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 Justscotthere
Joined: 5/19/2007
Msg: 196
When should the woman start paying??Page 7 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)

First meets? Always dutch. That way, there are no expectations on either end.
First dates? Whoever does the asking.
After that? Whoever has money at the time. I don't like to keep score.


We aren't even from the same generation. That is pretty much my philosophy. However I haved payed for a first date and then gone dutch on the second and I have been known in a supposedly dutch situation to swap a $75 theatre ticket for a $25 meal.
 orchidtigress
Joined: 1/18/2007
Msg: 197
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/20/2008 10:39:55 AM
Okay....you need to let her know next time "I would love to take you out to XYZ but sorry, I simply can't afford it."- assuming she is making the suggestions.

If not, then you need to take control and only take her to the posh places once in awhile...not every date....if you do it every date it will become routine and boring for her.

Other option is next time you are making plans - do it together and depending on what it is - ask her what her budget is. Maybe you could split things 50/50, 60/40, 70/30 etc.

Explore Alternatives: For example, if going for dinner...stay in instead and make the date one where you cook a fancy meal together- it is will be more fun! Put some music on, chill some wine, and get a nice movie to enjoy afterwards. You will also be building more intimacy and a memory. :) Also you could go for a picnic etc. If you do need to go out- do brunch or lunch ( which are often better and cheaper than dinner)

You can still treat her on occassion, but do more simple things that show you like her...buy her a single rose and write/print a poem, take her to a playground and push her on a swing, make some hot chocolate and watch the stars cuddled in a blanket etc...Or find some activities that are less expensive that you can do together- go swimming, hiking, etc

I have been wined and dined in 5 star places, which were very nice, but the only memories I can fondly recall are when a guy did something special for me to show he cared in his own way like above.

If she complains about all this either dump her or start clipping coupons- especially 2 for 1 kind and let her know those are the only places you can go. :)
 fly0nthewall
Joined: 12/26/2007
Msg: 198
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/20/2008 11:56:24 AM
And since it won't let me edit my earlier post, I have to add this:

The exception to my "whoever has money at the time" rule is for birthdays. Regardless of who has more disposable income that particular day, you should always treat the other person of you're taking them out for their birthday. No matter what the gender.
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 199
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/20/2008 12:04:37 PM
If you're a man, and you ever expect the woman to pay for the date, you might as well turn your nuts in at the counter and leave the Manhood Club. Dudes pay for dates. If a woman insists on going dutch, then it's classy not to insist on paying for her share. But generally, as the male, you pay for all of the date, and you expect to pay.

Get a grip, and sack up, OP.
 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 200
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/20/2008 1:32:45 PM
Amen Spitfire6844

Mark
 orchidtigress
Joined: 1/18/2007
Msg: 201
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/20/2008 2:50:14 PM
I do agree that whomever asks should pay is the old unwritten rule.....unless just going out as friends or agreed upon otherwise prior to the outing.

If she is not interested in you more than just a friend she has the onus to let you know, thereby rendering all "dating" activities to restricted budget and paying for ones self. If she needs more time to think things over - don't always splurge.
 unattached31
Joined: 7/19/2007
Msg: 202
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/20/2008 9:17:39 PM

i wouldn't go on a second date w a guy that doesn't buy me dinner, but i do offer.


So your litmus test is whether he'll pay even if he isn't obligated: Only the most whipped dogs for you, eh?


i love giving back. for eg, he buys dinner, i buy the movie, or something.


Dinner for two: $50
Movie rental: $5

Oh yeah, totally even... Hmmm, I guess barbie was right... Math is hard, isn't it ladies.


if u need to spend money w her always, say gbye


Given you're single, it would appear the fellas are taking your advice.
 herbigharo32
Joined: 1/10/2008
Msg: 203
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/20/2008 11:19:31 PM
For the first couple of dates, the person who does the asking pays (usually the man). In more established relationships, I would much prefer to split costs 50/50 . The way I look at it is when two people put money into the pot, the couple can go out more often and do better things. One lady I dated for a while, we agreed to put 200 per month onto a charge card that was used exclusively for mutual entertainment. Suffice to say, we had a blast until...... That's a whole new topic.
 2 girls short of a 3some
Joined: 7/10/2007
Msg: 204
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 1:19:48 AM

If you're a man, and you ever expect the woman to pay for the date, you might as well turn your nuts in at the counter and leave the Manhood Club. Dudes pay for dates.


