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 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 505
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History
are the gas prices killing you yetPage 23 of 27    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27)
As gas prices go up, oil companies increase profit while reducing production, and rely more on exports to expand their record profits. At the same time government revenues from gas taxes go down in response to high prices and ensuing economic decline, conservation, efficiency, and reduced driving. The oil companies are like casinos..their house always wins. Our infrastructure however is crumbling and we are unable to maintain what we have. My sis just missed the I-35 bridge collapse in Minneapolis a few years back, the collapse being an indicator of our aging highway infrastructure. The repubs are holding gas tax re-authorization hostage to diverting it toward more oil company subsidies for drilling offshore, while the Senate Dems want to move funding into infrastructure maintenance and repair. Corporate welfare on one side of the isle and responsible spending on the other. Hmm.
http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articles/2012/03/21/Paltry-Gas-Tax-Drives-US-Roads-into-the-Ground.aspx#page1

Record profits, less production, more exports,shutting down refineries, cutting jobs, and a 30 to 1 return on lobbying efforts for tax breaks.
http://grist.org/oil/big-oils-banner-year-higher-prices-record-profits-less-oil/

That liberal commie scum magazine Forbes, has more on the subject.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/03/14/the-truth-about-obama-oil-and-the-gasoline-blame-game-part-i/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/03/17/the-truth-about-obama-oil-and-the-gasoline-blame-game-part-two/

Of course folks who eat a Gulf seafood diet rich in Napthalene and other Polyaromatic Hydrocarbons might find it hard to read things outside of their echo chambers, it will be difficult to convice of them of reality by using mere facts.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 506
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 2:07:38 PM
Gawd I leave here for an hour or so, and the thread goes back in the looney bin!

"The profits are most likely net, not gross"

That is correct, profits I cited for oil companies were net revenues. Now the gasoline profit, I'm sure as well has some indirect costs in it, the cost to produce, including equipment, labor but also corporate costs.

"gas came back down to $1.84 a gallon"

(sigh) exactly how do you NOT understand that the stock market and commodities market, demand for gas fell in major proporations when shrub threw the economy out the window, by letting the banks runa shell game on mortgages. I bet we could get gasoline down to .50 cents a gallon, by allowing the banks and a shrub wannabe, totally wreck the economy! Of course then most of us, including you, would be living in a refrigerator box under a highway overpass, and not have a car anymore, nor need gas!

"if the drilling restriction obozo put on the oil companies"

OK, so we had a 6 month restriction on offshore drilling...OK so we are talking apples to apples...please cite a government site, that shows said restrictions...not some of your wannabe faux news, or some right wingnut feel good sit..but a LEGITIMATE government site that shows these alledged restrictions!

"this site shows state by state how much gas taxes are"

You keep talking about taxes..taxes..taxes..yet we have shown the federal rate hasn't risen since 1993. If you have a beef with taxes...talk with your pal Bush...no silly, not shrub but Jeb!!!!! hahahahahaha!!!!!

You have yet to rebutt a single fact presented...anything you have alledged we have disproven, all you have here is partisan rhetoric, and some sad quotes from right wing sources.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 507
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 2:13:52 PM

Actually no. Highway funds (taxes) for roads are pegged at the amount of gas sold, but it doesn't help if less gas is sold at higher prices.


Exactly my point if we drilled our own oil the price of gas would go down. That would allow people to buy more gallons of gas so the revenue would go up!


How could I be saying that if what you posted and what I posted are virtually identical? But that's okay, you can ignore it because it makes you incorrect


No you said in post #622 obozo had lowered the gas taxes then in post #624 you said the taxes had not changed in two decades.

Oh, so I guess gas taxes came down since last year....would you blame that on Obama?



Again, how is what you posted any different than what I orginally said? Taxes on gas has not changed in two decades, do you dispute that?


You said both of these comments both can NOT be true. So which one do you stand by?


You obviously flunked economics. profits are figured out after all expenses have been deducted. But I asked for clarification on whether it was gross or net for a reason, so that I wouldn't be making sh*t up.


Does it matter if it is net or gross? It is still their money and they can spend it anyway they choose.

Bottom line the government makes many times more off of each gallon of gas than even the people producing it.


Again a huge epic fail on your part.

