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 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 35
Drugs in profilePage 4 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
You really need to grow up little boy and realize that others probably have far more to lose in their lives than you do. As a single parent I CANNOT even entertain the possibility of putting myself in a situation that could jeopardize my ability to support my child. In my field of work, without a squeaky clean criminal record, I CANNOT work. Are you seriously suggesting it wouldn't be that bad?! You may be willing to risk your future but I am not. I did not put myself through university for six years (as a single parent, mind you, when my daughter was still but an infant!) to work in a job I love and then throw that away for a lay with some stoner. If I were to get arrested for anything, I would not be able to work. It's just not worth it.

Studies have proven me wrong? So you're suggesting that people go right from being drug free to snorting crack without doing any other drugs in between? How many brain cells have you killed that you seriously believe this?!

And hell YES I believe people have an OBLIGATION to tell others things (or as you put it, their "darkest secrets") before meeting IF those secrets will affect the life of the other person. How would you feel if you were dating a woman and all of a sudden, several weeks in, she tells you she has a kid (or two or three kids) she hadn't mentioned? It's called honesty. Try it sometime. I don't look at it as being secrets, rather as allowing others to make informed decisions about whether or not they want to become involved in our lives. Oh, and BTW, your examples don't really work here do they because whether someone was raped or beaten is not going to affect my life with them. These are things that happened IN THE PAST. What is important to me is what they are doing in their present. This is part of the person and the life they lead at this particular point in time.

You have this tendency to jump to things being all or nothing. Things aren't as black and white as you are choosing to see them. I never said I expect someone to tell me every last detail about their lives and history before meeting. What I DID say, was that I do expect them to tell me things that could affect my life if we got involved. That is: marital status, whether or not they have children, beliefs on drinking alcohol, smoking, criminal behaviour, and YES drug usage. If you're that insecure about these things in your life, that's your issue, not mine. I would suggest that if you feel you can't be upfront about these things, then you have a problem. I don't look at them as "secrets", but as key points of who we are as people. I know where I stand on these issues and if someone has a problem with me being upfront and asking questions about these things, then I'm not interested in getting to know them.

As I've said before, frankly I don't give a rat's ass if you (or anyone else, for that matter) chooses to smoke pot or do any other sort of drug, BUT if you do, I know that you are not compatible with me and my values and so I won't consider any sort of relationship with you. I see it as a matter of having respect for others' rights. I would never waste a man's time by seeing him without letting him know from the get-go that I have a child, simply because I KNOW that many men don't want to date women with children. I respect their rights to say they aren't interested for that reason. Are you seriously so arrogant to think that others' rights to make an informed choice to date you (knowing your view on these things) are not important?

Absolutely I would consider someone a liar if their profile says they don't do drugs yet they smoke pot. Pot is a drug. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. If you do it, yet say you don't, what does that make you?....a liar. I've known enough liars in my past, have no interest in knowing more.
 velopedian
Joined: 11/4/2009
Msg: 36
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Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/21/2010 9:55:35 AM
the whole concept of "gateway drug" is also propaganda. those who are are inclined to use alcohol, caffeine or pot are just more likely to be inclined towards trying something else. the same as someone who engages in one extreme sport, moves onto another... say a rock climber who decides to try to base jumping. both are risky behaviours, but not all rock climbers will become base jumpers. just like not all caffeine users will end up as crackheads.

everyone is allowed their preferences(be they mild or extreme)... about using or being around someone who does use intoxicants of any type, for me it's tobacco. to start nitpicking about what drugs the drugs question is referring to, is kinda silly. someone saying i don't think pot is any worse than alcohol(and just for the record, i think alcohol is worse), so i don't consider it a drug, is only playing with words. give me a break, that's logic worthy of a third rate politician. we're all supposedly semi-mature adults, we all know what pof means by that question... give it an honest answer.

