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 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 51
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^^^^^
Personally, I think your desire for equality will destine you to be alone. Even a feminist loves to be courted. So you meet a woman that you love the look of, love to talk to, have an amazing conversation but when it's time to pay the bill, you pull it towards you and tell her what her half is or wait for her to offer because that is clearly so important to you. Sorry but that is a clear indication of a man who isn't prepared to spoil her a little....put a little effort in....make an investment....impress her with your chivalry. She may offer but your acceptance says a lot. First date should be coffee or comparable and you don't want to pay. We've already established that the ratio of men to women is very high.....so as far as she is concerned.....NEXT!
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 52
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Posted: 5/1/2019 11:13:28 AM

I think you and July S. would hit it off like a house on fire, and... she is Canadian too.


but she doesn't pay for her dates does she?


A female Filipino coworker of mine calls me “baby” all the time and sometimes jokes that I’m her boyfriend. The thing is, she’s married.

Don't want to generalize but infidelity is rampant in that culture,e and men prone to violence in those situations.Back home many stabbings and shootings due to infidelity. Surprising considering the Roman Catholic upbringing.


Personally, I think your desire for equality will destine you to be alone. Even a feminist loves to be courted. So you meet a woman that you love the look of, love to talk to, have an amazing conversation but when it's time to pay the bill, you pull it towards you and tell her what her half is or wait for her to offer because that is clearly so important to you. Sorry but that is a clear indication of a man who isn't prepared to spoil her a little....put a little effort in....make an investment....impress her with your chivalry. She may offer but your acceptance says a lot. First date should be coffee or comparable and you don't want to pay. We've already established that the ratio of men to women is very high.....so as far as she is concerned.....NEXT!


Post of the day/week. That is the point I been trying to make. Nothing romantic about chatting about the bill. Best to keep meeting simple and cheap but he takes care of everything. That being said, can't talk for Canadians, but most American feminists only seem to want equality when they gain from it. Having the guy pay is a gain!
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Posted: 5/1/2019 2:09:30 PM
Most women I meet pay their own way without there even being any discussion.

Impress her with chivalry???....bahahaha.

As I've said before, who needs Comedy Central when POF Forums exist?
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 54
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Posted: 5/1/2019 7:25:55 PM
^^^^
If I pay my way without discussion, you won't be seeing me again. Doesn't leave me owing anyone, anything. Otherwise my company is worth at least the price of a coffee. What goes around comes around.
 Kokanee_Ice
Joined: 2/16/2019
Msg: 55
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Posted: 5/1/2019 7:54:44 PM

Personally, I think your desire for equality will destine you to be alone. Even a feminist loves to be courted. So you meet a woman that you love the look of, love to talk to, have an amazing conversation but when it's time to pay the bill, you pull it towards you and tell her what her half is or wait for her to offer because that is clearly so important to you. Sorry but that is a clear indication of a man who isn't prepared to spoil her a little....put a little effort in....make an investment....impress her with your chivalry. She may offer but your acceptance says a lot. First date should be coffee or comparable and you don't want to pay. We've already established that the ratio of men to women is very high.....so as far as she is concerned.....NEXT!


Good Lord woman! Could you get any more judgmental? Telling me that I’ll be alone for the rest of my life because I see women as my equals. How very Christian of you to give me a negative statement like that. This is why I stopped going to church - tired of hypocrites. Btw, according to the bible woman was created for man, got him kicked out of paradise, and because of that should be obedient to their husbands.

What you don’t seem to understand is why should a woman be entitled to be spoiled first? Why is it always the man who has to make an investment and the woman is the prize? I value myself too much to not think that I’m also as much a prize as any woman, and a woman also has to make an effort to impress me as well. Basically chivalry says that a man is worthless until he can impress a woman, but the woman always has intrinsic value. I’ve learned to value myself more than just being a cheap circus monkey. If a man doesn’t pay for the cost of a coffee than he’s no more a loser than a woman won’t. Some feminists don’t mind paying for themselves- my sister is one of them. Not all women think the same. If a woman thinks that her time is more valuable than mine, I’m thinking “Next!”.
 Kokanee_Ice
Joined: 2/16/2019
Msg: 56
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Posted: 5/1/2019 8:27:35 PM
Call Marc Rudov.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3S7oH8O7JNg
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Posted: 5/2/2019 4:14:43 AM


What you don’t seem to understand is why should a woman be entitled to be spoiled first? Why is it always the man who has to make an investment and the woman is the prize? I value myself too much to not think that I’m also as much a prize as any woman, and a woman also has to make an effort to impress me as well. Basically chivalry says that a man is worthless until he can impress a woman, but the woman always has intrinsic value. I’ve learned to value myself more than just being a cheap circus monkey.


