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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?      Home login  
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 N2U18
Joined: 3/16/2018
Msg: 226
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?Page 10 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
Fairly recently, I unwillingly participated in a bizarre occurrence at a grocery market down the street from my house. My groceries were bagged, the bagger offered assistance to my car, but I politely declined. She insisted on helping and for the second time I replied, No Thank You! She wouldn’t take NO for an answer, so I reminded her that No Means No (insert smile on face with expression questioning her sanity).

As I surveyed my surroundings, I quickly pondered the possibility that she didn’t understand that the Customer is always right, if the local community college had an introductory business course, could I be the millionth customer and Big Winner, but I noticed an excessive number of employees and determined management implemented a business strategy that focused on service. To deescalate this confusing situation, I calculated that the short walk to my vehicle, with her assistance, would be acceptable instead of doing this all over again at another grocery market and making a scene.

WE exit the grocery market, vehicle in sight, and she hits me with a comment about it being ok to let a Woman help a Man with his groceries. My initial thought of Batshit Crazy was correct but could I avoid the sermon about Misogyny, Bigotry, Racism, and Her Instilled Hatred of Heterosexual White Men.

The intellectual prowess I witnessed that day was so overwhelming that driblets of tears almost materialized on my cheeks. I was in the presence of an SJW that could no longer curb her jubilation and obsession to proselytize her ism. She possessed a completely programmed interpretation of the situation! I mentioned DIY Culture and that I had been doin’ it myself since I was a kid. It’s my standard line when a liberal female splashes interest in my direction but with a few modifications. I find them disconcerting and hypocritical to a level that is socially criminal and obscene. From a distance the thought is foul, but it really comes down to the individual and morality.

I drove away from that Social Justice Zomb and haven’t been back. Why did this exchange have to be so difficult? The first “No Thank You” should have been sufficient.

I Can’t Go for That!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATRsYfiVUy8
 rednwhiterider
Joined: 6/23/2018
Msg: 227
Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/2/2019 10:22:10 PM
next they will just call the cops on you.

sad but true.
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 228
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/3/2019 9:35:40 AM
"I can honestly say, not one atheist, agnostic or even a buddhist has ever knocked on my door or handed me a piece of potential rubbish on the streets. "

>>>some of us can remember the good ol' days of saffron-robed Hare Krishnas at the airport :)

"because Christians resent the re-purposing of THEIR religious holiday"

>>>not to question someone's faith, but...the roman census wasn't held in winter. it was held in september or october after the crops were in and the roads were sill traversable. if you look up "roman census Jesus", you'll find a lot of debate about how the gospels account of the nativity scene doesn't match Roman records. but keep in mind, each gospel was meant to sell Christianity to a different audience. Matthew, for example, was writing to Jews, so there's a lot of reference to Old Testament predictions of the Messiah.
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 229
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/3/2019 10:36:35 AM

"because Christians resent the re-purposing of THEIR religious holiday"


Christmas is a celebration of Christ's birth. I don't believe that it has ever been said that he was actually born on that day.

Interesting to note that about the Roman census. Having looked it up, it seems that the official record of the census is from the Bible which leads to the next question. How do those who do not believe in the Bible's entirety pick and choose what parts of it to believe?

I also find it amazing that the great historians still mark world events by BC and AD. That has got to say something!

Do non-religious people believe in Jesus then, but just not as a God and that is why they reject the concept of Salvation?

Honest questions. Would love to hear some thoughts.
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 230
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/3/2019 1:32:12 PM

Do non-religious people believe in Jesus, but just not as a God ?



^^^ My view of Jesus ( & to be truthful, I wish I / we knew MORE about him ) is that he loved ALL people with such a "passion" that, it was almost unheard of, even in those times. In addition, if given a modern day lie detector test and was asked ~ are you God or Gods son, he would pass it EVERTIME ! I believe we would not , and the world would not > be even close to recognizable today - if HE had not existed. I know many will dispute this fact, they know of not what they speak > is my "opinion". Sort of hard to argue with an opinion ( maybe not ) isn't it ? col @ & with Surely !