If you would quit trying to prove me wrong and do some real research the truth would come to you.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 508
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 2:22:21 PM
"It is still their money and they can spend it anyway they choose"

OMG!!! So you are on here advocating for a aristocracy..am I hearing you correctly? Despite the Citizens United decision, corporations are NOT people, they do not breath, they do not have a heartbeat, they do not have a conscience, they are a profit making entity..pure and simple.

That they are allowed to spend corporate funds to influence elections, or a $100 million through and on lobbyists, to influence legislation that governs them, is a perversion of the system of ONE man, ONE vote! Please anybody show me a vote in an election, made by a corporation?

Further while "legal" in the view of the Supreme Court, to me it is theft! Some of that money should have gone to the stockholders, who actually OWN the company and not be directed by the executives, to ensure their tax abatements, or subsidies don't end.

Even the Supreme Court is capable of mistakes and this is one of their BIGGEST!! The fact that some on their are bought and paid for(Thomas's wife) is no excuse for this perversion.

(sigh) Cue the troll from cally....
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 509
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 2:33:36 PM
OMG!!! So you are on here advocating for a dictatorship..am I hearing you correctly? Despite the Citizens United decision, corporations are NOT people, they do not breath, they do not have a heartbeat, they do not have a conscience, they are a profit making entity..pure and simple.


That is right they are people in business to make money. Why do you work? That is right to make money. If someone was to invent a fuel that could be produced at a lower cost and be massed produced at a volume that could replace oil.

Well then the oil companies would be a thing of the past wouldn't they.

So again these people are able to choose how they spend their money whether they choose to do so as a collective or on a personal level is irrelevant.


That they are allowed to spend corporate funds to influence elections, or a $100 million through and on lobbyists, to influence legislation that governs them, is a perversion of the system of ONE man, ONE vote! Please anybody show me a vote in an election, made by a corporation?


You mean like the big labor unions do? Of course the Wisconsin recall shows that the workers are not drinking the kool aid as they once did. 38% of union workers voted for Walker.

You know one man one vote.

So no dictatorship wanted here that is exactly why the people are done with obozo and the liberals.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 510
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 2:50:26 PM
I've been waiting for this...gotta figure you will go the whole nine yards and bring this up.

"You mean like the big labor unions do?"

Frankly speaking, I don't think the labor unions belong in politics either! Any entity with almost unlimited capital, whether they be wealthy individuals, unions, corporations should be limited in their financial support of any candidate that runs for office.

The problem is always the same, it leads to a perversion of the voting mandate of a government for and by the people.

Do you advocate that unions are evil? I assume you flunked history as well. Unions shortened the work week, to a reasonable amount of hours and days, before that, they could demand 12 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. Unions created worker safety rules, such as not locking them in at work, like in the Manhattan Shirt Company, where 40+ people, mostly teenage women, died in a tragic fire, or child labor laws, so children below a certain age could not employed to risk their lives before they began. Or the largest mass murderer in our nations history, the railroads, who's labor practices slaughtered 150,000 building the transcontinental railroad.

They introduced pensions and benefits as well. If when you started as a mechanic and were paid $6 an hour by some local shop, and a union guy was paid $12 an hour for the same job, I'd be willing to bet you'd have jumped on membership like a b1tch in heat!

Now that's not to say(not unlike their corporate brethren) they are not capable of stupid or bad things. Paying some guy $18-19 an hour to sweep out a plant, makes no sense. Neither does paying him minimum wage so he can't afford to live. That some unions have become big business, is no better than corporate abuse either. A union leader who runs a union and makes 500K or 1 million a year to represent, men who make 50K a year or a little more is wrong.

But such is the state of greed in mankind..

But I get it, you are just one of those, who buys the BS, fox dishes out...come to think of it..we should be turning that idiotic phrase back on you, about the kool aid!
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 511
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 3:10:45 PM

"You mean like the big labor unions do?"

Frankly speaking, I don't think the labor unions belong in politics either! Any entity with almost unlimited capital, whether they be wealthy individuals, unions, corporations should be limited in their financial support of any candidate that runs for office.

The problem is always the same, it leads to a perversion of the voting mandate of a government for and by the people.


I agree with you here. The contributions should be very limited on the union and corporate level. So that shows there is middle ground people from both sides of the isles can agree on.


Do you advocate that unions are evil? I assume you flunked history as well. Unions shortened the work week, to a reasonable amount of hours and days, before that, they could demand 12 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. Unions created worker safety rules, such as not locking them in at work, like in the Manhattan Shirt Company, where 40+ people, mostly teenage women, died in a tragic fire, or child labor laws, so children below a certain age could not employed to risk their lives before they began. Or the largest mass murderer in our nations history, the railroads, who's labor practices slaughtered 150,000 building the transcontinental railroad.