barefoot, to expect someone to give their life history before meeting, is a bit much though. yes there is something in everybody's past that a prospective partner needs to know, but there's a time and place for everything.

whether someone was raped or beaten is not going to affect my life with them

as their partner whether or not someone was raped or beaten sure as hell will affect your life with together. something like that causes such a profound change in a person that, unless you're just going to walk away from them, you will have to deal with it. but that is also information that they probably aren't going to serve up before getting to know you. so after dating for 3-4 weeks someone opens up to you about being abused, do you dump them for not telling you sooner? or do you try to support them?

as was mentioned before, why is it that people with the no drugs restriction contact people who do use them? is it a coverup? is it a control issue? we still haven't heard a reply to that part of the equation.

and just why is the question about using drugs listed between the questions about having and wanting children?
 velopedian
Joined: 11/4/2009
Msg: 37
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Posted: 1/21/2010 3:15:28 PM
i do understand gateway, a concept used by anti-drug administrations to scare people. but since the majority of marijuana users have previously used caffeine, alcohol and/or tobacco, that would make pot the second step down the path to moral ruin and therefore on the other side of the gate. but why is that nobody ever refers to tobacco/alcohol use as the gateway?

i said in my previous post, just because the tendency for a behaviour is there, does not mean it's going to be acted upon.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 38
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/21/2010 5:35:23 PM
I NEVER said that I expected someone to give me their entire life history before meeting them. What I did say is that I expect people to be honest and tell about things that are important such as: marital status, whether or not they have children, whether they smoke or not, whether they do drugs or not, etc.... Please point out to where I EVER stated that I expect an entire life history. That was another user misreading what I said.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 39
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/21/2010 5:41:30 PM
STOP with the "gateway" BS. If you really want to get into the "true" definition of gateway for abusers(of anything) go wayyyyyyyyy back into the early years of upbringing. There,,,,you will truely find your "gateway",,,,and why some do things,,,and some don't. You'll also be surprised that even there,,,you will find why some follow BS and some don't.

Truely amazed of so many people that don't touch the stuff,,,have never experinced any form of drug use at all,,,,but quite the experts and throwing generic statements around as if it was "truth". The "gateway" arguement has been around since "reefer madness" was introduced to us,,,to scare us away from the evil weed. Obviously it's work on some. Please thou,,,,don't try it with those know better.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 40
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/21/2010 6:02:32 PM
I haven't done drugs, but have SEEN it happen to others that pot has led to more serious drug usage. I'm not saying that every person who does weed will end up addicted to meth or coke, but that generally, those who are addicted to meth and coke, USUALLY did weed first. Just because someone may not have done it themselves, doesn't necessarily mean that they haven't experienced it first hand with people in their lives.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 41
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/21/2010 6:14:49 PM
It ain't the weed that gets me to do the meth,crack,herion or whatever. It's their past. That IS the "gateway". Did ya ask your "experinces" if they drank before they "puffed"????? And before they drank alcohol,,,,what was it that led them to take their first sip??????? Look back far enough you will find your answer and reasons for "abusers".
 velopedian
Joined: 11/4/2009
Msg: 42
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Posted: 1/22/2010 10:38:02 AM

Now THAT'S Funny. You know, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean everyone is not out to get you


The danger is this: Over 50 percent of these young addicts started on marihuana smoking. They started there and graduated to heroin; they took the needle when the thrill of marihuana was gone (Boggs Act Hearings, 1951: 206).



