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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?      Home login  
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 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 376
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?Page 16 of 23    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23)
#357

So yes, POF and any belief can be combined. As sure as an egg and a sperm can combine regardless of beliefs to make me, or you.


#358
Interesting story about Søren Kierkegaard! Thank you.

#374

Come on people, this is a time for peace not war.
Think the two of you need to get laid.

LOL....That might surely help!!!! Out of the question for me however.

FYI.....Define ar·gue
/ˈärɡyo͞o/
verb
1.
give reasons or cite evidence in support of an idea, action, or theory, typically with the aim of persuading others to share one's view.


Or it could simply be you don't LIKE what I'm saying. Big difference.

Or it could simply be the WAY you say it. Big difference.
Why don't you explain why you feel so strongly about your own beliefs? Why is it that after 10 years of religious study you chose to be an Atheist? I'm genuinely interested and I think a lot of us may be if you can do so without insulting the beliefs of others. eg. I'm horrified at the Old Testament practice of sacrifice versus How can you believe in a blood thirsty God who demands the sacrificial blood? See? Pretty simple. State your own beliefs without attacking others. Once you do, IMO it is disrespectful and inflammatory.

I don't believe that I am insulting any one else or their personal beliefs while I share my journey, nor am I picking apart things said in order to make that person appear wrong or to convince them that I am right. As I said earlier, I refuse to debate God's existence, whether he is good and just or "excessively violent" and/or the Bible's truth or accuracy or even defend my faith. I will simply share my own story here with whomever would like to listen and perhaps also share. No one will ever win this as an argument while we live.

So Doremi and BC7 make very good points in that the sharing of ideas may bring us all closer together!

#375
Thank you Inicia. I will try to find that as I am genuinely interested. You are obviously intelligent beyond the norm. That is why it is confusing but I always find your paradigms and vocabulary amazing.
 purrfectionately
Joined: 4/6/2019
Msg: 377
Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/17/2019 6:20:07 PM
Quite a few irregular regulars posting here have exhibited anger and hostility toward their former Christian upbringings. They must have had very awful experiences to have such heated opinions that can be interpreted as rude.

When any member of the congregation I attend has decided to question their faith we pray for them, and give them their space. Pushing results in the wrong direction, so we don't force our beliefs upon others. However it is the non Christians community that seems to be forceful with their opinions about our spirituality. Refer to posts in this thread and the "Does God Exist", or "On the existence of God and other sundry matters" for further proof of my statement.
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 378
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/17/2019 6:45:59 PM
Perception is everything for Those who are non Christian or Christian, Or atheist, Spiritual or religious or faith, or of the scientific mindset what is courteous or arguing , Debate or discourse ,Honest or deceptive ,Hostile or aggressive, or passive and sweet, Or irritating or pleasant it depends on your standpoint . One cannot remove themselves from themselves In order to perceive from another's point of view .There is no such thing As Unbiased objective Observation .
Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/17/2019 7:16:52 PM

Think the two of you need to get laid.


Eh, I've got that taken care of, but it generally has no bearing on how I express myself.


State your own beliefs without attacking others.


I have not attacked a single individual on a personal level. Not one. Have I spoken vehemently against specific ideas? Absolutely, and I do so unapologetically. The notion that beliefs and ideas deserve respect is fundamentally wrong. Ideas stand or fall on their own merits and not all beliefs are respectable. It's absurd for anyone to think their beliefs should be exempt from scrutinty just because they harbor them.


Why is it that after 10 years of religious study you chose to be an Atheist? I'm genuinely interested and I think a lot of us may be if you can do so without insulting the beliefs of others. eg.


Quite simply, because I came to the rational conclusion there was insufficient evidence to support the assertion "God" exists. As I stated previously, I dismiss the God of the Bible for the very same reason you or any other Christians dismiss the other "Gods".