... heart / Jesus / sun ...
 backcreek7
Joined: 12/2/2014
Msg: 231
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/3/2019 2:14:27 PM
.
.
... Let us just say, for speculations point ~ that Jesus was " just a man " . Also, let us just say that Jesus himself was not aware of this fact, for whatever reason he TOTALLY believed he was chosen by God, to provide salvation for those that believe. For ANY human being to choose to be crucified ( which is quite obvious he did, in my op ) says something all on its own. So if we choose to think of him as a normal man > one who purposely angers the Romans to the point of punishing him by crucifixion? What kind of man is this?

... In other words, he chose to suffer one of the most hideous tortures, so all mankind who wish ~ may become better people by following / believing in the Christian Religion. Oh yes, I hear you > Christianity has killed and destroyed millions ( sorry K, no reference intended ) To this I would reply > it is not Jesus or his true message that has killed and destroyed, it is the inherent evil of mankind that has. Believe me, we will always find others to blame for whatever occurs, it is in our very nature to denounce, blame and ridicule. If it wasn't Jesus who we would blame ? The list is long and it never ends, certainly it seems - we could and do find a scapegoat for every nasty , evil, degenerate & horrible thing that man has had his hands in. I believe it is time now, for all and anyone who ridicules Jesus ( or the belief of his message) to lay off him personally & to realize it is WE who are the problem, not HE ...

^^^ Thank you for listening & God Bless ( & ps, I do believe in God, so > a God Bless is totally appropriate in my opinion ( and that is all that matters, col ) ........ backcreek ........
 Clytemnestra
Joined: 6/6/2018
Msg: 232
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/3/2019 4:39:27 PM
msg#226<<<
Nice Story Bro

Take care.
The Girlz are out to get ya~
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 233
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/3/2019 4:54:33 PM
OP... If you think about it.... POF is but a medium. a platform, a conduit of communication. We are all talking here and now. That in itself would be considered a miracle to biblical times people. And here we are now analyzing what folks eons ago wrote down.

I mean, We are all talking and I also hope listening. It happens a lot here and knowing this is simply a way to communicate ,,, I say make the best use of it WE can. This could be our blessing? It's ours to decide.

Talk, listen, and respect each other. No matter how bat shit crazy we all think the world in general is [not you or me of course] Acknowledge the crazy and nurture the logic and common sense. And try to be nice....I know it's hard sometimes.
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 234
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/3/2019 5:10:53 PM

The intellectual prowess I witnessed that day was so overwhelming that driblets of tears almost materialized on my cheeks. I was in the presence of an SJW that could no longer curb her jubilation and obsession to proselytize her ism. She possessed a completely programmed interpretation of the situation! I mentioned DIY Culture and that I had been doin’ it myself since I was a kid. It’s my standard line when a liberal female splashes interest in my direction but with a few modifications. I find them disconcerting and hypocritical to a level that is socially criminal and obscene. From a distance the thought is foul, but it really comes down to the individual and morality.
this is where you took an employee doing their job-apparently a required task, when maybe was attempting to assuage the dis- comfort and confusion with some friendly banter with a customer, but we know a bagger must just be a proselytizing isms and sjw, not cheerfully doing their job. what do they make per hour, minimum wage? lots of things we all do alone. cripe my sibling will pick up dishwashers, washing machines, dryers: when offered help , refuses , asking the store associate, "You gonna come home with me and help me unload them?" they all have a good laugh.
all or most religious holidays are more about the seasons the fall summer winter spring equinox and solstice and then of course the harvest. blending of pagan or earth religions with god based religions,
 Million_Reasons
Joined: 10/23/2018
Msg: 235
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/3/2019 5:11:23 PM
^^Nice post, Mr. Doremi. :)


Msg: 232

Ms. Clytemnestra....

