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Show ALL Forums  > Single Parents  > ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 CaringClownfish
Joined: 11/24/2005
Msg: 101
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out? Page 5 of 34    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34)
Overit,

You don't mean to make anyone feel inferior????

You are kidding right???

I'm so glad that you cleared all of that up....and to think, I just thought ya had a little crush on me or something....hee, hee.
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 102
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/30/2005 5:32:58 PM
I really hope that no one would make anyone feel inferior on here or anywhere else. That is just beyond me how people can treat others like that.

I am glad everyone is still posting and I am glad to see everyone is getting along.
 shylady33
Joined: 7/10/2005
Msg: 103
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/30/2005 10:06:39 PM
I have an ADHD child and I tried every other thing to try to help her get better and nothing worked I took away sugar watched what she ate I would punish her all the time and nothing i did worked until i took her to the doctor and they put her on meds and I to didnt want a zombie child and it took a while to find the right med so she could function without being like a zombie But when we found the one that works best with her she is doing so much better she is now getting the sleep she so much needed that she didnt get before because she would only sleep a couple hours a night and during the day she was so hyper from being so over tired that she became mean and hurtful to others she was always in trouble but now with the medication she is like a normal child she still is a little on the hyper side but she focuses better and listens better and sleeps through the night now and she is alot nicer to people now ..I am thankful for the medication it made my daughter be able to function better everyday now she has friends and everything before she started meds no one wanted to be around her..But now she is very likable and loveable...And i do agree meds arn't always the answer but if u try everything else and it doesnt work then it's time to try the meds..
ONE more thing Bipolar and Adhd have a lot of similar symtoms..Sorry about the spelling but I type fast and don't have time to go back and correct it..
 shylady33
Joined: 7/10/2005
Msg: 104
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 11/30/2005 10:09:01 PM
That product Focus I believe is a scam Because I tried it and it didn't work for my child and i never got my money back...But every kid is different but don't count on getting money back if it doesnt work..
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 105
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/1/2005 4:17:28 AM
Wow, Smileyme, your kid sounds like my first child on steroids.

My first had colic and would cry all the time. My then-wife would carry him around all day and I would carry him around in the evenings then I would sleep in a rocking chair, rocking him whenever he woke up. We had to pass him off back and forth like that until he was about one year old. He didn't break stuff like your kid so you have an extreme case of whatever it is that's troubling him. We also tried to leave him in a room to cry himself out but all that did was build up his lung capacity.

I strongly disagree with you that meds are used just to shut these kids up or, frankly, a different type of medication would be used. That is, there are more effective ways of caliming humans down than giving them stimulants.

I had no idea that the availability of good medical care was so sparse where you live in Canada. I can see why you don't trust the doctors if you can only see them once a year. That's not anyhwere frequently enough for (1) you to build the type of working relationship you need to have and (2) homing in on the right mix of behavioral therapy and meds (if required) to bring your son to the edge. What I mean by the edge is that's where a good med plan will take your child, not zombie-land. A proper med program will give the child that additional measure of self-control that they are capable of behaving. Pills won't make your kid behave. The wrong combination of meds will make your kid a zombie and it's not what anyone wants.

It took a long, long time to find the right combo of meds for each of my sons and that was done by findnig a pediatrician/counselor/psychiatrist team that we could trust and worked together well and then shlepping the poor kid back and forth so many times he complained of "carseat burn". Finally, both of them are at the edge so that they are manageable and can make up their own minds whether or not to behave. Unfortunately, the little one still decides to misbehave too often but at least he's like a normal kid now.

Whatever you decide, I hope it works for you. When dealing with my kids, I drew the line for my own treatment preferences at the point where my kid had to pay for my attitude rather than myself. (I don't like giving my kid meds and never will. I wish the whole thing would go away by itself.) That is, at some point, your child will start suffering from lack of effective treatment to a point where you and dedicated teachers won't be able to effectively shield him. He won't be able to sit still long enough to learn effectively and his peer group will shun him. If he is impulsive, he may put himself in harm's way. Kids like this get very frustrated and develop a self-disrespect that will haunt them their entire lives.