F*ckin' aye, this brings a smile to my face. Don't ever lose this mindset.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 58
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Posted: 5/2/2019 5:45:37 AM

F*ckin' aye, this brings a smile to my face. Don't ever lose this mindset.


Yeah hes money! And on the money to boot, but Swami says he should pay for coffee.

I’ve learned to value myself more than just being a cheap circus monkey. [/quote
That's awesome, well said. But on another front , you can value yourself all you want, but the problem is your trying to swing for the affection of women who ALSO value themselves. Therefore, someone has to blink first. As stated, women who are attractive, and even unattractive, have much more choices and can get on without blinking, at all!

Some feminists don’t mind paying for themselves- my sister is one of them.
True, but I thought the mainstream advice was that you shouldn't be seeking someone like your sister. Your sister , from what you told me, seems like a big turn off. She is very judgmental and thinks she is better than men she dates, or doesn't date. Why the frack you want a women like that? No offense to you, but I would rather get a root canal while being stung by a horde of bees than date your sister!And that's a fact!


Telling me that I’ll be alone for the rest of my life because I see women as my equals.


First, see them as you like , but they aren't equal to you. You just think they are and they even think they are, just not when it comes to pay a fair share. Just had to say that!

Second, I think her comment was an astute calculation of the chance of you meting this ideal women of yours, dating her ,and then keeping her forever. Sure some women exist like you admire but in North America they are not a dime a dozen. A rarity so your chances are like finding the proverbial needle in the haystack.

But dating is also a numbers game, therefore, if you meet this "ideal" women, there is still a greater than average chance the date won't go well. Then if it goes well, she might ghost. If it all works out, likely you will date for 3 months(the average) and be looking again. Back to looking for the needle in the haystack. Lightening does hit the same place twice sometimes so you might get lucky!

Now if you were dating in Sweden I might advise you differently because I found that it was pretty common for women to pay for menthere and even make 1st move. But you are in maple syrup land!
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Posted: 5/2/2019 6:57:12 AM

Sure some women exist like you admire but in North America they are not a dime a dozen. A rarity so your chances are like finding the proverbial needle in the haystack.


I don't really deal with the "who pays?" issue at all. As I mentioned, they tend to pay for themselves without any discussion. They're of the "I don't need no man to take care of me!'' mindset. In the last ten years, I can only recall one instance where a woman gave me any crap about it. We were meeting at an ice cream stand near my house, and she got there before I did. When I walked up to her, I said "did you already order something?" She replied "no, you're the man, you're buying." Needless to say, she got the shaft.


Second, I think her comment was an astute calculation of the chance of you meting this ideal women of yours, dating her ,and then keeping her forever.


If he knew what was good for him, he'd forget all about the "forever" goal, but that's another matter altogether.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 1/17/2018
Msg: 60
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Posted: 5/2/2019 7:07:12 AM

If I pay my way without discussion, you won't be seeing me again. Doesn't leave me owing anyone, anything. Otherwise my company is worth at least the price of a coffee. What goes around comes around.


I don't get this.
Is your company worth more than his company?
And what comes around?

Honestly, I NEVER knew this was a problem until I came here.
I don't know why anyone wouldn't expect they should offer and expect to pay their share.
Nothing wrong with treating someone...but that's what it should be...a treat..not an expectation.

I'm an old lady and I didn't grow up expecting anything just because I'm a woman.
 spectravision
Joined: 3/20/2019
Msg: 61
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Posted: 5/2/2019 7:13:02 AM
^^ When I'm on a date or out I don't do the who's buying this round because the Women I've encountered in my whole life put their hands in their pockets. I've had Women I have been seeing get annoyed if you refuse their gestures of paying.