Our younger people usually start on the road which leads to drug addiction by smoking marihuana. They then graduate into narcotic drugs-cocaine, morphine, and heroin. When these younger persons become addicted to the drugs, heroin, for example, which costs from $8 to $15 per day, they very often must embark on careers of crime ... and prostitution ... in order to buy the supply which they need (Congressional Record, 1951: 8197-8198).

in the 50's it was called the "stepping stone" theory and was brought up at the boggs act hearings, the first time marijuana was included with narcotics. but i guess it's only my paranoia...

ot- we meet someone in public... while standing in a line, waiting for a bus, etc... and start chatting. how offended would we be if they started asking something as personal as this in the first 5 minutes? yet we expect complete strangers to supply us with this information, and will reject them out of hand for a simple wrong word.
 velopedian
Joined: 11/4/2009
Msg: 43
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Posted: 1/22/2010 12:41:02 PM
and the so name calling begins...

considering that pretty much every time someone does say something bad about marijuana, it is part of an anti-drug campaign, what else do you expect "potheads" to think? both sides can be totally unreasonable in their views, but things are never that black and white... contrary to what the pro's say, like any drug, there is a danger of abuse. and contrary to the anti's, what about the proven benefits of medicinal marijuana? do you reject someone who has a prescription for marijuana to deal with glaucoma?

as i said earlier we are all entitled to our preferences- i can't deal with smokers- but we sometimes seem to be too quick to condemn others for what could be relatively minor things. i might have 3-4 tokes a year, probably less, but because of that one word-socially- on my profile, i can't contact a majority of women. unreasonable? not at all, they're entitled. but ask any drug user on this site, and they will tell you that someone with that restriction has contacted them. so why is that the same people who prevent drug users from contacting them, turn around and contact drug users?

yes it is a dating site, and yes we want information about prospective matches. but you missed the point i was trying to make about randomly meeting someone... isn't that random person also a prospective match? are we not filling out the form, so to speak, while talking with them? and for those of us that it matters to, just when do you bring up the subject of drug use?

the only time i've ever heard the gateway term used in a dr.'s office or pharmacy, has been in magazines. usually de-bunking it.

on the other hand rbg... looking at their control of the alcohol and tobacco markets, i guess we can agree on the governments being purveyors of drugs. rather hypocritical purveyors imho.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 44
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/22/2010 4:54:28 PM
I find it amusing that you are using a study that talks about alcohol use and pot use to say that pot is not a gateway drug to heavier substances (ie. cocaine, heroin, meth, etc...). Nowhere in what you quoted did it talk about that. No one is saying that it doesn't necessarily start with alcohol, but that marijuana usage almost always comes before the usage of heavier drugs.

Furthermore, a study of only 200 some-odd people is not generally considered large enough to be an accurate scientific study. To get truly accurate results, one must have a large sample group (in to the 1000s often).

Oh, and it does say in my profile that I don't want people who do drugs: right where it says that if you do them, you can't contact me! This is what the issue is -- that some people (including, it would seem, you) think that marijuana usage doesn't count as drug use and think it's ok to lie in the section asking about usage and say you don't just so that you can contact whomever you want despite their wishes that they say they don't want someone who does drugs. If someone's profile says they don't want you to contact them if you use drugs, then DON'T CONTACT THEM!
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 45
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/22/2010 5:27:32 PM

If someone's profile says they don't want you to contact them if you use drugs, then DON'T CONTACT THEM!


Ah,,,sorry to warn ya,,,but here in the pond it doesn't matter what ya say you want,,,especially to pot smokers,,,cause ya know,,,they are not so bright.For example,,,,I've numerously warned the tupids not to contact me,,,,they still do. I've constantly have had on my profile "drug user",,,yet the tupids that don't want one,,,,still contact.
I'm still trying to figure out how in God's name the tupids became that tupid,,,,if they don't even partake in the puffing. At least if they did,,,,they would have an excuse. It's one of the added bonus' of filling out your "do not wants" on our profiles. You'll learn quite quickly,,,that a lot do not read and comprehend very well.

