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Show ALL Forums  > Single Parents  > ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Rocknrob
Joined: 6/18/2005
Msg: 51
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ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out? Page 3 of 34    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34)
I didnt mean that Fiengold was good for everyone, but I gotta say from people I have talked to it has worked for them. All I am trying to say is try it first before going to meds.
 CaringClownfish
Joined: 11/24/2005
Msg: 52
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/25/2005 1:10:00 PM
Like I said before, it is an individual thing......diet may not work for all depending on the root of the REAL problem ....and by the way Overit50, my graduate internship and the bulk of my training was in brain injury and substance abuse....not a doctor, but have LOTS of first hand experience and knowledge about the brain.

Also, I realize that Medication may not work for everyone either....although, lets not throw the baby out with the bath water...

I applaud the moms who did their homework and got second and maybe even third opinions before deciding to go ahead with ANY given treatment.....because what may have worked for one, doesn't necessarily work for EVERYONE.

And by the way Overit50, dietary changes have proven extremely beneficial in improving (NEVER DID I SAY CURING) many conditions/symptoms...including conditions stemming from the brain.....learned that froma neurosurgeon.....so argue that point with him.

AGAIN, I strongly think it is an INDIVIDUAL thing....but I know for sure ADHD/ADD are REAL conditions and my hopes are that the people who either suffer from either of them or have a loved one who does, get the best treatment and help for their particular circumstance.

Again, I applaud the people on here who have struggled with this and have done their all to find the best solution for their individual circumstance!
 smpackage
Joined: 8/3/2005
Msg: 53
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/25/2005 1:59:06 PM
Some doctors just give out the medications to the kids. But there truely are kids out there that need it and when it's properly diagnosed they are not zombies. It will help them. But when it comes down to the parents just not wanting to deal with kids who may be hyper from sugar or even natural sugar (fruits) then it's just a load of crap. My youngest can get very hyper and out of control if he has a lot of natural sugar...bananas, oranges. I just make sure he has them when he can be hyper ya know? I've seen a parent who had twin girls who were at the time 4 years old and both on medication, but at the sametime she's buying them candy bars. Let's take the time to look at diets and discipline. Not just jump into medication.
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 54
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/25/2005 2:41:10 PM
I totally agree with you smpackage. I have seen the same. My friend that has the 13 year old he is very hyper but sometimes she will buy him energy drinks, or he will sneak when he is at friends houses and buy them. OMG he is like a little Demon child then.
We call 6 pm the witching hour for him because his meds are wearing off and he just gets really hateful and mean sometimes. I try not to be around to much after that time.
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 55
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/25/2005 3:53:37 PM
Caringclownfish,

Reread what I wrote. I think you misunderstood. Nowhere have I said that diet is not to be explored in the treatment of any systemic disease. What I said is that it is not a supported treatment for the disease. A recent poster said that he tried a certain diet that works for everyone and that it cured his gastroenteritis/obesity so it shoul also cure ADHD and then states in his profile that beer is one of his favorite foods. This is magical thinking at its best.

We are pretty much on the same page but I find your thinking a little unclear. If you've studied public health administration, you would rethink posting the following:


it is an individual thing......diet may not work for all depending on the root of the REAL problem [/unquote]

It's an individual thing. Isn't everything when it comes to biological systems? So, what do you personally use as an indicator of when to recommend that a patient needs a change in diet and when it's contrainidicated? (Now there's a new concept for pseudoscientific practitionrers, contraindication. Probably doesn't exist in their lexicon. Or at least until somebody dies.) Trial and error? Would you be comfortable with a psychiatrist who decided whether or not to prescribe anti-psychotics on that same basis? Or do you feel that it's OK to bandy about advice about diets and not worry about the results until the patient finally builds up enough confidence or despair to say that the prescriber's hallowed suggestion doesn't work? Because quacks are usually not practicing MDs, they are free to play around with patients' non-medicational behavior and get away with so much more than a practicing MD would.



