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 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 207
Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?Page 12 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
Ive dated someone who was diagnosed as Bi polar and in my experience it was challenging, when her moods was up she was fine, but when she was down look out Santa Lucia..... Ive never seen someone as abusive.

Although bipolar people cannot control their moods and emotions, they can still control their actions. I don't think one should not tolerate abuse not matter what the illness is.

Im sorry, but from prior experience and experience from family members and friends I wouldn't date someone who is bi polar again, dating is hard enough, this is no fault of someone who is bi polar but it can be a challenge and a challenge not every one is up to taking.

I think it takes a person of real patience and extreme compassion who is not bi polar to date someone who is bi polar
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 209
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Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/15/2011 1:41:47 AM
^^^^The problem I see with bipolar and many other emotional disorders it that other disorders often are present at the same time--"comorbid." And there seems to be some sort of "kindling" effect among them.

Watch most episodes of "House," and you'll see this same effect portrayed--one thing goes wrong in a patient's body, and that sets off something else, and so on. And fixing one problem may make the other ones worse. Same with emotional disorders. That makes them tricky to medicate and requires the doctor to keep a close watch on how the treatment's going.

A good percentage of people with bipolar have one or more anxiety disorders, obsessive-compulsive disorder, post-traumatic stress disorder, etc. Or they may have some symptoms of these things, but not all. But where that's the case, and the symptoms go untreated, they're more likely to grow into the full-fledged disorder than just fade away on their own.

Not saying it can't be done--but don't count on the family doc to do the job with some med samples the sales rep left him. And some bipolar/borderline patients seem to be their own worst enemies. Their grandiose delusions may convince them that they're just fine, and it's everyone else who's off base. So why should *they* change anything?
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 212
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Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/16/2011 1:59:36 AM

I am pretty normal most of the time and I resent the implication.
It is unfair.


Kuyan, If I was unfair, I'm sorry. That's not at all what I meant it to sound like. I don't know you, and I was only going by what you said about having been diagnosed with bipolar.

I just meant that *some* people with this disorder hurt themselves by refusing to do what their doctors tell them--or even worse, by refusing to believe they even have any problem. Not everyone with bipolar has grandiose delusions. But when they do, that kind of thinking can be part of the delusion. That's all.

I didn't mean to imply you were anything like that. In fact, I'm sure you're not, or you wouldn't have posted here. You just be yourself all day and every day, and it'll be fine with me.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 215
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Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/16/2011 2:38:06 PM
Kuyan--You don't owe me an apology for anything, and you didn't say anything even close to mean and nasty. And no, you haven't proven you're a leper. No need to be ashamed about anything at all--give that a rest. Also, please read my first post to you again.

You're not feeling quite yourself, that's all. Now stop apologizing, and thinking dopey thoughts, and focus instead on searching for some really good professional help. The nearest university hospital is a good place to start. A lot of them have anxiety or mood disorder clinics, and people who can advise you. But just go ahead, right away.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 217
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Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/17/2011 10:36:32 AM

Meds can be a good thing.


I'd take that even further and say that everything I've read suggests meds are usually the most important thing. Bipolar disorder, in any of its various forms, is nothing to take lightly. One of the most diabolical things about it seems to be that it sometimes tricks people who have it into doing just that. It's a little like an anorexic person believing that if they have any problem, it's that they're overweight.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 218
Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/17/2011 12:18:42 PM
I thought the same thing a few years ago, when a lady I knew in St. Louis used to talk about a good friend of hers who was bipolar. But it's completely real--there are all sorts of neurological studies that show unusual things going on in the brain. And it goes way beyond just being moody.

I understand all of that, and I'm not really discounting bipolar disorder as a real disorder, nor even limiting it to the most extreme examples. My comment about bipolar disorder being the latest trendy mental illness to have is based on a few of things:

(1) Lots of people self-diagnose based on the flimsiest criteria stated in ridiculously simplistic language found on web sites that would make even Dr. Phil cringe. Just about anyone looking for an excuse to justify anything can easily find a disorder to fit the bill. Bipolar disorder seems to be the disorder du jour at the moment. Most people who have surgical procedures can't even tell you what their surgeon did beyond some vague notion of having something done somewhere near the scar from the incision, so I'm inclined to doubt anyone who claims to have bipolar disorder without knowing exactly how that person arrived at that conclusion.