If I was a real priack,,,I'd take my "drug user" answer off,,,meet a ton of the tupids and embarass the phuck outta them,,,,but I'm not that kinda guy. Actually,,,hold on,,,I have been known to be that kinda guy. Cripes,,,,I forgot what the hell my point was gonna be,,,,,again. Damn green stuff.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 46
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/22/2010 7:52:25 PM
You are wrong, stop digging yourself deeper---stop assuming stuff because you had the bad judgment to date a junkie


If you had half an ounce of comprehension about anything I have said in previous posts, you would have understood when I said he started doing it AFTER our child was born. He was not a junkie when I met him, was not when we were dating, was not when we had a child or throughout the pregnancy, then AFTER the child was born, started smoking pot and progressed from there. This was also WHY the relationship ended.

Sorry, I don't believe I am wrong on this. You and I simply have a difference of opinion. Just because you seem to be too narrow minded to actually LISTEN to what anyone else has to say doesn't mean that they are wrong. You have taken everything anyone says on here COMPLETELY out of context and jump to conclusions. Not my fault if you want to act like an ignorant prick.

It is your OPINION that marijuana is less dangerous than caffeine. Personally I think this is the biggest crock of shit I've heard in a while. Do you honestly believe that someone who has never done coke before is going to up and do it because they had a cup of coffee that morning?! By what twisted logic do you believe that having a cup of coffee or a glass of pop is worse than lighting up a doobie? When was the last time you heard of someone holding up a 7-11 for a cup of coffee? How about so they can get money to buy their drugs? Like it or not, caffeine users are not breaking the law, whereas those who do drugs are.


Not "generally" considered large enough? Citation, please? This isn't a Phase III medical trial, this is a test of the construct of "gateway drugs"


Get yourself some more education little boy. If you've ever taken any sort of course in sciences then you'd already KNOW that this is true. If I ask 4 people their experiences, then could you say I have an accurate inference for all people? The larger the sample size for ANY sort of trial or study, the more accurate the results are said to be.


And we go in circles again---marijuana is a drug with a use profile less dangerous than caffeine


So then you ADMIT that marijuana is a drug! Therefore, anyone who does it and does not check YES for using drugs is a LIAR! It's not a matter of how dangerous you may think it is or is not, IT IS STILL A DRUG! Where is YOUR citation, BTW, to prove that caffeine is more dangerous that pot?

I never said I believed you to be doing coke or heroin, but I do believe you to have a very immature view of the world and jump to conclusions. You also seem to have very little respect for others if you honestly believe that they don't have a right to limit who can contact them based on not wanting to get involved with people who do drugs. It is not your decision to make. It is up to each individual if they want to get involved with someone who does it. What the hell do you think gives you the right to disregard what others want in their own lives?!

So you don't want to date someone who "uses" caffeine! (Good luck with THAT, btw). So you should have the right to screen based on that,. yet to hell with what everyone else wants to screen for? Can you say "hypocrite"?
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 47
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/23/2010 12:31:10 AM
Who the **** do you think you are to criticize my parenting?! I am a damn good mother tyvm. I have stated in previous posts that we do not use those "other drugs", as you put it, in my home. I do not use OTC medicines generally (No, not even tylenol), I VERY rarely have caffeine in any respect (1-2 cups of coffee/tea a week, MAYBE, and that's stretching it), and have (maybe) one or two glasses of wine a year (in fact, the last time I drank was a glass of champagne for new year's eve 2008. I have NEVER said I have a "casual" attitude towards ANY drugs whatsoever. I said that I don't think caffeine to be as bad as pot, but that doesn't mean I think overuse of it is ok either. I am very conscious of what I put into my and my child's body. I am not "feeding into the paranoia". I DO NOT WANT ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES AROUND MY CHILD! So DO NOT assume anything about me being one of "those parents" as you want to call me. You know****shit about my life and your assumptions only prove you to be the presumptuous ***hole that you are. I never take cough syrup or no-doz (in fact, until you mentioned it here, I've never even heard of it), because I do not believe in going through life with my mind fogged up by drugs of any type.

As far as the studies: I don't need them -- I have PERSONAL experience having seen what it has led to in people (not just the ex, btw) that I know. I have NEVER said that I think that pot leads to alcohol abuse, or whatever the hell you may think I was talking about, BUT that pot is USUALLY the first step towards harder drugs (coke, heroin, etc...). I was asking you to show me your studies to refute THIS claim. I have SEEN it happen.