I see on POF profiles in the old first date/conversation starters. Its the mans choice surprise me. Surprise I'm on the next profile and it isn't because I'm cheap but it's a case of who do you think you are? Cleopatra?

smh
 Kokanee_Ice
Joined: 2/16/2019
Msg: 62
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Posted: 5/2/2019 10:13:34 AM

Sure some women exist like you admire but in North America they are not a dime a dozen. A rarity so your chances are like finding the proverbial needle in the haystack.


I don’t know about that. Until I see absolute proof of how many entitled women there are, I will not attempt to say they are the majority. What you’re saying is kind of analogous to telling women they have to put up with a FWB or FB relationship because most men just want sex.

I could never be happy if I had to be in a relationship with woman who can’t understand my point of view on this. It would be better to be single and just do things I like to do - save my money for camping trips and bush craft. Actually a lot of men wish women would buy them dinner, but they think they have to go along with what women want because they have no choice. We do have a choice.

If a woman doesn’t like something about a man, she won’t see him again. There’s this stupid assumption that all men are supposed to be so desperate and horny that even if we don’t like something about a woman, we’ll still not want to ruin our opportunity to have sex. I think that women underestimate how much men actually do judge them by their generosity and humility - we’re not all about looks.
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Posted: 5/2/2019 1:02:49 PM
Damn. Now you've done it, Kokanee. My eyes are welling up. It's like you've turned over a proverbial new leaf.

As I said, don't change your mindset. If you don't conduct yourself like a man with options, you sure as f*ck won't ever be one. Pure and simple. You will be stuck with a woman playing the role of your mother. There is unbelievable power in telling a woman no. Women can smell a p*ssy-whipped pushover 100 miles away and will manipulate the everloving shit out of him, then eventually lose all respect for him over it. Then there are women who won't even give this type of guy another chance after the first date.


There’s this stupid assumption that all men are supposed to be so desperate and horny that even if we don’t like something about a woman, we’ll still not want to ruin our opportunity to have sex.


BINGO, and here's the thing - unless a woman specifically states sex is actually on the table, it's not even there to leave on the table. Don't ever forget that. A lot of women are dating multiple men a week and aren't necessarily going to be putting out for all of them. Do you really want to be trying to "impress women with chivalry" knowing you might not even make the cut?

Don't stray from the path you seem to be on now. Valuing yourself is priceless.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 64
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Posted: 5/2/2019 1:17:09 PM

Until I see absolute proof of how many entitled women there are, I will not attempt to say they are the majority.

You plan on conducting a survey? Of course they are the majority because the millennial's and older still grow up with this tradition. They don't consider it being entitled. Just a feminine trait and men being masculine. I for one want women to be feminine and men to remain masculine so I will spring for a cup of coffee. Entitlement is more if she thinks she can get you to an expensive restaurant and order lobster. A cup of Coffee? I give the homeless guy in front of Dunkin Donuts.


They're of the "I don't need no man to take care of me!'' mindset.

Not the Conan Barbarian broads I would expect from you but if you like that Sarah Jessica Parker "sex in the city" attitude that is your right.


I'm an old lady and I didn't grow up expecting anything just because I'm a woman.

Based on your age group I would assume you naturally would experience the situation where men mostly paid for dates. My generation it was/is the natural order and unless I go under 35 yr old with dating, I really don't see many women who are experienced in paying their own way. Perhaps men are just so accustomed doing so that it is surprising when they don't.


Actually a lot of men wish women would buy them dinner, but they think they have to go along with what women want because they have no choice. We do have a choice.

Sure, not surprising many men would want that to boost their ego's but how valuable is that? I would appreciate a home cooked meal instead which takes even more effort and time. I don't need their money and I am guessing 94% of women have less of it than myself.

What you’re saying is kind of analogous to telling women they have to put up with a FWB or FB relationship because most men just want sex.

No connection since most women won't date men who just want sex unless they themselves want something casual. But I certainly believe women who DON'T have sex are 100% certain to not enter into a intimate LTR with a guy since sex is needed otherwise it is just friendship.

There’s this stupid assumption that all men are supposed to be so desperate and horny that even if we don’t like something about a woman, we’ll still not want to ruin our opportunity to have sex.