(2) I've been told I have ADD. Before that, I was told lots of other things, too, including that I was bipolar. However, apart from ending up taking Adderall and that having the desired effect, I was prescribed a few other things along the way that certainly changed my behaviour, but not in a way that I considered beneficial. I took lithium for about a week until I found that being a zombie was not an acceptable way to live. However, I'm very proactive when it comes to my own medical care and I never talk to physicians without reading the medical literature, so I'm less likely to accept a diagnosis and just go along with what a physician tells me than most anyone I know. I could just as easily be a medicated zombie claiming to be bipolar if I just bought into that diagnosis. I can't even say for sure that I have ADD. I may just like the way I feel and the enhanced menatl performace I get with Adderall. I think it's best to be very suspicious of being diagnosed with any disorder (especially a mental disorder) and I'm a little wary of how many people seem to not only have it, but inform everyone of it. I'll cop to ADD because Adderall has made a major improvement in my life. To the best I can tell, though, just about anyone could get a diagnosis of ADD. Writing prescriptions for control drugs or expensive drugs is big business, so where there is profit to be made from drug sales, there will be diagnoses to generate customers.

(3) I'm not sure where you draw the line between a disorder and normal variation in human behaviour. In particular, Thomas Szasz makes that point to the extreme in ``The Myth of Mental Illness.'' He may be extreme, but at some point, you have to allow for people to think differently without classifying everything but complacent conformity as a disorder. I feel fortunate that I had high school teachers who bent the rules and let me wander around and teach myself rather than tell my parents I needed counseling and medication for what amounted to being bored silly and frustrated with having to waste my time just sitting in a classroom. The more people are forced to be like everyone else, the more any differences will be labeled mental disorders. (The short story, Harrison Bergeron by Kurt Vonnegut comes to mind as carrying this to its logical extreme.)

(4) Given the multiple subtypes and the range of extremes between phases (like not so much to full blown mania), it's not very productive to lump everything together under bipolar disorder. Personally, I think that sort of labeling ought to be reserved for the cases that are clear cut, not more subtle affective disorders. As an example, I'd use schizophrenia. I've known a couple of schizophrenics and it was pretty clear that they were not all there, even when medicated. The cause is clearly tied to elevated levels of dopamine and I doubt that there would be much argument between any two psychiatrists about the diagnosis.

Basically, I question whether the number of people claiming to be bipolar is really representative of how many people have a disorder that has been accurately diagnosed and something that obviously needs to be fixed.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 220
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Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/17/2011 5:44:13 PM

Given the multiple subtypes and the range of extremes between phases (like not so much to full blown mania), it's not very productive to lump everything together under bipolar disorder. Personally, I think that sort of labeling ought to be reserved for the cases that are clear cut, not more subtle affective disorders.


Good points. You're right that it's questionable how accurately these conditions are usually diagnosed. And the milder they are at the time, the more questionable the diagnosis--those aren't easy calls, like the extreme cases.

One problem, I think, is that most people are not diagnosed or treated by the first-line specialists. Unavoidable, maybe, but it may account for a lot of the baloney you're talking about. The doctor may be the guy a couple local mental health clinics go to when medication seems to be in order. But how well will someone in that position usually understand the patient's problem?

So when Dr. X makes his scheduled stop at the Miasma Valley Community Wellness Center and glances through Mr. Schlumpf's file, he thinks either spectaculol or wonderzine might be a good bet in his case. But he already knows which one he'll try; he just had a drink the other day with that sales rep for wonderzine, and God, is she a babe! As long as there's some evidence it works for problems like Schlumpf's symptoms seem to indicate, he's in the clear.

I don't know this, but I'd guess a lot of people are (incorrectly) diagnosed bipolar because they complain of being depressed, but not all the time. The official criteria are not even that clear--one complaint is that they don't account well for very fast mood cycling, or for "mixed states/ "dysphoric manias." Apparently the top researchers have plans to change this is the next DSM.

One of the most interesting things about bipolar disorder, to me, is how it differs--if it does--from "borderline personality disorder." The whole idea of fixed personality traits strikes me as outdated--literally something out of the 1930's.