chumps , suckers and desperados pay for each and every date they go on

what your saying by continually paying is

" I am paying for your company to be here at this momment"

dont you think enough of yourself that she should pay for your company now and then

if you dont - you may as just hand over your wallet and finances now -- because sooner or later with the "dudes always pay for dates" attitude ---- you will get taken for EVERYTHING in your life
 2 girls short of a 3some
Joined: 7/10/2007
Msg: 205
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 1:24:00 AM

well i thought that there where equal right or u wanted equal right.... that only included things that u want and that u don't have to pay for....LOL


women

money comming in eg salary etc - yes they want equality

money going out eg dates expenses etc - they want tradition - where the man pays
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 206
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 1:48:37 AM
While a normal person tries to avoid hurting someone's feelings and strife, particularly if someone is also part of a group of friends, the situation you describe is rude. I have a male friend that I get dinner with on a regular basis and occasionally a movie. He is not a couch potato but he is a real homebody so most of the time I call him and suggest we get together.

I did the reach thing for a while and even said something two or three times about having called him and he just looked at me as if I was a bit retarded. I finally flat out said it makes me feel badly that I asked you to dinner and you always pay and he made some joke about my never eating anything, why should I pay (I nearly always have a take-home box unless I remember not to eat all day).

Whether it is because he is old-fashioned and believes the man should pay even out with a friend or it is something nice he can do for me raising three kids by myself while he has just one at home now, I don't know. But the tabs have not been $100 either, something I don't think I could have accepted three times without paying the drink tab or something.

I would just tell her that you want to go but she needs to pay her own way or the whole tab as you are friends and have now picked up everything three times. Even if you make substantially more than she it is not fair for her to expect you to pick up the tab because you are a man and clearly that is what is going on; she would not do this to a woman.

As for the guy who tried to suggest that the movie would not be an even trade for a dinner, maybe not, but a $50 dinner tab would suggest that it included drinks and that is your choice. Where most people live, a show for two people is $15, and I would also throw in drinks and a popcorn, maybe not a totally even trade, but the $30-35 dinner tab I am usually associated with it's pretty close.
 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 207
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 6:53:12 AM
chumps , suckers and desperados pay for each and every date they go on

what your saying by continually paying is

" I am paying for your company to be here at this momment"


What a crock! lol! When I pay when I go on dates, the message I am sending is, "I am a gentleman. I am treating you the way a lady should be treated. I am showing you that I respect you, and I appreciate your company, so much so that I will not allow money to in any way become an issue", and it almost never is.

Money easily COULD become an issue with a lot of the women on here. Many are single moms taking care of themselves and their children on tight budgets. Usually, they earn a fraction of what I earn. Spending fifty or a hundred bucks for a nice date doesn't phase me at all, but for many of those women, coming up with the money for their half WOULD be an issue. I choose not to allow that. I make it clear on the first date that I never expect a woman to pay on a date, and from then on she knows she doesn't have to worry about having enough money if I invite her out somewhere nice.

I've also met a couple of women on here who DO earn what I earn, or even more. I STILL pick up the tab for the date, because to do otherwise would send the wrong message. While I have run into a woman every now and then who might feign at least a half hearted attempt to pay her half, and even a couple who insisted and actually did, I've never run into ONE who didn't appreciate me at least making the effort to treat them the way they KNOW a lady should be treated. Furthermore, to my knowledge, I have NEVER made ANY woman feel like I was "paying for her company", or that she owed me ANYTHING because I picked up the tab.

The opposite is also true. If I were to start quibbling with a lady over who pays, the message I would be sending is, "You really don't matter much to me. I'll pay for my own meal, but I damn sure won't be paying for yours. If you want to spend time with me, make sure you have the funds to do so or I'll be dropping your sorry ass and moving on." Oh yea - now THAT'S the way to kindle a romance! lol! I'm sure a lady put in those circumstances would just be DYING to get her hands on a man like that! How unbelievably pathetic! I was raised me better than that.

I went honky tonkin' a couple months back with a friend of mine I met here on POF. She also invited a bunch of her other friends to meet us there, and some of them invited people too, and we wound up with this huge group, all cutting up and having a blast. Well, about halfway through the night, in walks a fairly attractive woman who was probably about 50 or so. With her was this huge muscle bound pretty boy.

My friend introduced me to them, and they both seemed like very nice people. Then I sat back down next to my friend, and she leaned over and whispered in my ear, "You know what the deal is with those two don't you?"

I said, "No - what?"

She said, "Pretty boy doesn't work."

"What do you mean he doesn't work?", I asked, "Did he loose his job?"

"No", she said, he just doesn't have one. He never does. He's such a hunk, he expects whatever woman he's with to pay his way."

Talk about revolting. The rest of the night I could hardly even keep eye contact with the guy. What a sorry excuse for a man. I was literally ashamed FOR him since he apparently didn't have the sense to be ashamed of himself.

