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 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 137
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Does God answer prayer?Page 10 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
There is no evidence that the so-called "Q" document ever existed. It was the theory of someone who did not buy into the traditional Gospels. As far as translations go, no they do not vary all that much. And as far as copies of copies of copies....ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls? It was proof that copies did not vary much from the original.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 138
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/11/2012 9:54:48 AM
RDtoo (hi btw :)
as far as copies of copies of copies....ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls? It was proof that copies did not vary much from the original.
Yes I've heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and I don't think their existence does much to prove your point.. what originals.. ?

As far as translations go, no they do not vary all that much.
Surely you jest......

But I agree with Alan above, none of this has much to do with whether or not God answers prayer. The thread took that turn when someone acted as though he was an authority on the matter. In order to do so, it's best if you have something to back it up with. Not that that's even possible in this case.
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 139
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Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/11/2012 2:26:37 PM
No, it does not answer the question if God answers prayer or not, but I am the OP, and it wasn't me who veered off course. Can you give me an example of a couple of different translations in how they vary?
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 140
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/11/2012 3:04:09 PM
How about the amount of books included in the Ethiopian bible in comparison to say, the King James version?

The word hell is a fine example (only one mind you).. Sheol, Hades Gehenna.. which is it.. ? I don't believe any of these refer to eternal damnation.. which is of course, the modern usage of the term.

Are you able to point me to these originals that you have made reference to?
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 141
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Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/11/2012 7:44:54 PM
A mistranslated word here and there does not put me in mind that translations vary all that much. Yes, there have been books found in the copies of the Bible that were later rejected. That makes sense to me. They did not have mass communications back then, so misinformation could have been passed on especially by the Gnostics who had their own agenda. There were not many people putting any stock whatsoever into the Gnostic books until about 20 years ago when opponents of Christianity made people think they were hidden for some reason. As far as originals go, no, I do not know of any originals, but that was not the point I was making in mentioning the Dead Sea Scrolls. There have been fragments of the Gospels from the 1st century found and what can be read seems to be what is in later copies. They even found a parody of the Gospel of Matthew a couple of years back that dated to 50AD. I started this thread because I am somewhat sceptical about what the Bible claims at times. I have never seen any convincing arguments that disprove it though.

Alan, as you enjoy Dawkins, you might like to read "the Dawkins Delusion" by Alistar McGrath. Then again you might not!
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 142
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Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/11/2012 7:53:49 PM
Sheol means the grave, Hades was the Greek Hell, I don't pay much attention. The Lake of Fire seems pretty clear. God Himself is referred to as a Consuming Fire in the Book of Hebrews. Kind of scary when you think of it.
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 143
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/12/2012 1:56:35 AM
I believe that God answers prayers.
He has answered some of mine.
not for material things,..
but for inner peace and love.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 144
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/12/2012 9:02:16 AM

Sheol means the grave, Hades was the Greek Hell, I don't pay much attention. The Lake of Fire seems pretty clear. God Himself is referred to as a Consuming Fire in the Book of Hebrews. Kind of scary when you think of it.
None of them refer to eternal damnation, as is the modern understanding of the term. I'd say that translation is a MASSIVE difference. To name just ONE.
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 145
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Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 12:59:10 AM
So if none of them refer to eternal damnation, where is the variance? LOL.

Actually, I did not and do not intend to get into an on-going debate. I spent several years here debating these things and found most people here were not interested in knowing truth, but rather just engaged in one-upman-ship. I decided not to invest the time here anymore a couple of years back. Things like 2 different accounts of Creation in Genesis do not bother me. Why would it? I think there are alot of clues that the earth has a pre-history that we nor the Gnostics know anything about. The Bible gives alot of answers but is not exhaustive in answering everything. I am a sceptic and there are things that bother me alot. Reliablity of the manuscripts is not one of them.

To answer my own original question, I have had an answer to prayer that was quite miraculous. It happened once. It is the unanswered ones that bother me.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 146
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 10:51:41 AM

So if none of them refer to eternal damnation, where is the variance? LOL.
I've only stated it twice now- with the modern understanding of the term. What is preached in churches all across the continent does not match up with the original meaning of the terms because the original terms were all translated into the word hell. And we all know what that has come to mean.

I spent several years here debating these things
So did I.. you may remember sassyaquarius?

and found most people here were not interested in knowing truth
Whose version of it?

but rather just engaged in one-upman-ship.
That's all part of a good debate, I prefer more of a dialectic myself, but there's no need to quibble on semantics, lol..

I decided not to invest the time here anymore a couple of years back.
A bunch of us left when it was 'shut down', scattered and went to different forums. I started a group on facebook too. But nothing, nothing has been like it once was here. I still miss it and wish it could be like that again :(

I am a sceptic and there are things that bother me alot.
It astounds me that very few christians can admit to that. Very honest of you.

To answer my own original question, I have had an answer to prayer that was quite miraculous. It happened once. It is the unanswered ones that bother me.
It is for that reason that I lost my faith as a young child.