Well there certainly is a competition but the idea of men paying is a cultural thing. For most men it is a moot point because if we just want sex we don't care about how humble she is.

I think that women underestimate how much men actually do judge them by their generosity and humility - we’re not all about looks.

Perhaps but you can only talk for yourself. Most men don't care if a girl is humble until later on if and when he is deciding if she is "mother of his children" material. But tbh to "test drive" most men don't care.


save my money for camping trips and bush craft.

If that is the case you don't need her to pay for coffee. More important is to evaluate her cooking skills. Can she start a fire without a match? Can she turn the skin of deer into a handbag? Actually stop with the coffee dates and just start your date at the entrance of camp crystal Lake. Even better if it is the 13th on a Friday.
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Posted: 5/2/2019 1:56:51 PM

Not the Conan Barbarian broads I would expect from you but if you like that Sarah Jessica Parker "sex in the city" attitude that is your right.


I'm not familiar with what her character on the show was like, so I can't say if her attitude is compatible with mine.

Simply put, I need to be physically attracted to her and find her attitude tolerable. Not much else. The very second I catch even a hint of an "I have the vagina, I make the rules" attitude, I'm walking, because they were told beforehand I wasn't looking for a relationship to begin with, so there's no place for "rules".
 Clytemnestra
Joined: 6/6/2018
Msg: 66
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Posted: 5/2/2019 2:03:18 PM
OP, did I miss the part in your profile where you state you 'Go Dutch' as a general rule and would be really excited if a woman offered to 'take you out' and pay for the evening?

Seems it would be a short cut to finding a compatible woman for dating rather than weeding through those who are accustomed to the man paying for dates.

Just a suggestion~
 Kokanee_Ice
Joined: 2/16/2019
Msg: 67
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Posted: 5/2/2019 7:58:20 PM

You plan on conducting a survey? Of course they are the majority because the millennial's and older still grow up with this tradition. They don't consider it being entitled. Just a feminine trait and men being masculine. I for one want women to be feminine and men to remain masculine so I will spring for a cup of coffee. Entitlement is more if she thinks she can get you to an expensive restaurant and order lobster. A cup of Coffee? I give the homeless guy in front of Dunkin Donuts.


Millennials were born from 1946 to 1964. They are still a decade or two older than me, so I don’t plan on dating them. What’s considered masculine and feminine actually changes throughout history. I mean, in the Middle Ages men wore tights. Before the advent of feminism people also would have said that women who don’t wear dresses, who work outside the home or who pursue higher education aren’t real women - now this is not even an issue. Buying a woman a cup of coffee is actually not worth it, since most wouldn’t be impressed by it. Actually the majority of my first meets have been when women asked me out first, and not one of them offered to pay for my coffee. I actually think that a woman will choose a funny, interesting guy who doesn’t pay for a coffee over a boring guy who does.


Sure, not surprising many men would want that to boost their ego's but how valuable is that? I would appreciate a home cooked meal instead which takes even more effort and time. I don't need their money and I am guessing 94% of women have less of it than myself.


I think it’s not moral to date somebody because you need their money - both men and women. I can take care of myself, but I can’t afford to wine and dine women every month either. Men can also cook for women. Why do you think the French culinary profession is dominated by men?


No connection since most women won't date men who just want sex unless they themselves want something casual. But I certainly believe women who DON'T have sex are 100% certain to not enter into a intimate LTR with a guy since sex is needed otherwise it is just friendship.


In theory it’s the same thing, it’s just that a lot of men are simps so they will go along with it. Women are not willing to change their standards.


Well there certainly is a competition but the idea of men paying is a cultural thing. For most men it is a moot point because if we just want sex we don't care about how humble she is.


Where does this cultural thing come from? The dinner date is a modern thing - it became popular only a few generations ago. My grandfather who came from Eastern Europe didn’t have money to eat at restaurants, and most people then didn’t either. Even if before men were the main providers, in a lot cultures the women’s family had to offer the man a dowry in order to compensate him for having to support her.


Perhaps but you can only talk for yourself. Most men don't care if a girl is humble until later on if and when he is deciding if she is "mother of his children" material. But tbh to "test drive" most men don't care.


