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 lagoda
Joined: 11/20/2009
Msg: 155
Does God answer prayer?Page 9 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
I just posted this quote in the Science/Philosophy thread and it's worth repeating here.

Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the gods.

Albert Einstein
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 156
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 4/16/2012 8:41:43 AM

I find it amazing that people can act as though they are an authority on the subject,


What is authoritative is what is written in the scriptures for anyone to read. If you ever bothered to read it; you'd probably understand why I said what I said. Whether or not you choose to accept such scripture is entirely up to you, but you'd first have to read it and understand it!

The title of this thread is: "Does God answer prayer". My view is on it that "god' can answer, dismiss, or postpone someones prayer for whatever reason, whether its obvious to us or not! If you rather hear or accept the reasoning of some (credentialed) authority figure on this matter then go right ahead; they are quite a few out there, just take your pick!
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 157
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 4/16/2012 8:24:55 PM

Right......
You forgot to mention God also won't answer any prayers for anything that needs His intervention to be granted


How do you know God hasn't done so? Do you honestly think that restoring an amputee or curing a paraplegic is something that God will allow to be aired out publicly, and thus turn these pple's lives into a 3 ring circus! And even if he did do it publicly; do you really think that it would be objective enough proof to convince the unbelievers? secondly, what use would God have for believers whose only basis for their belief is objectivity. That would be akin to some Gold-digger marrying you for your money, and constantly expecting you to dole out money upon request!


According to His Son, a person just needs a small amount of faith ( "if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you") to have their prayer answered. If only a small amount of prayer is needed to be able to move a mountain by praying for that to happen


the parable of the mustard seed is about overcoming life's hardships (the mountainous obstacles). It says that a believer needs to have a modicum of faith in order to overcome such obstacles. That is all it is intended to bring across. An amputee has access to the same grace that someone able bodied does and can overcome with the same amount of faith, without necesarily requiring that his lost limb need be restored in the process.


it's strange that no amount of prayer will restore someone's amputated limb.


If someone ever did; it would not ever be made apparent for reasons stated. So in your world, it isn't something that can even happen


Surely the Pope has enough faith


he does? what makes you so sure?
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 158
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 4/16/2012 10:45:11 PM

If someone is claiming prayer works, the onus is on them to prove their claim.


the actual claim is that prayer supposedly works for those who already believe or have faith. There is no "onus"(that I know of) on the part of christians that says that they obliged to demonstrate it to anyone upon request. The onus is on the believer to find out for himself.


because He cares about them too much to have them subjected to publicity.


that isn't what i said; go back and read well. I said that if Gd effects a "cure' for said pple; he would not allow it to become common knowledge, thus it will not be apparent. This can only be done supernaturally; thus non-believers can never know whether it is has been done or not, for reasons already stated.


Matthew 21:21 I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.


So then according to your logic; if you pray to have sex with your neighbor's wife; it should be granted to you as long as you pray for it in Jesus name? right!
firstly; you have a hard time discerning that which is metaphorical and what isn't. Secondly, these passages that you quote apply only to those enlightened enough to put his directives into practice. None of his closest apostles were able to do so while JC was alive.


What other world is there?


Try to pray on that, and see what kind of answer you get! What would be the harm?
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 159
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 4/16/2012 11:06:11 PM
Yule:
What is authoritative is what is written in the scriptures for anyone to read.
I assume you are referring to the bible with this.. so, which version? Translation? Interpretation.. ?

We do not have the original documents, only copies of copies of copies, ad infinitum.. all of them varying greatly. And we don't even know for certain who wrote much of it.. you call this authoritative??

If you ever bothered to read it; you'd probably understand why I said what I said. Whether or not you choose to accept such scripture is entirely up to you, but you'd first have to read it and understand it!
I find your assumptions here laughable. I not only have read it, I have read a couple of different versions as well. I have also read many other sacred texts that some consider authoritative. I don't like to limit myself.

The title of this thread is: "Does God answer prayer". My view is on it that "god' can answer, dismiss, or postpone someones prayer for whatever reason, whether its obvious to us or not! If you rather hear or accept the reasoning of some (credentialed) authority figure on this matter then go right ahead; they are quite a few out there, just take your pick!
My entire point is that NONE of us can speak as an authority on the matter. You would have to BE God in order to be so certain.. and there's a clinical diagnosis for such thought processes.
 Yule_liquor
Joined: 12/7/2011
Msg: 160
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 4/17/2012 5:37:36 AM
which version? Translation? Interpretation.