"msg#226<<<
Nice Story Bro

Take care.
The Girlz are out to get ya~"


What Girlz? Did they get Red, too? :/



Msg: 234

Ms. Inicia...

"this is where you took an employee doing their job-apparently a required task, when maybe was attempting to assuage the dis- comfort and confusion with some friendly banter with a customer, but we know a bagger must just be a proselytizing isms and sjw, not cheerfully doing their job. what do they make per hour, minimum wage?"


Disagree with this assessment. Bottom line....it is poor customer service to insist on walking a customer to the car. I shop at Publx where it is always asked as part of their policy but never insisted upon. Now....they (Publix) are a company that goes out of their way to hire employees with varying disabilities....so sometimes I run across an "overly eager" employee wanting to perform their duties or get into "interesting" conversations. It is actually the reason I shop there. But most often their unique abilities are obvious.
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 236
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/3/2019 6:02:59 PM
^cool million😎

SIs, I am not religious, i am spiritual, i have faith and belief in JC. i think it depends on the person, most have at least some knowledge of Jesus.one of my parents :religious (UU fellowship), atheist, felt we waste precious energy, intelligence, time, growth placing any focus on the JC myth aspects, the only value was the message, as well as the messages of many other religion's beneficial, life philosophies.
By the way sis Hate to share this with you too , buy many people that are not religious are offended by god bless . do whatever you need do, however, knowing things bring offense: saying i feel blessed by god for me , is one thing?? it is hard to demonstrate the issue, for the most part atheist often cut the religious folk a lot of leeway , and slack. often graciously ignoring as well as accepting these religious salutations. yet the hyper religious, often can not hear beyond their own offense, such as being upset about" happy holidays" being shared, during the winter solstice seasons, there are at least 14 celebrated. or using vulgarity or profanity. When When Jesus was alive I'm certain he celebrated the winter solstice holidays with The myriad of cultures that he wandered, during his Rabbinical teachings , probably not just Hanukkah(sp, sic) .
 N2U18
Joined: 3/16/2018
Msg: 237
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/3/2019 7:37:20 PM

this is where you took an employee doing their job-apparently a required task, when maybe was attempting to assuage the dis- comfort and confusion with some friendly banter with a customer, but we know a bagger must just be a proselytizing isms and sjw, not cheerfully doing their job. what do they make per hour, minimum wage? lots of things we all do alone. cripe my sibling will pick up dishwashers, washing machines, dryers: when offered help , refuses , asking the store associate, "You gonna come home with me and help me unload them?" they all have a good laugh.
all or most religious holidays are more about the seasons the fall summer winter spring equinox and solstice and then of course the harvest. blending of pagan or earth religions with god based religions,

The story wasn’t about ME, but it was about US. I know the woman; we did banter all the way to my car and it’s pretty much weekly. I framed the story the way I did because of the conversation in this thread, others, and society at large. There were several messages I wanted to convey. We sneer and glare at the other, hyper religious, hyper SJWs, and everyone in the middle. Often quite offensive and unknowing (not directed at you) I would agree. That was one of the messages I wished to convey incorporating varying perspectives.
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 238
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/3/2019 8:31:36 PM
BC7
Message #230 & 231
Awesome message. I had a fellow message me who had obviously not ready my profile. As usual my response was "Thank you for your message but you are non-religious and live too far away. Good luck". Well I guess he read my profile then and messaged a request to ask a question. I replied, "Sure. Well, wouldn't you know that he asked why God allowed the killing of innocent babies? I said that man with freedom of choice did these things. Next he asks how the baby could have sinned at 6 months old? I replied that we were all born sinners and that I didn't have all the answers. Anyway, I didn't block him because it seemed that he genuinely wanted to know. But....your post, in a nut shell.

Doremi
Message #233

I mean, We are all talking and I also hope listening. It happens a lot here and knowing this is simply a way to communicate ,,, I say make the best use of it WE can. This could be our blessing? It's ours to decide.

