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 AUTHOR
 tick tock
Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 5148
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Hockey anyone?Page 55 of 310    (41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81)
If you read back I proved earlier that the Wings playoff record is on of the best in the confrence. Only Ahaheim in the last 3 yrs is better.


What? That joke of a chart that everyone laughed at? Oh yeah, I saw that and burst out laughing at your flawed logic or attempt to manipulate the stats to make your Wings look better than they really are. By the way, we do not award points in hockey to losers, but you somehow managed to give a point to the Wings for just showing up in the playoffs. The proper way to do it would be to award one point for every series win:

Last 4 years (Western Conference):

Anaheim 9
Edmonton 3
Calgary 3
San Jose 3
Detroit 3

The real irony is the the Wings were the Presidents Trophy winner for 2 of those years and that Edmonton and Calgary equaled the Wings total series victories over 4 years in just one playoff season. I would call that pretty pathetic considering their talent, payroll, and regular season success. Even worse, they were knocked out by teams that just squeaked into the playoffs. Just my take on things.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 5149
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/13/2008 10:06:56 PM
Well Ticky I gave each team a point for making the playoffs.
Even by your stats... you prove my point. The Wings have one of the best playoff rcords in the Confrence over any syetem during the last 15 years. A remarkable feat. As I posted only Aneheim has a better playoff record and only in the last few years.

The Wings are an incredibly consistant team that has now retooled on the fly to remain perenial Cup Contender. Can they win again? Well as I first pointed out here several months ago only one team without a Canadian as its heart and soul leader has one the Cup. This doesn't hold well for my Wings or your Yo- Yo Canucks.

Not defensive ...just the facts! and thank you for re-iterating them.

Now care to take the bet?
 tick tock
Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 5150
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/13/2008 10:19:00 PM
I already took your bet. Look back.

Also, you can misconstrue my post all you want by saying that I'm "re-iterating them", but in reality, I'm mocking them and I see the Wings post-season record over the last few years as a failure. You're lucky I didn't include the Eastern Conference or they'd be down the list even further. If you see them matching Calgary's or Edmonton's post-season performance as success - even though the Wings pretty much were either at the top of the Conference or league in regular season points - then I have to wonder about your judgement. Let me put it this way, Edmonton is 3-4, Calgary is 3-5, Anaheim is 9-11, whereas Detroit is 3-7 over the last 4 years.

PS. I'm not a Nucks fan.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 5151
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/14/2008 7:13:46 AM

I already took your bet. Look back.

Want to name your list?


Let me put it this way, Edmonton is 3-4, Calgary is 3-5, Anaheim is 9-11, whereas Detroit is 3-7 over the last 4 years.


Now you are manipulating the facts by counting in the four years , years when these teams did not make the playoffs.
Here are the actual records of the last four years when these teams made the playoffs and I throw in the Sharks.

Detroit 3 wins 4 loses
2007 - 2-1
2006 - 0-1
2004 - 1-1
2003 - 0-1

Calgary 3 wins 4 loses
2006 - 0-1
2004 - 3-1
1996 - 0-1
1995 - 0-1

Edmonton 3 wins 4 loses
2006 - 3-1
2003 - 0-1
2001 - 0-1
2000 - 0-1

Anaheim 9 wins 3 loses
2007 - 4-0
2006 - 2-1
2003 - 3-1
1999 - 0-1

San Jose 5 wins 4 loses
2007 - 1-1
2006 - 1-1
2003 - 2-1
2002 - 1-1

Again the facts show the truth the Wings have one of the best playoff records in the confrence over any time frame measured in the last 15 years.
 tick tock
Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 5152
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/14/2008 10:13:41 AM
^ What kind of math is that? No statician would compare teams over different years. That makes no sense whatsoever, unless you are desperate to make a point. Heck, why don't I just include the 80's when the Oilers were a dynasty?





2007 - 2-1
2006 - 0-1
2004 - 1-1
2003 - 0-1


Here, I'll spell it out for you using your own quoted numbers:
2+1+0+1+1+1+0+1=7

Therefore, out of 7 series played, Detroit has only won 3. That's the fact! Now you can do the math for the rest.





