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 SwampHunter
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 212
When should the woman start paying??Page 9 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
Oh yea - one other thing - how would you expect your own daughter to be treated on a date? I have a 14 year old, and we have daddy/daughter dates all the time. She puts on a nice dress. I put on my suit. We go to a nice restaurant. I get the doors for her. I get her chair for her. I ask what she would like to eat, and then I order for her. When we're done eating, I pay. When we get home I kiss her on the cheek as she goes up to her room and then I remind her - if she ever goes out with a guy who doesn't treat her with just as much respect as her own father just did...

KICK HIM TO THE CURB!!!

Mark
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 213
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 7:40:34 AM

Speaking for myself, it's almost a requirement for a woman to cough up some money in the course of the date if there are activities that require payment (food, admission to a show, etc...). I firmly believe that there should be equal types of contribution, not amounts.


SwampHunter answered this very well; but I'm gonna weigh in, too.

Most women don't respect guys who fail to manage the date. By managing the date, I mean planning, paying for, and being responsible for what happens. Those of us who have sisters had the good fortune of hearing about all the guys who did the wrong thing on dates.

Not paying for dates is at the top of the list. You lose the woman's respect and you become like a little boy to her. She's never going to tell you that, and most women will gracefully pony up if the situation calls for it--but she loses respect for you. Those of you who DON'T want to be seen as a man--the best way to do it is to ask her to pay "her share". It just tells her that you're either a miser, or you don't make enough $$ to finance a social life. No guy in his right mind should want a woman thinking that about him.
 El Efe
Joined: 12/7/2006
Msg: 214
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 7:59:51 AM
Spit -

I fail to see how the one little snippet of my post applies to what you wrote. I'd like to comment...


Most women don't respect guys who fail to manage the date. By managing the date, I mean planning, paying for, and being responsible for what happens. Those of us who have sisters had the good fortune of hearing about all the guys who did the wrong thing on dates.


Ok, what you're talking about here is the man leading the interaction. Surely, one who does that will be looked upon as a "real" man...whatever that may be. Obviously, experiences differ...but I've heard first hand from a significant (to me) number of women that if a man holds fast and expects her to invest...they actually gain her respect. And this is not only from self-sufficient semi-alpha-b1tch types of women...they were a healthy spectrum.


Those of you who DON'T want to be seen as a man--the best way to do it is to ask her to pay "her share". It just tells her that you're either a miser, or you don't make enough $$ to finance a social life. No guy in his right mind should want a woman thinking that about him.


I like how you put "her share" in quotes since you very well know that whole concept is subjective.

The angle you're coming from is one where you put a lot into how SHE feels about you. About what SHE thinks about you. It is an approach I think is not very healthy for you, as a man, nor does it bolster your importance or value in the interaction. If I "manage" a date, in your words, in my own way and the woman thinks less of me because of it...so what? She is likely not the unique little snowflake her mommy insisted she is. There will be others.

Of course we aren't dealing in absolutes and we can only speak based upon the information shot through the prism of our own experience.

F.
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 215
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 8:20:01 AM
The angle you're coming from is one where you put a lot into how SHE feels about you. About what SHE thinks about you.


It's not the most important thing. My own opinion of myself and my adherence to my own standards is, of course. But, how are you going to have a relationship with anyone if you don't care what they think about you?

Look, it's important that your partner respects you. Can we all agree on that? Any normal person wants to be respected/liked by someone they're dating. The only question is: what kinds of practices lead to respect, and what kinds of things lead to you not being respected? What I've heard from family members and friends is that guys who don't manage dates well don't get any respect. When I date, I plan where we're going to go; I handle the details; and I pay everything. It's always worked very well, including most women wanting to engage sexually as well.

Guys who don't "put a lot into how SHE feels" are probably boorish slobs. I don't know how successful they are, and I don't care. I'm successful. What I do works for me on dates. Good luck to guys who insist on going dutch and don't care what their dates think.
 El Efe
Joined: 12/7/2006
Msg: 216
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 8:48:17 AM

My own opinion of myself and my adherence to my own standards is, of course (the most important thing)


As they should be.


Look, it's important that your partner respects you. Can we all agree on that?


I can, and I do.


The only question is: what kinds of practices lead to respect, and what kinds of things lead to you not being respected?


Doesn't this depend entirely on HER set of values and how SHE chooses to form her opinions? It sounds to me, and I may be wrong, that you are advocating "doing whatever you can to make sure she respects you". That is fawning...a practice I don't think anyone with a shred of self-worth would engage in.

