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 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 100
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of USPage 6 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
"I have long felt that this is the reason I never could grasp calculus even though I excelled in algebra, geometry, and even Trig. All my teachers would teach me forumlas and when to use them, but never why to use them or how they worked exactly."

No one has responded for awhile, so I thought I'd take another look, and the thought occured to me that I find what you said a little alarming. You were taught calculus without any attention to why various formulas are introduced? Calculus, by it's nature, is applied mathematics. It was developed as an applied math, and is of paramount importance still for that very reason. How can you possibly teach calculus without broaching it's applications to the natural world?
 Philosophers Stone
Joined: 7/11/2005
Msg: 101
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 12:55:53 AM
^^^^
Simple. First step, you take a field of applied mathematics and say that it can be done in three semesters. Next step, you include new information provided to this field without increasing the time allotted to it. Next step is you further broaden the scope of what is contained in this field and include it in the same amount of time you had previously. Finally you punish professors who say that you now have 5 semesters worth of material trying to fit into three semesters, and then they proceed to reduce what is taught starting with the foundation since the school won't budge anywhere else.

End result you get professors who stand in front of the class and tell you the formulas and when to use them and not much else.

Yay publicly funded universities. Go team go.
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 102
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 9:52:06 AM
That is very unfortunate. Just more examples of how poorly education is handled. Hey, I wonder what happened to sotexguy?
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 103
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 10:28:37 AM
If you choose to be spritual at all, I think pantheism is a logical way to go. You are in good company- Einstein was pantheist, as are many great scientists. The founding fathers of the United States were deists, but there are some important parallels between pantheism and diesm. For me, I don't see a reason to interpret the universe as having conscious intent, but that is a philosophical stance. If I felt otherwise, I would certainly lean towards the "god is the manifestation of nature in totality" school.
 thegoat
Joined: 8/14/2005
Msg: 104
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 10:35:38 AM
>>>Posted By: Bright1Raziel on 10/13/2005 1056 AM: Atheism is (in my opinion) the way everything should be taught, (i myself am panthiestic) as it alows peopl to learn scientificaly without imposing theology on thier ideas and alows them to chose thier own thiestic belifs.

--->I totally agree with that. Unfortunately it'll be a tough fight to get there because that would involve relinquishing the control over our childrens education that the radical religious zealots currently have.
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 105
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 10:52:13 AM
You lost me on 2 dimensional space. Don't you mean four dimensional space time, or are you referring to the extra dimensions postulated to be enfolded on a microcosmic level by some interpetations of string theory?
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 106
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 10:59:31 AM
"Unfortunately it'll be a tough fight to get there because that would involve relinquishing the control over our childrens education that the radical religious zealots currently have."

Which is exactly my concern with privatization. I am a proponent of privatization in many arenas. I think the motive of profit has a tendency to force people into efficiency as opposed to bloated social programs, but neither am I extreme in that position. I think some things may work better socially funded. Like I said, I don't really have a solution myself for that issue. I'm open to suggestion. What do you think? Try to fix education, but leave it social; privatize and have no real state standards, but leave education up to the whim of whatever private organization owns the school (usually religious) or some combination thereof?
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 107
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 11:16:08 AM
Okay, I'll check that one out, because I'm not sure exactly what you are getting at. As far as I can tell, brains are objects in three-dimensional space (or four dimensional space-time if you want to incorporate relativistic physics.)

"the second dimension consits of brains lying in difrent directions that 'wiggle', the interaction of two wiggles creates a three dimensional point, as such all mater is conected together by brains of two dimensional space"

Could you put this another way, as I'm not getting your point. Or, I'll just read the book and get back to you on that one.
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 108
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 11:59:51 AM
Actually I know exactly what you are refering to now. I have encountered it in it's relevancy to string theory. I'm not familiar with Hawking's use of the concept in relation to consciousness though (sounds highly speculative.) I'll definitely put that on my reading list.
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 109
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 12:27:23 PM
"hawking is purely scientific in his approach and would never askribe philosophical values to a scientific theory."

I don't know about that. I thought A Brief History of Time was peppered with some philosophical suppositions, but then it's not unusual to skirt the strict methodology in a text of science popularization. Anyway, I think I see where you're going with the branes/brains thing. Certainly an interesting thought.
 thegoat
Joined: 8/14/2005
Msg: 110
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 12:54:29 PM
>>>Posted By: wonkavision on 10/13/2005 1031 AM: Which is exactly my concern with privatization. (that statement was in response to, "that would involve relinquishing the control over our childrens education that the radical religious zealots currently have")

--->Certainly you wouldn't send your children to a christian school.... You would probably send your children to a school that taught what you wanted them to learn.... So who cares if the zealots do the same.... This way your kids are getting the education you want them to get instead of their education being at the mercy of the public school systems, the governments that are in charge of them, and the radical religious zealot politicians that run the governments.

>>>I'm open to suggestion. What do you think?