Whether anyone likes it or not, we are all in the same boat in this regard. We are ALL dismissing Gods, however, the difference is, I don't make an exception for the God of the Bible, yet for reasons I can't begin to fathom, Christians do. (yes, I'm aware people of other faiths make the aforementioned exception with their own Gods, as well, but the topic here is Christianty)
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 380
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/17/2019 9:42:36 PM
#377

Quite a few irregular regulars posting here have exhibited anger and hostility toward their former Christian upbringings. They must have had very awful experiences to have such heated opinions that can be interpreted as rude.

I've had some pretty awful experiences too and I wavered between anger and acceptance for a long time.


However it is the non Christians community that seems to be forceful with their opinions about our spirituality.

Yes and I wonder if it is because they feel threatened?

#378

There is no such thing As Unbiased objective Observation .

Hmmm.....I don't know about that. I think if one is aware of the potential bias then one is more careful to be objective?

#379

I have not attacked a single individual on a personal level. Not one.

Sorry. I will have to try to be more clear. I was talking about attack of other's beliefs, even offering an example.

I suppose if I were raised Jewish, that might be the religion I would follow but I was raised a Christian however, more and more Jews are recognizing the New Testament and accepting the gift of Salvation. Indeed, worshipers of other Gods are also converting to Christianity which is the largest religion in the world. In fact, Islam and Judaism like Christianity are all Abrahamic religions meaning that all believe in one God. I read that 2.7 million people and many of them Muslims, convert to Christianity each year, so in spite of the lack of sufficient evidence, it would appear that there must be something that draws these people to Christianity. As a Christian myself, I can feel the knowledge and certainty of the Truth.
 FFS38
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 381
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/17/2019 9:57:59 PM

Quite simply, because I came to the rational conclusion there was insufficient evidence to support the assertion "God" exists.


Remember absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
You do seem to hold a patronising view of anybody that has belief in God or the bible implying that you are somehow superior to them for that very reason (absence of evidence).
So far no life forms have been discovered beyond earth yet we still send probes over the spans of our lifetimes to search for evidence and nothing has been found. Does that mean we should stop?
Does that mean that scientists, like Christians, are deluded or foolish to hold onto that possibility?


As I stated previously, I dismiss the God of the Bible for the very same reason you or any other Christians dismiss the other "Gods".


I'm not sure where you're getting this idea about" "other God's", all I can think of is you imagine that the different religions all worship different God's, but the idea behind it is there is just one.
 Kokanee_Ice
Joined: 2/16/2019
Msg: 382
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 3:21:21 AM
Well I don’t understand why some Christians seem to think that they are justified by faith alone. I mean, according to bible even Satan and all his demons believe God exists. How can just believing be a virtue?
Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 7:18:31 AM


Remember absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


Nor is it confirmation something exists, but again, why do Christians have a standard where they insist on evidence to formulate belief with matters outside of religion, but drop it like a hot potato when it comes to their religion?


So far no life forms have been discovered beyond earth yet we still send probes over the spans of our lifetimes to search for evidence and nothing has been found. Does that mean we should stop?


Are you kidding me? How has anything I've said possibly indicate I'm of the mind that the pursuit for more answers should cease?? My position has been the exact opposite. That's my biggest problem with Christianity - thou shall believe or else. It demands belief backed by a threat, no matter how anyone tries to slice, dice, or sugar coat it.


I'm not sure where you're getting this idea about" "other God's", all I can think of is you imagine that the different religions all worship different God's, but the idea behind it is there is just one.


I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that Abrahamic Gods are the only purported Gods.


However it is the non Christians community that seems to be forceful with their opinions about our spirituality.


Oh, this is a laugh riot. Yeah, those door to door and street preaching Atheists are such a huge epidemic. Out of control, I tell you.
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 384
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 7:40:36 AM
#381
Very good comparison with the science aspect. We could add the Wright brothers and the ridicule they received for trying to fly. Thomas Edison and his light bulb. How many thought he was a 'whack' job? Computerized technology? Medical pioneers? DNA testing....What? The world is round? Fly to the moon? Uhhh....you're nuts! No evidence initially to support any of this yet we continue to expand our knowledge and test our theories often based on seemingly nothing.

#382

Well I don’t understand why some Christians seem to think that they are justified by faith alone. I mean, according to bible even Satan and all his demons believe God exists. How can just believing be a virtue?