I'm not against pot because a politician told me I should be. I am an educated woman (in school and in life) and have formed MY OWN opinions on it (which, btw, I have A LOT of post-sec education, I don't need some little pissant online to tell me what a conditional statement is). I have seen it be used as a gateway drug to more serious drugs (E, meth, cocaine) in people I know; I do not believe in altering one's mental state with substances; I am raising my child to live a healthy lifestyle and smoking ANYTHING is not part of that. BTW, did I mention the very smell of pot actually gives me a physical reaction of wanting to vomit? I find the scent repulsive beyond words. Yes, the fact that it is illegal is also a factor for me because of my job. I don't need any study to tell me it's not that bad, because,to me, it is. To me, it is the first step towards a larger problem. To me, it is part of unhealthy lifestyle choices. To me, it shows an obvious lack of judgment and respect for ones' body if you choose to use it. Frankly, I don't care what your views are on it because I know what is right for my own life and for my child's life.

You may think that pot is no big deal, but to me, based on my EXPERIENCE, it is a HUGE deal. I don't want it around my child, and CANNOT put myself in a situation around any sort of drug because of my career. Any sort of arrest would make it impossible for me to work in my field. On the profiles we are given the option to limit who we want to contact us. I have CHOSEN to not have people who do drugs contact me. Pot IS a drug. If you smoke it, yet say you don't do drugs, that is lying. Why the hell, if you see someone doesn't want someone who does drugs to contact them, would you still contact them knowing how they feel? I have EVERY right to not meet someone based on this information. It would be a waste of their time and my own. Plain and simple: if someone is uncomfortable with answering whether or not they use drugs (including pot), then I won't meet them. I'm not even going to entertain any sort of relationship with them because of the reasons I've stated above.

Are you serious when you took my comment about people holding up 7-11s for drug money that I meant those who are "only" smoking pot?! And "a junkie always is and has been a junkie"?! WTF, so you're going to consider someone to be a junkie who has never done drugs before just because they might do it in the future? Are we all supposed to be fortune tellers now so that we can tell what someone "could" possibly do in the future?

I will no longer be participating to this thread. I find your rush to judgment and taking things out of context to be tiresome. We'll have to agree to disagree on this. You are perfectly free to go ahead and waste your time on people you know you won't be compatible with because of KEY differences in morals, but I choose not to. Life is far too short to throw it away on someone I would never consider a relationship with.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 48
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/23/2010 4:44:58 PM
Ok I have walked away and calmed down and will apologize for my rant earlier. I was frustrated that I felt everything I said was being taken out of context and turned around to make me seem irrational. It was like you only listened to part of what I said, then jumped to a conclusion about it. You should understand, though, that if you go around insulting people as parents, then you're going to have to expect to hear their anger because of it.

When I said "usually" it was because I recognize that any argument that starts with "always" is, by definition, fallacious. There ARE exceptions to every rule; I was only acknowledging that. When someone says marijuana is a "gateway" drug, they are not saying that everyone that smokes pot will move on to harder drugs, but that of those who use harder drugs, most of them started using drugs with pot. I am sure there are many people who do pot that lead production lives. This does not, however, mean that I want them around me or my child. Just as you choose not to have those who abuse caffeine around you.

We all have the right to live our lives as we choose. We do not have the right, however, to impose our choices on others or expect everyone to agree with those choices. I believe I have every right to not meet people who do drugs because I don't agree with them. It is for this reason that I completely understand why a man may choose not to contact me because I am a single parent. It was my choice to have a child, but I don't have the right to trick someone into getting to know me under the guise that I don't have a child. It is all about having respect for others to make INFORMED decisions about who they want to go out with. Everyone has deal breakers, whether it be alcohol use, smoking, having children, weight, height, or yes, drug use (including pot). It is for this reason that POF has these things on our profiles: so that people can eliminate prospective suitors based on their deal breakers. I expect that people tell the truth in those sections and believe that if you use pot then you are using drugs and lying on your profile.