Obviously some mental and emotional characteristics of a person are more fixed than others. But we also know certain drugs cause radical changes in the way people think and act, regardless of what personality traits they tend to have. Hard for me to see how it makes sense just to accept a certain set of maladaptive thoughts and actions as such-and-such "personality disorder," if drugs could relieve suffering by changing those thoughts and actions.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 221
Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/17/2011 7:49:22 PM

Hard for me to see how it makes sense just to accept a certain set of maladaptive thoughts and actions as such-and-such "personality disorder," if drugs could relieve suffering by changing those thoughts and actions.

For one thing, I'm not sure how one distinguishes between maladaptive thoughts and the type of thinking that produces innovation. A lot of very gifted people have been rather disturbed people. John Nash is just one of the more familiar examples. A recent example is Grigori Perelman. He turned down the European Mathematics prize, stating that the committee was not qualified to judge his work, even positively. He is the only person to have ever declined a Fields Medal (the mathematical equivalent of a Nobel Prize) and he has so far declined to accept the $1,000,000.00 for solving one of the Clay Mathematics Institute's millenium prize problems (the only one solved so far). The other details of his life tend to suggest he's a little different than other folks, but if he were to have been medicated to make a little more normal, would that have simultaneously destroyed the thinking process by which he's managed to be so successful at mathematics?

Brain chemistry is a long way from being well enough understood to create drugs which fix what they are intended to fix without having undesirable side effects. It may turn out to be impossible to seperate maladaptive thoughts from creativity. What would you give up in mental ability to avoid being depressed, if that was a choice you had to make?
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 222
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Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/17/2011 9:36:00 PM
^^^^^If I were depressed, I'd say all of it. And if not, I'd have some other answer. If something hurts bad enough, you'll do almost anything to get rid of the pain. That's all great about creativity, but it's up to the person involved to make the call. I'm convinced that the pain involved in some emotional disorders is beyond what most people can imagine.

The evidence is the accounts of people who have suffered through some of these things, saying how they were already feeling worse than they ever had in their lives--or had ever even imagined anyone could feel--when suddenly the bottom fell out, and it got ten times worse yet. That's when just sitting up in bed becomes a half-day project, and your usual thought is, "Someone, please, shoot me, and get it over with!"
 LAgoodguy
Joined: 8/21/2008
Msg: 223
Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/17/2011 11:22:37 PM
I didnt read all the threads. But here is my one cent worth. A good reason to go ahead and date a bipolar is that you have the excitment to wake up to a brand new person in the morning that you never meet before. It would be even more exciting if that new person has a violent tendency. Well i would rather have same boring person but thats just me.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 224
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Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/18/2011 12:16:45 AM
^^^^^^One cent's too high. And if the LA stands for my hometown of Los Angeles, I'm sorry about it. You're free not to date anyone who has bipolar disorder, just like everyone else is. But why go out of your way to poke fun at those women?

I have nothing against you personally. But for saying something so unkind about people who are suffering from a very serious medical problem, you should be ashamed of yourself. Is there a hole where your heart ought to be?
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 227
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Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/18/2011 8:27:34 AM
Kuyan, Thanks so much for the kind words--I am blushing. It's just that seeing someone kick people when they're down really pisses me off.

I'm not planning any trips down your way, unfortunately. But if I were, you bet I'd look you up. Hope you are doing all right, and I'm sure things will keep getting better for you.

