Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
Show ALL Forums  > Religion  >      Home login  
Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 53
Heaven and HellPage 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
If God would grant me a very large planet to play with-I'd collect every possible plant that God could think up! ...WOW!

But I can't wait to be young again-back to the days of our youth.
Joined: 6/28/2005
Msg: 57
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/16/2005 7:28:28 PM
To creepycarrie:

What you guys miss is that this life is a challenge. I don't think most people are starving to death.. that's a little extreme but..

dealings with money, hatred, jealousy, etc... think about it..

Ever play computer games, mario brothers? set the game to unlimited life and money option. Basically you are invincivable and go through levels and monsters as if they werent even there...
No worries.. In fact you can push one button and let the game go on its own. you don't even have to look at the screen. Half an hour later you can come back and see.. "you won".
What an exicting game..

The very thing that makes this life interesting is that we are mortal beings. We have worries, challenges and short-comings. Improving and overcoming them with a sense of love for one another is what's so interesting.
Joined: 6/28/2005
Msg: 60
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/16/2005 9:15:53 PM
Yeah.. people starving to death.. they certainly have a valid reason to goto heaven as soon as possible. It seems sooner the better for them. With the help of AIDS of course.

I think I'm just gonna come out and say there is no God. Wake up!

But that'd mess up any possibility of heavenly dreams for you, wouldn't it now?

If dying and going to heaven is such a good thing..
then why don't people look forward to dying? They can die and go to heaven as soon as possible, no?

They should die happly, no? I mean you guys make it seem like.. people in Africa are lucky to be dying early and get the better end of the deal in heaven, much faster than you folks?

But it doesn't work that way. Does it? People aren't particularly happy about dying. So that kinda questions whether or not there is a heaven..

Joined: 9/9/2005
Msg: 62
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/16/2005 9:54:10 PM
most of us do die happily. as long as you've enjoyed or learned from most things in life. too bad so many religions try to make people feel guilty about things that should not have anything to do with guilt.
Joined: 6/28/2005
Msg: 64
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/18/2005 4:36:46 PM
>> Wow....can you prove that ? I don't believe in God, but how do you know ? The many doctrines taught by the worlds religions may be absurd, but the existence of God, in any form, cannot be proven or disproven. <<

Well, people are obsessed with God. Because they always want something.. be it afterlife or good fortunate. He must really exist so that "God" can favor the "person" in question. How do you think religion was born in the first place?

It doesn't really stop with individuals, in many countries national anthems, there is a mention of God. Supposedly or according to that particular country, it must be God's favorite country. God save this, God save that..

You have to be a little illusioned to think God favors only "your country", not others. Or God favors Christianity only or Islam or you name it..

Why why why? Because if God favored everyone then it wouldn't be special. People wanna feel special, wanna feel protected. So there you go, pick out your religion and die happly ever after. Ridicilious.

It's a physiological or mental drug that makes people relaxed or eases them of their worries. It'd do that for me too if I had the backing of the creator of this huge universe. Although, this is very obvious to me. I don't normally go around tell about it. Because religion works in that way for some people. So why mess up their dreams. I'm not a bad guy :-(

Actually I realized something about it recently. Imagine your life wasn't going too good or your dreams of what you wanted to do career wise, let's say in 2005. But 5 years from now in 2010, something was gonna happen.. either for worse(get nothing) or better(get big project). Would you rather convience yourself it's the better that happens in 2010 or worse?

Of course better right? But would you have still picked that if you knew it was the worse case that'd happen? In another words if you had the chance to lie to yourself, would you?

That's all it is, this religion business. Convincing yourself about the better. If you don't have enough self-confidence, there is always God. Sad, but such is life. And religion sometimes is a solution. I'm not denying that.

But to let people in that state of mind decide whether creator of universe was present in their daily lifes or just present somewhere out in some galaxy? I think their limited scientific opinion will be a little biased? Keep in mind they are heavyly emotionally invested in this idea.
Scientific background, I mean mass populations don't know a thing about quantum mechanics.
So that strikes science down. What do you got left with? Pure emotion. Back to square one. That's all it is really.

