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 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 98
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are the gas prices killing you yetPage 2 of 27    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27)
What a fascinating species we are, sophisticated enough to create so many useful ways to use energy and oblivious enough to be so blind to the inevitable consequences of all that energy use.

Am I the only one here who thinks four dollar gas right now is actually a GOOD thing?

I don't know why the current price of gas is what it is, and don't much care. What I do know is that within all of our lifetimes four dollar gas will at some point be considered the 'good old days'.

We won't know until years to come, but right now we're either at or near 'peak oil', after which supply will no longer be able to keep up with demand. It won't much matter whether we drill off shore or in Alaska, in the big picture. Globally we haven't discovered as much new oil reserves in any one year as the the amount of oil we consumed that year since the early 80's.

We've had it easy the past fifty years or so as technology exploded, transportation options included, and energy stayed cheap. Too cheap. The result was entrenching a lot of unsustainable habits that we're just going to have to change, one way or another.

We could keep gas and other energy prices artificially low as long as possible to stretch out the good times, or we could take note of periodic spikes like the current gas prices and the next time we consider what vehicle to buy next, where to live or work, etc..., just maybe start incorporating rising energy costs into our thought processes.

For such a rational species we don't often make rational decisions beyond our interests and needs of the moment. So it would be naive to assume we'll manage well if the price of gas stayed below three dollars until the inevitable day when it leaps to twenty dollars or more or just simply can't be found in adequate supply any more.

We need regular reminders like today's gas prices to nudge us in smarter directions in future decision making. Better a nuisance now than a true crisis later.

At least that's my take,

Dave
 Outdoor2
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 99
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are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/26/2011 7:56:05 PM
I put $20 of gas in my truck...first time since January 31...
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 100
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/27/2011 6:54:06 AM
I saw this "gas thing" coming a long time ago. So in early 2004 I bought a new Civic Hybrid. I was in the market for a new pickup truck when I figured, "why spend 30 to 40 thousand dollers on a truck when my old one (1994) works fine (and it's ultra cheap to insure). I figured I should get a high gas milage car to get me places and just use my truck to pull my boat, go hunting with and use to move or take stuff to the dump. (China and India are buying cars at a rapid rate and that means less gas to go around) This summer (for fishing trips) I'm looking at spending 300 dollars a month! But my car may only run me around 10 bucks a week (at $5 a gallon). The high cost of gas in my old truck will suck and yes I could buy a newer truck that gets a higher mpg, but why...? A new truck means a loan from a bank and a interest rate as well as full coverage auto insurace. The few extra mpg's would never be able to cover the added cost of a bank's interest rate as well as the higher cost of insurance. My 94 Dodge with the V8 works for me. Plus it's paid off as well as the civic hybrid.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 101
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are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/28/2011 8:59:44 AM
However much I have to pay for gas, I'm consoled by the knowledge that higher gas prices are good for this country. And how do I know that? Well, because our president has said so, and I'm sure he wants what's best for the U.S. He's in favor of making oil expensive, just as he is with coal, in order to encourage us to use less, and to turn instead to "green technologies." I can't imagine why he isn't reminding people now that he said those things. Doesn't he want us to be happy that since he took office, gas has gone from $1.80 to $4-plus?
 shoulderlegs
Joined: 4/14/2005
Msg: 102
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are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/28/2011 10:20:08 PM
Ummmmm.......
You're kidding.....right?
I HOPE you're kidding! Without emoticons attached to a statement like that, it's hard to tell! (<--- like THAT one!)
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 104
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/29/2011 4:17:32 AM

Doesn't he want us to be happy that since he took office, gas has gone from $1.80 to $4-plus?


The internet is such a great tool...to prove people either: don't know what they are talking about, listen to incorrect facts, or are just plain old making this stuff up...

Other new figures showed that home prices around the country are falling at an accelerating pace, suggesting no end is in sight for the housing meltdown. As of Tuesday, regular gasoline was selling at a nationwide average of $3.14 a gallon, according to AAA, the automobile club, up from $2.35 a year ago. The price has jumped 19 cents a gallon in two weeks. Energy specialists predict that as demand picks up further this spring and summer, retail prices will surpass the high of $3.23 a gallon set last Memorial Day weekend.

NY Times 2/18/2008 (when the president took office)

I would note that at that time the price of gas had risen almost a buck, over the prior year, under the prior administration. And I further note that the article shows that home prices are heading into the toilet....
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 106
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/29/2011 5:12:56 AM

So we had a drop for the first part of his administration before he could implement any Energy policies, now that his policies have been implemented and his future plans regarding energy have been made known Prices have steadily risen.



