laundry list of attributes. There’s the emotional factor, showing the car racing along the roads, the driver swooshing around curves..ie, what’s possible with this car…what’s fun and exciting about it. It provokes interest and/or emotion. Something that stokes interest beyond a list of dry attributes (which are also important). Humor is critical, as is a bit of irreverence, at least in my view.

And I also agree that Hawking and GTO are too picky, considering their desire of women with no kids. That’s reasonable in your 20’s if you have no kids, but once you reach 30’s and above, it’s unreasonable in my view, even if you don’t have kids. With your stipulations, both of you have a universe of possibilities that can fit on the head of a pin. Once one reaches their 40’s …unfortunately your market value goes down (even below what you both maintain it was when you were young) so sometimes ya gotta open up the ol’ stipulations a bit and see if you can have some fun and see if anything develops from there.

I have a friend, single, never married, longest relationship 2 years…who has to be positively sure the woman is marriage material before he even will pursue her. That’s a loner’s mentality, sorry.

I have read both of y’all’s posts for awhile and know that you are both high caliber guys, but at some point you have to take a little risk and see what happens. Cuz it does NOT get any easier as you age.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 123
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 2/28/2019 5:55:16 PM
It was my intention to come back to this thread much sooner, but I’m losing my job of 20 years tomorrow and this week has been hell. Therefore, I won’t have anywhere near as much of a response as some might expect considering how much has been said since the last time I was able to post, and I’m just going to go ahead and warn everyone I may hiatus from POF for another long while either after this post or certainly after my last post tomorrow, so I’m not avoiding a debate or ghosting or lurking or whatever – I’ll just be literally not logging for some time due to circumstances beyond my control. I’ve posted only at work the past 6 years (not the reason I lost my job! Stupid downsizing) and considering I’ll be fulltime job hunting for a while, I don’t see the wisdom in starting posting from home or phone now.

*

Children: Again, surely no one thinks it’s a good idea for someone who doesn’t like kids to date someone with kids. That’s just a recipe for disaster. I mean, that’s how emotional abuse, neglect and even physical abuse happens. I’m certainly not saying I’d do that to anyone’s kids, but I find little children so frustrating and annoying, it’s just not worth the risk. But, yes, I am getting to the point where there are women close to my age who have grown children. At that point, it becomes about how much those children are still in her life and how much they dislike me dating their mother. I’m assuming. I have never dated a woman with children older than about 10 (the woman I was talking about my previous post was in her early 40s but had a 5-year-old for some reason). I have worked with a lot of teenagers and my best friend’s daughters are teenagers (well, one’s now in her 20s) and I get along great with most of them. So that’s a good sign. But I haven’t dated anyone with teenagers, so maybe that’s a completely different world from hanging out with them at work and intermittently with them with their parents. I do send messages to mothers of older children every now and then and again, I’m not automatically dismissing those who contact me. So we’ll see what happens.

July is obviously correct that some mothers would prefer to talk about anything other than their kids – but the one I was specifically referring to had a young child and it was her first. Comparatively, my best friend almost never brings up her teen daughters in a first conversation with someone, unless the other person brings up kids first. Just depends on what stage of motherhood said-mom is, I suppose. And I am most definitely not the one who said single mothers lack education. That is certainly nonsense.

“Although Bumble is a bit better, but IMO, it's due to the gals having to write first, which gives them a sense of investment (and they're not merely replying to a guy-initiated message to-be-nice).”

Bumble is definitely the site/app I’m least ghosted in, even less so than paid sites, and your theory as to why is probably 100% correct. Sure, I might have to swipe right hundreds of times before a woman messages me, but I still find it by far the least frustrating OLD out there. I’ve had more dialogues with women on Bumble in one year than Tinder in 6 years, and Tinder has become a complete mess lately. I’ve had 12 years of extreme frustration on POF, and to be honest maybe it’s only the forums at this point that leads to me having any POF dating site activity. Match has become just about as frustrating, mostly because thanks to all those filters and my age, there are almost no women I can contact anymore. And I’ve been on that site 20 years and met ONE woman. However, that woman was awesome and should have been my wife and I blew it, so there’s that.

Location: Well, thanks to my job loss, maybe I now can move to an area where women care less about men’s height and ethnicity and there are more childless older women! BUT… I ain’t moving north. I am literally allergic to cold weather. So that doesn’t leave me with a lot of options.

“But I still don't think all women want taller men.”

If you had said “TALL” men, I would agree with you. But “TALLER”... even in most of these threads, you have quite a few women who say “I don’t care how tall a guy is… as long as he’s taller than me.” With women being on average 6 inches shorter than men, most women of average or below average height aren’t put into very many situations in which they have to seriously consider dating a man shorter than them. I am actually the height of the average American woman. Half of all women are taller than me, though because most women I meet are in heels (nearly all of the women I work with at what’s soon to be my former job wear heels and there are few days in which I’m not the shortest PERSON in the building), it seems like the vast majority of women are taller than me, and they probably feel the same way (that is, that I’m even shorter than I am). So in real life situations, I’m usually fighting an uphill battle of perception from the beginning, even if perception is somewhat false.

“I also don't think there is someone for everyone.”

I actually disagree with that. I don’t think there’s a fairy tale or godsent person for everyone, but out of 7 billion people, there are probably dozens if not hundreds or thousands of people for everyone from a mutual attraction perspective. It’s FINDING and MEETING them that’s the problem. Which is the one thing that OLD excels at in comparison to real life. If I had to rely on the women I’ve met in real life, I would have dated 4 women (none of whom I should have dated but that’s besides the point). Instead, thanks to OLD, I’ve met a couple dozen, nearly all of whom I almost certainly never would have met in real life – some of them lived more than an hour away in places I never have any reason or time to visit. The only reason I’ve ever been to Lakeland and New Port Richey in my entire life was to meet women from OLD. Of course, OLD giveth and taketh for someone like me: it’s easier to find women who will date short men on OLD just because of the far wider net, but it is much more difficult to convince women to date a short man on OLD than in real life, because of the high level of superior competition and the inability to use one’s charms, voice, scent, etc.