my graduate internship and the bulk of my training was in brain injury and substance abuse....not a doctor, but have LOTS of first hand experience and knowledge about the brain

learned that froma neurosurgeon.....so argue that point with him


Brain injury...substance abuse...neurosurgery. Do these have anything to do with idiopathic neurotransmitter imbalance treatment, epidemiology, risk assessment, psychiatry, drug safety/efficacy testing? NO. Thanks for your experience but you neglected to include your personal and your neurosurgeon friend's statistics such as how many people you've treated, how many of those you advised to change their diet, how many successes, how many failures, how many people didn't come back. I love success stories. One, two, twenty. But when the population is several million, these stories become statistically insignificant. My guess is that you didn't keep these records and, if you did, a careful review would not support your arguments.



dietary changes have proven extremely beneficial in improving (NEVER DID I SAY CURING) many conditions/symptoms...including conditions stemming from the brain


Now you've used my favorite word, "Proven". It's my favorite word because it means that you can post proof. That is, there are peer-reviewed double-blinded studies that prove that the reduction or elimination of specific substances from the diet of psychotic patients produces relief of a specific symptom(s). Please post. I posted a few earlier that directly contradict what you wrote but I could be wrong. NIH could be wrong. The American Psychicatric Association could be wrong. UVA Med School could be wrong. it's your turn to post these studies.


That's what real science demands, fish, not happy stories. You and I are probably on the same page. I would, as most of the doctors I've met, use neuroleptics only as a last resort. First you try behavioral therapy (regimentation and discipline). Then you try secondary stimuli (environmental, DIETARY, psychological). Only when you eliminate what you can control do you go after what you can't control. And that would be to try to bring the neurotransmitters back into balance.

If you can't tell, I don't like it when people spout nonsense that (1) irresponsibly raises false hopes among those afflicted and (2) don't realize/care about what they could be doing to these families or patients. How would you feel if upon reading your post, a parent who is in denial that their child has ADHD would start their child on the zillions of alternate diet therapies that can be found in quack publications and do so unsystematically? What if these same parents deceived themselves that the child was actually progressing acceptably because they were not using an unbiased, objective measure of the symptoms and duped themselves that the kid was OK?

To all, find a good clinician who can guide you through the maze of alternatives for your child. First thing is to regulate the child's environment so that you know it's not abuse, inconsistency, or other stressors. Second is to try to eliminate possible contributors you can control (diet, lighting, activities, etc.) A responsible clinician would then and only then recommend using drugs to control the child's behavior. Don't believe that a diet will be the whole answer. Just like medication isn't the whole answer.
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 56
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/26/2005 5:37:32 AM
http://www.adders.org/
This is a online support group. If you google add, adhd support groups it comes up with some.
Good luck.
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 57
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/26/2005 9:37:08 AM
Stumber,

Read what I wrote, not what you want to read. I think you and I are on the same side but you've decided to rely on only one leg of a many-legged stool.
 CaringClownfish
Joined: 11/24/2005
Msg: 58
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 9:58:38 AM
Thanks for your input, Stumbler
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 59
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 3:00:39 PM

Read what I wrote. I think it's more your approach than the content that is knocking the stool over.


Stumbler and clownfish,

If you can't communicate your thoughts, don't bother me. If you have something to say, say it. Don't keep us all guessing. Let us in on your wisdom. We're all dying to fing out what was wrong in what I wrote.

Stumbler: It's GIGO. That's what you were looking for.

Clownfish: Am I the first person who has not fallen for your "I'm the expert here" routine?

Be well. Write in complete sentences to express your thoughts lucidly or not at all.
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 60
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 3:03:59 PM
Mschickie,

You are right. If anyone is getting their kid treated by an MD who is not a licensed psychiatrist, change that immediately. You may also want to run the psychiatrist's name by the higher ups at your kid's school as they know who the goods ones are.
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 61
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 3:08:49 PM
Overit50 I wrote this thread to help people with the problems that they find with Drs, teachers and other people that to quickly want to say "the kid is adhd or add, here is some pills get over it!!" Not for you to want to fight with people in here. I was in hopes that this would be a support for some people not a **** fest like so many other forums are in here.
So please don't be so negative!
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 62
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 3:23:44 PM
Sorry, Jessika

Didn't mean to start a brawl. I was trying to pose a counter-argument to the many "no, not pills; here's some organic lettuce" crowd. Both approaches are ridiculous and people aught to know better but many don't.