In addition I find it surprising how short peoples memories are...seems we've forgotten the rising gas prices during the deep water Horizon well explosion...and all the revolt and political unrest in the Middle East...of course, these things that speculators and the oil industry have used to drive prices up could be attributed to the administration...or some other deep seeded conspiracy theory...
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 108
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/29/2011 10:05:26 AM
I note that Exxon Mobile posted quarterly profits of $11 billion...as a free market teaparty capitalist this must make one estatic....while the rest of us are wondering why there are still oil subsidies...I thought the free market teaparty capitalists want big government out of "out business"...because free enterprise runs so efficiently...and now you want government to regulate prices....when will you guys ever get your story straight???
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 110
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/29/2011 12:01:55 PM

I note how you totally ignored my question, what has Obama done to lower gas prices? When the Government controls where and when companies can drill for oil they are already involved.


The Obama administration has kept gas prices from reaching $8/gal if one compares US gas prices to the rest of the free world....as have all prior administrations.

But, gee...what's the cost of getting a barrel of petroleum out of the ground in the US these days...what are the total oil reserves of the US...Exxon Mobile can barely afford to stay in business with their meager $11 billion in profit this past quarter.

That dayum Obama administration just wants to encourage developement of alternative fuel sources, promote mass transit, and educate the consumer to consume less energy...wadda bunch of jerks...

Even Sarah Palin knows better than to yell "drill baby drill" anymore after the Deep Water Horizon fiasco....and she's not a very sharp tack.

Gas prices aren't killing me...I have my hybrid...have made my home energy efficient (and am looking at geothermal heating/cooling) and have figured out how to not be the ugly american, at least as far as consumption is concerned.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 111
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/29/2011 6:36:23 PM
<
I note that Exxon Mobile posted quarterly profits of $11 billion...as a free market teaparty capitalist this must make one estatic....while the rest of us are wondering why there are still oil subsidies.


Thats pretty anemic numbers, considering what they spent in revenue. Sorry to burst this often cherry-picked bubble, but Exxon only makes 9-12% profit on sales....much like Wal-mart, Piggly-Wiggly, or any other business out there. The reason for the billions in profits is because they sell hundreds of billions worth of product, far more than most any other entity in the world.







Most of Exxon's earnings are from oil and natural gas, not from selling gasoline.

Exxon's profit margins are below-average compared with others that have triggered no outcry. Exxon's first-quarter profit margin was 9.4%, meaning...

~Exxon kept 9.4 cents of every $1 in revenue.
~Microsoft kept 27.3 cents of every $1 in revenue
~General Electric, 11.4 cents of every $1 in revenue
~McDonald's, 12.3 cents of every $1 in revenue .

In fact, Exxon is below the 11-cent average of Standard & Poor's 500 companies, says analyst Howard Silverblatt.

Sources: the companies, Standard & Poor's Capital IQ

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/energy/2006-04-27-xom_x.htm
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 112
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/29/2011 7:28:50 PM

Thats pretty anemic numbers, considering what they spent in revenue. Sorry to burst this often cherry-picked bubble, but Exxon only makes 9-12% profit on sales....much like Wal-mart, Piggly-Wiggly, or any other business out there. The reason for the billions in profits is because they sell hundreds of billions worth of product, far more than most any other entity in the world.





I'm sorry but using a report form april of 2006 is cherry-picking and not reflective of the real picture....and if Exxon has had average earning's of 9%...since say 2001...they've beaten the S&P 500.
 Neopoli
Joined: 3/1/2011
Msg: 113
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/29/2011 8:08:10 PM
1998, 2006, 2009, 2011, doesnt matter. They make an average fluctuating profit of 9-12% of sales at about any given time period ....much like Walmart, Piggly-Wiggly,or any other business out there. Heck...even Pepsi beats them with their 13.1% profit margin.

$11 billion profit is hard to fathom...especially when you ignore the fact that they are 10 times larger than most other mega-corporations & generate $100+ BILLION in revenue that creates that amount of profit. They're not doing anything different than any other business out there. They're just doing it on a much larger scale, obviously.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 114
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are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/29/2011 8:46:15 PM
Oh Boo Hoo......Exxon only made a 9% profit

Imagine if they lowered gas by a buck and only made an 6% profit.....poor fella's woulda only made between 6 & 7 million

