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 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 51
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problems with time wasters and unexplainable vanishingPage 3 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)

Men make more money on average because they choose to work longer hours, in more dangerous occupations and are more aggressive when it comes to asking bosses for raises and promotions. Men have been socialized to believe that they should be providers and that the ability to make money is part of a man’s attractiveness. Of course this is going to give men more of an incentive to make more money than women.

Also, you’re just talking about the average. What about the exception? Some men make less money than some women. What if a nurse was on a date with a factory worker? The nurse makes more money - who should pay according to your theory?


I agree with everything you just said. And if the woman does make good money then I think it is expected she'll pay at least for herself. But that is the exception because there are very few women in my part of the world that actually make good money. And I think that women don't purposely choose the jobs with less hours and money. Women are just drawn to careers in education, health care, social services, offices and the hospitality industry while men get drawn to traditionally male jobs which do pay better but have more hours. A lot of men where I live work at the potash mines, the CN railway, agriculture, the trucking industry and the oil/gas industry and make big bucks but not too women go into those jobs. I have thought about it but have zero interest in that kind of work. I like helping and taking care of people at my job, even if the hours and pay aren't awesome. I make more money than the average woman I know though. Many women I know make even less. I struggle to think of women I know who make more than 65,000 a year while a ton of men I know make much more than that. Many teachers make just below that. Some registered nurses make lot more than that. My aunt was one of only two female engineers at CN in her region for 20 years, something that came about because the government forced the CN to put some women into higher positions in the 1980s because they had a practice of relegating female applicants to much lower-paying office positions.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 52
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Posted: 4/16/2019 8:18:40 AM

Some women have complained about men being "too boring" during dates. The ironic thing is these women (at least in my experience) often won't win a Miss Congeniality award either. They expect a man to take the lead in terms of being witty or funny.

True. Isn't there a saying that there are only boring listeners or something to the effect?


Overall men make more money than women. But there are some successful women that make a lot of money. If I dated one of these women, I wouldn't expect them to pay for me just because they may have more money than I do.


In a world like that I can see us all under reporting our jobs/incomes. We would all say we are part time waiters where everyone are cheap tippers.

For example, with my ex in the bedroom it was only what she wanted, when she wanted it, and not willing to compromise or accept that men are visual.



Feminist women tend to be more like that than non in my experience.



Equal could also mean worth the same in intrinsic value

True there are many meanings, but not sure I would quantify human beings based on "intrinsic value".


Men make more money on average because they choose to work longer hours, in more dangerous occupations and are more aggressive when it comes to asking bosses for raises and promotions.

As I have said younger, unmarried women without children are actually making more than men now. It kind of makes sense because in an office job everything being equal, I think women actually might work harder because they LIKE their jobs while most men I know can't wait to go home. Men have little to prove in the work space today and many of the younger generation would like to work home where they can play video games during breaks.

You did say something that is correct about men being more aggressive and they also tend to be willing to work overtime, after all they need the money for dates.
You left something out, EQUALLY if not more relevant. Most good jobs have perspective employees list salary requirements. I did a HR summer intern. Women tend to put a lower amount they will work for, so of course they will be offered a lower starting salary to begin with which sets a path for a lower salary. My brother was in charge of the proofreading dept of a big 4 accounting firm and he said the same thing. A lot of women in the accounting field and he saw it all the time on applications. I could concur, you gotta pay me A LOT if you expect me to show up to work, and listen to the latest gossip by the water cooler.
That being said, my brother also said the women sometimes cried when being fired and he should be paid more to deal with that crap!!


in more dangerous occupations

That is true, but when women were complaining I think they were comparing salaries in the same occupations. Women did fight for the right to enter certain occupations, and it has been an issue since in some fields.