Anyway, I’ve never pretended that I don’t have other negative characteristics besides my height that hinder my ability to get dates, nor have I pretended that there aren’t a FEW women willing to date me that I don’t want to date for various reasons (usually lack of attraction). I suppose if I truly was the type of guy that could not live without being romantically involved with a woman, I would either have been dead a long time ago or I would be trying to make it work (again) with a woman I don’t find attractive. So… maybe I am not worth worrying about.

Well, until I became unemployed for the first time in my adult life. That’s probably not going to help me psychologically, much less help me get dates – at least I always had being gainfully employed going for me, which a bunch of tall guys couldn’t say! Oh, well.
 MeramecRiverRat
Joined: 10/12/2017
Msg: 124
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 3/1/2019 6:55:25 AM
First about height, shorter people are a natural result of evolution where food is scarce. Humans are shorter on islands, as shown by people from the following places being significantly shorter: Ireland, Sicily, Japan, and especially the Philippines. Might be one reason American men do so well with Filipinas: he's much taller (the other reason is she marries him for citizenship, also there's the impression America is paved with gold with money growing on trees).

Hawking seems especially compatible with a Japanese lady because many Japanese ladies are childfree (the other places I mentioned with short women are full of Catholics who breed big families). Whenever people give ideas for gals who might be a good match for Hawking, his answers rationalize why they wouldn't be good.

As climate change results in increased drought, and the insects necessary for crop production go extinct or shrink in numbers, famine will favor smaller people / people who can survive on less food. Big / tall people and people with big appetites will drop out as they did on those islands.



Bumble is definitely the site/app I’m least ghosted in, even less so than paid sites, and your theory as to why is probably 100% correct. Sure, I might have to swipe right hundreds of times before a woman messages me, but I still find it by far the least frustrating OLD out there. I’ve had more dialogues with women on Bumble in one year than Tinder in 6 years, and Tinder has become a complete mess lately. I’ve had 12 years of extreme frustration on POF,


Bumble has the match queue for free. I believe Tinder makes you pay to see who already likes you. Bumble blurs the people who already swiped yes, but you have a good idea who they might be. This makes matches more likely than on the free version of Tinder. I match with gals on Tinder but they typically don't reply to the message I send them (have speculated my messages on Tinder are too polite compared to the possible bold horny messages that other guys on Tinder send), and gals on Tinder tend not to write first.

Adventure Joe's remark about Tinder not working in NYC suggests Tinder places new users first as a stack. It does seem to be a stack because (in my medium sized area where the number of users isn't overwhelming) I sometimes swipe a few and then get back to someone I saw last time I was there but didn't make a decision.

A late clarification about another thread: a while back there were posts about people from big cities being more socially experienced. I actually agree about people from inner cities being able to get more social experience. My contrarian posts were about a subset of urban residents: the sheltered gentrified people who stick to a limited routine at coffee shops as in 90s sitcoms.

Back to Bumble: that site and OKC, in my region there are more "upscale" women from more affluent gentrified urban neighborhoods. These women tend to write boring messages and they suggest meeting at the Starbucks in their rich neighborhood. The gals on POF and Tinder from working class urban neighborhoods are more interesting to me and they seem socially smarter than the gentrified latte sippers. Of course "your mileage may vary", and I'm definitely a reverse snob who prefers that gals who appreciate a dude who wears flannel and has real facial hair (not a hipster beard). If the male users on Bumble are the equivalent (hipster, metrosexual, gentrified), I might stand out as more masculine on Bumble and my messages are more bold than theirs. As opposed to POF where I have countless "clones" or "twins" and am just one of the guys, or Tinder where I'm the "nice guy" compared to the aggressive sex maniacs. Hawking is probably more masculine on Bumble than on other sites relative to other guys.

One of my recent Bumble matches actually lives in what could be called "the hood", a small house in a lower middle class street an an area with a significant black population, and another Bumble match lives way out in the boonies (something more typical of POF or Tinder), so not everyone fits a site's trend. Most of the girls I date could be called hybrids, for example she might be a redneck nerd.

AdventureJoe said something about how someone from NYC would do in flyover country and vice versa. Something about how he could stand on a corner in Manhattan and see more appealing women in an hour than a year in the flyover spot? Obviously the mid American visiting NYC would do better because he would see so many women worth approaching (might get rejected/ignored by a high percentage, but could eventually find a willing one), while the Manhattanite wouldn't try because he wouldn't see anyone he liked.

Don't get me started about Mustang's post about conversations with college grads.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 125
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Women always wanting men quite taller than them
Posted: 3/1/2019 9:08:25 AM
Interesting points about island cultures and why some men evolved to be shorter. It brings to mind why for some women getting really tall men isn't a priority while for others it is. Women who grow up with male role models who are tall will often seek out tall men subconsciously but for women whose male role models (ie. fathers, uncles, teachers, etc) were shorter, tall men aren't necessarily required. There isn't a single man on both sides of my family who are under 6'1. So for me, tall men are the standard I look to. My mother's side of the family is Polish/Ukrainian/German and my dad's side is German/Polish but when I looked up my ancestor's home villages on a map I realized all came from only a 50 mile radius around the Carpathian mountains so I can see that my ancestors were probably all mountain people. I think thats also why a lot of the women are bigger, they needed the extra body weight to get them through those cold mountain winters. So really I'm battling against evolution.
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