(yes, I pulled those numbers out of my ass.....but you get the point!)
 shoulderlegs
Joined: 4/14/2005
Msg: 116
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are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/29/2011 9:42:13 PM
I don't know if we're allowed to post links, but this is a very interesting read:


http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/energy-a-environment/158319-production-not-taxes-will-ease-fuel-price-spikes
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 118
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 4/30/2011 7:51:51 AM
We can all whine about the cost of gas, natural gas and electricity. But there are things we can do about it. I just got rid of my cable tv bill which saves me $60 a month.(Going with no TV what so ever. Just have a dvd player for movies) Next year when my cell phone contract is up I'll get a pay as you go phone and try a magic jack Internet home phone. Not sure what to expect with that MJ phone but maybe it will be ok. And I'll save around $50 a month by getting rid of my cell bill. If not then I'll keep on using regular cellular service. I also live alone and every winter I keep the heat low, and I mean low. Right around 50 degree's. It F'ng sucks, but my highest heat and electric bill all winter was $104 for the month in a 1800 sq foot house.. (I do go thru a lot of firewood in which I get from the local yard waste dump as well as our private land) We also don't need to go out and eat all the time as well as choosing not to buy alcohol, tobacco products or junk foods in general. There are ways to save $$ if your willing to suffer or give up some comforts.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 121
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 5/1/2011 6:52:14 PM
Sob...I feel your pain...$4.22/gal down the hill...But S@S gives gas points...since I don't clip coupons well...the discount points come in handy...

But, yanno...I find it appalling that making an effort to reduce consumption is ridiculed...that has gotta be the stupidist thing I've read in some time...even if one cannot afford a hybrid, which by the way gets better milage than my last car by 100%, there are other things one can do....like plan the routine trips...figure out how to go to all your stops in one excursion rather than going to one spot, returning home, and then running out because you forgot something....stop racing from one destination to another....STOP road rage....oh...and it's easy to tell which of us might be succeptable to that ....all these things have the potential to increase milage 30% or more...

Commodities prices are a function of supply and demand...OPEC manipulates supply and demand is what it is....so, whenever there is political unrest or natural disaster OPEC takes advantage, speaks about what they will or won't do with respect to supply, and the price is driven up by speculation...and to say that the oil industry or OPEC don't benefit from rising petroleum prices, and participate in it's price manipulation, is just foolish...

But, really....we should drill more...and completely remove all government regulation...because less government is good...we should rely on big business to police it's own drilling operations...because it's proven they do this well....and we should make every effort to consume as mush petroleum as possible as fast as we can....because...hot fast cars and inefficient heating, cooling, and manufacturing can be sustained for at least the next 20 years....we should remove funding from such programs that support the research in alternative fuel sources...these are wasteful...there is no such thing as green house gases or global warming...and so what if there is...it's only our children who will be fvcked
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 125
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 5/3/2011 5:02:45 AM

From what I recall, and I could be incorrect, Libya only supplies about 2% of the worlds needs. The US gets almost nothing from Libya, yet gas prices have increased about 50% here.


True, but the risk premium for oil due to Lybia and political instabality of the rest of the middle east has risen dramtically.

From AAA the average price for a gallon of gas on 4/3/2011 is $3.967 and a year ago was $2.895...the record average high was on 4/17/2008 at $4.114....why was it so high then?


Agreed, but there's no shortage. I'm still blaming wall street speculators as the main culprit


Risk premium=Commodities trader/speculator

But, the free market teaparty capitalists believe that government should regulate or manipulate the price of gas...which is just mind bogglingly against all they stand for.

 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 127
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are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 5/3/2011 7:05:52 AM
If one is having financial problems because of the gas prices......
the answer is to get a loan for a new Hybrid car so that the bank is making money, the auto manufactor is making money and the struggling family is further in debt and has a car payment they can't make!
Uh-huh......tell me Big Business and Politics arent' in bed together
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 129
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 5/3/2011 7:46:05 AM
Yea...it's really bad out there...my neighbor just bought a new 2011 GMC Denali-loaded...price $60+k...sticker milage 12-18...average milage 14...but, yanno...they're not worried about the price of gas...and when I decided to buy I didn't need to buy a Lexus hybrid...but, I thought conservation starts with one person...the problems exist where it's only one person deciding to conserve...it's irresponsible to say that people cannot plan their daily driving excursions better....leave earlier for their destinations and drive fuel effeciently....stop road rage...apparently, conservation is for our kids and grandkids...because the oil spigot gonna run dry sooner rather than later.
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 132
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 5/3/2011 8:08:14 PM

Anyways in my state, tax revenue is generated off of gas so more fuel efficient cars are going to cause the price to go up to keep revenue up, instead of down. Of course I hope I am wrong about that.


I've thought long and hard on this one...and I gotta agree...

It's those gawddayum fuel efficient hybrid cars driving the price of gas up....muddafeckers
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 134
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are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 5/5/2011 7:59:26 AM
We can thank this president for doubling the price of gas since he took office. He's driven down the value of the dollar with his irresponsible economic policy, made the future supply of foreign oil more uncertain through his weak foreign policy, and done all he can to discourage domestic production.
 totalazzhole
Joined: 3/27/2011
Msg: 137
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 5/7/2011 7:23:04 AM

are the gas prices killing you yet


such are our "MAJOR" 'life-threatening' problems in N. America & Europe.


in many parts of the world, what would be 'killing' you would be rampant disease, starvation, cluster bombs, land mines, artillery fire, sheel burts & good old-fashioned bullets & fragmentation grenades..
 BigBadNIrish
Joined: 1/31/2011
Msg: 138
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 5/7/2011 11:16:59 AM

in many parts of the world, what would be 'killing' you would be rampant disease, starvation, cluster bombs, land mines, artillery fire, sheel burts & good old-fashioned bullets & fragmentation grenades..