Unions of which I am a member of should be used to protect workers from unsafe conditions and get a fair wage. NOT be in politics!


Now that's not to say(not unlike their corporate brethren) they are not capable of stupid or bad things. Paying some guy $18-19 an hour to sweep out a plant, makes no sense. Neither does paying him minimum wage so he can't afford to live. That some unions have become big business, is no better than corporate abuse either. A union leader who runs a union and makes 500K or 1 million a year to represent, men who make 50K a year or a little more is wrong.

But such is the state of greed in mankind..


This too I agree on some nuclear plants I work in the pay starts at $22.00 per hour to build scaffolds at others I make over $75.00 to do the same job.
So why is this?

It is according to how much the union can strong arm the company.


But I get it, you are just one of those, who buys the BS, fox dishes out...come to think of it..we should be turning that idiotic phrase back on you, about the kool aid!


Nope I actually would vote Libertarian if the party was big enough. I do not believe either of the big two dems and GOP is the best.

I do believe the GOP is the much lesser of two evils so I vote that way.

So your assumption that I am a kool aid drinker is very fallacious.
There is much more kool aid drinking on the liberal side than any other.

Obozos energy plan is to make the sources we use now cost so much more that his green energy is comparable. That is him and his own peoples words.

When a Governor can do more within a state to make the economy better and POTUS has failed to do so in three years you need to look at why that is the case.


Energy: When gas prices hit $4 a gallon in 2008, candidate Barack Obama said it was due to previous failed energy policies. Now that prices are heading still higher, President Obama calls it progress.

Already, pump prices are higher than they've been in previous years, suggesting they will top $4 soon and possibly reach an unprecedented $5 this summer.

President Obama is starting to notice the political implications. So he sent Robert Gibbs — now a top campaign adviser — out to tell the public not to worry.

"Just on Friday, the Department of the Interior issued permits that will expand our exploration in the Arctic," Gibbs said Sunday. "Our domestic oil production is at an eight-year high, and our use of foreign oil is at a 16-year low. So we're making progress."

"Progress" isn't exactly how Obama described the country's energy picture in 2008, when gas prices were closing in on $4 a gallon. Then, it was a clear sign of "Washington's failure to lead on energy," which was "turning the middle-class squeeze into a devastating vise-grip for millions of Americans."

"For the well-off in this country," Obama said in May 2008, "high gas prices are mostly an annoyance, but to most Americans they're a huge problem, bordering on a crisis."

In August that year, he declared rising energy costs to be "one of the most dangerous and urgent threats this nation has ever faced" and that gas prices "are wiping out paychecks and straining businesses."

While Gibbs is right that domestic production has climbed in the past three years, Obama's policies had nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Subscribe to the IBD Editorials Podcast
Oil coming from offshore wells was in the pipeline, so to speak, during the Clinton and Bush years, when those permits were issued. And the oil pouring out of North Dakota is the result of drilling on private lands.

Obama, in fact, has made it clear for years that he has no real interest in boosting domestic production.

When President Bush announced plans in 2008 to lift the moratorium on offshore drilling, Obama dismissed it, saying "it would merely prolong the failed energy policies we have seen from Washington for 30 years."

"Offshore drilling," he said, "would not lower gas prices today, it would not lower gas prices next year and it would not lower gas prices five years from now."

In a big energy speech he gave in August 2008, Obama argued that "if we opened up and drilled on every single square inch of our land and our shores, we would still find only 3% of the world's oil reserves."

And while in office, Obama's done everything he can to limit production — slow-walking offshore permits, killing the Keystone XL pipeline, making it even harder to get oil out of federal lands.

Instead of aggressively expanding oil production, he offered a set of ridiculous alternatives — hugely wasteful "green" energy subsidies, a call for a million electric cars by 2014 and costly fuel economy mandates that won't make a dent in consumption for decades.

With gas prices up 93% since Obama took office, we're seeing just how well this approach works.


Here is the link.

http://news.investors.com/article/601827/201202211837/obama-shifting-talk-on-high-gas-prices.htm

It is what it is and obozo is at the bottom of it.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 512
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 5:17:54 PM
Paul K, consider yourself "high fived"! for your idea, it is a good place to start the discussion.