That reminds me of a girl’s profile that I just saw. The only thing she wrote was, “Y’all are twats. If you can’t say anything more than two words, like “Hi sexy”, get your lazy ass off of my profile. “ She expects men to make a big effort in first messages, but doesn’t put any effort into her written profile herself. She did, however, have very sexy pics. If women can’t show that they have anything other to offer than value as sexual objects, men are going to treat them as so. I sent her a message saying, “Hey baby,” just to piss her off, and she blocked me.


If that is the case you don't need her to pay for coffee. More important is to evaluate her cooking skills. Can she start a fire without a match? Can she turn the skin of deer into a handbag? Actually stop with the coffee dates and just start your date at the entrance of camp crystal Lake. Even better if it is the 13th on a Friday.


Maybe I should a Native American girl. One just clicked on my pic on the meet me feature and called me, “Cutie.” Actually since I live near the Rocky Mountains, most women here say they’re looking for a big mountain man with a beard and tattoos who’s into camping and hiking.


Simply put, I need to be physically attracted to her and find her attitude tolerable. Not much else. The very second I catch even a hint of an "I have the vagina, I make the rules" attitude, I'm walking, because they were told beforehand I wasn't looking for a relationship to begin with, so there's no place for "rules".


Exactly. No man wants to be in long term relationship with a woman who thinks she’s a princess or a diva


OP, did I miss the part in your profile where you state you 'Go Dutch' as a general rule and would be really excited if a woman offered to 'take you out' and pay for the evening?


I changed my profile. It’s kind of a mishmash of several women’s profiles that I saw. I want to see how women react when men make the same demands of them that they do from men. For example, “weigh less than I do,” is analogous to, “ Be taller than me.”
 Clytemnestra
Joined: 6/6/2018
Msg: 68
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Posted: 5/3/2019 5:45:17 AM
^^^


Millennials were born from 1946 to 1964


Not to be pedantic or picking on you OP, but I think you meant to say<<<'BabyBoomers' were born from1946 to 1964, not the so-called Millennials.

And yes I'm a BabyBoomer.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 69
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Posted: 5/3/2019 6:31:27 AM
Well often women do have a tendency to put a lot of expectations in their profile. Here is a profile that is a parody of women profiles I have seen:

*********: Warning!: My "profile" is not for the faint of heart.: **************

I am not your 'nice guy'. Read my headline if you read anything on here.

***Now ask yourself in all seriousness..Would YOU message or respond to a guy who's profile reads or comes off like the below?? I've seen the exact ‘requirements’ on chicks profiles and made my own version in reverse..****
“First off, I am NOT here to play games, so if you are NOT interested in sex, then I highly suggest you hit the back button now”.

Also :

IF YOU ARE TALLER THAN 5’3 THEN PLEASE HIT THE BACK BUTTON NOW !! I like my women on the petite side. Sorry if I sound like a douche, but that’s just how I feel.

With that said, I am looking for a woman. NOT a girl, but a woman. I want a woman who talks like a woman (not a man).

Oh yes, and you MUST have a tattoo on your lower back. That is a turn on for me. If you do NOT have a tattoo on your lower back, then you are NOT date-able.

Also.. IF YOU ARE OVER 30, I WILL DELETE YOUR MESSAGE. I WILL NOT DATE A GIRL WHO IS THAT OLD.

Also, I only date women who are fit. You must work out and have at least a set of “C’s”. Anything less and you will be deleted from my inbox. Sorry if I sound like a **stard, but I know what I want.

Also, if you wear pants, I will NOT date you. You must wear a skirt. Wearing pants is ghetto, and I do not date ghetto.

Oh, and I don’t like girls who watch soap operas, chick flicks, and Sex in the city. If you do, or have, we will NOT get along.

You MUST be able to make me laugh! If you can't then you = Boo hoo!

Okay, now that I’ve cleared all of that nonsense up, let me tell you about myself :

I like music and I love going to restaurants (with you paying of course). I'm the sweetest person you'll ever meet. My family means the world to me. I’m very down to earth and I'm an open-minded individual. I like to meet all types of people. I love to laugh! If you think you’ve got what it takes and can handle me, then send me a message!!”
 SurelyIamShirley
Joined: 7/22/2016
Msg: 70
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Posted: 5/3/2019 8:36:58 AM
#51

Personally, I think your desire for equality will destine you to be alone.