I am a scientist, Jessika. I feel it is my responsibility to interject what I know that may help other people when the opportunity arises. Is that not what these threads are all about? If I started my own thread can I keep people who believe in ghosts, auras, ESP, alien abduction, therapeutic touch, homeopathy, and all the other unscientific/illogical nonsense off my thread? Why don't you, and whomever objects to what I wrote, quote where I am wrong, write down your arguments and post evidence like I did?

No more ad hominems, deal?

I'm not going away, especially as I am the only one here saying what I'm saying. Prove it wrong.
 CaringClownfish
Joined: 11/24/2005
Msg: 63
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 4:17:56 PM
Thanks Jessika, I was trying to be encouraging and supportive of others....just seems like overit50's pages of so called "interjections" are condescending and argumentative....

...I, too, thought the purpose of the thread was to encourage and build others up, not tear them down.

If we are on the same page like you said Overit50, then why argue????

I'm not sure you clearly read or even understood me or anyone else on here.....and then spent all that time squabbling about a point that isn't really related to what was originally asked.

Again, I commend those parents/individuals who are doing their homework and making an informed decision based on their individual needs and situation....whether that be medication, therapy, and .....yes...diet!!!!.......or any combination of those things.

ADD/ADHD is a real thing............and I commend those who struggle with it.....!!!
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 64
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 5:08:06 PM
Well, the way I feel about this is YES add and adhd is a real thing. HOWEVER there is a lot of people, Parents, teachers and DRs. that don't look at the whole picture. They just say well her is a pill go take it and all will be right. They also need to look at diet and everything else as well. Enviroment for one, diet for another. If a child is upset and the parents or teachers are to busy or just don't give a shit then the child may act out in a way that will mimmic adhd or add. Also there is kids that are alergic to certain dyes and they can mimmic adhd or add (I was one of those children!!)

There is children that need to be on meds I agree whole hearted about that. But I have also seen children that don't need meds and if the parents and teachers and other adult role models would just look at the intire picture they would see that. I have also seen parents that hand there children candy as a reward and then wonder why is my child so hyper.
I believe everyone on here has done everything they could to help there children so please don't think that I am talking about anyone on here. If you didn't care you wouldn't have posted in the first place.
 Guitarmanou812
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 65
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 5:28:26 PM
Overit50.

Quackwatch.com and other sites like it are put up by Big Pharma to dispute natural cures. Big Pharma looses money if you dont take drugs. Naturally they want to disprove anything that would hurt drug sales. Why do you think 50% of the commercials on TV are for drugs? Its big money pal.

There are Natural cures for every ailment you could have.

Doctors are taught to do two things. Prescribe medicine, and cut off body parts. Doctors make tons of money from kickbacks and "favors" from the Pharma companys.

Big Pharma is the plauge of the 21st century.

Why is there no research proving that natural cures work? Because there is no money in it. Its all about money.

When you say your a scientist you loose all creditabilty with me. Science is what started all this unatural crap in the first place.

Scientist invented, Nuclear Bombs, Germ Warfare, thousands of chemicals that will never biodegrade. Now they have to invent diesease so there will be more reasons to invent new drugs to treat the dieseases they invent.
More money for research!
More reasons to make money.

Your just part of the machine pal!

Its always about the money!
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 66
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 5:43:11 PM
Clownfish,

More ad hominem. Chill. Read what you wrote:


....and by the way Overit50, my graduate internship and the bulk of my training was in brain injury and substance abuse....not a doctor, but have LOTS of first hand experience and knowledge about the brain.



And by the way Overit50, dietary changes have proven extremely beneficial in improving (NEVER DID I SAY CURING) many conditions/symptoms...including conditions stemming from the brain.....learned that froma neurosurgeon.....so argue that point with him.


You wrote this because I posted that there is no possible way diet can treat a neurological imbalance. Zip. Nada. No way. I did not mention your name at all. I wasn't even thinking about you when I posted so what I wrote that ticked you off or that you thought needing rebuttal is beyond me. I'm not even going to apologize because, as you claim to have some expertise in this field, you should know that what I wrote is true.