While I understand politics, I think the whole business of it is dirty and disgusting! That we elect someone send them to washington to represent us and the interests on a national level for our communities or state. We pay them a more than decent wage, give em 500K to run an office for a year. They get a LIFETIME pension, after one term in office and lifetime medical benefits. Unlike you and I who must work hard(well not so much me) and long hours to succeed, they get umpteen weeks off, when the congress is not in session.

Then the perversion starts, they join committees and subcommittees, and then are wooed by the very people they are supposed to be regulating and watching out for our interests against. They are fetted, courted and catered to, by lobbyists, corporate titans, and special interests here and abroad. Up until recently(probably even now) they were able to trade securities, that were going to be given sensitive government contracts, and make money on them.

Then they leave office, either turned out by a public fed up with their do nothing approach, or because we liked the other guy more, even though he told us his version of the same lies, they have told for the last 30 years! He then opens an office, or joins a firm on K Street, to lobby FOR the very companies he was supposed to regulate or help keep in check. Now paid in the high 6 figure or millions, depending on his sucess, at helping them get their way.

Against that backdrop, we should be endevouring to get the money out of politics, and also make some reforms at the same time.

While I like Paul's idea to an extent, and might endorse it, if nothing better came along. That still leaves some questions! How would we arrive at a corporate number? We could give them one vote or a $500 contribution, but the right would never abide that. We could give them, whatever number of votes, depending on the number of executives in a given company, they would only make more executives. We could give them a vote or $500 contribution per share, but since Exxon, has 5 BILLION shares, that would defeat the whole purpose of the exercise. What if McDonalds decided there number should be 19 billion because that's how many burgers they have sold?

No to me, this calls for KISS management, Keep It Simple Stupid! No corporations, no unions, no associations,no super PACs, no pacs, no rich guys...just a $500 contribution per person, oh and a requirement that you had to vote in 2 previous national elections. Why should joe average care? He's more interested in voting for the winner of American Idol or Dancing with the stars..then who is president!

Further lets cut out all the superfluous shit, no one should advocate for issues that make one guy look bad and the other more attractive, paid for by special interests! So they look like attack ads, but can be couched in terms of "hey I was just trying to show an issue I have an interest in. Also NO MORE NEGATIVE NONSENSE..no more garbage emails, meant to mislead, no more 'he didn't do this' 'he didn't do that'...just tell me in a positive sense WTF you stand for and what you will do, not the freakin chicken shit garbage of nah nah nu nah nah!

Let 2 guys layout what they will try and accomplish, if they get the office, what they will do if their first set of plans cannot gain pasasage. Who they are, what their qualifications are, and what their core beliefs are. By doing that we will have a basic comparison, of what they will support and may the best man win.

BUT you gotta own your shit..if you say no more abortion, it goes on your agenda, none of this I misspoke nonsense, or I didn't say that, when they did...

NOW THAT WOULD BE FAIR!!! THAT WOULD HELP THE AMERICAN PEOPLE!!!

Oh and no FL's trying to parse words, to get around the law, you break it, the consequences would have to be severe, like 1% of total campaign contributions the first time, the second 5% the third 10%, the foruth 25%, the fifth 50%...the fine to go to pay down the national debt, until such time as it is paid off, then into the general fund.

The law should also be in the format of a constitutional amendment. Not a law these fools down there could monkey with depending on who is in power....

As for my other pal, nice puff piece from IBD! You do realize that the WSJ and IBD, get more than 60% of their advertising from the banking and corporate world? They both cringe everytime they have to say something positive about a democrat. The NY Times can be the same way, going in the opposite direction. Although I will give them props since most times they at least try to present both sides, even if it is a bit biased.

Me, I read all those and a lot more...I try and find sites, that will fact check their sources, so that both sides of an issue are presented.

Finally pal, I'm still waiting on that government website on drilling restrictions you alledge are in place...

As we say in NYC, where I am from...PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 513
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 6:23:28 PM

The more I think of this, the more I think it is genius!!

Well they do say ignorance is bliss..

Though how do you plan on finding out who gave how much, because unless you turn over a supreme court ruling that protects the identity of donors, that is not going to happen.

Also it would mean that the government would have to hire more people to administer and oversee this new program.

Your statement about in today's era of computers shows that you really have no idea what the scope and scale of the task you are asking and or computers.