#55

Good Lord woman! Could you get any more judgmental? Telling me that I’ll be alone for the rest of my life because I see women as my equals. How very Christian of you to give me a negative statement like that. This is why I stopped going to church - tired of hypocrites. Btw, according to the bible woman was created for man, got him kicked out of paradise, and because of that should be obedient to their husbands.


Let's break it down shall we?
a/ How is my personal opinion on your desire for equality in any way judgmental?
b) You are judging me.
c/ Christians are still entitled to have an opinion and it is not hypocritical to state one.
d/ You don't see women as equals hence your last sentence. You just want woman to consider themselves equal to you and pull out their wallets.


Why is it always the man who has to make an investment and the woman is the prize?

Since the beginning, men have been beating their chests, ruffling their plumage, and fighting each other for that very prize.

#54

If I pay my way without discussion, you won't be seeing me again. Doesn't leave me owing anyone, anything. Otherwise my company is worth at least the price of a coffee. What goes around comes around.


#59

I don't really deal with the "who pays?" issue at all. As I mentioned, they tend to pay for themselves without any discussion.


Bingo.

#60 in response to #54

I don't get this.
Is your company worth more than his company?
And what comes around?


If I have no interest in seeing him again, I will insist on paying my way. Otherwise, I will graciously accept his generosity knowing that I may have an opportunity to treat him another time. It's commonly known as 'the' dating ritual.

Laughing at the male exchange.....

#65

Simply put, I need to be physically attracted to her and find her attitude tolerable. Not much else. The very second I catch even a hint of an "I have the vagina, I make the rules" attitude, I'm walking, because they were told beforehand I wasn't looking for a relationship to begin with, so there's no place for "rules".


And your profile says it all...."Wanting to date but nothing serious" and your headline....ouch!
You have a penis and you make the rules. Double standard much? Such arrogance and sexist too! Very surprised if they are not already walking.....How will this attitude help KI who I believe is looking for something more meaningful.

#66

OP, did I miss the part in your profile where you state you 'Go Dutch' as a general rule and would be really excited if a woman offered to 'take you out' and pay for the evening?

Pot calling kettle black and overlooking that a woman's comparable excitement may work in your favor?


Seems it would be a short cut to finding a compatible woman for dating rather than weeding through those who are accustomed to the man paying for date?


Or not.....Perfect!

#69
ROFLMAO!!!!!
 MeramecRiverRat
Joined: 10/12/2017
Msg: 71
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Posted: 5/3/2019 8:53:04 AM


but she doesn't pay for her dates does she?


A while back July made a post saying she wouldn't be a meal whore (not her wording). Blonde Angel replied, trying to recruit her to become one. I doubt BA succeeded.

If the OP goes to a "coffee" place for a first meet, he should get there earlier than she does, buy his own drink or snack, and sit down. When she shows up, he can stand up to shake hands (if she doesn't immediately go to the sales area), but then he can sit down and she can go buy her own. Or if she gets there really early, she should buy her own drink while waiting for him instead of loitering / trespassing. Avoid any place they bring a check, as the typical server will deliver a combined bill.

I don't drink coffee, but have had first meets at places that sell additional stuff (hot chocolate, lemonade, a sandwich during her lunch hour at a place near where she worked, etc). Every time, the above pattern occurred except for one time, she insisted on paying for my drink (it was one of her usual haunts where she did stuff on her laptop and would be there anyway, as she lived with her mom and enjoyed getting away from the mom).

Early this year I dodged a bullet by weeding out a Bumble bumbling idiot who suggested Starbucks (there was a passive aggressive implication I should counter offer something more expensive) and had the typical entitlement attitude expecting me to pay for her bill. She showed her true colors in texts in time for me not to leave the house. After I got out of the shower and was about to put on somewhat nice clothes, I saw there was a new text from her, an angry rant that included unsolicited advice for me to pay everything for future matches, ending with "good luck". Shrugged and stayed home.
 Kokanee_Ice
Joined: 2/16/2019
Msg: 72
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Posted: 5/3/2019 10:06:19 AM

Let's break it down shall we?
a/ How is my personal opinion on your desire for equality in any way judgmental?
b) You are judging me.
c/ Christians are still entitled to have an opinion and it is not hypocritical to state one.
d/ You don't see women as equals hence your last sentence. You just want woman to consider themselves equal to you and pull out their wallets.