It does not matter a great deal as nearly all versions convey the same principles; it matters only to those who like to split hairs.


We do not have the original documents,


Then you've never heard of the "Q" manuscripts!


I not only have read it, I have read a couple of different versions as well


if you understood much of it (the NT) then you should be able to see the gist behind what I've said.


My entire point is that NONE of us can speak as an authority on the matter.


Where did I say i was an "authority" in my posts; I merely gave my POV, based on my understandings; Secondly, do you see anywhere in the Bible that orders its readers to become official "authorities" (if that is ever possible); or limits its access only to a certain group of elite priests, bishops, pastors, etc?


You would have to BE God in order to be so certain


So if I understand you correctly, you are inferring that only God can be "certain" of what is in the Bible; but He (god) nonetheless, allowed for it to be put together so none of us (humans) could ever be certain of what he meant! Now I get it!
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 161
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 4/17/2012 6:18:42 AM
Yule:
It does not matter a great deal as nearly all versions convey the same principles; it matters only to those who like to split hairs.
I strongly disagree. One little typo or omission can change the entire meaning of a sentence. In order to build a house, you have to make sure its foundation is solid.. faulty bricks built upon each other is not very stable. The myriad sects and beliefs within christianity is a testament to what I am saying.

Then you've never heard of the "Q" manuscripts!
Lol.. oh I haven't? Thanks for letting me know. But while we are on the topic.. where IS the Q document??

if you understood much of it (the NT) then you should be able to see the gist behind what I've said.
If you were basing what you have written on the NT, I fail to see where you have backed it up with scripture.

Where did I say i was an "authority" in my posts; I merely gave my POV, based on my understandings
Your post 199 certainly sounds as though you believe that you are some kind of prayer authority. Which I found laughable, as are your continued assumptions.

Secondly, do you see anywhere in the Bible that orders its readers to become official "authorities" (if that is ever possible); or limits its access only to a certain group of elite priests, bishops, pastors, etc?
I don't need the bible to guide my opinions.

So if I understand you correctly, you are inferring that only God can be "certain" of what is in the Bible; but He (god) nonetheless, allowed for it to be put together so none of us (humans) could ever be certain of what he meant! Now I get it!
Wow, I'm seeing the inherent futility here.

I quite clearly meant that you would have to be God in order to be so certain as to his intentions in regard to prayer. Which ones he supposedly answers and which he says no to and so forth.. to think that you know of a certainty which is which in such situations is nothing more than a projection of your own mind, and actually has very little to do with the bible you keep bringing up.
 ComplekCity
Joined: 1/17/2011
Msg: 162
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 4/17/2012 9:32:31 AM
If I pray for something and it doesn't happen does that mean God didn't answer ?
Or was the answer " No " ?

If I pray for something and it does happen does that mean the answer was " yes " ?
Or just coincidence ?
 balrog67
Joined: 4/1/2012
Msg: 163
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/6/2012 7:26:21 AM

I think God does answer our prayers, but not always in the way we want.


You mean like - A woman prays for her child to be cured of leukemia, and God answers by letting her win $50 on a scratch off ticket?

What possible use would anyone have for such a capricious deity?
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 164
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History
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/11/2012 12:38:49 AM
There is no evidence that the so-called "Q" document ever existed. It was the theory of someone who did not buy into the traditional Gospels. As far as translations go, no they do not vary all that much. And as far as copies of copies of copies....ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls? It was proof that copies did not vary much from the original.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 165
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/11/2012 9:54:48 AM
RDtoo (hi btw :)
as far as copies of copies of copies....ever hear of the Dead Sea Scrolls? It was proof that copies did not vary much from the original.
Yes I've heard of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and I don't think their existence does much to prove your point.. what originals.. ?

As far as translations go, no they do not vary all that much.
Surely you jest......

But I agree with Alan above, none of this has much to do with whether or not God answers prayer. The thread took that turn when someone acted as though he was an authority on the matter. In order to do so, it's best if you have something to back it up with. Not that that's even possible in this case.
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 166
view profile
History
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/11/2012 2:26:37 PM
No, it does not answer the question if God answers prayer or not, but I am the OP, and it wasn't me who veered off course. Can you give me an example of a couple of different translations in how they vary?
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 167
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/11/2012 3:04:09 PM
How about the amount of books included in the Ethiopian bible in comparison to say, the King James version?

The word hell is a fine example (only one mind you).. Sheol, Hades Gehenna.. which is it.. ? I don't believe any of these refer to eternal damnation.. which is of course, the modern usage of the term.