Also handing all the funding power to the corporations and removing it from the workers who may or may not agree with who the corporation feels like backing is beyond stupid IMO.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 514
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 6:40:18 PM

The POINT that you have so blissfully missed, is that the amount of money donated by large PAC's and unions's and other large entities would be reduced to a small amount, but to realize that point, would take the ability to do some minor math and have the ability to conceptualize, so I understand why you say what you do.

No, you have told an employee they no longer can support their candidate, their boss will make that choice for them, did you even think about that for one second?




You do know that amounts over a certain number have to be tracked as to who donated them now, don't you?

Guess you have never heard of a Super Pac then.




By the way, I am talking about elections in the USA, not Canada, which may be part of the reason for your confused state.

Does not matter what country you are talking, your plan makes no sense, and only would add more government, but if you are for more government and new agencies and departments, then all the lawyers that will be to be involved to craft and pass the legislation.

Then the legal fees to do with the number of lawsuits filled on behalf of citizens, have at it.

Do you even fathom the idea of telling a citizen, sorry you can not contribute because your company is going to do that in your behalf.

So I will assume you have not thought your cunning plan all the way through, or you would rather have corporations having a higher % of control with regards to elections.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 515
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 6:40:30 PM

Finally pal, I'm still waiting on that government website on drilling restrictions you alledge are in place...

As we say in NYC, where I am from...PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!


There is plenty out there about it several court decisions overturning the drilling restrictions and then obozo using his executive powers to try and stop it.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R41132.pdf

You are just ticked because you have no debate points and you know I am right!
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 516
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 7:59:27 PM
Ya know, there is no reasoning with the unresaonable..I guess the others are right, and a troll is a troll is a troll!!

"You are just ticked because you have no debate points"

No I am ticked because you waste my time and energy. You are a massive liar, who simply has a political agenda, does piss poor research, and has no facts or a shred of credibility, with anyone here who is serious, and wishes to debate issues of importance.

Your lies have been dispelled so many times, they are not worth citing. Your that guy who sits on a bar stool and while people talk about serious issues injects things like "your mama" and then when rebuked retorts with "your mama wears combat boots"! Because although you want to participate in the discussion, you have little to nothing to add.

I will not further waste my time on your inane, right wing sponsored facts. This will be my last post commenting on your drivel. I would hope and suggest, that others pay you no mind as well. I know you have a right to post, and children being children, will inject your invectives into what is a serious discussion.

To begin with Curry L Hagerty, wrote a book on the Horizon Deep Water disater. While I couldn't find his political leanings, I am bothered by his K Street office address, as that is where all the lobbyists have theirs, among them many of the lobbyists for the oil industry. He wrote this as part of the CRS, or Congressional Reseacrh Service, a research resource for congress with a $100 million budget. Now I have no idea who there hired him, nor whether it was a partisan member of congress, who asked for the report.

BUT on page 1 of his report he says and I quote "No portion of the Federal OCS has a permanent moratorium on oil and gas leasing and development while some are under temporary bans".

On the very next page he says "The President established an executive moratorium on oil and gas leasing in the Bristol Bay area of the north Aleutian Basin of Alaska. This constraint on OCS leasing activity runs through June 30th, 2017 and is the ONLY executive moratorium currently in force."

So much for your facts! Since the coastal area of the United States is 94,122 miles, and the area in question is less than 5,500 miles in total all the way out to the 12 mile limit of international waters, it hardly constitutes some vast area restricting the expansion of drilling rights.

Since the restriction is based solely on salmon spawning streams and areas, it would seem like a good idea, except maybe you like your salmon with an injection of some WD 30 when you eat it!

So please save your vitriol for someone else, the only thing you seem to be able to do is call the president obozo. Not unlike the "your mama", I guess that you must rely on that kind of thing.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 517
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 8:08:44 PM
I think someone is pissed because I posted what they asked for.

Bottom line is I showed that obozo has done everything he can to stop drilling.

He has been met with court rulings that have said you can't do that. He then creates any reason he can to slow it as much as possible.

If my posts are lies why have I also posted many sources to back my facts you are the one that rants and wants people to just believe in the anointed one!

Get over yourself. I heard they have a new flavor of kool aid ready....obozoberry....LMAO
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 518
view profile
History
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 8:45:19 PM
What'd be wrong with putting more diesel engines in vehicles? Diesel is more expensive but I think diesels get better mileage? I'm not sure about that but here is where I'm going.