I am not in the habit of just introducing anyone into my or my child's life. I will screen people I know I won't be compatible with long term because I don't want people coming in and out of my child's life. I have worked very hard to provide a stable home for her. It is this, among many other things, that makes me a wonderful parent.

Ultimately, this thread was not about the "evils" of marijuana, it was about users' rights to screen for it and people lying in their profiles about it. I screen drug users because I don't want them in my life. If you lie about pot usage so that you can meet me, how could you honestly think that the lie would be a good foundation for a relationship? I just don't believe in wasting time getting to know people who possess my deal breakers. Isn't that why we're all here in the first place? To be able to weed out those with our deal breakers, so as to find ones who don't possess them? It's about compatibility. Maybe at your age and status you feel that you have all the time in the world to waste on people when you know it can never lead anywhere, but I do not share that view. I want to be able to pick out the "weeds" so that I can find the "flowers", and frankly, I don't see anything wrong with it.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 49
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/25/2010 7:57:03 AM
You do have the right to live your life as you choose. This does NOT mean, however, that there won't necessarily be consequences for your choices. Saying that one has the right to make choices and saying there are no consequences for those choices are two different things. I stated the former, not the latter. I stand by what I said.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 50
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Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/25/2010 11:27:37 AM

Good thing one of my good friends got to a hospital before he had a heart attack from caffeine


I am glad your friend got to the hospital too but come on. You are trying to say that Caffeine is worse than POT. Be Serious.

I have know 3 people that have died from things they did while they were high and many more that were either injured. My first friend died while he was extrememly high and put a huge handfull of candies into his mouth and choked on them and the other 3 people there were also sooo high that they laughed and watched him die. The second person decided to drive while high, fell asleep and drove into an wall at high speed. The 3rd died because he was soooo high that he ate peanuts, that he had an extrememly alergic reaction to, even though he knew that that would happen (at least he knew when he was sober). I do not know anyone who has had anything from Caffeine (although I do know that those high caffeine energy drinks are stupid). 90% of the population drinks caffeine and you get almost nothing happen. If the sample size is that large you are going to get a few instances of anyting. You would get it from Carrots too if you really wanted to do a study on the bad effects of carrots. Caffeine in large doses in bad. In a coffee to give you a little extra alertness is not a problem.

I do agree that people who abuse legal so called drugs (like drinking cough syrup for fun or using sleeping pills when not prescribed) are worse than pot but you have to have respect for someone who does not want to date a person who does pot.

I really don't care if someone smokes the odd joint at a party but if they are smoking at a regular level (weekly) they should say it in there profile as a statement at least.
 mcalgary
Joined: 11/10/2009
Msg: 51
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Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/25/2010 11:37:37 AM
One last thing. I am getting so tired of people using alchohol and now caffeine as a reason that Pot is OK. Alchohol is not OK in large enough doses to cause you to be drunk ( I personally say no more than 2 small glasses of wine for myself). Caffeine is not OK if being used as a drug (caffeine pills, high caffeine energy drinks). So pot is still not OK. The big difference between Pot and the others is that the others can be used not as a drug but as a beverage with no effects (note the small doses). I can have a glass of wine with dinner and it is just that a beverage. Pot is only smoked for one reason and that is to get high. There would be no reason to smoke post just for the burning smoke feeling in your lungs. And no Cigarettes are not OK either.