Are you able to point me to these originals that you have made reference to?
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 168
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History
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/11/2012 7:44:54 PM
A mistranslated word here and there does not put me in mind that translations vary all that much. Yes, there have been books found in the copies of the Bible that were later rejected. That makes sense to me. They did not have mass communications back then, so misinformation could have been passed on especially by the Gnostics who had their own agenda. There were not many people putting any stock whatsoever into the Gnostic books until about 20 years ago when opponents of Christianity made people think they were hidden for some reason. As far as originals go, no, I do not know of any originals, but that was not the point I was making in mentioning the Dead Sea Scrolls. There have been fragments of the Gospels from the 1st century found and what can be read seems to be what is in later copies. They even found a parody of the Gospel of Matthew a couple of years back that dated to 50AD. I started this thread because I am somewhat sceptical about what the Bible claims at times. I have never seen any convincing arguments that disprove it though.

Alan, as you enjoy Dawkins, you might like to read "the Dawkins Delusion" by Alistar McGrath. Then again you might not!
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 169
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Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/11/2012 7:53:49 PM
Sheol means the grave, Hades was the Greek Hell, I don't pay much attention. The Lake of Fire seems pretty clear. God Himself is referred to as a Consuming Fire in the Book of Hebrews. Kind of scary when you think of it.
 melodyof_k
Joined: 5/2/2012
Msg: 170
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/12/2012 1:56:35 AM
I believe that God answers prayers.
He has answered some of mine.
not for material things,..
but for inner peace and love.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 171
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/12/2012 9:02:16 AM

Sheol means the grave, Hades was the Greek Hell, I don't pay much attention. The Lake of Fire seems pretty clear. God Himself is referred to as a Consuming Fire in the Book of Hebrews. Kind of scary when you think of it.
None of them refer to eternal damnation, as is the modern understanding of the term. I'd say that translation is a MASSIVE difference. To name just ONE.
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 172
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Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 12:59:10 AM
So if none of them refer to eternal damnation, where is the variance? LOL.

Actually, I did not and do not intend to get into an on-going debate. I spent several years here debating these things and found most people here were not interested in knowing truth, but rather just engaged in one-upman-ship. I decided not to invest the time here anymore a couple of years back. Things like 2 different accounts of Creation in Genesis do not bother me. Why would it? I think there are alot of clues that the earth has a pre-history that we nor the Gnostics know anything about. The Bible gives alot of answers but is not exhaustive in answering everything. I am a sceptic and there are things that bother me alot. Reliablity of the manuscripts is not one of them.

To answer my own original question, I have had an answer to prayer that was quite miraculous. It happened once. It is the unanswered ones that bother me.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 173
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 10:51:41 AM

So if none of them refer to eternal damnation, where is the variance? LOL.
I've only stated it twice now- with the modern understanding of the term. What is preached in churches all across the continent does not match up with the original meaning of the terms because the original terms were all translated into the word hell. And we all know what that has come to mean.

I spent several years here debating these things
So did I.. you may remember sassyaquarius?

and found most people here were not interested in knowing truth
Whose version of it?

but rather just engaged in one-upman-ship.
That's all part of a good debate, I prefer more of a dialectic myself, but there's no need to quibble on semantics, lol..

I decided not to invest the time here anymore a couple of years back.
A bunch of us left when it was 'shut down', scattered and went to different forums. I started a group on facebook too. But nothing, nothing has been like it once was here. I still miss it and wish it could be like that again :(

I am a sceptic and there are things that bother me alot.
It astounds me that very few christians can admit to that. Very honest of you.

To answer my own original question, I have had an answer to prayer that was quite miraculous. It happened once. It is the unanswered ones that bother me.
It is for that reason that I lost my faith as a young child.

My mother was very abusive, my very first memory is of hiding under my grandfather's bed and of her yanking me out to beat me with a small board from the wood pile. Me and my sister went to church every Sunday, kneeled by our bed and prayed like good little girls each night, memorized bible verses, the whole deal.. but my nightly desperate and tearful prayers did not stop the nearly daily beatings. I came to the conclusion that there could not have been a God, for what God would allow a little girl to be repeatedly beaten by her mother? Especially when she is calling out for help?

I became an atheist for many a year, the quintessential angry type. But deep down I always knew there was something more. I don't see God as a white bearded vending machine up in the sky like I did as a child. Things are much more panentheistic in my view now. Anyway, as to the prayer question.. I don't do much of that anymore (for obvious reasons, lol). I try to see things from a wider view instead, meditation helps tremendously for that.