Whew...and am I glad that these aren't the issues we face today in North America.

Anyway...does anyone remember, or have they conviniently forgotten, that gas frm May to August 2008, during Bushes term, was over $4/gallon...and then miraculously nose dived towards the election???not that was enough to ensure a Republican outcome....with all the other mess the country was left with by the Bush administration.
 CheshireChat
Joined: 5/14/2010
Msg: 139
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are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 5/7/2011 8:23:19 PM
TIPS ON PUMPING GAS
As someone who tries not tot waste energy one something I can do nothing about (the price of gas) thank you Kursty for you tips on pumping gas and when to do it! I love learning something new everyday...cheers
 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 141
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are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 5/8/2011 3:24:09 PM
Catching up after a few days delightfully offline.....


Last year when gas prices were high the cost of hybrids rocketed; if you could find one. Here in So. California, high-test is around $4.60 a gallon.


So the lesson is? Suffer through this high price period, then buy an economy car when gas prices cycle back down again, which they're likely to do soon as we switch to summer fuel formulations.

I have hybrid friends who have successfully incorporated the fickle car buyer mentality into regularly buying a new hybrid with no net loss of money. At times like these they sell their hybrid at inflated prices when folks panic about high gas prices, drive their backup vehicle for six months, then get a newer hybrid for the same price they got for their older one when gas prices cycle back down again.


Anybody see torontogasboycott on Facebook. A different approach in that it targets only one specific company for a whole week to mess up their supply line.


That bogus strategy makes the rounds every time gas prices surge. Problem is, almost everywhere the gas you buy comes from the same local refinery, regardless of brand. Where I live it all comes from the refinery in Ashland, KY, with the only difference the additives various brands add to differentiate Exxon from BP or whatever.

So as long as you're still buying gas, it doesn't much matter which brand you select in terms of having an impact on the supply/demand balance.


My son works with a man who put solar panels on his electric car. It appears to work fine and he doesn't even need to plug it in.


I'll call bogus on this one. The only solar powered cars that are entirely self sufficient are radical competition designs that can only move one light weight driver at very slow speeds in very sunny areas. Some prius models have solar panels, but they only gather enough to power a few of the accessories, not the car itself.


"One thing I have noticed is that when you are filling your tank if you press hard immediately it seems like the meter goes from 0 -2.00 without hearing the gas noise,
so what I am wondering is : is it bettter to fill your tank slowly?
Has anyone else ever thought about this?"

That is a very old trick that many gas stations do to get an extra dollar or 2. I would find another gas station. Anyways in my state, tax revenue is generated off of gas so more fuel efficient cars are going to cause the price to go up to keep revenue up, instead of down. Of course I hope I am wrong about that.



I'm skeptical on this one, too, as in most states all pumps have to be regularly certified and there are hefty fines for any station caught fiddling with their pumps.

I've tracked every drop of gas that's gone into my Prius since I bought it seven and a half years ago, and am quite familiar with the many things that can affect my fuel economy, so would notice right away if a fillup didn't take me as far as I expect it to. I've never seen a difference from one station to the next, other than the difference in how much my tank will hold depending on the angle the car was sitting at when I filled it at a station that didn't have level fillup spots.

Ethanol mixes do a little worse, summer gas formulations do better than winter gas. Warm humid days offer less wind resistance than cold dry air. Cross winds are almost as bad as head winds. If even one tire drops to 20 something psi from the 45 I usually run I notice the drop in mpg. The biggest difference is from driving at high speeds vs keeping it to 55 or less, or making lots of short trips instead of one long haul.

The tax revenue issue IS important to states, but state governments don't get to set pre-tax gas prices. Some states have considered legislation to tax hybrids MORE to compensate for them contributing less tax revenue. I don't know if any have actually passed such laws.

What would make more sense is to tax based on vehicle weight, as heavy vehicles cause a lot more wear and tear on roads than light ones do. Check out the difference in asphalt depth on paved bike paths vs. interstate highways, or look how quickly berms crumble anywhere heavy trucks routinely slip their wheels off into the gravel on turns.

Gas prices are about to start dropping again, barring some new middle east unrest or major oil spill. The smart thing to do is to make all future car buying, commuting, and other vehicle related decisions as if the prices stayed high and kept climbing, so you won't have to complain here the next time they cycle back up, which they will.

Dave
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