If you want to defend smoking pot as OK than come up with better reasons. They are out there. Just defend it better.
 velopedian
Joined: 11/4/2009
Msg: 52
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Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/25/2010 7:53:54 PM
^^^off the top of my head i can add relief from some of the syptoms of glaucoma to that list, and with a little research there's probably more.

i witnessed the benefits of the medicinal use of marijuana a few years when a close friend was diagnosed with non-hodgkins lymphoma. his doctor readily agreed to the referral that the compassion club needed(strangely enough, with no mention of any gates). different varieties enabled him to eat, sleep and just plain relieve some of the pain of both the cancer and the chemo.

earlier i asked if any of the no drugs folks would reject someone who was legitimately using marijuana for a medical condition, say to relieve the effects of glaucoma, or hep. still waiting for an answer...

btw... congrats on quitting rita, i know how hard it can be. next month will 25 years for me, and pot helped me quit too.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 53
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Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/28/2010 2:28:07 AM
Caffeine - yes, it an cause some adverse reactions. Tobacco - I hope we don't have to deal with the deniers here these days. Alcohol - by FAR the most destructive drug problem in our society, in direct health effects, behavioural results (like driving or shooting) and effects on others (like family and people in the streets).

Almost any prescription drug can cause intoxication that can cause dangerous behaviour.

BUT - the PROHIBITION on marijuana is an immense burden of harm on our society. It funds crime, erodes civil liberties, costs people jobs that let them have a life beyond staying smashed and puts people in Criminal U in prison. And lots more. Not to mention the legal and prison bills.

(By the way, 100% of alcoholics started on milk.)

STATISTICAL SIGNIFICANCE: in a 2-option exclusive study, about a thousand data points provide 95% significance. But you don't need that in initial research looking for trends to study further. 200 cases disagreeing with a hypothesis will usually stop further research on it, or at least most of the funding, despite the 1-in-20 (5%) chance it's wrong.
ED BEAR

Lying still sucks.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 54
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/28/2010 3:57:27 PM
I never said that inequality does not exist in Canada. I am fully aware of it and would never deny that it exists. Just because we don't all start out on the same "rung", as you put it, doesn't mean that we can't all get to the top of the ladder. YES, of course for those who are not as "privileged" it is harder, but that does not mean it's impossible.

As far as the "experience" you think I don't have: I was an unwed mother at a fairly young age. I was not with my daughter's father, yet decided that I was going to do right by my child. When she was less than a year old I started university full-time without receiving financial support from my family or child support from my child's father. (I think these circumstances would qualify me as being on a lower rung than someone say, fresh out of high school, no child, on mommy and daddy's dime.) You know what? I knew what I wanted and worked darn hard to get it. Six years later I hold two degrees and am working and supporting my child (still) all by myself. It is from my experiences that I hold the beliefs I have, not because I lack experience.

If someone wants something bad enough, and are willing to work hard enough, then they can achieve it.
It is rampant in Canada and can influence basic rights, from birth, in ways that someone who has not been subjected to the trials
of "life' on the bottom rung or was lucky enough ( hard work is not always enough!)
There has to be some personal responsibility as well. Yes, we are not born or raised in the same privilege, BUT I do believe that hard work is enough because I have done it. Everyone has trials in their lives. They are simply tests to see how badly we want something. One can CHOOSE to wallow in their crap or they can CHOOSE to rise above it, but people need to stop thinking opportunity is just going to fall in their laps. Sometimes we need to make our own opportunities. And THAT, is a matter of choice that all people have, but few implement.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 55
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/28/2010 6:19:17 PM
It's not a matter of not recognizing others' paths as being different from my own. I see it, I recognize it, I respect that their circumstances are different. HOWEVER, I do believe that if you don't like something, work to change it. We are the ones that have power over where our lives go through the choices we make. Maybe you want to live your life believing that you have no power over what happens in it, but that does not mean that everyone else should have to go through their life believing that as well. Perhaps you do see it as arrogance or inexperience, but I see it as having a POSITIVE outlook on life. Yes, I do believe that if we don't like the cards we are dealt that we are free to move to a different table, so to speak. I refuse to live my life with a defeatist attitude that I have no power to affect change. Where would the world be today if everyone had this attitude? If you don't like something: change it! Instead of blaming everything and everyone else for your problems, try looking in a mirror and realizing the first step towards getting what you want in life lies in the person staring back at you.