The Bible tells us that we are justified by faith; that is our sins are forgiven because we believe. Just believing is not necessarily a virtue, but those who do believe can be considered virtuous as they generally hold themselves to a level of higher moral standards although not to say this is exclusive to Christians. There are many good people who are not Christians. Muslims in comparison believe in Jesus as the Messiah (messenger for God) just as the Bible describes him, but do not believe in the crucifixion or Salvation through him but through their good works.

Satan and his followers who were created before earth attempted to overthrow God and his angels because they wanted to be Gods too. God's army defeated them and so they were cast out of heaven to continue their evil works.
Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 7:57:05 AM

Very good comparison with the science aspect.


Here is the difference - scientists do not insist *anything* exists until they can reasonably conclude it does through verifiable/demonstrable evidence.
 FFS38
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 386
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 8:20:47 AM

scientists do not insist *anything* exists until they can reasonably conclude it does through verifiable/demonstrable evidence


What you mean like how life forms all came about purely by chance in some random chemical explosion rather than design?

Or perhaps how we, according to them, descended from apes and eventually evolved into the all dancing, all singing species we are now?

Science has it's uses but it is limited, it can't answer everything.
 Kokanee_Ice
Joined: 2/16/2019
Msg: 387
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 8:35:55 AM

There are many good people who are not Christians. Muslims in comparison believe in Jesus as the Messiah (messenger for God) just as the Bible describes him, but do not believe in the crucifixion or Salvation through him but through their good works.


Exactly. According to the bible you could be a good atheist, a good Muslim, a good Hindu, or a good Buddhist, but if you don’t accept Jesus as the son of God and your personal saviour, you’re going to hell. I have a hard time believing that.
 BaldwinMotionPhaseIII
Joined: 10/15/2018
Msg: 388
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 8:56:29 AM
"There will always be those who profess to be Christian but may truly not be"

>>.unfortunately, they tend to be the loudest. true Christians likely remember to "let not the left hand know what the right hand is doing". There are Evangelicals, as one example, who support politicians who cheat on their lives not once but thrice, and yet cast scorn upon others. Funny how Jesus used to preach about hypocrisy, and we still suffer from it today. thankfully, not all religious believers are abusers or draconian in their practices.

"It is unfortunate that some Christians are caught in the trap of explaining hell, when really I believe they should talk about the gift of Salvation."

>>>maybe b/c we are ego centric, and feel we deserve Salvation,but don't like to be punished for doing the fun things.

Love, like black holes, can be measured by its affects (and on the subject of love, i recommend a google search of Leo Buscaglia). its said a baby that does not recieve love, withers.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/born-love/201003/touching-empathy

but does that same baby fail to grow if it does not recieve religious teaching or baptism? we ma think it does, but can we prove that? we humans can seek out love in all the wrong ways ("he beats me b/c he care") and we can pursue religion for all the wrong reasons ("I'm better than you, and you are going to Hell"). but given a choice between the two...we may reach for love here first, and love in the afterlife second.

it was interesting to compare religion to science...since as we know...the Catholic church used to manipulate science ("the sun revolves around the Earth, Galileo").

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

throughout its history, science is constantly disproving old theories to find new ones. perhaps change inside the Church accomplishes the same (accepting homosexuals, etc).
Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 10:56:42 AM


Science has it's uses but it is limited, it can't answer everything.


Correct, but never has it adopted the "we don't know, therefore GOD" mindset, which is precisely why science has been able to provide the best possible explanations for things (though subject to change) through observation and experimentation, and not once through the course of human history has science concluded supernatural causes were the best explanation for anything.

Christianity is shackled by implementing the antithesis of scientific methodology. You've read the Bible and still find yourself skeptical, in need of more answers?? Well, tough shit, believe it anyway or else.