Because your opinion is a deliberate attempt to bring down my self-esteem and was more of a personal attack. What if I said that you’re destined to be alone because you can never find a Christian man? I think you’d also be insulted.
I never said I don’t see women as my equals, I simply stated what the bible says about women being obedient to their husbands. I don’t think it’s wrong for me to except a woman to pay for herself. It would be wrong if I expected her to pay for me as well. You still never responded to my comment that quite a few women has invited me out for coffee, and not one offered to pay for me. I took a look at your profile and you wrote that it would be nice to find a man who makes more money than you and is financially stable. You are also concerned about money.


Since the beginning, men have been beating their chests, ruffling their plumage, and fighting each other for that very prize.


You are naive if you think women don’t also compete with each other for the most desirable men. Women may actually be more competitive than men. Men support each other and offer each other advice on how to get sex. Women, on the other hand, can be very nasty to each other. You know you are also competing with women who know what men want. There was a girl here once who posted a thread called, “How do I eliminate the competition?”


If I pay my way without discussion, you won't be seeing me again. Doesn't leave me owing anyone, anything. Otherwise my company is worth at least the price of a coffee. What goes around comes around.


So? Did it ever occur to you that maybe if you don’t pay your own way he might not also want to see you again. It can go both ways.


If I have no interest in seeing him again, I will insist on paying my way. Otherwise, I will graciously accept his generosity knowing that I may have an opportunity to treat him another time. It's commonly known as 'the' dating ritual.


The dinner date is no ritual or tradition, but a modern creation. I mean, when did it become common? Maybe the 1930’s? In fact, dating itself is a modern thing. Before people usually got married very young without too much courting or ritual involved. A man didn’t have to wine and dine a woman or even buy her a coffee.
Profile Review
Posted: 5/3/2019 1:08:40 PM

And your profile says it all...."Wanting to date but nothing serious" and your headline....ouch!
Very surprised if they are not already walking.....How will this attitude help KI who I believe is looking for something more meaningful.


I don't suppose you noticed my profile also states I'm only here for the forums, did you? Secondly, I currently have 9 messages in my mailbox despite what my profile states. Yeah, they're really running for the hills. Back when I did use the site for dating, I didn't have one single day without messages coming in. Not one, and my profile was over the top ridiculous. One of these days, some of you goody two shoe women of the forums will realize you're actually not the majority.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 74
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Posted: 5/3/2019 2:06:08 PM

Before people usually got married very young without too much courting or ritual involved.

Actually there was a lot of courting but most of it was not going on dates. It would include a man bringing tokens of his affection to the women. But fact still remains that most women want some form of courtship and in our society in the last few decades it means dating with the man leading and taking care of everything. Women of course didn't have much money decades ago and there should be some modern changes but here lies the problem: how does a man lead unless he invites the women out and take care of everything? Today's society doesn't give much choices. But underneath it all is corporate marketing. Even the fact that there used to be more watering holes that didn't sell food. The establishments are trying to make money by pressuring men to buy food for dates. In night clubs it is even worst. Dance floors used to be bigger but now bottle service and tables take a larger area and girls go around trying to sell roses. They are very pushy too.

Again there is nothing bad about offering to buy a women a drink that you asked out. Males buy male friends drinks all the time. No one is saying to invite a women you barely know for food. I wouldn't do that until I know her better and we are close to the "have sex date", if we didn't already. In fact, no one says you need to even go out for drinks. You can go for a walk. Then the issue isn't there. But expecting a drink or 2 that is ordered when you invite doesn't make someone a meal whore. If you want, I will show you a classic experience I had with a meal whore goes back before OLD.


You are naive if you think women don’t also compete with each other for the most desirable men. Women may actually be more competitive than men.