But you would say "Aha! but dietary changes have had beneficial effects in some cases!" True enough, but that amelioration has more to do with domestic discipline and basic nutrition than the disease itself.

Are you one of those I did single out as believing that diet alone can have miraculous effects? Didn't think so. That's the crowd I was targeting. Was it because my post showed up right after yours that you thought I was targeting you? I wasn't targeting you and I have no control of when my posts appear. That's one of the shortcomings of message boards. Frankly, your posts have been so bland and banal that there is nothing to attack! So you applaud people. So you commend people. So you are not one of the ignorami who deny that ADD/ADHD/etc exists. Why would I quarrel with any of that?

Every day and every year, families of the afflicted and sometimes the afflicted themselves are victimized by con artists and, sometimes, the well-meaning into spending considerable amounts of their money in untried/untested/phony panaceas. I've seen it. You've seen it. I believe that, by offering a testimonial to switching to a sensible diet (most times this is all it takes) without counterbalancing with the admonition to take a wholistic approach to psychosis is irresponsible and you should not do it. You do people little service by trying to "uplift" them without also informing them.

Then what I did is maybe react too strongly to what you wrote. I did believe that, by posting your credentials and mentioning that you knew a neurosurgeon, you were attacking my credentials. Which, by the way, are better than yours plus a hundred neurosurgeons on this topic but we needn't get into that type of war here, right? I know this for a fact because you have still not countered my posted literature references with any of your own. And, a scientist would never post a central point that they got from someone else (especially one who isn't there) and tell the reader to take it up with them.

Clownfish, I'm a scientist. You claim to be one. Why are you so hypersensitive to the manner in which scientists communicate? Why did you think I was contradicting you? Frankly, I wish you had written something, anything that was worth rebutting.

So, there, that's the end of it. You and your friends can continue attacking me if you want. I don't care. I will continue posting and that's that. If you don't like my posts, quote where I'm wrong and rebut them with something other than your outrage. I am not always right and I will retract anything I can't back up with data. You? Your buddies?
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 67
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 5:51:27 PM
Who is attacking you. I wanted this to be a friendly helpful thread, then you came around and you have turned it in to yet another negative thread. THANKS overit50. It is so sad that parents that are concerned about there children can't even go to something positive with out someone like you $hitting on it!!! There now I have said my peace.
OT: Love your kids get all the facts and look in to it before you put your child on a medication that isn't needed.
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 68
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 6:10:28 PM
Clownfish, this is the real genius I was reacting to but I'm too polite to point out the ignorant until they try to take me on.

Guitarman

What's the herbal remedy for your paranoia?

Big money? How much do purveyors of "food supplements" (vitamins, herbal treatments, anything you think is great) make every year? Lots and lots. And it's almost all profit. No reinvestment at all. The pharma companies tell you how much they make. Will your herbal hucksters? No.

OK, since there is an herbal cure for any disease, please post the herbal cure for emphysema, colitis, eczema, common cold (cure, not treatment). Then post proof that it is effective more than 75% of the time.

Since you are not an MD and you do not teach at a medical school, excuse me for not relying on your assessment of what goes on therein.

You are partially correct in why there is little research on what you think of as "natural cures". (If that is so, how did you become such an expert?) The reason is that the effect of known naturally occuring substances are already known. If they were curative, big pharma would be out of business. (Think about that, guitarman.) But you are ignorant of the fact tht every year millions are spent in trying to find natural substances that have even a mild effect on a disease. Often, these effects can be amplified by changing the chemical structure of these substances slightly but this is not as easy as it sounds. It takes a lot of reseach and fooling with any molecule, natural or synthetic, to produce the molecule(s) that are the most efficacious toward a disease with the least detrimental side-effects to humans. (Read up on Hansch Analysis, genius.)

And, frankly, I have no interest in having any credibility with you. Science is the root of all evil? Tell me what exactly you're using to post your idiocy to this group on. What makes your van go? How do you even know that those herbal treatments have any effect? Go drink water out of the river and see what happens to you. (No? Why not? What do you know and how did you learn it?) Then you can go to the emergency room and beg for one of the corrupt physicians to treat you with ill-gotten medicines.