We have female cops for example and sadly my experience is they tend NOT to carry their own weight. Literally since in the academy they get out of doing NORMAL push-ups,etc. Here is a field where hiring large numbers of women is political and they get the same pay and often better working conditions. Go to 1 Police plaza you will see mostly women cops working there, especially pretty ones. You got these model looking females who spend their whole 20 yrs inside with weekends off. Same thing at police Academy. At every pct most of the cushy inside jobs go to the women. Often what happens is they get pregnant and get stationed inside and NEVER leave. They often get to study since they are inside and are now more likely to promote to Sgt.
We accept it because it is safer for us on the street. I had a female partner, she was good with paper work so I didn't mind, but if there was a fight I was basically on my own. You learn quickly to develop a gift of gab, so the cavalry has time to arrive.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 53
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Posted: 4/16/2019 10:00:30 AM
Those kind of office jobs don't exist largely here in Western Canada. The bulk of those jobs are out East in places like Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa. Most of the office jobs here pay little or else they are government jobs which pay okay. We are a resource-based economy out here and maybe that's why gender roles can be fairly traditional. Many men go away to work and even the few women with these jobs do eventually quit when they have kids because women are still by and large the ones looking after the kids here.

I do feel weird about a guy paying and at times I insisted on paying but I think it really bothered the guys that I did win out and pay my own. It's like I'm taking something away from them. I only paid because I had thought times were different and it was normal for girls to pay in this day and age but I've learned those are just feminist ideas that do not apply in sunny Saskatchewan.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 54
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Posted: 4/16/2019 11:19:17 AM

Equal could also mean worth the same in intrinsic value - not that there aren’t physical differences. Despite that men and women do have physical differences there are things that we both can do. Women can also pay for dates.

Good point -- yes, same intrinsic value, even if there is a difference in trend-lines in how women's emotions & physicalities are -- by both genetics and social upbringing. And yes, women Can pay for dates...

If I paid for a first date it would make me happy if a woman paid for the next one.

... but speaking of social upbringing, there's a social Market. It's not going to break. :) Expecting a gal to pay for the next outing if ya go out, isn't going to happen as any trend. Even if you only operated in an environment where women were truly independent and doing just fine in life financially.

For guys just out to get laid they probably wouldn’t care if a woman is stingy.

He's going to realize the social market, and he's not going to want to buck the system out of principle to ruin his chances of some action. Also -- not just that type of guy. A guy who sees some real relationship potential in said gal on 1st date isn't going to want to do that either. He can "figure that out" later. Maybe by date #4 coming around and she never giving a clear honest motion to pay for anything prior, he could "test" things by slipping it on her. If she gets ends up getting weird about it or losing some interest after -- OK, not LTR material. If she's cool with it, she'll want to do it sometimes. Like, trying out a bar down the road. Walking in, him saying "Here, I have to run to the bathroom. Can you grab me a Bud Light?"

But jumping into "I pay this date, you pay next date" -- from Date #1, is only going to ruin things for ya.

But there are some successful women that make a lot of money. If I dated one of these women, I wouldn't expect them to pay for me just because they may have more money than I do

And it wouldn't work that way. :) In the end, it doesn't have any real effect on the Social Expectation. Unless it's an outlier situation like it's a known situation of a sugar-mamma taking out a young buck who's still in college, etc. However, among women in big cities, who pride themselves on making a good living, beyond the guy doing it as a gesture (and him most likely doing pretty well for himself too, otherwise she wouldn't go out with him) -- she'll contribute here and there at least. You'll find some of that. But to find a solid 'social rule' even within that to be roughly you-get-this-one-I-got-next is going to be asking too much.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 55
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Posted: 4/16/2019 11:52:14 AM
I don't think the paying thing has anything to do with how much someone makes or who makes more.
I always offer to pay at least my share because it's the right thing to do, in my mind. I know there has been a "social expectation" for the guy to pay, but I've never been comfortable with that...even when I was young.

I've never had a problem with who pays what on a date. I pay, he pays...who cares. I won't argue or fight about it if he insists either way, though.

My job isn't physical (except for the bookstore which really is), but there was a guy working in my office years ago who at first did more than I did, then we were pretty equal, then I took on a lot more...moving into computer age, etc., and he ALWAYS made more than me.
The reasoning was...he was a guy and he had a family. Apparently, I was just working there for petty cash or pocket money, I dunno.
It took about 20 years for me to turn that corner.