Whatever you decide or land on, good luck to you. Your child sounds like an extreme case. What I can tell you and agree with you on is that you need better access to good medical care. I also wouldn't put my kid on meds if I could only see his specialist once a year. That's not good enough. You need almost constant communication with a good treatment team to get your kid where he needs to be...and then the kid changes (grows, enters a new phase, etc) so the cycle really doesn't end until about the late teens. And then there are other problems.

Best of luck. Write back and let us know how Focus is working. Anything is worth a try because these kids are truly at risk.
 blue3535
Joined: 9/22/2005
Msg: 106
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/1/2005 6:40:19 AM
i have two children with adhd and one with add and yesit is very real. wihtout thier meds for this they are ten times worse either very hyper and out of control or very laid back and a couch potato. with the meds they are more laid back and down to earth not bouncing off hte walls or on the couch in front of hte tv or video games. so yes guys and gals it is very real i live it daily with my three kids. but keep in mind htat it is often misdiganosed as depression.
 christmom
Joined: 11/30/2005
Msg: 107
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/1/2005 10:07:03 AM
My oldest son is 19 and isnt on meds for his bipolar,adhd and he no longer lives at home.He hears voices and hurts himself sometimes and needs to be.My 15 year old is on meds for bipolar,adhd and odd and is doing much better. I do agree that drs are too quick to put them on meds and some kids are missed diagnosed.In his case though he had trouble sleeping even as an infant,never sat still and has trouble concentrating.Some children are just naturally hyper because they are children and I believe dont require meds, they just need time to get out of that stage.Others when they are generally good kids but cant seem to think,sleep or even sit for more than five minutes do need help.Younger children cant sit still its not in their nature.Some things are personality traits and others arent normal and they need to have more testing to determine according to their age what is appropriate for their age and what isnt.I also agree too though that there are some kids out there that just need a good old fashioned whipping,while others dont get enough attention from their parents and are acting up to get it.
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 108
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/1/2005 3:45:18 PM

on the couch in front of hte tv or video games.


Just a question. Why do you let them sit in front of the tv/or video games why don't you do projects with them or have them play outside or take them for a bike ride or walk? I know with my daughter there isn't allowed any gaming systems just because I don't want her to be that way. She either plays outside or does something constructive, and when my nephew is with me there isn't allowed any games brought here either. Not trying to put you down just a suggestion.
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 109
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/2/2005 5:37:46 AM
I use sleepy time tea I am not sure the maker of it. But my daughter when it is bed time she gets really hyper. Her way of fighting her sleep. If she would just lay down for a min she would be asleep but she wants to play with the kitten or draw a picture or something so she doesn't have to go to bed. Well, I started having her take a bath not a shower at night then I fix her a glass of the sleepy time tea. Sometimes I will put it in a sippy cup so after the warm bath she is relaxed and I make her sit down and read a book. Or draw a picture but she has to sit there and drink her tea, normally in bed. Notice I said sippy cup. . Anyways this really works to calm her down. Try putting lavender bath wash in the tub too. Johnson and Johnson has some but you can buy it cheaper too.

Tea is wonderful for all sorts of things. If you are sick to your stomach drink peppermint tea.
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 110
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/2/2005 1:31:51 PM
Cutie,

My younger son takes clonidine at night to knock him out. Even though this stuff would knock out a horse, I have to strictly control his environment or he will defeat the meds. Unless I make sure the place is as quiet as possible with no TV, no music, not a lot of light, he will (not can) be able to keep himself away until the effect of the medicine is gone. If he does that, all is lost and neither one of us sleeps.