San Jose 5 wins 4 loses
2007 - 1-1
2006 - 1-1
2003 - 2-1
2002 - 1-1

Ah yes, how could I forget about the Sharks. They are ahead of the Wings as well. Using your stats, they would be 5-9 over the years you listed or, in reality, if you're comparing the last 4 years (like you should be) they are 4-7.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 5154
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/14/2008 11:12:32 AM
Ticky

I brought the Sharks back into the equation to remind you just as I had pointed out originally.(look back a couple of pages). All the other teams you mentioned have the same 3 and 4 record in their last 4 playoff runs as Detroit.

Why only 4 years? Lets look at the last 5 playoff years. Hmmm well that changes things doesn't it. Looking back 5 years and the Wings jump to 7 wins and 4 losses. No surprise here why you chose 4years.

If you can't go back then why go back at all.
Lets look at just last yr. Hmmm...lets see again only one team in the confrence had a better playoff run then the Wings last year.
So I guess in comparison to all the other teams the Wings playoff record is not nearly as bad as made out to be.

3 Cups in the last 10 years is a good a record.
Now if we could only get a Gret Canadian leader.
 tick tock
Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 5155
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/14/2008 12:21:32 PM
Actually, you chose 2 and 4 years back in message 5022...just in case you forgot.

And by the way, the other teams don't have the same crappy record that Detroit has over the LAST 4 years...you are comparing team records from different years (message 5154) to each other to try and make your Wings look better. Heck, you even went as far back as '96 with the Flames and to 2000 with the Oilers...LOL! You're not fooling anyone. Nice try, though. I thought it was funny!
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 5156
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/14/2008 2:35:51 PM
Again you ignore the 1, 2 and 5 year record. Any way you slice it the Wings recorrd is near the top of the confrence.
Gee I am sorry those teams could not make the playoffs.
Certainly the Wings are to be faulted for their success.

See you in round 1...and only round 1.
 tick tock
Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 5158
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/14/2008 9:52:37 PM
Again you ignore the 1, 2 and 5 year record. Any way you slice it the Wings recorrd is near the top of the confrence

You chose the 2 and 4 year records. Either way, how many years can you go back before it just looks like a desperate ploy to make them look better than they have been. In sports, it's "what have you done for me lately?"


Gee I am sorry those teams could not make the playoffs.
Certainly the Wings are to be faulted for their success.

I don't even think (In fact, I know) that the Wings would consider their last few years a success. I mean the President's Trophy winners for 2 of those years and often leading the conference and with such a high payroll and A-list talent getting knocked out by bottom-rung teams for 3 of those 4 years -- in the first round twice and in the second round once. Not good. Even the Oilers and Flames don't consider their last 4 years a success and they've won just as many series as the Wings.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 5159
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/15/2008 6:29:40 AM
"In sports, it's "what have you done for me lately?"


Exactly and how many teams had a better record in the Confrence playoffs than the Wings most recently. ...ONE! The Ducks are the only team by your statement with a better playoff record than the Wings in the Western Confrence. Thank you for again proving my point. I never said the Wings were the best playoff team over the last few years just that there record was near the top.

The Wings and their fans hold them to a higher standard and yes that is why their record in the playoffs lately looks bad. But in reality it is comparable to the rest of the confrence.

This is the price of their Cup wins and great regular seasons.

With regards to the A-list talent and high payroll ...Its a level playing ground now. The Wings are consistantly at the top because they have one of the best management teams in hockey. This team has been re-tooled from the Yzerman era seemingly without missing a step unfortunatly I don't see them winning a Cup till they add that missing ingrediant...a Canadian leader.
 tick tock
Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 5160
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/15/2008 8:39:04 AM
You may see it that way, but I see the Wings as a team that has matched only the success of bottom-rung teams like Calgary, Edmonton, Anaheim (2003) -- and they matched the Wings total series wins (3 in total over 4 years) in just one playoff season each. That's not what they want nor what is expected of them and the disappointment is echoed in the team's statements after each and every defeat and in the deer-in-headlights look on Babcock's face.

Anyway, I agree that the Wings need more leadership (Canadian) and probably a little more grit.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 5161
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/15/2008 4:08:03 PM
The story today in the Detroit Free Press was exactly that they need to play tougher. Babcock is on top of it.
They showed playoff grit last year. This is the toughest most competitive team since they last won in 2002. Time will tell. Can't wait for round 1.