As for the people who don't want to know you--well, too bad for them.
 LAgoodguy
Joined: 8/21/2008
Msg: 228
Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/18/2011 6:50:15 PM
Sorry if i offended any one as i didnt read all the posts. But i do know of a few bipolar people. I do understand that some can be in worse condition then others. There is one guy i know for many years who is in the hospital now for the last 3 years. He got real bad in less then 2 months. Toward the end he had a very short temper and they had to take him in. He went after a customer cause he didnt like how the guy talked to him. My Ex GF brother was one. Man has an IQ of 167 but he cant hold a job. The things he would sometimes do are not funny. With meds he would be one of the most intresting guys to talk to and very smart. With out you dont want to be around him. Ex GF son was one and when he was good he was the best child you would ever see. Then he would just flip and go into rage. Twice i had to get a hold of him when he started to chase his sister with knives or forks. I know we all have diffrent exp but i wont ever go tru that again. Again i say it from what i dealt with. Dont want to be mean but i just wont ever do it again. We all go on with what our exp teach us. So when someone asks should they i say no as that was the heading of the thread.
 AlphonseO
Joined: 9/6/2008
Msg: 230
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Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/19/2011 7:13:27 AM
All right, I need to vent on this subject. I dated a beautiful woman for over two years. at times early on in our relationship she would just seem to snap, and **** at me for no apparent reason. I assumed it was that she was going through an ugly divorce, and was just overburdened, and stressed. But as her divorce became final, and we became closer thing worsened. Since she no longer was able to direct all her anger at times toward her Ex I became the recipient of unmanaged anger issues. After doing much reading on the subject of Bipolar, I am quite sure she suffers from this, and drinks a lot. All of her children have moved out as soon as they were able, leaving her with a big house with three empty bedroom and the kids living in friends basements all close to home. They only visit for short times as she always starts something with them about why she needs to drink. One night we would be talking of marriage and spending our life together and the next day I would receive hateful nasty mean text messages from her and mean phone calls, for no apparent reason. And she would never offer an answer to why, Just that I was so F**king stupid if she really needed to tell me why, projecting all her issued on me. I had recently discovered she had tried to commit suicide in the past. Claims everyone of her family has issues and all create drama in her life, and that she is the only one normal. In her manic state she was the perfect person, caring and loving. My family adored her until I let them read the text messages and listen to voice mails she left.
I love her and feel sorry for her BUT in no way am I willing to hitch my wagon to that. I hope she gets help, as I fear not the she is divorced and family members have moved out she will get worse, but she will not seek help.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 231
Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/19/2011 7:24:09 AM

My family adored her until I let them read the text messages and listen to voice mails she left. -alphonseo
I admit I wouldn't date someone who is bi-polar because of past experience but im not about to throw them under the bus either,From the limited research ive done on the subject because of the ex is enough info for me to come to the conclusion that Im not patience enough and I shouldn't link all Bi polars together.

But your comment just made me shake my head, Why the ( beep) would you let your family read a personal message from someone that was address for your eyes?2) Listen to voices mails 3) its none of the families business about your relationship with your ex, does the term " expectation of privacy" mean anything?
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 232
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Is there a good reason not to date someone who is bipolar?
Posted: 1/19/2011 4:58:44 PM
I love her and feel sorry for her BUT in no way am I willing to hitch my wagon to that.


And neither would anyone else in his right mind. You can give people tips on where and how to get help--but the final responsibility for doing that--and for taking their treatment regime seriously, once it's been set up--is theirs. If a person's disorder has made them too blind to see how they sabotage their lives even though everyone else can, or if the disorder has led them to abuse alcohol or do some other thing which aggravates it, they may be beyond all hope. Tragic--but that's on them.

But it's already possible for most people with bipolar disorder to have very good lives, and as new drugs appear, "most" may become "almost all." This may even come to be true of the very closely-related "borderline personality." As someone who has a lot of faith in psychopharmacology and very little in Freudian personality theories, I doubt most of what I've read about that disorder--or if it even exists.

And yet people who get that diagnosis--75% of them women--make up a fourth of psychiatric inpatients. Sounds like they're just being warehoused to me--and the fact a lot of the therapists and doctors who deal with "borderline" patients apparently dislike them makes me suspect that all the more. I'm sure their disorder makes many of them very easy to detest.

But is it so great to be what they often appear--pretty, selfish drama queens with a strong sense of entitlement and a willingness to lie, manipulate and viciously attack people without a second thought? If so, it's odd how often they feel lonely, worthless, and despairing, or have paranoid beliefs, or feel enraged without being just sure why, or are afraid to trust people, or that one in ten of them finally decides to end it all.

As long as I liked the rest of a woman just fine, and she could control her symptoms very well and was absolutely committed to doing that, I'd no more hesitate to get involved with her because she had bipolar disorder, in whatever variation, than I would is she had diabetes, or epilepsy. I can't see any unreasonable risk, if we really knew and loved each other.

Remember, there's also a risk in getting involved with someone who has none of these identifiable problems, but even so is self-absorbed, dishonest, demanding, unkind, etc. It's the risk of investing your feelings in someone who will always put herself first.
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