Love this!

Inicia
Message #236
I'm not upset about the "happy holiday" issue. Just responding to posters who don't understand why some Christians might be.
Regarding your thoughts about seeming overly pious by using "God Bless" or "God loves you", etc. I haven't quite figured that out yet, but it annoys me when strangers refer to me as "Dear" or "Honey" but guess what? I roll with it. No big deal. That is part of who they are and I'm thinking that I should just be who I am.

I am not religious, i am spiritual, i have faith and belief in JC.

Not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you religious or spiritual or a combination of both?

N2U
Message #237

The story wasn’t about ME, but it was about US. I know the woman; we did banter all the way to my car and it’s pretty much weekly. I framed the story the way I did because of the conversation in this thread, others, and society at large. There were several messages I wanted to convey. We sneer and glare at the other, hyper religious, hyper SJWs, and everyone in the middle. Often quite offensive and unknowing (not directed at you) I would agree. That was one of the messages I wished to convey incorporating varying perspectives.

I'm sorry but the only message I got from your first post (#226) was that you really dislike active feminists or SJW as you call them. You came across as extremely intolerant but I don't think she should have been so pushy. A 2nd "No thank you" should have been more than enough but....has the Manager given those instructions? Is there this big new focus on customer service? Does it make her look bad if you leave without assistance? Did she just want to get out for some air and maybe even sneak a smoke or use her phone? Did she just want to talk to you because she likes you? Maybe more than likes you? We just don't know.

DAY 43!!!
 N2U18
Joined: 3/16/2018
Msg: 239
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 12:05:59 AM
Shirley
Message #238

I'm sorry but the only message I got from your first post (#226) was that you really dislike active feminists or SJW as you call them. You came across as extremely intolerant but I don't think she should have been so pushy. A 2nd "No thank you" should have been more than enough but....has the Manager given those instructions? Is there this big new focus on customer service? Does it make her look bad if you leave without assistance? Did she just want to get out for some air and maybe even sneak a smoke or use her phone? Did she just want to talk to you because she likes you? Maybe more than likes you? We just don't know.

1) The story in Message #237 is true but not in the way that I described it. I purposely tweaked the story with the thought of providing a different perspective from the other side and vice versa. There was no conflict with the woman, she’s pretty sarcastic, and it was quite the playful conversation. Management did require the baggers to assist customers. Me saying “No Means No”, with a sarcastic look, was a launchpad for her witty and humorous jabs.

2) A Social Justice Warrior is equivalent to A Warrior for Christ. SJW originated as something positive but with the culture war it has become a pejorative similar to a Bible Thumper.

3) I don’t believe in focusing on group identity, so it’s not that I necessary dislike feminist. I’m Gen X and the values and culture taught by my parents, humanist, are much different than the culture we have today which does focus on physical characteristics. If we’re focusing on the past and differences, how can we expect to move forward with a global society and citizens? The culture of my youth seemed to be working and today we’re segregating to our different tribes. Disappointing but quite logical and I wouldn’t expect anything different!

4) I came across as intolerant because I wanted to highlight intolerance on both sides. Each side can be just as intolerant and offensive as the other and still be completely oblivious to it. One side will preach Christianity and the other Social Justice and as annoying as each can be, their hearts are in a good place. It’s when we become insistent that our ideology is correct and increasingly push it upon others that disagree. It creates a hostile environment and people stop talking. We don’t talk, we don’t understand the others perspective, we rely on stereotypes, and it becomes easier to avoid and remain in a comfortable bubble. So, let us not be pushy.

5) Off topic is a rough neighborhood and we all have our unique ways of communicating. It’s political, we fight and say nasty things, quite harsh, but I pretty much take things in jest. Sometimes I decide to make a point about something, other moments it’s haymakers, and other moments it’s a theme haymaker combo.