No dude - I don't get the door for a lady just because she's a lady, I get it because I'm a gentleman - and that's what a gentleman does. I don't pay on dates because I can't find women who are willing to go dutch, I pay on dates because I am a gentleman, and that's what a gentleman does.

Mark
 777_777
Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 208
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 7:10:59 AM
A man should always pay...now with that said, let me explain. If you are 'dating' her...courting her, you know....for a relationship, then you should pay. I don't mean to get laid. I mean for your wife or LTR... this is a gentleman, manly thing. I love that. I prefer that. If a man starts to talk about not having enough money, I think in my mind "He can't take care of me or his own life. He has abundance issues" Not that I want a man to take care of me. I am old school. This means that the man is the man. The man pays. Now ...when the relationship gets established, my man is going to get all sorts of goodies. I'll buy him dinners, presents, massage....you name it. But not in the beginning. A man is setting the 'man's' standard in the beginning. IF you are going out as just friends and you want her to pay, then ask her before the evening begins to pay for her drinks. Your more than happy to buy her dinner..is this the case? You should not be supporting her alcolhol habit. When I go out on a date, I am very aware of how much I spend of their money. It's rude to take advantage of people. You might have a slight issue of boundaries maybe. Not to offend you dear one. I like the idea of taking her someplace free or not very expensive. If you do not like the way she is now, it's probably NOT going to change. She may not be the right girl for you baby.
 777_777
Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 209
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 7:11:57 AM
He's the MAN...he knows. Listen to him.K
 777_777
Joined: 1/26/2007
Msg: 210
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 7:15:08 AM
It's because Swamp is from the south. Men from the south always have manners. It's their Momma's good upbringing.
 El Efe
Joined: 12/7/2006
Msg: 211
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 7:21:58 AM
Swamp -

That is very honorable and chivalrous and "gentlemanly" and all that...but there is also something to be said about someone (man or woman) that understands and asserts their value in this world.

Your example with the "hunk" was an extreme one...but the dude understood his value. Now, if I were in your situation, if I had felt shame for anyone...it might've been for the woman that paid his way. And that's a big maybe.

Speaking for myself, it's almost a requirement for a woman to cough up some money in the course of the date if there are activities that require payment (food, admission to a show, etc...). I firmly believe that there should be equal types of contribution, not amounts.

By "types" I mean this: we're both there enjoying each other's company...there is emotional investment through becoming familiar with the other person. She may like me more than I do her, and vice versa...but the point is we are BOTH investing emotionally into the interaction.

From a financial viewpoint...I just can't abide by a woman that sits back expecting to get all of it (the date) for free. Again, the contribution need not be equal. I don't expect her to spot up for half of the sea-salt rubbed Filet and bottle of Veuve Cliquot...but it is appreciated, and recognized when she buys me an ice cream, or a stick of gum.

The point is not result, or even intent...but effort.

F.
 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 212
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 7:26:02 AM
Oh yea - one other thing - how would you expect your own daughter to be treated on a date? I have a 14 year old, and we have daddy/daughter dates all the time. She puts on a nice dress. I put on my suit. We go to a nice restaurant. I get the doors for her. I get her chair for her. I ask what she would like to eat, and then I order for her. When we're done eating, I pay. When we get home I kiss her on the cheek as she goes up to her room and then I remind her - if she ever goes out with a guy who doesn't treat her with just as much respect as her own father just did...

KICK HIM TO THE CURB!!!

Mark
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 213
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 7:40:34 AM

Speaking for myself, it's almost a requirement for a woman to cough up some money in the course of the date if there are activities that require payment (food, admission to a show, etc...). I firmly believe that there should be equal types of contribution, not amounts.


SwampHunter answered this very well; but I'm gonna weigh in, too.

Most women don't respect guys who fail to manage the date. By managing the date, I mean planning, paying for, and being responsible for what happens. Those of us who have sisters had the good fortune of hearing about all the guys who did the wrong thing on dates.

Not paying for dates is at the top of the list. You lose the woman's respect and you become like a little boy to her. She's never going to tell you that, and most women will gracefully pony up if the situation calls for it--but she loses respect for you. Those of you who DON'T want to be seen as a man--the best way to do it is to ask her to pay "her share". It just tells her that you're either a miser, or you don't make enough $$ to finance a social life. No guy in his right mind should want a woman thinking that about him.
 El Efe
Joined: 12/7/2006
Msg: 214
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 7:59:51 AM
Spit -

I fail to see how the one little snippet of my post applies to what you wrote. I'd like to comment...