To me prayer is talking to God and meditation is listening. That may sound like a virtually meaningless difference, but such subtlety can be rather profound.
 RDtoo
Joined: 1/30/2005
Msg: 174
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Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 1:06:06 PM
Yes, I do remember the name Sassy Aquarius. I think we got into it a few times..lol. Both of you bring up many of the reasons I have doubts. Child abuse beingoneof them. Why would God not answer the cries of a child? I think this is a horrible world. There was a case on the news a couple of years back a woman having her face bitten off by a chimp. Recently some guy who thought he was a zombie did the same thing. Why would a loving God create such a world??? As for the Church, it is populated mostly by morons. They do not use critical thinking skills but hide behind a banner of "going in faith". As Alan mentions, there are verses that speak of moving mountains by faith yet we rarely see prayers answered. One of the most powerful scenes that I have ever seen in a motion picture was in the the film "Cool Hand Luke". He is standing out in the rain in a thunderstorm imploring God to love me hate me just let me know you are there. After a pause he says "just standing out here in the rain talking to myself". Something like that. I relate to that very much. yet despite all of this, I cannot discard what the Bible teaches. There is a God and He loves us. Maybe, like some say, the age of miracles is past. Maybe some of Jesus words were for that time alone. I have no idea. I have seen supernatural answers to prayer, I know that much. Recently, I have read several books, all written by 20 and 30 something women, who are questioning the Christian faith they were brought up in. The best of these is probably "Evolving in Monkey Town". It was excellent, and honest, and it pissed off some Christians. What Christians should be pissed off at is people like Benny Hinn and Creflo Dollar who give peopple false hope that they will be made whole or rich or whatever else they are promising. At any rate, I really cannot blame people for not believing, but that is not for me. I am not going to delude myself, but I will continue to look for reasons to believe no matter how hard it is.
 _shakti_
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 175
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 1:58:54 PM

Yes, I do remember the name Sassy Aquarius. I think we got into it a few times..lol.
We did indeed, but then.. who didn't? Lol.. That's part of what I loved in here, the ability to disagree without allowing the discussion to devolve into personal attacks. Some went that route, but they didn't last long. Hey if you're on Facebook btw, you are more than welcome to join the group I started years ago. It goes through spurts of activity and has many of the old famous players.. madfiddler, trippy, raven, dunrich, skypoet, etc..

There are many things in this world that I don't understand.. but I don't blame God for it. I don't see God as really being a part of it, only insofar as 'he' is inseparable from us. But my views aren't exactly mainstream.

As for not believing, I don't believe in the bible's version of God. There is some wisdom within its pages that I have found inspiring and have taken to heart. I promptly leave the rest as I do with all things that makes no sense to me. I don't think God can be limited to a book after all. But hey, that's Jmo after all.

Another thing that I believe is related to this topic is holding a positive vision for yourself or others.. that is not prayer, you are not asking anything from God, but it can have some very powerful effects. The law of attraction and all that..
 ComplekCity
Joined: 1/17/2011
Msg: 176
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 2:07:33 PM
Who really knows for sure ?

But hey, it's free and can't hurt, right ?

Besides, what else are you gonna do while the plane is falling ?
 ComplekCity
Joined: 1/17/2011
Msg: 177
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 2:08:31 PM
OOPS
 rockondon
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 178
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History
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/13/2012 4:05:45 PM
Prayer to God has the same efficacy as praying to milk jugs.

I often hear Christians tell me how God in his infinite glory does not intervene in our affairs because he believes in free will and is allowing satan to rule so that we can see how bad things are with satan in charge. After they tell me this, they pray - so that he will intervene.

Evidently, god will intervene but he will not intervene. This concept makes as much sense as every other one I learn about in christianity.
 balrog67
Joined: 4/1/2012
Msg: 179
Does God answer prayer?
Posted: 6/20/2012 2:05:51 PM

So that's what the scriptures tell us about the power & limitations of prayer. Pray in Jesus' name & ask for whatever you want & it will be granted. If it isn't, then the scriptures are wrong or Jesus was lieing.


Then clearly they are wrong or Jesus was lying - as testified by the hundreds of thousands of children over the last 2000 years who fervently prayed to have their severed limbs replaced, or their sight restored, or their cancer cured who all had not only their prayers, but the prayers of the millions of loved ones involved - ignored.

Happily, Yahweh IS willing to answer the prayers of people who want the traffic to clear up so they're not late for work, or those who pray to win $50 on their scratch off ticket......
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