Well that is the problem. There is a statistic that the top 20% of men get 80% of the women. PUA guys came out with that but OLD makes it more like top 10% of guys gets the top 90% of women. So yeah women do compete, but unfortunately they seem to compete for the top 10% and think the rest of us are creeps. If you were the top 10% universally you wouldn't be starting threads here. But the good news is that for some women you will be THEIR top 10 % . I get first messages women who are hot(and obviously blind) telling me I am gorgeous. I just shrug my shoulders and realize that for THEM I am their top 10%. But that means I still have 9% who can win out above me if I am not smooth.There are also "image", some thing you can manipulate to attract more women. In the 80's and 90's guys would grow their hair out and be called rockers. Some guys become bikers. But paying for drinks is NEVER about impressing a women.

So? Did it ever occur to you that maybe if you don’t pay your own way he might not also want to see you again.


Although that is true, it doesn't seem to worry them and attractive women can just "next" men every minute and still have a date EVERY DAY. Any man claiming the same is lying. There have been OLD experiments. A hot model women will write men and get close to 100% response rate. That doesn't include the hundreds of initial messages they receive. A male model who is in top 1% might get close to a 40% -50%reply rate(I can get that % if I use tactics ). We had a female here who made a an account as a male using the photo's of a male model and she claimed 40% reply rate. I think that a male sending messages would get more higher reply rate due to tactics/game though. Numbers don't lie, the statistics clearly favor women!

Because your opinion is a deliberate attempt to bring down my self-esteem and was more of a personal attack.

That wasn't meant as an insult and you know that! I said the same thing basically by saying you might be on here a long time looking for a needle in a haystack. C'mon man!! Same meaning! It isn't necessarily literal. She wasn't trying to offend you. Perhaps there are better ways to meet women who like to pay for men? I hear Gigolos make good coin.

still never responded to my comment that quite a few women has invited me out for coffee, and not one offered to pay for me.

There you have it! You just proved the dilemma you have. When women invite you out they won't pay for you so obviously women mostly in 2019 don't think they should pay for a man. Only time a women paid for me was if they had an expense account.

Women, on the other hand, can be very nasty to each other.

True, which is way some women avoid other women but some women, who tend to be feminists can also be VERY nasty towards men. It is even worst because when women are nasty towards men they do it fully well aware that because of upbringing and chivalry men won't be nasty back. So these women can get away with it. Men insult another man and fists fly.

A while back July made a post saying she wouldn't be a meal whore (not her wording). Blonde Angel replied, trying to recruit her to become one. I doubt BA succeeded.

People doing bad things often try to justify it by increasing the number doing it. If I recall we had a gal from the Bronx(kind of friends with her so won't say name) who used to basically go out on meetings and going around stuffing food in her mouth had to be included. But meal whores are easy to stop. You are the MAN , you lead. You go for drinks , you drink. Go get Ice cream.eat ice cream. If they try to stray, you get firm. Meal whores are easy to spot, they try to steer you(often not slim either). In the end their ways hurt them because most desirable men aren't going to have a reason to put up with it and that leads desperate beta men who they instinctively attract to but aren't really attracted to since others don't want them(social proof).
 _Cinnamon__Girl_
Joined: 3/28/2016
Msg: 75
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Posted: 5/4/2019 7:12:49 AM

Personally, I think your desire for equality will destine you to be alone. Even a feminist loves to be courted. So you meet a woman that you love the look of, love to talk to, have an amazing conversation but when it's time to pay the bill, you pull it towards you and tell her what her half is or wait for her to offer because that is clearly so important to you. Sorry but that is a clear indication of a man who isn't prepared to spoil her a little....put a little effort in....make an investment....impress her with your chivalry. She may offer but your acceptance says a lot. First date should be coffee or comparable and you don't want to pay. We've already established that the ratio of men to women is very high.....so as far as she is concerned.....NEXT!


ITA!
For me, truly being courted is the way to my heart. Putting that bit of effort in is impressive, and goes a long way with a lot of women.
Now, as a relationship develops, most women will start paying their way. If things get as far as cohabitation, she should always pay half of the bills.

Now, when I'm out with a guy, and there is no connection/attraction, I always offer to pay my share of the bill. The guy always insists on paying, though.


Millennials were born from 1946 to 1964. They are still a decade or two older than me, so I don’t plan on dating them.

Did you mean Baby Boomers?
I was born in '64, and consider myself a Boomer.
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