Someone told me about a friend of hers who has a kid that' so hyper, not even meds will make him sleep. He stays up and plays with the pots and pans all night but will blessedly konk out about every third day. Now, that's trouble.
 blue3535
Joined: 9/22/2005
Msg: 111
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/2/2005 2:12:11 PM
well jessika its not htat i let them sit in front of the tv or play video games he was pretty much a couch potato no matter what i said or did to try ot get him motivated he wouldnt do it so ihad him tested for add and sure enough he is and since he has been on his meds he is completely different and now a 4.0 student and looking into colleges and he is only in the tenth grade. as far as the video games go that was his brother before he moved out he is 18 and he is not o nly adhd he is also bipolar with a uncontrolled anger disorder so there was only so much i could sya or do it finally got ot the point i had to tell him either start respecting me and his brother and sister which is adhd as well and look for a job or get out and he moved out and in with his 38 year old girlfriend which i do not approve of at all i mean come on he is 18 there is a 20 year age difference there if it was 5 or ten i wouldnt care but give me a break so u se its not like i let them.
 friday_nooner
Joined: 3/30/2005
Msg: 112
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/2/2005 2:47:09 PM
95% cop out 5% real....our parents didn't have ridelin and they lived hell i am not even a murder or nothing..i guess they just step up as parents and put the playstation away lol
 sixfeetoffun
Joined: 11/30/2005
Msg: 113
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/2/2005 5:37:11 PM
There are actually two disorders in the DSM (a diagnostic manual for shrinks) that are called add and adhd. ADHD children are very hyperactive, have a hard time making friends, and have difficulties in school. Their little minds change "channels" very quickly. They simply do not have the ability to focus on one thing for too long. It can be a chemical problem. ADD on the other hand is the same thing without the hyperactivity it is found more in adults than in children, it is the so called adult adhd. Oh and kids under 18 cannot take antidepressants because it will make the symptoms worse. Pulled out my abnormal psych book for this one!!
 sixfeetoffun
Joined: 11/30/2005
Msg: 114
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/2/2005 5:50:31 PM
To shylady33 the BIG i mean huge difference between bi-polar and adhd is that with adhd they are allways hyper. With bipolar they go through stages of hyper activity and depression depending on the type. I believe there are 3 types, bipolar 1, bipolar two, and cyclothymic disorder. ADHD is neurological and bipolar is chemical. Bipolar I is full mania or hyperactivity and full depression, bipolarII is major depression and mild mania, cyclothymia is mild depression and mild mania. There are two treatment methods available for the parents who don't want a medicated child, medication or behavioral therapy. Check out your options, just don't let them put your little angel on antidepressants they make it worse if the child is under 18.
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 115
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/2/2005 8:12:16 PM
Shadow, everyone has a right to there opinion. What he was saying I think is children that have this do need a little more disapline. Not whipped every time but constant reminders. And stuff like that. But you need to disipline children with adhd and add too. Not say oh well, he/she is just acting up because of this. Children pick up on this quickly and they will blame everything on it and won't take responsibility for there own actions later on.
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 116
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/3/2005 6:33:19 AM
Yes there is a huge difference. Whipping a child is not child abuse at all. You whip there buts nothing else and you don't go to far. I agree guitarman there is times a whipping is warrented.
My daughter got the occasional smack on the butt when she was younger she is now 7 and hasn't had a whipping in probably a year. My daughter knows that she is loved more then life it's self when it comes to me. I tell her all of the time.
Shoot when I was a kid if I looked at my mom the wrong way I was getting smacked in the mouth or a belt taken to my ass. It feels real good when you have braces and smacked accrosed the mouth because you asked if you could go to a friends house and she was drunk and didn't want to hear you. Now that is child abuse shawdow!! Not the occasional smack on the bum.
 unicorn10123
Joined: 11/28/2005
Msg: 117
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/3/2005 10:18:52 AM
Guitarmanou812 You have no Idea what you are talking about.
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 118
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/3/2005 10:49:33 AM
Oceanpearl,

Your post is full of personal observation but you have to beware of forming your opinion on where you work as opposed to national trends. Keep in mind that ADHD and ADD are syndromes that have only been recognized recently and, as such, medical treatment for them is still in it infancy. I am very sure that you are correct that, depending on the quality of psychiatric services in a given area, many (but not most) kids are misdiagnosed. (The symptoms of childhood depression dovetail with ADD and ADHD in many places.) You are right in that the only way to really make sure that diagnoses become more finely tuned is by monitoring the MD's activities, compare them to known norms, and retrain the MDs as necessary.