F.
 jerofthedesert
Joined: 11/25/2007
Msg: 217
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 8:54:05 AM
How about the woman who asks you out and still expects you to pay?
I had a situation some weeks ago where after 6 or so dates, of my paying, she asked me out for pizza. She picked the time, place, and even suggested a pretty good pie. And when the cheque came she gave me this "ok you're covering this, right" look.

Now granted the bill was less than $20, hardly expensive, but it was the principal of it. We ended up going "dutch", and that was the last time I saw her.
 caring2sharing
Joined: 9/30/2007
Msg: 218
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 8:57:56 AM
I would like to agree with Poohbear..in this day and age yes manners are important but also sharing and helping is also a factor too
 alexandria_gal
Joined: 9/4/2006
Msg: 219
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 9:05:57 AM
^ ^ ^ ^ She should have paid. I would have felt the same way and kicked her to the curb.

However, when I'm first getting to know a man and he's asking me out, then I expect that he will pay for the date. I like men who treat me like a lady, open doors, help me on with my coat and are romantic.

After the first few dates I will ask HIM to something. When I ask, I pay. In fact he doesn't get the opportunity to pay because the tickets have already been purchased, and I leave my credit card with the waiter in advance. At the end of the meal there is no bill to pay, just a credit card receipt ready for me to sign.

Once in an established relationship then it should be equal participation if you both make a comfortable living and have a lot of disposable income. If one of you makes a lot less, or other things put limits on your funds like raising kids, then it should be according to your means.

 JustKelly70
Joined: 2/9/2007
Msg: 220
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 9:09:08 AM
Interesting question OP, I usually pay on the first date, although many offer to pay half, 2nd date and sometimes the first is dinner at my place. Usually a roast, simple and really good. Some dates don't cost much at all, Simple walk on the waterfront, Canoe ride, You get the point. Try something that costs F all, In she lose's interest then
She's just out for a free ride..Good luck
 tise0987
Joined: 11/17/2007
Msg: 221
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 9:46:01 AM
You're a better judge of her character than us. Is this the ony issue? Does she seem appreciative and greatful ?(in a "G" rated way) Is she not offering because she does not have the means to, or maybe it's too awkward for her? Most 24 years year olds are not desperate enough to spend three evenings with someone they don't care about even for a good meal. My guess is, she will be just as pleased to spend time with you if you're not spending $100. Personaly, I do not like the jokes about her paying. The jesture to pay might me appropriate, but not possible in her case. When I was 24, I couldn't even afford to buy a date ice cream even though I had a good job. Also, I don't think you need to feel bad about not wanting to spend a $100 each time, but I wouldn't judge her on just that either. I think it's different in ever case. However, if someone gives you the feeling that they are entitled, you might want to cut then loose sooner than later.

PS I think $100 is a lot of money to spend, but it dosen't buy much. Even a moderate dinner and drinks or a show can cost that much. So I don't think you're trying too hard either. Good Luck
 Sweethang100
Joined: 4/22/2005
Msg: 222
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 10:03:46 AM
From what you stated, you feel like she's taking you for a ride. However, if you're into her (and it sounds like you are) you don't want to assume the wrong thing.

Ok, let's look at this in perspective, shall we? It's not so long ago that when men asked a lady out, it was just 'assumed' that the guy would pay for everything. Many women still think in those terms. In fact, many still think it. I tend to agree with the old-fashioned thought pattern and it could very well be that she also believes in it. However, many times guys will also try to impress a lady by spending money on them. There's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes it does impress the lady, sometimes it doesn't.

However, if you don't talk about what you would like to see happen, well...it's like you're saying to the gal, "it's ok", even if you haven't said the words, directly. She may not even know you're bothered by it, or she might feel just as uncomfortable.

