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 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 65
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Curious to know about astrologyPage 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

Coma White- One of us is guilty of a logical fallacy.
You are saying:
Astrology is not real because it can't be proven
If it can't be proven, it isn't real
That's making a statement and then proving it with the same statement, just worded differently.
This is called circular reasoning.............

Circular reasoning (Latin: circulus in probando, "circle in proving"; also known as circular logic) is a logical fallacy in which the reasoner begins with what they are trying to end with.

Edit to add: SO is Rockin' trucker. Read his argument, then reread the definition of circular logic. You'll see it. (I hope)


No, that's not what I said. I said that people are making claims that Astrology is real, but they have zero evidence to back up their claims. Why would we believe something is true if there is no evidence to support it?
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 66
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/14/2016 4:57:00 PM

If astrology is true, how come twins can have completely opposite personalities and habits,


Actually, they don't.
If fact, some twins separated at birth end up with fairly identical lives.

Personally, I like astrology because I have a really neat sun sign symbol - the curvy Leo hook.
I prefer Tarot cards; I'm visually oriented and like pretty pictures.

And, astrology and all those other psychic sciences make about as much sense to me as economics and the wizards of Wall Street or psychology.
 LetitiaLeGrande
Joined: 3/22/2015
Msg: 67
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Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/18/2016 6:16:28 AM
Geminis can be articulate, witty charming and also easily bored and fickle. So you would need to keep him interested with novel activities and stimulating conversations. They often like two of something, either cars, phones, houses,
lovers, jobs, etc. They are usually youthful in outlook and like to keep busy and mobile, in general.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 68
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/18/2016 8:27:01 AM
^^^If you were to replace the word "Gemenis" with "Black People/Oriental People/Jewish", etc., you would be accused of being a racist. So isn't astrology a form of racism if you clump pre-determined, specific characteristics on an entire group of people without knowing every person in that group? Do all mass murderers have the same astrological sign? How about Nobel Prize winners. Do they all have the same sign?
 rockstartrucker82
Joined: 11/22/2015
Msg: 69
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Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/18/2016 7:09:26 PM

Actually, they don't.
If fact, some twins separated at birth end up with fairly identical lives.


The words of someone who's obviously never known a set of twins...
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 70
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/18/2016 8:37:25 PM
^^^
And you think you know this... how?
Crystal ball?

Pfft and a shrug. It doesn't matter to me whether or not you think I've known twins.

However, to answer your earlier question:

Let's end this... If astrology is true, how come twins can have completely opposite personalities and habits, and are attracted to people born during "opposing" times of the year, if they're supposed to all share these similar traits? How come two different people born at the same exact time haven't been interviewed to try to prove that they're the same exact type of person?

If there was ANY truth to astrology, it would be proven already... but there isn't.


Astrology and all that stuff belong in the box in peoples' heads called 'Beliefs and superstitions". If I believe it, it's real and I can prove it to my satisfaction. If it's someone else's beliefs and they are opposed to mine, then it's only superstition no matter how well someone can justify them.

That explains politics and people who believe the world is only 4,014 years old.
 FullMoonGuy
Joined: 3/7/2014
Msg: 71
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/19/2016 1:23:51 PM
The most important thing of all is to know whose house Uranus is in.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 72
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/20/2016 7:21:59 AM

One thing I’ve always wondered, though… why the emphasis on birthdates? Why would the cosmos care one way or the other whether you are in or out of your mother’s body, once you’re already fully-developed?


I agree. An astrologer doing a chart on you would also need to the time you were born and the exact location, for some reason-as if you were born five minutes earlier or later is going to have a bearing on your personality for life. If the location at birth has some sort of bearing on personality traits, how could there be any accuracy when relating to planets or stars that are millions or billions miles away and their relative location at the time of birth? Does that mean if I was born in a hospital 10 or 20 miles from where I was actually born in, I would be different now because of the relationship between some celestial body millions or billions miles away and the exact location of where I was born? And if the exact location of where a person is born has any merit, wouldn't that have to relate to an exact location on another planet or star that supposedly affects the person? How can anyone say you would be different if you were born 25 miles away from where you were born in relation to the location of an entire planet? Like Spock would say, "That's illogical."

IMO, astrology is a religion, where the objective in both cases is to believe in something that could never be proven right or wrong, and relies on blind faith. I wonder if a person was to go to two or more astrologers, if that person would get the same readings at each one of them-like getting a second opinion from a doctor's diagnosis-or would the readings rely on interpretation, which can vary from person to person-like in religion and interpretation of what's written in whatever holy book is used?
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 73
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/20/2016 12:40:13 PM
Just for information...

There is a branch of astrology that deals with asking a question and answering the question based upon the time the question was asked. I understand that you can answer based on the chart of the question itself or combine both the birth chart and the question chart to come up with a more nuanced answer.