As far as ADD and ADHD being a disease of the wealthy, it just isn't so. At least not in the US but I don't think that the populations of the US and Canada are that far different. The CDC actually reports that the occurence of ADD and ADHD is higher in low-income families than higher-income families (http://tinyurl.com/82fp3). This surprised me too and I had to investigate your claim further as these diseases are full of myths. I felt that you were probably right as far as treatment is concerned and that the ADD/ADHD kids of lower-income families, having less educated parents, would resort to controlling them by physical punishment than with medical treatment. I am glad to see that I was wrong (as were you) and most parents realize, at least after maybe trying to beat this thing out of their kids, that brutality is not an effective treatment for idiopathic diseases.

What you could be seeing is an artifact of where your hospital is located. Is it more expensive than most hospitals? Is it located closer to an affluent area than a low-income area? Do the admissions personnel favor only patients with health insurance?

Your advice is right on, Oceanpearl. ADD/ADHD kids are phenomenally good at causing trouble at school, at home and in public. Of great value is lending an understanding ear to the parents. Another thing you could do, as a health professional, is learn as much as you can about this (or some other condition) and help steer people to effective medical treatment. Especially keep a sharp eye out for abused kids who may have ADD/ADHD, depression, dyslexia, vision problems, etc, that could lead less-educated parents to try to beat these disorders out of them.
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 119
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/3/2005 7:28:25 PM
Unicorn,

You've been flamed by a man (for lack of a better term) with kids but no job who lives by a river and likes to drink beer.

He and his buddies who can't seem to spell or write in coherent English have decided that it's OK to post absurdities on this thread. Don't reply or they'll just get ever more absurd. I tried to e-mail you to warn you but I'm too old to limbo under your screen. E-mail me if you like and I can tell you lots more about guitarman and his buddies.

Cheers!
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 120
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/4/2005 6:29:13 AM
Why is it OK for you to flame them here then Overit? She flamed him first!
I am so sick and tired of the stupid fighting in here!!! If people don't agree with you overit then you report them or flame them yourself!! Unicorn flamed Guitarman too.
I am not saying I agree with all of his statements but I don't agree with a lot of people's on here doesn't mean that I am going to sit there and flame them and be rude to them!!
He believes that adhd or add is a hoax A LOT of people do!!
 BlackbirdXIII
Joined: 11/20/2005
Msg: 121
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/4/2005 1:19:20 PM
I don't believe it's a hoax. I think the condition is very real, same as autism, BPD, all that stuff. But I don't know that all doctors are necessarily qualified to diagnose the problem, just as all mechanics aren't qualified to fix every car. I've seen doctors prescribe things with a cursory glance at a patient's records, not having noticed their patient is severely allergic to the medication they've just prescribed. I've also seen doctors go through a massive battery of tests to find the patient has some obscure allergy or deficiency in their diet that causes problems otherwise diagnosed as something completely different. The real issue, I think, is finding out what causes ADD/ADHD in the first place, and trying to fix the problem at its source. Is it pure genetics? Is it something in the environment, like pollution? Is it something like recent studies have shown in relation to the sharp increase in autism in the last 20 years, where an ingredient in vaccines (in this case mercury) could be a contributing factor? Maybe if more doctors spent time researching these issues, and trying to cure real maladies instead of making sure dirty old men can still get boners, the number of people with ADD/ADHD and other personality disorders would decrease....
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 122
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/4/2005 6:36:48 PM
OceanPearl

Thanks for the clarification. I completely mistook your meaning in your earlier post. And, as you're there first-hand, there's no doubt that your observations are just as good as an MD's. The Canadian system seems a lot more user-friendly than the system here in the States although I'm sure you have your own set of unique problems.