It doesn't matter how the people in the forum see you. It matters how SHE sees you, and if you've been lavishly spending money on her, and then suddenly stop without communication, then SHE COULD see you as cheap. You need to have that all important conversation wherein you can say, "It would be nice if you 'offered' to pay too, sometimes," or "Maybe we could do some less expensive things because it's getting kind of costly for me." Personally, I would go with number 2. ;) Good luck!
 Irishlad1975
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 223
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 10:09:58 PM
Ok, for lack of better response right off the bat, ROFLMAO HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAH......you pay because you are a gentleman. Ok, I agree with the gentleman thing, however, the JohnWayne era is over because women have forgotten how to be ladies (for the most part). Where did you come up with the idea that a gentleman pays because that's what a gentleman does ? So if SHE chooses to rack up a $250 bill because she wants to drink, I should be a gentleman and pay.
A gentleman respects the lady (if she is one) he is with and the lady respects the man (if he is one)...
 Irishlad1975
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 224
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 10:15:27 PM
Ok, please God tell me you didn't compare dating to taking your 14 yr old daughter old on a "daddy/daughter? date to a real date, you know, one where you find the woman attractive enough to possibly have a physical relationship with her?
I can understand and applaude teaching your daughter values and respect but to compare a dinner with her to an actual date...okay....
 Irishlad1975
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 225
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 10:17:58 PM
Gee, shocker that you would agree...isn't the South the main manufacturers of doormates as well ? If you work full time, have the decency to at least reach for your wallet...
 Irishlad1975
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 226
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/21/2008 10:23:18 PM
Isn't that the definition of prostitution ?
 english lass
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 227
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/22/2008 10:19:06 AM

What a crock! lol! When I pay when I go on dates, the message I am sending is, "I am a gentleman. I am treating you the way a lady should be treated. I am showing you that I respect you, and I appreciate your company, so much so that I will not allow money to in any way become an issue", and it almost never is.

Money easily COULD become an issue with a lot of the women on here. Many are single moms taking care of themselves and their children on tight budgets. Usually, they earn a fraction of what I earn. Spending fifty or a hundred bucks for a nice date doesn't phase me at all, but for many of those women, coming up with the money for their half WOULD be an issue. I choose not to allow that. I make it clear on the first date that I never expect a woman to pay on a date, and from then on she knows she doesn't have to worry about having enough money if I invite her out somewhere nice.

I've also met a couple of women on here who DO earn what I earn, or even more. I STILL pick up the tab for the date, because to do otherwise would send the wrong message. While I have run into a woman every now and then who might feign at least a half hearted attempt to pay her half, and even a couple who insisted and actually did, I've never run into ONE who didn't appreciate me at least making the effort to treat them the way they KNOW a lady should be treated. Furthermore, to my knowledge, I have NEVER made ANY woman feel like I was "paying for her company", or that she owed me ANYTHING because I picked up the tab.

The opposite is also true. If I were to start quibbling with a lady over who pays, the message I would be sending is, "You really don't matter much to me. I'll pay for my own meal, but I damn sure won't be paying for yours. If you want to spend time with me, make sure you have the funds to do so or I'll be dropping your sorry ass and moving on." Oh yea - now THAT'S the way to kindle a romance! lol! I'm sure a lady put in those circumstances would just be DYING to get her hands on a man like that! How unbelievably pathetic! I was raised me better than that.

I went honky tonkin' a couple months back with a friend of mine I met here on POF. She also invited a bunch of her other friends to meet us there, and some of them invited people too, and we wound up with this huge group, all cutting up and having a blast. Well, about halfway through the night, in walks a fairly attractive woman who was probably about 50 or so. With her was this huge muscle bound pretty boy.

My friend introduced me to them, and they both seemed like very nice people. Then I sat back down next to my friend, and she leaned over and whispered in my ear, "You know what the deal is with those two don't you?"

I said, "No - what?"

She said, "Pretty boy doesn't work."

"What do you mean he doesn't work?", I asked, "Did he loose his job?"

"No", she said, he just doesn't have one. He never does. He's such a hunk, he expects whatever woman he's with to pay his way."

Talk about revolting. The rest of the night I could hardly even keep eye contact with the guy. What a sorry excuse for a man. I was literally ashamed FOR him since he apparently didn't have the sense to be ashamed of himself.

No dude - I don't get the door for a lady just because she's a lady, I get it because I'm a gentleman - and that's what a gentleman does. I don't pay on dates because I can't find women who are willing to go dutch, I pay on dates because I am a gentleman, and that's what a gentleman does.


what a refreshing post! a woman you're with would be lucky indeed

i always offer to pay my portion of a date and don't feel negatively if i do... but the above posters' attitude would make a gal feel cared for and respected.. it's not about the money - it's about the attitude more than anything

all the posters who whine about women not wanting a "nice guy" - well, this is a good example of one, imo - someone who's nice in the way he treats others, with respect and consideration, but not a doormat

kudos :)
 horneschwoggle
Joined: 8/12/2007
Msg: 228
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/22/2008 4:24:55 PM
Where did you come up with the idea that a gentleman pays because that's what a gentleman does ?