I feel badly, because apparently the dinner unicorns really exist and I thought they were a fantasy.
 jessebunnies
Joined: 2/18/2013
Msg: 56
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Posted: 4/16/2019 12:08:50 PM

Some women have complained about men being "too boring" during dates.

I mean boring as in you can't hold a conversation. You lack skills to say more than a word or two or you repeatedly talk about the same thing, gym, his golf game, his ex, what you look like without clothes or just a subject your not the slightest bit interested in. I'm sure this has happened to everyone at one time or another.

I don't expect you to put on a comedy show for me but at least know how to carry an intelligent conversation with more than a couple or words and subjects.
 spectravision
Joined: 3/20/2019
Msg: 57
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Posted: 4/16/2019 12:55:50 PM

I mean boring as in you can't hold a conversation. You lack skills to say more than a word or two or you repeatedly talk about the same thing, gym, his golf game, his ex, what you look like without clothes or just a subject your not the slightest bit interested in. I'm sure this has happened to everyone at one time or another.

I don't expect you to put on a comedy show for me but at least know how to carry an intelligent conversation with more than a couple or words and subjects.


My friend went out on a date with a Woman and all she did was talk about her horse and horse riding all night. I had to explain to him the reason for this that nerves can do that, and something she knows about is a safe haven.

A lot of men are boring as f*ck. Only talking about footy and I'd boink this and that. I think they think it makes them more manly. Rolls Eyes.

A guy has asked you what you look like with no clothes on a first date?
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 58
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Posted: 4/16/2019 1:00:42 PM

But jumping into "I pay this date, you pay next date" -- from Date #1, is only going to ruin things for ya.


I don't think I am stretching to say any chat about whom pays, etc will not increase the attraction during a 1st meet.


However, among women in big cities, who pride themselves on making a good living, beyond the guy doing it as a gesture (and him most likely doing pretty well for himself too, otherwise she wouldn't go out with him) -- she'll contribute here and there at least. You'll find some of that.


Few times they had a business expense account and insisted on paying. I agreed because I know how many employees love to abuse their expense accounts to feel alive. I felt I was doing her a favor. But I took a mental note to never let her borrow my plastic if we were dating.


Expecting a gal to pay for the next outing if ya go out, isn't going to happen as any trend. Even if you only operated in an environment where women were truly independent and doing just fine in life financially.


Actually is he headed to Norway(you are Norwegian guy ) they just might and probably will.
 FFS38
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 59
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Posted: 4/16/2019 2:25:13 PM

I mean boring as in you can't hold a conversation. You lack skills to say more than a word or two or you repeatedly talk about the same thing, gym, his golf game, his ex, what you look like without clothes or just a subject your not the slightest bit interested in. I'm sure this has happened to everyone at one time or another.


I personally can't say I've had a date where she talks about her golf game or what I look like without clothes on, but I do keep an open mind on these things.


I don't expect you to put on a comedy show for me but at least know how to carry an intelligent conversation with more than a couple or words and subjects.


If the men you're meeting are only capable of saying "me tarzan, you jane" then maybe you're meeting the wrong types, not all of us are like that.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 60
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Posted: 4/16/2019 3:04:25 PM
"Boring" is a relative term though. For example, I have a client I really enjoy talking with about so many topics but today two of the other girls at work were saying how much they didn't like going to this guy's house because he went on tangents about boring stuff.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 61
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Posted: 4/16/2019 4:12:56 PM

f the men you're meeting are only capable of saying "me tarzan, you jane" then maybe you're meeting the wrong types, not all of us are like that.


Bite your tongue! That line works for me!
 FFS38
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 62
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Posted: 4/16/2019 5:40:08 PM

Bite your tongue! That line works for me!


Not to say that line doesn't work for some..


You lack skills to say more than a word or two

at least know how to carry an intelligent conversation with more than a couple or words and subjects.