I read, and saw some folks making a type of biodiesel out of algae. One guy was using sewage water to grow this algae. This stuff had more raw oil pound for pound in it than soybeans and other type of vegetable oil seedcrops used to produce biodiesel. Geez, I would think some entrepreneur out there would be able to combine biodiesel and the corn ethanol gasoline additives to possibly come up with a diesel that would be cold weather friendly?

These algae feedstocks could possibly be refined in our present refineries as would petroleum based diesel is currently? Saving having to use crude oil based feedstocks for the making of diesel?

I have a lot of question marks above because it's just an idea and I'm not even sure if it'll work. I work in refineries and I know a suitable feedstock, now crudeoil is needed. The algae idea is just another renewable source that could be used to make diesel.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 519
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 8:50:39 PM

What'd be wrong with putting more diesel engines in vehicles? Diesel is more expensive but I think diesels get better mileage? I'm not sure about that but here is where I'm going.

I read, and saw some folks making a type of biodiesel out of algae. One guy was using sewage water to grow this algae. This stuff had more raw oil pound for pound in it than soybeans and other type of vegetable oil seedcrops used to produce biodiesel. Geez, I would think some entrepreneur out there would be able to combine biodiesel and the corn ethanol gasoline additives to possibly come up with a diesel that would be cold weather friendly?

These algae feedstocks could possibly be refined in our present refineries as would petroleum based diesel is currently? Saving having to use crude oil based feedstocks for the making of diesel?

I have a lot of question marks above because it's just an idea and I'm not even sure if it'll work. I work in refineries and I know a suitable feedstock, now crudeoil is needed. The algae idea is just another renewable source that could be used to make diesel.


I like the idea and I have seen a guy making bio-diesel from old oil collected from restaurants. Not sure how much algae it would take to make a gallon.

However if it is feasible and can make money I am sure someone out there will be investing in it.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 520
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 9:35:24 PM

I posted that Federal Gas Tax is actuallly $0.18 a gallon in 2012.

If both of those comments were true, then it would have meant the federal gas tax actually went down in 2012 which I was trying to point out, but since you were wrong, it was actuallly idental both years.

If both comments were actually true, then it would have meant that Federal Gas Tax


I also said I had mistakenly inverted the numbers for state and federal however the money the government collects is still the same amount.

I have admitted my mistake. In message #623
Even if I did invert the state and federal numbers the facts is both make more than the oil companies you try and demonize!


You have yet to explain your snafu.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 521
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 9:54:50 PM

^^^Read it again, and you'll find your snafu is also mine. Like I said, if you were right the first time, then my comments to you would have made sense....obviously not a lie, if I took you at your word. But don't worry, I won't hold it against you. ;)


So then you admit my facts are sound yet you try and call me out on a mistake of inverting the words state and federal.

Nice.

I guess when you can't win on the points of debate a hallow victory that shows we all are human is better than nothing.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 522
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/11/2012 10:33:36 PM
Oh, the irony, it buuuuuuuuuuuurns. Nothing I say will ever mean a thing to you, so I guess I'll just drop out here.....have fun.


Actually I have agreed with you on one thread I forget which one.

Don't drop out if you have debate points lets hear them just don't be addled when they are rebutted.


I obviously saw you admitting to the inversion AFTER I made my comment by the gas price going down because of Obama, which was also a snark, because I ALREADY know gas taxes had not changed. You screwed up first, and that's that.


I admitted it when I saw the error. what does it matter whom made a mistake first? Are we in grade school?
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 523
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/12/2012 5:33:32 AM
funny to see liberals argue the gas prices are going down because of obama and then on the other hand say that the President has no control over gas prices... either way gas prices are still way too high about twice is high as when he took office
 unYOUsual
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 524
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/12/2012 10:41:02 AM
maybe..but they have stayed high for pretty much all of Obamas term....they were $1.80 or so per gallon when Obama took office.... the major difference between Bush and Obama is that Obama wants high gas prices....Green agenda more important than citizen welfare
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 525
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/12/2012 10:56:33 AM

the major difference between Bush and Obama is that Obama wants high gas prices....Green agenda more important than citizen welfare

If you do not understand that a green agenda is for just that, citizens welfare, then you clearly do not understand anything other than what they tell you to think on cable tv.

Unless you can show a direct correlation between the cost of gas at the pumps and any clean energy policies that have been created in the past 3 years.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 526
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/12/2012 11:52:57 AM

If you do not understand that a green agenda is for just that, citizens welfare, then you clearly do not understand anything other than what they tell you to think on cable tv.