6) It’s 2AM and I desperately need sleep
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 240
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 7:43:28 AM
Sis msg #238. just spiritual, that is all. then i offered you whom i choose as my spiritual guru lol. not in existence so it is just me with my perspective., personal. Sis the happy holiday was not about you personally, it was about general public outrage, in many, religious christian communities of their umbrage and deliberate offense expressed with a defiant "merry x_mas", missing the whole point of the christian celebration: jc's birth and inclusive nature as a gift to humanity . and another religious offense is often found when people utilize g_d'd name in vain or other vulgar words-some not all, but some; religious stop hearing the other human, and unstead (inconsistent with christian spirit) shut them down, as "vulgarLy" low life forms BTw JC, Gandhi, Mandela, mother T, joan, both m luther's, the abrahams, m x, s anthony, rosa, tubbs, etc, etc original sjw zombs. lol
 pinesta
Joined: 4/1/2019
Msg: 241
Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 7:59:49 AM
Shirley don't worry about me, I'm still here. I am not a sock puppet because I only use one profile at a time.

In answer to your question I never worry about salvation because in my world there is no such thing as sin. It is a much easier and forgiving world than yours.

Pof is now requiring phone verification by code. So I had to figure out how to get around their new system. Didn't take me long.

Still here. Just sayin. I see little red is gone. So sad. No it wasn't me.
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 242
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 8:58:37 AM
^^^^^
Well, now that you're back, maybe you can keep things objective and respectful and stick around for a while?

My world is not always easy but very forgiving. I just need to ask for it. Sin includes all of the things that are considered wrong by the population and other practices that are accepted by many that are against God's teachings are not things I'm inclined to do anyway. The word sin originated from early Bible days and included any act against God or his divine teachings. The word sin is also used to identify reprehensible acts against the law of the state and humanity. Surely, you recognize the difference between right and wrong and for which you can be judged and that there are generally consequences? What is the difference? I do my best to keep God's word and the people's laws which are the same except that my faith secures my Salvation.

Inicia....Spirituality is a lovely concept with Karma being a key factor. Not so different than religion except that a Christian's final reward is Salvation. Curious. What will happen to your soul?

DAY 44!
 pinesta
Joined: 4/1/2019
Msg: 243
Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 1:39:48 PM
Huge difference. The consequences for a criminal act are normally proportional to the crime and never for infinity. Nor are you punished for thought crimes or required to worship an invisible man who does not show himself. Moral wrongs are not punished criminally at all.
 Noftheborder
Joined: 10/4/2018
Msg: 244
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 2:01:01 PM

Moral wrongs are not punished criminally at all.

Does that not depend on the morality of the times/locations? For instance, it was considered morally wrong to be a witch and there were various judgments laid depending on the nature of the moral crime of witchery. Pedophilia is morally wrong and is criminally punishable but in certain cultures and at certain times it was the norm. Likewise with prostitution, etc. In some countries it's acceptable to stone to death for the moral "crime" of adultery.
 Seamist474
Joined: 6/24/2018
Msg: 245
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 3:40:45 PM

As usual my response was "Thank you for your message but you are non-religious and live too far away. Good luck".


You answered your own question "Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?"

My answer is no, because I'm an atheist I don't want a bible thumper. Your answer is no, because you want a believer.


Well I guess he read my profile then and messaged a request to ask a question. I replied, "Sure. Well, wouldn't you know that he asked why God allowed the killing of innocent babies? I said that man with freedom of choice did these things. Next he asks how the baby could have sinned at 6 months old? I replied that we were all born sinners and that I didn't have all the answers.


I find it sad that people think "we are all born sinners" - only some christians believe that. Those that are even remotely intelligent probably wouldn't. My beautiful grandaughter was not born a sinner nor were my children or anyone else's children.