Just maybe not for jessebunnie.
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 63
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Posted: 4/16/2019 8:31:29 PM

The only reason I wouldn't see a guy again would be he did something on the date or said something that made me not interested at all. For example I've had guys try to come back to my house with me, another one talked about having an FWB, others I find out skeletons that fell out of their closets while on the date, guys who are too conceited, just plain boring to converse with and/or their lives are boring (kinda goes with being conceited), cheap on the date, not as attractive as his pictures and I know I can do better. I've also had the situation where we got along online and via text but in person it was "is this over yet"!


I love these heartwarming stories of epic fails.

What I would really like to see is for women to post examples of the blathering profiles that suckered them into the disappointing- but entertaining- first meets and dates, in the first place.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 64
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Posted: 4/16/2019 9:01:06 PM

I mean boring as in you can't hold a conversation. You lack skills to say more than a word or two or you repeatedly talk about the same thing, gym, his golf game, his ex, what you look like without clothes or just a subject your not the slightest bit interested in. I'm sure this has happened to everyone at one time or another.

I think you're putting initial messages, messaging, and talking in convo in person altogether. I think in person this shouldn't be a trend, hence, that's what talking online's for. If one does run into that a lot, then they're not picking up on obvious signs. But yeah, I can understand Online, guys not being very conversational. Of course, even if they are not 'boring' guys, for it to "catch", it still takes two to tango.

"Boring" is a relative term though. For example, I have a client I really enjoy talking with about so many topics but today two of the other girls at work were saying how much they didn't like going to this guy's house because he went on tangents about boring stuff.

True. "Boring" and "annoying" both can be influenced by the environment they're in, the physical attraction (lack thereof) of the person, and their interest in what they're talking about -- when it wouldn't be that way at all with anyone else.

Also, the 'type' of person (usually a gal) who expects the other to 'prove' themselves to them as their POV when going out on a date, I imagine, will run into More they find boring/odd/etc., because it's more of a 1-way street for them, which the other can pick up on and probably doesn't have a game-plan for it.
 Kokanee_Ice
Joined: 2/16/2019
Msg: 65
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Posted: 4/16/2019 10:15:00 PM

I don't think I am stretching to say any chat about whom pays, etc will not increase the attraction during a 1st meet.


Well I once had a gal ask me to clarify what I was looking for before she agreed to set up a first meet - was I looking for somebody to go out and do things with like she was? That question turned me off completely. I know she wanted to be sure I wasn’t looking for FWB, but it still came off like she only wanted a friendship.
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 66
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Posted: 4/16/2019 10:16:49 PM
And never forget that a person can be shy or nervous at a first meeting which can explain why they were so great talking to in text but not in person. I tend to be great at talking via text or phone but in person my shyness comes out and I am so scared at saying or doing something wrong that I sometimes come off as standoffish. Some guys can bring me out of my shell though. Sometimes different personalities play well off different people too.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 67
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Posted: 4/17/2019 6:45:53 PM

Some guys can bring me out of my shell though. Sometimes different personalities play well off different people too.

Yes. That's one of the "skillz" that can do a guy well when meeting up with a gal online. It can mean the difference between meeting & meating. When you're on the internet date as a guy, and she's shelled-up -- don't panic. Even if impressions are lack of interest on her part. That's why you want to go somewhere where there's drinks. It lubes up the comfort zone. Second, the "skill" being able to be the Opposite of being shelled-up as she is, when she is -- in a good way.

Kind of like running into a friend's sister who's down & out, who you don't really know -- but taking her over to the next bar, and cheering her up in the right way, with the right tone. A little different than this, more closer to it than reading from some "dating script". The gal will open up, and the situation will be more enjoyable -- even if she's not that into you. But if she is -- well, you better hope it's not your friend's sister from online -- he'll get pissed. ;)

Well I once had a gal ask me to clarify what I was looking for before she agreed to set up a first meet - was I looking for somebody to go out and do things with like she was? That question turned me off completely. I know she wanted to be sure I wasn’t looking for FWB, but it still came off like she only wanted a friendship.