My mother was very abusive, my very first memory is of hiding under my grandfather's bed and of her yanking me out to beat me with a small board from the wood pile. Me and my sister went to church every Sunday, kneeled by our bed and prayed like good little girls each night, memorized bible verses, the whole deal.. but my nightly desperate and tearful prayers did not stop the nearly daily beatings. I came to the conclusion that there could not have been a God, for what God would allow a little girl to be repeatedly beaten by her mother? Especially when she is calling out for help?

I became an atheist for many a year, the quintessential angry type. But deep down I always knew there was something more. I don't see God as a white bearded vending machine up in the sky like I did as a child. Things are much more panentheistic in my view now. Anyway, as to the prayer question.. I don't do much of that anymore (for obvious reasons, lol). I try to see things from a wider view instead, meditation helps tremendously for that.

To me prayer is talking to God and meditation is listening. That may sound like a virtually meaningless difference, but such subtlety can be rather profound.
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 147
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Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 1:06:06 PM
Yes, I do remember the name Sassy Aquarius. I think we got into it a few times..lol. Both of you bring up many of the reasons I have doubts. Child abuse beingoneof them. Why would God not answer the cries of a child? I think this is a horrible world. There was a case on the news a couple of years back a woman having her face bitten off by a chimp. Recently some guy who thought he was a zombie did the same thing. Why would a loving God create such a world??? As for the Church, it is populated mostly by morons. They do not use critical thinking skills but hide behind a banner of "going in faith". As Alan mentions, there are verses that speak of moving mountains by faith yet we rarely see prayers answered. One of the most powerful scenes that I have ever seen in a motion picture was in the the film "Cool Hand Luke". He is standing out in the rain in a thunderstorm imploring God to love me hate me just let me know you are there. After a pause he says "just standing out here in the rain talking to myself". Something like that. I relate to that very much. yet despite all of this, I cannot discard what the Bible teaches. There is a God and He loves us. Maybe, like some say, the age of miracles is past. Maybe some of Jesus words were for that time alone. I have no idea. I have seen supernatural answers to prayer, I know that much. Recently, I have read several books, all written by 20 and 30 something women, who are questioning the Christian faith they were brought up in. The best of these is probably "Evolving in Monkey Town". It was excellent, and honest, and it pissed off some Christians. What Christians should be pissed off at is people like Benny Hinn and Creflo Dollar who give peopple false hope that they will be made whole or rich or whatever else they are promising. At any rate, I really cannot blame people for not believing, but that is not for me. I am not going to delude myself, but I will continue to look for reasons to believe no matter how hard it is.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 148
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 1:58:54 PM

Yes, I do remember the name Sassy Aquarius. I think we got into it a few times..lol.
We did indeed, but then.. who didn't? Lol.. That's part of what I loved in here, the ability to disagree without allowing the discussion to devolve into personal attacks. Some went that route, but they didn't last long. Hey if you're on Facebook btw, you are more than welcome to join the group I started years ago. It goes through spurts of activity and has many of the old famous players.. madfiddler, trippy, raven, dunrich, skypoet, etc..

There are many things in this world that I don't understand.. but I don't blame God for it. I don't see God as really being a part of it, only insofar as 'he' is inseparable from us. But my views aren't exactly mainstream.

As for not believing, I don't believe in the bible's version of God. There is some wisdom within its pages that I have found inspiring and have taken to heart. I promptly leave the rest as I do with all things that makes no sense to me. I don't think God can be limited to a book after all. But hey, that's Jmo after all.

Another thing that I believe is related to this topic is holding a positive vision for yourself or others.. that is not prayer, you are not asking anything from God, but it can have some very powerful effects. The law of attraction and all that..
 ComplekCity
Joined: 1/17/2011
Msg: 149
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 2:07:33 PM
Who really knows for sure ?

But hey, it's free and can't hurt, right ?

Besides, what else are you gonna do while the plane is falling ?
 ComplekCity
Joined: 1/17/2011
Msg: 150
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 2:08:31 PM
OOPS
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 151
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Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 4:05:45 PM
Prayer to God has the same efficacy as praying to milk jugs.

I often hear Christians tell me how God in his infinite glory does not intervene in our affairs because he believes in free will and is allowing satan to rule so that we can see how bad things are with satan in charge. After they tell me this, they pray - so that he will intervene.

Evidently, god will intervene but he will not intervene. This concept makes as much sense as every other one I learn about in christianity.
 balrog67
Joined: 4/1/2012
Msg: 152
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/20/2012 2:05:51 PM

So that's what the scriptures tell us about the power & limitations of prayer. Pray in Jesus' name & ask for whatever you want & it will be granted. If it isn't, then the scriptures are wrong or Jesus was lieing.


Then clearly they are wrong or Jesus was lying - as testified by the hundreds of thousands of children over the last 2000 years who fervently prayed to have their severed limbs replaced, or their sight restored, or their cancer cured who all had not only their prayers, but the prayers of the millions of loved ones involved - ignored.

Happily, Yahweh IS willing to answer the prayers of people who want the traffic to clear up so they're not late for work, or those who pray to win $50 on their scratch off ticket......
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