Even if they go out in the first round the Tigers should be running away with the American League Central division by then anyway. So I can't Lose. If only we could straighten out those Lions.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 5163
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/15/2008 10:41:21 PM
With the beginning of spring training(Only a month away) hope springs eternal.

Ernie Harwell leagendary Tiger broadcaster began the first spring training broadcast of the season with a reading from Song of Solomon 2 : 12

"For lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; the flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle(dove) is heard in our land."
Play Ball!

Go Wings!
In Ilitch, Develano, Bowman, Yzerman, and Holland we trust!
 tick tock
Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 5169
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/16/2008 11:14:22 AM
^ Using your logic, Toronto fans should be gloating about their stunning playoff achievements. In reality, though, ancient history has nothing to do with how teams measure themselves, only recent history does (the last few years). Your numbers pretty much support what we've all been saying. If you want to call a discussion about the Wings in a hockey forum "jealousy" then go right ahead - if it makes you feel better. ;) We just call it honesty. That is the purpose of this forum.
 tick tock
Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 5173
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/16/2008 12:12:16 PM
Prarie, sounds like she's defensive and resorting to the emotional argument tactic even when she acknowledges some of the points that we've made. Pretty obvious that you're not angry or jealous...you're merely discussing the facts with someone that doesn't like to hear it.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 5176
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/16/2008 7:45:13 PM
Misplace ...amazing how you exposed there lack of argument. Because they had no facts to stand on they had to degrade your statements as the rant of an emotional woman and therefore not worthy of their consideration.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 5179
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/16/2008 8:22:27 PM
As I have said all along the Wings playoff record when compared to the rest of the division is comparable and on the higher end.
That is when it is measured playoff record versus playoff record.

Their record is manipulated by you by weighing it against their regular season record. The original statement was the Wings suck in the playoffs, not compared against their regular season. Unfortunately the for your arguement the stats don't lie. Only one team in the most recent measure(last playoff run) was better. How will you manipulate that. How far back do you want to go?

Edmonton had a hell of a run in the 80's. As I hockey fan and someone who played against Gretzky I thouroghly enjoyed it. But it's long over.
 tick tock
Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 5180
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/16/2008 9:28:22 PM
My goodness you Wings fans are silly! Whoever said the emotional argument tactic had anything to do with you being a woman (no, I'm talking about the other Wings fan, Kaos). Even men can use that tactic when they're trying to deflect from the weakness of their argument. Funny how people reach for things when they're being defensive. Too funny!!

Anyhow, I predict a Wings victory over the Canucks.
 Kaos86
Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 5182
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/17/2008 6:27:02 AM
Wow ...do you watch hockey at all?

It's only a run if you make the playoffs every year how many times in the past 10 years have these teams missed the playoffs?

The years they lost in the Cup finals nice but they were the aberration.

It would be nice if both of them make the playoffs this year. After many years of no playoffs the people of Alberta so deserve to see playoff hockey.
 tick tock
Joined: 7/30/2006
Msg: 5190
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/18/2008 12:45:35 PM
Kaos: thanks ;) I think someone has a problem with women on a sports board (dont give me that crap about emotionality being used in an argument against a man ticktock...BS...especially when its a MAN saying it) but thats ok. Im used to it. Ive posted on a number of Wings forums and theres always a handful of men who take what I know and twist it into an emotional argument simply because Im a woman when men post very similar posts and its simply an argument then. Ah well!


Sounds you have issues. Y0u sound like the type that walks around like claiming everything is an example of discrimination. There have been many female posters on the several hockey threads on this forum and on other forums that have been valuable contributors to the discussion and do not resort to attacking other posters with arguments like "you're jealous" or "you're angry" - that's what we call the "emotional argument tactic" where someone, like yourself, tries to agitate another poster (like Prairie Pundit" by claiming they're being "jealous" or "angry" when they are simply just discussing hockey issues(and, in this case, dismantling your arguments). Have you finally figured it out yet or are you going to continue to carry on with that victim mentality ?


I think someone has a problem with women on a sports board


I think someone has a problem with people of a different ethnic backgrounds on a sports board (see...I could play that dumb game as well)

Wings beat the Nucks. Luongo made it a game, stopping near 50 shots.


Didn't get a chance to watch the game, but I had a feeling the Nucks would lose this one. I thought they'd lose it in regulation, but I'm surprised they actually made it to OT. Looks like they're going through a bad patch, but so are a few teams in our division.
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