That's just not rational by any standard.
 purrfectionately
Joined: 4/6/2019
Msg: 390
Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 11:20:31 AM
"Here is the difference - scientists do not insist *anything* exists until they can reasonably conclude it does through verifiable/demonstrable evidence"

Then why do they believe in so many theories that have yet to be proven? SO many are NOT 100%, but an educated guess.
 2ufo
Joined: 12/25/2017
Msg: 391
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 2:23:34 PM
^^^
Because there is a preponderance of evidence.

Remember that science asks 'how' while religion asks 'why'.
 FFS38
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 392
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 2:52:15 PM

Because there is a preponderance of evidence.


To suggest.....
Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 3:56:28 PM

Then why do they believe in so many theories that have yet to be proven? SO many are NOT 100%, but an educated guess.


Read up on scientific theory. It's much more than I feel like typing.
 purrfectionately
Joined: 4/6/2019
Msg: 394
Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 4:33:42 PM
I have :) This article is a special gift for those whom wish to read it, or not...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2017/11/22/scientific-proof-is-a-myth/#546a7c772fb1
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 395
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/18/2019 6:59:11 PM
#394.... Read your article and from what I gathered it said science is imperfect. It says science is a myth because the methods used to gather, and measure information are imperfect. But mythical? I disagree.

Myth is IMHO only that which we fail to understand. Science is OUR method of making sense of OUR world. It is only as effective as OUR methods and means of information gathering and processing thereof [understanding].Yes, it is imperfect, as are we.

Fortunately, thanks to science OUR methods and technology are advancing, as is humanity. All we need do to see proof of this is to look to our past and see where we are now and where we came from.

We may not know everything and I'd say we never will. And, as long as ones faith doesn't hinder ones thirst for fact and logic we can indeed combine any view of who and what we are and also do it right here on good old POF.... Even 50 years ago what we are doing now was darn near... Mythical.... But today its reality and if you're reading this you're part of it.

I may not agree with everyone. I may think much of what others believe is kind of silly but I also realize we are all here in this world together and everyone is entitled to their own viewpoint. I try to keep an open mind regarding this as long as folks aren't fanatical in their fervor regarding their views.

In that respect I do think POF and/ or any world view can be combined.
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 396
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/19/2019 9:10:19 AM

John 3:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


Today Christians throughout the world give thanks in commemoration of God's ultimate sacrifice for us which is the very basis of Christianity. Unfortunately Jesus' crucifixion, arising and ascension into heaven cannot be proven but in light of discussion of scientific theories and substantiating facts and evidence, we are forgetting one important thing. In the Bible, we have many, many eye witness accounts of these events, from people who unfortunately are no longer alive. Strange that we accept eye witness testimony in a court of law, yet not from the well documented Bible. Does this suggest that we should consider the hypothesis that criminals convicted due to eye witness testimony should be released once their accusers die even though the detailed transcripts still exist?

The 'theory' of Christianity will be proven on the Last Day as prophesied in the Bible along with over 3,000 already proven prophesies from the Bible.

#381

Never in my life have I had a Christian knocking on my door unless he/she was invited other than Jehovah Witnesses who make up only 0.08% of the American population. And....I admire their courage and desire to convert others to Christianity although that would not be my way. At least their hearts are in the right place.

For you Mr Pig. A simple cut and paste to save your poor 'wittle' fingers from all that typing....lol.
https://www.livescience.com/21491-what-is-a-scientific-theory-definition-of-theory.html
"A scientific theory is not the end result of the scientific method; theories can be proven or rejected, just like hypotheses. Theories can be improved or modified as more information is gathered so that the accuracy of the prediction becomes greater over time.

Theories are foundations for furthering scientific knowledge and for putting the information gathered to practical use. Scientists use theories to develop inventions or find a cure for a disease.

Some think that theories become laws, but theories and laws have separate and distinct roles in the scientific method. A law is a description of an observed phenomenon in the natural world that hold true every time it is tested. It doesn't explain why something is true; it just states that it is true. (I interject.....kind of like a Christian's continuous profession of their faith) A theory, on the other hand, explains observations that are gathered during the scientific process. So, while law and theory are part of the scientific process, they are two very different aspects, according to the National Science Teachers Association.