I don't count astrology as a religion because there is no 'supreme being' and no rituals (such as praying or special diets) to influence this being in one's favor. I won't debate its 'accuracy' either. For some people astrology works and for some people it doesn't. Sure, it could be self-fulfilling prophecy or it could be bringing awareness to some unnoticed or ignored aspect of life. It could be entering into a meditative state, allowing suppressed thoughts to emerge.

Am I a true believer? No.
But I still find astrology and tarot and meditation and lots of other things very useful in living my life.
Is it paying attention? Zen-like mindfulness? A case of 'you'll see it when you believe it'? Don't know.
I just know that the mind is much, much larger than the brain and not everything in life can be measured on a logic/illogic continuum.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 74
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Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/20/2016 7:47:44 PM

Am I a true believer? No.
But I still find astrology and tarot and meditation and lots of other things very useful in living my life.
Is it paying attention? Zen-like mindfulness? A case of 'you'll see it when you believe it'? Don't know.
I just know that the mind is much, much larger than the brain and not everything in life can be measured on a logic/illogic continuum.


Astrology can be easily tested. It's never produced better results than chance alone. It relies on Barnum statements like: "You're usually shy, but often you can be the life of the party". They apply to everyone.

I remember when James Randi gave everyone the same horoscopes and most said it was very accurate. They realized they all had the same one when they exchanged them. Astrology works by making up nonsense and playing on peoples' confirmation bias.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dp2Zqk8vHw
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 75
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/21/2016 12:06:04 PM
^^^
OK, you don't believe astrology works for you.
Maybe not for anyone.
Nor, presumably, do you find any use in it.
And that's fine.

There's a lot of confirmation bias in the world but I can't call any solicited advice, whether derived by astrology, advice columnist, or by pulling out a book and flipping to a random page (bibliomancy) 'nonsense'.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 76
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Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/22/2016 2:46:34 AM

OK, you don't believe astrology works for you.
Maybe not for anyone.
Nor, presumably, do you find any use in it.
And that's fine.

There's a lot of confirmation bias in the world but I can't call any solicited advice, whether derived by astrology, advice columnist, or by pulling out a book and flipping to a random page (bibliomancy) 'nonsense'.


Why not? It surely is nonsense. It's no more real than throwing salt over your shoulder to get rid of bad luck.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 77
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/22/2016 9:18:53 AM
I wonder if any astrologer would do a reading and say to the person "According to the charts, you're an A-hole." or "According to the charts, you have the tendencies to be a mass murderer. You might want to stay away from guns."

For a reading to have any validity, why wouldn't the parents of who is being charted need a reading as well, since it's the parents who created and raised the person? Wouldn't they factor in on what type of person their offspring turns out to be? Oops-I forgot. There's no room for logic. That would kill the mystique behind things that seem magical.
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 78
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/22/2016 9:53:49 AM
If someone comes to an astrology to have a chart done, then they are looking for some kind of advice or information. Probably in the way of relating to people or finding out why things don't work for them. I mean, I doubt if anyone went to an astrology to decided what kind of car they should buy. So, they are soliciting advice.

And the astrologer goes and spends a couple of hours or days determining all this information.
So, the person decides that there must be some worth since another person is spending all this time and effort on them.
Yes, I know that you can get an insta-chart online in seconds; but astrology is more than the sun sign (i.e. the main sign people associate with themselves when they say 'I'm a Libra). Not only are there signs for every planet and a few large asteroids overlaid on the 12 houses of a chart, the main interactions are the angles between planets as well as a couple of fixed points on every chart. It's why I'm not an astrologer - way too much math for me. Once the chart has been drawn and analyzed, then the astrologer and the questioner begin discussing it, what it means, and how to overcome 'bad' points. Is the value in the chart? Not really. I can do the same thing with a deck of playing cards or a bit of loose tea. The value is in the discussion, in the presentations of various means of action and reaction. The value is in being open to information no matter how it was reached.

For instance:
If the sun is in Aries and Mars in Virgo with a quintile to Mercury, I might suggest that the person is a perfectionist who has little patience for people who make errors. In further discussion, I might point out that sometimes it is miscommunication that causes the errors.
If you want, you can hear "nonsense, nonsense, nonsense, perfectionist with no patience, miscommunication".
Then we can talk about communication, about relating to people in different ways and perhaps writing notes rather than giving verbal instructions.

It some ways astrology and other means of fortune-telling are no different than discussing something with a psychiatrist or taking a personality test. Except an astrologer will not say 'this is pre-ordained' or 'it's your parents' fault'. A chart doesn't say 'this will happen', it merely says 'this could happen if you continue without contemplation'. A chart is simply a moment in time and how that moment relates to one person's life.

Why are linens cheaper in January? Why do statins work better when taken in the evening? Why do car sales happen in May? For some of these you can come up with a valid (and possibly correct) reason. For others you don't know 'why', but that doesn't make the information incorrect.