Swamp is just scoring up Sugar Daddy points with the Gold Diggers. Hope he has enough disposable income to accommodate the influx of e-mails that want a date.
A "gentleman" can only go so far until his pockets become empty and then we'll see if the women come around for only his nice guy status
Nice guys are the ones who get kicked to the curb <
 Brian85BC
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 229
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/22/2008 4:31:22 PM
Shes a ****in golddigger. dump her
 bosox0407
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 230
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 2/12/2008 2:48:00 PM
Always get a kick out of this response...how many woman ask a guy out AND pay? Not many but SOME do.This is a case of most women EXPECT the guy to ask ...So therefore he pays...Just another little manipulations SOME people use.....Spin on old world ettiquette,don't you think?
 bosox0407
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 231
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 2/12/2008 2:58:11 PM
Carol....That is an unfair statement.I agree he should communicate with her,however whatever happened to a woman sying "Hey...You've payed twice and a good chunk too! Let me pay once"? Typycal manipulation of the "old world" system of thinking! Least THAT made some sense.Now a days there are plenty of women who own their own businesses or have great jobs or that are well off for some reason or the other.Yet in many cases men are still expected to foot the nut or risk bieng called "cheap"....If a woman has that old world view then she should find a guy to take care of her financially and she should stay home and take care of the yousehold needs of her man....If she wants a career then she should be willing to cough up some dough on occasion too! It's either one way or the other,or a compromise beneficial to both parties...One way benefits don't get it!
 bosox0407
Joined: 11/9/2007
Msg: 232
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 2/12/2008 3:05:14 PM
So why wouldn't you just SAY I'm hungry and order something to eat,if your willing to pay for it...who cares?
 kathareeene
Joined: 7/26/2007
Msg: 233
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 2/12/2008 3:35:33 PM
dont git played son
but NOW is when u should stop u have been a gentleman
u need to find a date thats cheap n see if she is still interested or if ur gettin played
tell her hadda pay offa big ticket no money what do u wanna do this wknd?
THEN AND ONLY THEN WILL U KNOW
sorry bud it happens every day
kathi
 djrichpowers
Joined: 9/12/2005
Msg: 234
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 2/12/2008 3:44:39 PM
Need some advice, i have been on 3 dates with the female friend of mine, and i have had to pay each time. Now i am not complaining, except for the fact the average cost for each night was roughly $100, and she never offered to pay once. Like Seinfeld "There wasn't even a reach".

What the heck is up with that, i am not accustomed to that. Most girls i have dated have even payed on the first date.

Now she wants to go out again, and i have no idea if i should, cause i don't think its fair for the guy to always pay?? Oh ya she does work, and I believe she makes ok money.

Oh ya, i am 28, shes 24. Any advice??

lykis 101 never more than 50 bucks.
 djrichpowers
Joined: 9/12/2005
Msg: 235
When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 2/12/2008 3:47:27 PM
A gentleman does not mistake or mix charity with dating. A gentleman and a gentlewoman help the needy, via charity.

english please
 grrlnxtdr
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 236
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When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 2/15/2008 4:03:04 AM

Need some advice, i have been on 3 dates with the female friend of mine, and i have had to pay each time. Now i am not complaining, except for the fact the average cost for each night was roughly $100, and she never offered to pay once. Like Seinfeld "There wasn't even a reach".

What the heck is up with that, i am not accustomed to that. Most girls i have dated have even payed on the first date.

Now she wants to go out again, and i have no idea if i should, cause i don't think its fair for the guy to always pay?? Oh ya she does work, and I believe she makes ok money.

Oh ya, i am 28, shes 24. Any advice??


The fourth date. She should at least offer up something, like a tip. By the third date, you should know if you want a fourth date with her anyway. Obviously she has something about her that attracts you enough to take her out on three dates. And by the sound of this post, you're considering the fourth date. By this time she ought to be confident enough to offer up paying for part of the date. I suggest that on this fourth date take her on a cheap one - to the park, to the beach, a picnic, a museum, a nice walk something out of the scope of regular dating (dating doesn't have to be expensive - sometimes the dates that are the most fun cost nothing at all and you really get to see the true nature of someone) - and see how she reacts to it. If she turns her nose up, move on - she's just seeing what she can get out of you at this point.
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