I don't see that question -- how you phrased it, and it alone -- implying wanting to be just friends, and without the benefits. Not at all. I see it as not wanting a guy who just likes to lounge around. I see that all the time in profiles. Additionally, not wanting a 'date' at his place as the 2nd or 3rd date to Netflix & Chill. Again, that question you put up there alone in that context just sounds like she wanted a guy who liked going out.
 Kokanee_Ice
Joined: 2/16/2019
Msg: 68
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Posted: 4/17/2019 7:11:14 PM

I don't see that question -- how you phrased it, and it alone -- implying wanting to be just friends, and without the benefits. Not at all. I see it as not wanting a guy who just likes to lounge around. I see that all the time in profiles. Additionally, not wanting a 'date' at his place as the 2nd or 3rd date to Netflix & Chill. Again, that question you put up there alone in that context just sounds like she wanted a guy who liked going out.


Probably, but it also comes off as standoffish when women are overly concerned that men just want sex. It’s also a turnoff when women write a profile that sounds like they’re afraid of physical intimacy. Confidence is also sexy in a woman. Even men looking for a long-term relationship and marriage want to know that a woman is comfortable with her sexuality. I’ve been told that insisting a woman pay her share of a bill comes off as unattractive and standoffish. Overall, I think women are more standoffish than men. Women have a longer list of requirements men need to pass in order to get a second date.
 TomásIasan
Joined: 5/17/2018
Msg: 69
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Posted: 4/18/2019 8:04:31 AM
Think it’s more to do with people not capable of reading the signs. Their to busy talking about themselves and when you try to move on to next subject their totally oblivious or it reminds them of this time with this person and they continue you on. Really they like the sound of their own voice so much you let them continue with it even after the date not even bothering to try. Just a little something people might want to think about, dating should show your interest in the other person listen to them ask questions get responses and share turns it’s not all about you.
 fullmoonguy2
Joined: 6/14/2017
Msg: 70
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Posted: 4/18/2019 1:39:47 PM

So far, not one of those requests has gotten a positive response--despite the fact that I almost always (with one notable exception) had a good time.


So what's the problem?


I know lots of handsome, interesting men I am not the least bit attracted to , so it isn't about looks.


So again, what's the problem?
What is "missing".

Or don't you know that yourself?


Attraction is very complex.


I know lots of handsome, interesting men


What's complex about it?
If they are so handsome and interesting, what is "missing" that would keep you from wanting to spend more time with them?

And people wonder why this is all so difficult.
 bbbuyguy
Joined: 4/25/2019
Msg: 71
problems with time wasters and unexplainable vanishing
Posted: 4/30/2019 8:22:26 AM
Typically this is usually a subtle experience with me. Usually it goes along the lines of it being a "nice date", and I'd get the fade if I went for a 2nd date. If I can tell there isn't a connection, I move on.

Anyways, I must have spent around 2 to 3 weeks talking on the phone and texting with this woman. We didn't meet sooner than that because she had scheduling and had stuff scheduled when she had her child. But we really it off talking on the phone numerous times. We finally met in person, surprisingly, it was like I've known her a long time. Nothing changed between pre-meeting up through meeting face-to-face.

The chemistry was through the roof, she was touchy feely with me on the arm so I saw it going somewhere. We really clicked!

When I walked her to her car, she said that I looked much better than I did in my photos, and I KNEW I had the next date on lock! I asked her if she'd like to get together that same weekend, and she said "Yes! I'm available all weekend!"

So when I contacted to plan things for that weekend, I didn't get a response (left voicemail). 2nd time I texted her, she DID respond, but apologized and said it's been a "hectic week" with work and her friend being in the hospital (she was visiting her). I apologized about her friend and hoped that the friend got better. Then I mentioned that so-and-so was happening that weekend, and if she would like to join me.