People like you make me laugh, guitarman, so I'm glad you're around. What a great world we would have if you decided for the rest of us. There would be no need to worry about cancer because we'd all die by the age 30. We could all wonder when the next pandemic would come around to kill most of the people we know and not know how to prevent it.

Part of a system? I just try do do my part to improve the world. You? Never mind, just go back to sleep.
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 69
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 6:25:54 PM
Now I have to teach people how to read! Here goes but I'm not hopeful:


Who is attacking you.

Caringclownfish. She tried to rebut something I wrote that she misunderstood and mentioned my nic in her post. If you have trouble understanding what I just wrote, read it over but more slowly.


I wanted this to be a friendly helpful thread...

I tried. Do you want the participants to go away believing that lettuce will cure Johnny's ADHD? If so, start your own site and allow only simpletons to participate. I believe that some people may have been warned not to trust diet-only and med-only therapists. What you got out of it, god only knows.


There now I have said my peace.

Good. Can the rest of us talk now? It's "piece" by the way.
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 70
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 6:58:26 PM
Paradisequeen,

If you want to get involved on a one-to-one basis, e-mail me. I am not seeking judgement from you and what you want to know is no one else's business. And, frankly, if reading anything makes you furious, you need help.

The professionals who treat my kid consider me a model parent so I don't really care what you think. I've really not had this problem with any other crowd I've been on message boards with so maybe I'm not the problem. I take care of my son just fine, thanks, and I must add that he doesn't get short-shrifted by any of his caregivers so my approach is fairly successful. I have a wonderful rapport with these professionals as well, thanks for asking. I've been asked to be a parents/children's advocate and I intend to do so when I have the time. If you don't think I'll be effective, you don't know me well enough.

And...I did not realize I was writing to children with ADHD or ADD. I thought I was dealing with adults on this board but I may have been mistaken. I wrote what I wrote and all I have gotten back is personal attacks. Not one syllable of rebuttal, only messages like yours that I am not who I should be.

Really, I care little. I'm considered an authority in my field by people who are also authorities in my field. I will continue to post. I don't suffer fools gladly. Yes, I'm considered a very nice guy by most and many people seek me out. I don't attract idiots and I don't plan to take it up now.
 Guitarmanou812
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 71
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:22:26 PM

I'm considered an authority in my field by people who are also authorities in my field.


That pretty much sums it up right there!

Now someone outside of your field thinks your full of it!

BTW, explain how accupunture works to me. Let me guess, accupuncture cant work because there is no scientific explanation. Right?

Tell that to a billion screaming chinamen!

OK class, todays word is hopeless.
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 72
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/27/2005 7:31:11 PM
"sigh" It is really sad that people that where here being positive and helping one another has to listen to someone that is so negative as overit50. I wish all of you good luck with your children and the problems that they have with the add/or adhd. I really feel for you guys, and I wish all of you good luck.
 CaringClownfish
Joined: 11/24/2005
Msg: 73
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/28/2005 4:41:42 PM
Jessika and all those who had positive/encouraging threads to share,

This thread wasn't in vain and in spite of at least one negative individual, has been encouraging.....I for one, have benefited from your threads, paradisequeen's thread and other individual's threads as well.

I am very glad you posted this thread and don't think for a minute that it was in vain.

As for you Overit50, I think you have a bit too much time on your hands and are running out of college reference books to copy info out of!!!!

And let me guess....you haven't found a date on here yet?????

One can only wonder why, Overit50???????

Sorry Jessika......I just was dying to say that to him!!!
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 74
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/28/2005 4:46:04 PM
Thanks, although I don't have a child with this I have to see it from my best friends children everyday and I see what she goes threw. I pray for her every night.
I am glad this thread has helped and I encourage you all to keep posting. The positive will out weigh the negative. I HOPE.
 CaringClownfish
Joined: 11/24/2005
Msg: 75
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/28/2005 4:55:55 PM


You go girl!!!!!

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