Same here about losing pills. Ritalin is considered a drug of abuse and pharmacists and doctors will give you the 3rd degree if you ask for an early refill. It's especially galling for me because my kids, especially my elder, would refuse to take their meds in the morning and threw the tiny, tiny pill into places where not even Capt. Kirk had gone before. The ex and I would make up for the lost pills on weekends and hide from the kids.

I don't know if the media is to blame. Sometimes, I think Americans are too nonchallant with drugs and sometimes too cautions. A lot of people smoke pot and snort coke and then mistrust large pharma companies for making too much money. Is that incongruous or what? Anyway, these medications are very, very powerful. They change brain chemistry and that's not something to be taken likely. Also connected with taking these meds is the fact that ignorant people (1) think the patient is insane/whacked and (2) think that the parents are just being lazy. So, yeah, the media is to blame a little but so is everyone who relies on the media for their opinions.

For most of these psychological maladies, it is absolutely best to start with the least invasive therapy and move up from there. Many of the afflicted don't need any type of medication but can make do with a more structured life and a balanced diet. Unfortunately, most ADD/ADHD kids do need meds and, most often, the first attempt at controlling them is either too little (still wild/no effect) or too much (glassy-eyed zombies) so parents lose hope. It takes a while to titrate the patient to the point where they are medicinally given enough self-control. This is also complicated by the fact that ADD/ADHD are often one of a mix of disorders that a patient has. My elder is ADHD/OPD and my younger is ADHD/OPD/Asberger's.

About your postscript. I use the word syndrome and you use disorder but I think we do that for the same reason. A syndrome is "a combination of signs and/or symptoms that forms a distinct clinical picture indicative of a particular disorder.” (from Oxford Concise Medical Dictionary). These maladies are not classical diseases in that there's no identified cause and there really is no physical test for them. Diagnosis is strictly clinical and this leads to the possibility of misdiagnosis.
 jessika2908
Joined: 6/17/2005
Msg: 123
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/4/2005 9:17:26 PM
What are you talking Ohsosweet!? Sorry no one bowed down to you in this whole or hole rather!!
 OverIt50
Joined: 10/25/2005
Msg: 124
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/5/2005 4:05:07 AM
Ohsosweet,
I found your post and, yes, you made very good points. If your son is catatonic after medication, then the dose is too high. Find a psychiatrist with a good rep for treateing ADD/ADHD kids and start taking him. It may take a while before you and the doc can zero in on the right meds and dosages but it's worth it.

It took YEARS wth my elder and about eight months with my younger son to get the meds about right. In retrospect, a lot contributed to the length of timeit took to get my elder's med tailored to him. First, my own inexperience and denial. Second, taking him to the wrong/inexperienced doctors. Once we found the right doctor, the process goes well but not quickly as a good psych will allow at least a few weeks to a month to let the new drug combo to take full effect.

Best of luck, Ohsosweet. Been there. It's not easy and you will build up real arm muscles tuggng that kid to the psych but it's the best for him.
 Guitarmanou812
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 125
ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?
Posted: 12/5/2005 7:17:12 PM

I have come to realize that he is doing the best he can with what he has to work with and that even if it may not seem like it to me, he is doing the best he can. So, i try to take all that into account on days where i see him as misbehaving/havin attitude. All i can say is, i would rather have him like that, where we know how and who he is, and not how or who he would be all drugged up.


bellaj_1
You are a GREAT parent, and should be very proud of yourself. Your son is so lucky to have you. I wish you the very best that life has to offer. You deserve it.
Show ALL Forums  > Single Parents  > ADHD and ADD the real thing or a cop out?