--->I don't think it's the governments role to feed, cloth, and educate us. I am a firm believer in survival of the fittest... If we can't do it on our own we don't deserve it... We should have the government force success or failure onto us (more often than not, if the govt was involved, it would be failure anyways).
 thegoat
Joined: 8/14/2005
Msg: 111
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 12:57:23 PM
>>>Posted By: wonkavision on 10/13/2005 1223 PM: A Brief History of Time

--->One of my absolute favorite books by the way!!!!!!
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 112
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 1:48:58 PM
If you like that one, I could recommend a whole library of literature in a similar vein. I'm not in disagreement with your sentiments on survival. It's similar to something I addressed in a different thread. When people are conned by schemes that a basic education in critical thinking, skeptical reasoning and logic would expose as nonsense, I can't help thinking they bare the onus of the culpability. I would just say that I'm not as extreme in that position as you seem to be. I see social governance as a little more complex, and sometimes concessions in ideology have to be made for practical reasons. I just can't see anything but the further decay of our society and strength of the nation come from even more diminished rational education. Most people are simply not fit to home school for instance. It's a matter of credentials, and I think it is necessary to impose a standard of education. To home school I think parents should have to prove a certain level of education themselves, but once again, this is a very difficult issue for me, because I am also a firm believer in liberty and the right to believe and teach your children that the moon is made of green cheese if you like. It's one of those issues in life that I find too intractable to present a complete solution. As of yet, anyway, something might come to me. I certainly am on board with the sentiment as it relates to technology and the human race as a whole. I firmly believe that since advanced cognition and manipulation of our environment are the tools we evolved to survive in our envrionment we have a responsibility in a sense to pursue what we are, regardless of consequence. If we can't handle it on an ethical level and jeopordize our own ability to survive, then so be it. Who says the human race should survive forever anyway?
 thegoat
Joined: 8/14/2005
Msg: 113
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 2:00:22 PM
>>>Posted By: wonkavision on 10/13/2005 158 PM: If you like that one, I could recommend a whole library of literature in a similar vein.

--->I would love to see your suggested reading list ;)

I think when we error, we should error on the side of liberty instead of the side of government control.

Just my point of view. I hate to be controlled and have no desire to control anyone else.

Have a great day!
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 114
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 2:21:28 PM
"I think when we err, we should err on the side of liberty instead of the side of government control."

Sorry for changing your quote a bit, but I think it more grammatically correct as err is the verb, where as error is the noun that refers to the action. I know I'm a buthole when it comes to grammar, partly because I'm a writer, and partly because of my obsessive-compulsive nature. Anyway, I agree, and I have great respect for that notion in general. I just find myself in conflict on this one particular issue with my patriotic wish to see the nation thrive. On most issues though it's pretty much as cut and dry for me as it is for you.
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 115
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 2:24:09 PM
Oh yeah, I'll start thinking about some good suggestions and when I get the first ten, I'll e-mail you some suggestions for reading material-

Here's three just off the top of my head-

Chaos- by James Gleick

The Elegant Universe- by Brian Greene

The Demon Haunted World, Science as a Candle in The Dark- by Carl Sagan.
 thegoat
Joined: 8/14/2005
Msg: 116
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 2:42:14 PM
>>>Posted By: quietjohn2 on 10/13/2005 204 PM: Human survival is no longer about the fittest individuals,

--->Well cerainly not when you have government supporting those who are not fit enough to survive.

>>>Survival of a society, or even a group must by definition require some group decisions and agreement to abide by them. Isn't that the role of government?

--->I know that WAS the role of governmnet. To be a small body made up of the people, to facilitate self-governance of a free people. It has since turned into seperate animal bent on self preservation (individuals in government, not necessarily preservation of the government as it was designed or the country) and growing exponentially bigger.

>>>And the fittest governments survive? Capitalism, Socialism ....

--->Yes, I think the cold war was evidence of that. And I think the end of the cold war has done alot of harm to our country, as our government did not have an enemy or a war to fight, so it turned on us.

>>>they're all getting tested and jossling for position. Who's gonna win?

--->There's no telling because we are not a real democracy or a real capitalism. We're kind of a hybrid republic (almost a theocracy) and we're operating a hybrid capitalist economy, and I don't think this system is sustainable. Is it better or worse than other governments that exist? I think that's up for debate... And to be honest, I'm not sure what my position would be on that... But instead of wasting my time figuring that out I'd rather just try to fix the problem, as unrealistic as that seems.
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 117
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 10/13/2005 6:55:24 PM
"Human survival is no longer about the fittest individuals"

Actually I would say that what constitutes "fittest" has changed, but it is less of a factor. the truth is humans as a species are so efficient at survival using the advanced cognition we have evolved that we have insulated ourselves from the perils of our environment to a degree, so many survive that would not in a state of nature. Social survival has replaced physical survival in much of the world's population.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 118
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History
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 3/10/2013 2:23:36 PM
Fast-forward to March 2013
(after the world ended even)




Went browsing the dusty shelves of POF threads. Found some that might be entertaining to look at. And found this one. Anyone wanna revive it?




~
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 119
view profile
History
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 4/19/2013 4:39:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li67BLW8wBA&list=PL5E12A93690A49215&index=26
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 120
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History
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 4/24/2013 12:20:58 AM
religions mostly contradict each other.

at least that's what I see.
 MoonCanvas
Joined: 8/19/2012
Msg: 121
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 5/9/2013 1:01:56 AM
The new most ignorant video on YouTube. Religious folks being able to get away with being religious by claiming they aren't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY
 clarence clutterbuck
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 122
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History
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 5/9/2013 2:14:17 PM
The new most ignorant video on YouTube. Religious folks being able to get away with being religious by claiming they aren't.


Watched the video. The guy's approach seemed consistent with the popular I'm not religious. I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ line used by conservative Christians. It's some kind of' exclusivity of truth claiming religion=bad, Jesus=good faith proclamation type thing in a rap poetry style with sympathetic musical accompaniment.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 123
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History
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 5/9/2013 6:28:51 PM
(vid)

Yea...he's talking some good stuff (some), but he's still attaching it all to the jesus-concept. Still just glorifying and legitimizing it. All he's saying is don't be fake religious, but be real religious.
 MoonCanvas
Joined: 8/19/2012
Msg: 124
An Atheism Thread For the Rest of US
Posted: 5/21/2013 4:37:15 AM
A personal relationship with Jesus?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLBDFe3mDtk

Amusing videos, really. This guy has a lot of good shit.
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