A good example of the difference between a theory and a law is the case of Gregor Mendel. In his research, Mendel discovered that two separate genetic traits would appear independently of each other in different offspring. "Yet Mendel knew nothing of DNA or chromosomes. It wasn't until a century later that scientists discovered DNA and chromosomes — the biochemical explanation of Mendel's laws," said Peter Coppinger, an associate professor of biology and biomedical engineering at the Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology. "It was only then that scientists, such as T.H. Morgan working with fruit flies, explained the Law of Independent Assortment using the theory of chromosomal inheritance. Still today, this is the universally accepted explanation (theory) for Mendel's Law."

But until DNA and chromosomes were discovered to be fact....
Mendel's work was largely ignored and even ridiculed until it's profound significance was recognized at the turn of the 20th century (more than three decades after his death in 1884) with the rediscovery of his laws when other highly renowned scientists independently verified several of Mendel's experimental findings, thus beginning the modern age of genetics.

DAY 59!!!! I am so blessed!
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 397
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/19/2019 9:31:48 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_religion

Congratulations on your 59 today ,There appears to be something to growth of religions While ones truth is one thing and others truth is the other thing And Judaic faith That is solid Would never embrace the New Testament As verification of the Messiah Now accept a Messiah Yes? believe that Jews and islam's converting to Christianity Offers some Ideology that Christianity is the true faith;con currently you must embrace in your spirituality ideology that so many are converting to Islam Has some verification of the validity of that religion. The resurrection Preceded by the offering up the spirit To cover all of humanity:I think is something to Ponder this Good Friday and Easter Sunday ?

btw He wasn't Christ when he died he was God when he died
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 398
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/19/2019 9:36:18 AM
Had to address these.
#379

The notion that beliefs and ideas deserve respect is fundamentally wrong. Ideas stand or fall on their own merits and not all beliefs are respectable.


Yet a belief or an idea becomes a hypothesis which may evolve into a theory, often being revised and which only MAY be definitively proven to then become a Law.

#383

Are you kidding me? How has anything I've said possibly indicate I'm of the mind that the pursuit for more answers should cease?? My position has been the exact opposite.


So what exactly is your position? Bit contradictory?


That's my biggest problem with Christianity - thou shall believe or else. It demands belief backed by a threat, no matter how anyone tries to slice, dice, or sugar coat it.

So is that why some refuse to believe that climate change is caused by global warming and will have world wide catastrophic consequences?
Demands belief backed by a threat.....I guess, until the catastrophe is too wide spread to consider coincidence and dismiss.
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 399
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/19/2019 9:56:35 AM
#397

so many are converting to Islam Has some verification of the validity of that religion. I think is something to question this Good Friday and Easter Sunday ?


Both Christians and Muslims in the one God or Allah. Christians believe that the only path to heaven is the faith that Jesus died for us in true repentance of our sins. This differs from the Muslims who believe that belief in 'God' and good works will lead to heaven's final reward. A very fundamental difference. Is one right and the other wrong? I can only speak for myself. I choose to believe that Christ died for me and my faith which requires me to treat others as I would like to be treated myself will ensure my own endeavors towards good works as I am able.
 Inicia
Joined: 10/11/2018
Msg: 400
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Christianity and POF - Can they be combined?
Posted: 4/19/2019 10:02:32 AM
Here's Another way to examine the ideology of faith based on a threat . If you didn't believe that doing the right thing, combined with your faith would offer you reward in the afterlife- How would You feel about your faith? And how would that affect you?:Maybe, even to the degree, knowing hell is guaranteed for afterlife ?Would your love be the same? Would your faith be the same? How would that play out ?Would you still be willing to have faith in your God knowing that your eternity was to be hell rather than the Golden gates of heaven ?

So if that would change your feeling Really check it out examine it , Do you give more power /control of your life ?Is it Indeed Christ or Something that plays in your conscious About evil in the devil ?So Do you Desire Being Christ like For love And acceptance And inclusion into the Golden Gate And that is why you rebuke the devil ,Then I would say the devil already has your soul .And the one in charge knew exactly what was up ,Our gift of the content
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