Anyway, enough for me, I'm off to look through my decks of Tarot cards and maybe do a reading or two.
It's been fun, Coma-white.
See you around.
 Whatsamattababy
Joined: 5/3/2016
Msg: 79
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/22/2016 6:07:38 PM
I always thought behaviour was caused by a combination of genetics and environment. I need to go back to school. Anybody know where I can get a degree in Astrology?
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 80
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/22/2016 6:44:17 PM
And here I thought that was your degree. Or do I have that mixed up with numerology and a minor in voodoo. Or maybe psychology. I don't know, I get them mixed up.
 Whatsamattababy
Joined: 5/3/2016
Msg: 81
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/22/2016 6:49:31 PM
^ Har har. You're sick. And transparent - You're still mad at me because I won't climb into a giant tub of potato salad with you.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 82
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/22/2016 7:19:25 PM
I thought we were still in the negotiation stage. I just figured you were being coy.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 83
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Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/22/2016 9:24:02 PM

It some ways astrology and other means of fortune-telling are no different than discussing something with a psychiatrist or taking a personality test. Except an astrologer will not say 'this is pre-ordained' or 'it's your parents' fault'. A chart doesn't say 'this will happen', it merely says 'this could happen if you continue without contemplation'. A chart is simply a moment in time and how that moment relates to one person's life.


Astrology is completely different from discussing your problems with a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist is familiar with psychological conditions and how to treat them. Astrology has nothing to do with reality. Why would it matter where the stars and planets are at a given time?


Why are linens cheaper in January? Why do statins work better when taken in the evening? Why do car sales happen in May? For some of these you can come up with a valid (and possibly correct) reason. For others you don't know 'why', but that doesn't make the information incorrect.


I think you've lost the plot. January is the best time to buy a lot of things because they're on clearance after Christmas. Statins are taken at night because most cholesterol is synthesized when dietary intake is at its lowest. I'm not a car salesman, but it makes more sense to see an increase in sales right before the summer and graduation time. All of them have perfectly normal reasons. None of them require magical guesswork. What does that have to do with astrology?
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 84
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/23/2016 3:48:40 AM
i'll confess, I thought it was amusing when we found out astrology changed and we all had the wrong sign. then it was that we did have the right sign. or maybe we need two of them.

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/01/13/no-your-zodiac-sign-hasnt-changed/

so, be careful of which astrologer you get. they may not be reading the sky right. but hey, doctors can get things wrong, too, right?
 2ufo
Joined: 2/28/2015
Msg: 85
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/23/2016 2:39:34 PM
Coma White...
I'll go back to my original stance with a shrug.
You get nothing out of astrology.
You don't believe it.
You find no validity or scientific basis for it.
Your experience is individual to yourself.
Other people may or may not get anything out of astrology.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 86
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Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 6/23/2016 2:59:39 PM

Coma White...
I'll go back to my original stance with a shrug.
You get nothing out of astrology.
You don't believe it.
You find no validity or scientific basis for it.
Your experience is individual to yourself.
Other people may or may not get anything out of astrology.


I'm sorry, that's simply not true. That's fine if other people believe in it, but believing in something doesn't make it true. The reason I don't believe in it is because there isn't any evidence to support it. It's not because I get nothing out of it. It's in the same category as superstitions like a black cat crossing your path or throwing salt over your shoulder. I'm still curious why people would think it matters where the stars and planets are when you're born. You experience more gravity from the buildings around you than you get from outer planets.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 87
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Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 11/8/2016 9:25:11 AM

I have noticed that too! An awful lot of Capricorn men on here. I am into astrology and so noticed it perhaps more than most. Maybe there is something about Capricorn men that makes their relationships with women difficult and that's why so many find themselves on here. Maybe because you yourself are a Capricorn you should try dating a different sign though. You can look up which signs you are most compatible with and they do say opposites attract. Amanda.


That's not true. A person's astrological sign means nothing when it comes to dating.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 88
Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 11/8/2016 1:07:33 PM
There are specialty dating sites for all kinds of interests. Is there a dating site for people who believe in astrology-so that people know who to contact and who to stay away from based on people's birthday/sign? If people are going to written off right off the bat, because they were born at the wrong time of the year, that restriction should be in a profile, so not to waste anybody's time.

Foe those into astrology: When did you start to believe in astrology, and was there any incident in your life that made you wonder about the correlation between the position of planets and stars and a person's personality? Or did it just pop into your head one day that the position of heavenly bodies at the time and place a person was born affects their personality?
 LetitiaLeGrande
Joined: 3/22/2015
Msg: 89
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Curious to know about astrology
Posted: 11/9/2016 1:38:56 AM
Capricorn men can have their Venus in Aquarius which is the sign of technologies and modern day sciences
so they may feel comfortable in trying to find lovers online. Now that would be an interesting survey lol! As for who you are compatible with, it is a lot more complex than you will find in cookie cutter astrology books.
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