So call me arrogant or inexperienced or naive or whatever, but I will STILL look at it as having a healthy self-esteem and view of life and my role in it. I refuse to take the defeatist attitude you two seem to be promoting.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 56
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/28/2010 8:56:48 PM
Of course there are people with disabilities that are going to have a harder time of it, however, I have known several people with various disabilities that strive to be the best they can in life. I am not saying that there are never ongoing challenges in people's lives. Nor am I saying that everyone can get on the same level. I am saying, however, that in most circumstances, save for extreme disability, most people have the ability to affect change in their lives. There are far too many healthy people out there who blame their lives on everyone else and everything else: poor parentage, poor choice in partners, friends, being raised around alcoholism/drugs, events in our pasts, etc... All these things are challenges to be overcome, but not impossibilities. It was to these people I was referring, not those with severe disability or brain damage. I do have a charitable view on life that we all need to help each other, but you can't help those who don't want it either.

The other posters' remarks were about my statement that we all have the right to make our own choices. Now anyone on these boards could argue any point and say, "well that doesn't apply to people with this or that disability, so it must not be true." Do you honestly think that every "rule" will apply to every person at all times? Of course there will be exceptions. Do you honestly need someone, when stating a belief, to say it and then state that, "it only applies to this and that situation, but exception in X situation"? Can we NOT be intelligent people that we need to read something into every little statement someone makes and think it applies to all people?

Let me rephrase then: In the case that someone is able-bodied (although there may be exceptions to this, so see an addendum to find out which physical disabilities will be included in the exception and which are not enough to exclude oneself) and barring severe mental illness (again, see the above statement about an addendum), people have the ability to affect change in their own lives. Choice to wallow in one's crap is still a choice, and therefore, regardless of circumstance, is a matter of personal responsibility.

Do you seriously think people on the forums should chat this way? You're assuming a lot about people without using critical thinking in your judgments (BTW, critical as in not generalizing too much and not as in jumping to conclusions and criticizing others). Of course I recognize that there are people out there who, for not fault of their own cannot physically (or in a very few cases, mentally) affect change. These people deserve our help and empathy. But, barring these few cases, if you choose to continue wallowing in your crap, it's probably because you like the smell of it.
 barefootkitten
Joined: 12/17/2009
Msg: 57
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/28/2010 9:26:16 PM

That is the arrogance and inexperience that she is speaking to.
You tell me I'm arrogant and inexperienced because you don't agree with what I posted so I simply clarified it for you. I'm not angry at all actually. You're the one who took it to a place of generalizing, I simply clarified for you.

Like I said, I still believe people have the right to choice in their lives. If you don't like how your life is going, it's probably because of your choices, and that's something you can't put on others. If you don't like how things are going, then change them! If you don't want people to respond to your posts and clarify things when you misread into them, then don't post generalizations and read too much into things.
 Ed Bear
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 58
view profile
History
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/29/2010 3:01:52 AM
Saying that anyone can conquer any problem or obstacle if they REALLY WANT TO is the same old blame-the-victim crap.

And it's WAY WAYYY WAYYY to far off topic.
ED BEAR
 Mr. Philmcneal
Joined: 9/22/2009
Msg: 59
Drugs in profile
Posted: 1/31/2010 8:43:10 PM
after reading 6 pages of this all I got to say is...

you can never win.

So many arguments related to drugs or religion its almost impossible to convert one another once your raised a certain way or experienced a certain moment/thing.

In the end lets be thankful we don't kill each other :)

As for the topic for drugs in profile, I want to meet more people, so putting NO increases that chances, however, I will bring it up during our conversations to see if it becomes a deal breaker. Bringing up the topic when your late in the relationship is pretty bad as opposed to the first few times of chat.
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