I got the crickets. Dead silence. Ghosted. From hot to cold. It irritated me a bit that we had this time invested in getting to know each other and her leading me to believe she's into me.She put on a good act apparently. I almost wondered if she went into a personality transformation. lol
 julystorm22
Joined: 6/15/2018
Msg: 72
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Posted: 4/30/2019 9:41:29 AM
That's rough when that happens. I've had that a couple times where things seem to be great on a first meet, I even got asked back out during or right after the date and then for whatever reason they cancelled before the date happened. It really sucks because you get your hopes up that there's mutual interest. The first guy at least gave me a reason, said he was thinking about it later and said he just doesn't think he wanted to date someone with kids. The second guy I have no clue why he lost interest. We were texting one day and all of a sudden he quit texting and when I texted him and tried to talk to phone him I found out I was blocked. It really bothered me and I reread my texts a hundred times and there was just nothing I could figure out and our video chat the night before had went well, as had our first meetup. The only thing I can come up with is that he was lukewarm about me and finally decided to cut it off but why block me at this point in the game? Why not just tell me point blank that he's just not feeling it? Ghosting is awful. I never ghost anyone, I always just give them the kindest explanation I can.
 bbbuyguy
Joined: 4/25/2019
Msg: 73
problems with time wasters and unexplainable vanishing
Posted: 4/30/2019 10:52:32 AM
I'm starting to think online dating is turning into the whole "kid in the candy store" thing. Chasing the end of the rainbow. That fleeting dopamine rush...the same kind of feeling when pulling the handle on slot machines is the best comparison I can come up with.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 74
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Posted: 4/30/2019 11:02:26 AM

Probably, but it also comes off as standoffish when women are overly concerned that men just want sex.

But I didn't even get a Clear signal it was that and only that, though. Many gals like to go out and do things -- and don't want a guy who lounges around. But instead, see the town. A compatibility thing. I think like how many women can be, you're being too sensitive about it (at least by what you claimed she wrote).

Confidence is also sexy in a woman.

I don't think saying she wants a guy who likes going out, is a sign of lack of confidence, nor do I think it's a sign of avoiding sexual relations. At all. You're reading it wrong. And as far as gals who Do put out Clear signals that they just don't want to hook up... From my experience, I have seen no connection between that, and not hooking up.

I've had that a couple times where things seem to be great on a first meet, I even got asked back out during or right after the date and then for whatever reason they cancelled before the date happened.

To be fair though, how one feels Right Then, in that "bubble of time" -- with someone who's Not part of their lives -- can be very different than when the dust settles later. So they honestly may not be lying at all. It's how they feel. Then.

- Don't rely on 1 compliment + them acting as any satisfied date would. We're brought up to be nice like that, even if said person is unideal for anything beyond a fling.

- People can amp it up a bit, but many times that Is how they feel At That Point. But you're not part of their lives. They have other men/women they're talking to. And things that conflict with their availability, and yours, where the Real measurement of how they feel about rolling with you comes into play, after that dust settles.

- Remember that everyone does Not take a date the same way. Not everyone, even of the same "person type", has the same mindset going in or about a date with someone. It's just a date. They're talking to others. They have others stuff going on.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 75
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Posted: 4/30/2019 11:02:36 AM

Women have a longer list of requirements men need to pass in order to get a second date.

Very true since women have "emotional needs/feelings" standards. The problem is , emotional feelings is not some thing thy can predict or quantify/qualify, and in the end it comes down to lack of attraction/chemistry. This even happens when they find the guy to be handsome but something is missing they feel. But somehow some guy comes along who "hits" those emotional needs and the woman go gaga over them. They can be short ,etc it doesn't matter. OLD of course is a bit different than how natural attraction works since when they do OLD EVERYTHING about a guy seems to qualify or quantify in some way. It isn't very emotional. For guys choosing it is easier since a lot of our attraction is related to our boners. LOL..I hate to say that but lets be honest!

Anyway , until a women gets in love type feelings the man is always being judged consciously and unconsciously, and can be dropped along the way. However, payback is a b#%%^ they say, because once a women gets the strong emotions a man actually can pretty much stop doing everything! He often doesn't even have to be decent anymore because love is blind!
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