Most women don't respect guys who fail to manage the date. By managing the date, I mean planning, paying for, and being responsible for what happens. Those of us who have sisters had the good fortune of hearing about all the guys who did the wrong thing on dates.


Ok, what you're talking about here is the man leading the interaction. Surely, one who does that will be looked upon as a "real" man...whatever that may be. Obviously, experiences differ...but I've heard first hand from a significant (to me) number of women that if a man holds fast and expects her to invest...they actually gain her respect. And this is not only from self-sufficient semi-alpha-b1tch types of women...they were a healthy spectrum.


Those of you who DON'T want to be seen as a man--the best way to do it is to ask her to pay "her share". It just tells her that you're either a miser, or you don't make enough $$ to finance a social life. No guy in his right mind should want a woman thinking that about him.


I like how you put "her share" in quotes since you very well know that whole concept is subjective.

The angle you're coming from is one where you put a lot into how SHE feels about you. About what SHE thinks about you. It is an approach I think is not very healthy for you, as a man, nor does it bolster your importance or value in the interaction. If I "manage" a date, in your words, in my own way and the woman thinks less of me because of it...so what? She is likely not the unique little snowflake her mommy insisted she is. There will be others.

Of course we aren't dealing in absolutes and we can only speak based upon the information shot through the prism of our own experience.

F.
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 215
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 8:20:01 AM
The angle you're coming from is one where you put a lot into how SHE feels about you. About what SHE thinks about you.


It's not the most important thing. My own opinion of myself and my adherence to my own standards is, of course. But, how are you going to have a relationship with anyone if you don't care what they think about you?

Look, it's important that your partner respects you. Can we all agree on that? Any normal person wants to be respected/liked by someone they're dating. The only question is: what kinds of practices lead to respect, and what kinds of things lead to you not being respected? What I've heard from family members and friends is that guys who don't manage dates well don't get any respect. When I date, I plan where we're going to go; I handle the details; and I pay everything. It's always worked very well, including most women wanting to engage sexually as well.

Guys who don't "put a lot into how SHE feels" are probably boorish slobs. I don't know how successful they are, and I don't care. I'm successful. What I do works for me on dates. Good luck to guys who insist on going dutch and don't care what their dates think.
 El Efe
Joined: 12/7/2006
Msg: 216
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 8:48:17 AM

My own opinion of myself and my adherence to my own standards is, of course (the most important thing)


As they should be.


Look, it's important that your partner respects you. Can we all agree on that?


I can, and I do.


The only question is: what kinds of practices lead to respect, and what kinds of things lead to you not being respected?


Doesn't this depend entirely on HER set of values and how SHE chooses to form her opinions? It sounds to me, and I may be wrong, that you are advocating "doing whatever you can to make sure she respects you". That is fawning...a practice I don't think anyone with a shred of self-worth would engage in.

F.
 jerofthedesert
Joined: 11/25/2007
Msg: 217
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 8:54:05 AM
How about the woman who asks you out and still expects you to pay?
I had a situation some weeks ago where after 6 or so dates, of my paying, she asked me out for pizza. She picked the time, place, and even suggested a pretty good pie. And when the cheque came she gave me this "ok you're covering this, right" look.

Now granted the bill was less than $20, hardly expensive, but it was the principal of it. We ended up going "dutch", and that was the last time I saw her.
 caring2sharing
Joined: 9/30/2007
Msg: 218
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 8:57:56 AM
I would like to agree with Poohbear..in this day and age yes manners are important but also sharing and helping is also a factor too
 alexandria_gal
Joined: 9/4/2006
Msg: 219
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 9:05:57 AM
^ ^ ^ ^ She should have paid. I would have felt the same way and kicked her to the curb.

However, when I'm first getting to know a man and he's asking me out, then I expect that he will pay for the date. I like men who treat me like a lady, open doors, help me on with my coat and are romantic.

After the first few dates I will ask HIM to something. When I ask, I pay. In fact he doesn't get the opportunity to pay because the tickets have already been purchased, and I leave my credit card with the waiter in advance. At the end of the meal there is no bill to pay, just a credit card receipt ready for me to sign.

Once in an established relationship then it should be equal participation if you both make a comfortable living and have a lot of disposable income. If one of you makes a lot less, or other things put limits on your funds like raising kids, then it should be according to your means.

 JustKelly70
Joined: 2/9/2007
Msg: 220
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 9:09:08 AM
Interesting question OP, I usually pay on the first date, although many offer to pay half, 2nd date and sometimes the first is dinner at my place. Usually a roast, simple and really good. Some dates don't cost much at all, Simple walk on the waterfront, Canoe ride, You get the point. Try something that costs F all, In she lose's interest then
She's just out for a free ride..Good luck
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