And the man had a valid question and its one I've always asked - if its somehow god's work that "saves" people - why do you not blame god when a baby dies of cancer or children drown in a hurricane or children die in a house fire? Apparently god does some real nasty shit to people - kills kids.
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 246
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 4:03:04 PM
yes karma is a little different as a spiritual choice, yet kinda the same premise, existence r-occurs as your punishment until your learning life right- takes you to nirvana, christ didn't get to come back round cept in spirit
The natural cycle of life, Regardless of how long that existence is Does result in death . Was the creation of man Intended to prevent death and suffering? No .As death occurred with other creatures-why would humans, choosing physical death in pursuit of knowledge, be a surprise to an omniscient being? In creation before we human being Understood good and evil God determined All was good Regardless Of the natural existence cycle.
We are the ones that find such Innocent death Upsetting not God . God is not corrupt. There is not 1 separate place of God and one place without God-embracing a g_d means the divine is all of this process of life .
Many religions/spiritual doctrine, including karma, have the premise of sin in humans at birth.
However, the only sin is our misunderstanding of the whole picture : In realizing yes, that which we deem evil is not separate.Sin means separation, we human's deemed our own naked flesh shamefully, hiding our "evil" from The divine , wherein Animal skins Were Our offering for clothing. we determined we were evil not g-d. homey don't play that game. So now we are relegated to killing animals and separating our self above these natural un -corrupt beings, who give no thought to evil. Just live, no concept of the tic toc, or evolution, beginning or endings lol. In order to clothe what we found "evil" in our self; nakedness, separating us from the non-corrupt divine creatures. we carry this into communication with each other, god forbid we get real, reveal our naked soul.
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 247
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 4:44:01 PM
not sure What relation karma has as exclusively holding spirituality? can we say :The holy spirit? Is In order lol In the New Testament The word for sin is derived from the roof word yafu (yapha), Which Means to shine be like light, shew self , self cause to shine forth. meaning that missing or erring was indeed separation from divine mark not "sharing the prize"
 FFS38
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 248
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 4:54:40 PM

I find it sad that people think "we are all born sinners"


I believe the term is" born into sin"....which may have a slightly different meaning to your perception of what it means.


My beautiful grandaughter was not born a sinner nor were my children or anyone else's children.


Yes but they don't deny their father, just as you shouldn't.


why do you not blame god when a baby dies of cancer or children drown in a hurricane or children die in a house fire? Apparently god does some real nasty shit to people - kills kids.


You have to accept that as mere mortals we cannot understand everything.
And isn't that part of life's journey, the eternal quest...trying to figure it all out.
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 249
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 5:01:58 PM
a baby denies nothing lol-why many find them precious, they cry, scream- shit and piss themselves in cultures that utilize diapers. they let you know if they are happy sad content frustrated guess what we do not even speak each others' language; probably cussing us up one side and down the other.
 Seamist474
Joined: 6/24/2018
Msg: 250
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/4/2019 5:38:05 PM

I believe the term is" born into sin"....which may have a slightly different meaning to your perception of what it means.


I quoted Shirley - what she stated was "we are all born sinners". And she's not the only one I've heard say that. My perception is fine, thank you.


Yes but they don't deny their father, just as you shouldn't.


She has a father. I have a father, his name is Peter. I have mother too, her name was Mary. I don't deny my father or mother - Peter and Mary are my parents.


You have to accept that as mere mortals we cannot understand everything.
And isn't that part of life's journey, the eternal quest...trying to figure it all out.


I do accept that were are just people and there are things I don't understand or grasp, like quantum physics. And I do search out knowledge from all over the place, I'm quite curious and ask questions, read, look things up, watch documentaries, etc. My quest doesn't involve a god or gods. I don't need to know the answer to everything, just some things and I'm sure not going to find the answers to the information I seek in a bible or from any one of the hundreds and hundreds of god/goddesses others believe in.

I'm far beyond the answer being "its god's way". Fck that shit. If followers can't acknowledge that god causes the bad stuff as well as the good, IMHO, they have a problem.

The quest is real - I'm just not a sheep.

Its called faith - not fact. Believe all you want, have faith, believe in a god or 100 gods, I'm fine with that. Just remember its faith, not fact.
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