The agenda would not need to be there if the market could use "green energy" it would just be a part of the market.

I looked at solar panels for my 500 sq ft home......The cost $40.000,00 my electric bill is around $125.00 a month.

It would take me 320 months just to break even on the investment. That is 26.67 years. Now factor in the cost of replacing batteries and solar panels as needed and it is just not feasible.

In other words it will cost more to use the "free" solar energy.


Unless you can show a direct correlation between the cost of gas at the pumps and any clean energy policies that have been created in the past 3 years.


No problem when gas went to $4.00 Bush lifted the moratorium on drilling gas prices started to fall all the way to $1.84 a gallon.

Then obozo put the moratorium back and gas prices went up and has stayed up ever since.

Like it or not the blame for the high gas prices are obozos.

He said he wanted high energy prices and he got them.
 OyVay...
Joined: 7/15/2011
Msg: 527
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/12/2012 1:05:23 PM
Here we are 3 pages later at the plenty of lies thread!

Please quote source, time and date where Obama said he wanted "high energy prices...LIAR!

I already dispelled your claim of 40K for solar panels, I checked and found several outfits that would do such a job for 20-22K. You also fail to take into account tax abatements, and rebates, in your 320 months again LIAR!

Your own source and I quoted from it 2 pages ago, said there is "ONLY" one small moratorium in place...still LIAR!

It would be funny if you had one fact. In a battle of wits, you are totally disarmed!
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 528
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/12/2012 1:12:18 PM

It would take me 320 months just to break even on the investment. That is 26.67 years. Now factor in the cost of replacing batteries and solar panels as needed and it is just not feasible.

In other words it will cost more to use the "free" solar energy.

and if you actually understood that it is that way because the oil and coal companies get massive subsidies and the solar industry gets a pittance in comparison then you would understand why that is the case.

So the government should be investing in future technologies to help create infrastructure and development and then you would see the cost go down, but for some reason there seems to be this movement that only wants to give breaks to industries that are already making billions and not move forward.


But hey if you like big corporations being able to monopolize the market with old tech and screw you over at the pumps that is your right, but just make sure that you are heavily invested on oil and coal because if you think you will get a break at the pumps because of who is in office you really do not understand how the market works.
 laughingatliberals
Joined: 10/11/2011
Msg: 529
are the gas prices killing you yet
Posted: 6/12/2012 1:16:36 PM
Please quote source, time and date where Obama said he wanted "high energy prices...LIAR!


How about a video of him saying it! Now who is the LIAR?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma1gwZYw1cY




In another clip from the same January 2008 interview with the San Francisco Chronicle in which Barack Obama promised to bankrupt anyone foolish enough to build coal-burning power plants, he also made an interesting admission about his entire energy plan. Obama told the editors that his policies would make energy prices “skyrocket” as the energy industry passed along the exorbitant costs of his cap-and-trade policy:


http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/02/obama-ill-make-energy-prices-skyrocket/

I already dispelled your claim of 40K for solar panels, I checked and found several outfits that would do such a job for 20-22K. You also fail to take into account tax abatements, and rebates, in your 320 months again LIAR!


Look into the quality of the lower priced units they will not only not do the job but will not last making the cost even more.

As I said I did the home work on this I went to a solar installers and got the truth from them the lower cost systems are crap.

You my friend are just frustrated because you see the end of the anointed one coming!

**********************************************************


and if you actually understood that it is that way because the oil and coal companies get massive subsidies and the solar industry gets a pittance in comparison then you would understand why that is the case.


I have already shown that the subsidies the oil companies get is from the collection of taxes for the government that are more than the oil companies profits three times over.

Get real.


So the government should be investing in future technologies to help create infrastructure and development and then you would see the cost go down, but for some reason there seems to be this movement that only wants to give breaks to industries that are already making billions and not move forward.


I disagree the free market should be doing research and development for the future energy supplies that way we don't waste billions of tax payers dollars on companies like Solyndra.


But hey if you like big corporations being able to monopolize the market with old tech and screw you over at the pumps that is your right, but just make sure that you are heavily invested on oil and coal because if you think you will get a break at the pumps because of who is in office you really do not understand how the market works.


We will see come January when Mr. Romney takes office.

If the Governor of Wisconsin can make such a difference with sound policies in 18 months within that state. I can't wait to see what a POTUS can do with sound policies.
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