Scientific method has got nothing to do with emotion or by being emotional would your findings(or formulas) favored by natural laws of this universe.

Sorry this post got very long.. I better quit :-)
Joined: 9/17/2003
Msg: 66
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/18/2005 6:05:06 PM
I don't fear death at all. I'm just scared of how painful it will be :) but am I worried about the afterlife? Not a chance!
Joined: 9/14/2010
Msg: 68
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 9/18/2010 11:50:33 AM

Many other people are not afraid of death..especially in countries like India where they believe in reincarnation. There is no doubt to them that they will go they do not fear death like we do raised as christians.

good point - One of the primary motivations for the creation of, and belief in religions.

because man is the only animal with a concept of the future, not just living day by day like most species.

man sees the future, and know by all logic that one day he will die, have no existence, no consciousness

this thought is intolerable & depressing to him, so all over the world, different 'religions' have been invented that tell you that you will either be 'reincarnated' as another life form, or pass into a transcendental place of pure consciousness, OR go to some kind of "heaven" if you act the 'right' way (according to certain rules) e.g. the Christian & Jewish concepts of heaven , or the Muslims' 72 virgins awaiting in Paradise, etc.

also a good social control tool for the early rulers -set out rules, use the heavy stick & big carrot to enforce obedience . ..if you obey you live FOREVER in heaven/paradise
if you disobey you will endure NEVER ENDING torture & agony in hell, forever!
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 69
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 9/20/2010 12:31:27 AM

if you disobey you will endure NEVER ENDING torture & agony in hell, forever!

You left off "because God LOVES us"

Anyway, isn't an eternal Hell more a Christian thing?

I like the quote "Eternal Suffering Awaits anyone who Questions God's Infinite Love", not sure who said it.
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 70
view profile
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 9/23/2010 10:22:34 PM

Here is a good one, where does hell burn?

I can't really tell you for certain, but there are rererences in Scripture where two are mentioned; Bottomless pit, which I think is in the center of the earth and another instance is mentioned where God will ultimately throw the earth into the Sun once it is over and done with.
I am trying to find out where exactly I saw this and as soon as I do I will follow up with book, chapters and verses...

Yes I am one of them Christians...

Joined: 9/20/2010
Msg: 71
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 9/24/2010 10:23:49 AM
Jesus reminded us because our ancestors forgot...
We're in the Kingdom of heaven.
It's everywhere.

If you knew, Heaven is not s spiritual realm for us to go in the afterlife.
The second life and or death.. takes place right here on Earth.
There's only one place. The Universe. and we're at the heart. The final frontier.

Well, when God casts out sin. He cleanses your mind and your soul, so that your healthy and make good decisions.
When I first saw a naked woman it cursed me for the rest of my life.
I want one NOW!.
Or I played a game the other day.
I Dreamt of it. The demon was in me

Why wouldn't you wanna go into heaven?
Maybe you don't remember being 5.
Something liek that.

play play play and eat.
true worship is in your soul.
(Your soul is your body and mind in unification)[thus I meant action and thoughts. Keep em pure ;)]
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 72
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 9/24/2010 12:07:00 PM

When I first saw a naked woman it cursed me for the rest of my life.

But if God made man in His image, and woman is a part of man, how could looking at part of God's image curse someone?

And shouldn't covering up God's image ( with clothes) be the sin, not leaving God's image exposed to view?
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 73
view profile
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 9/25/2010 12:10:54 AM

But if God made man in His image, and woman is a part of man, how could looking at part of God's image curse someone?

And shouldn't covering up God's image ( with clothes) be the sin, not leaving God's image exposed to view?


Let us pretend that you are a believer for just a moment; and by that I mean a believer in the God of Abraham, I think you refer to him as the Christian God, I think...

Anyway, just to humor me for a moment, let's pretend that you and I believe in the same God okay, now if you would please read the following from Scripture:

Genesis 1:26
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

Who do you think that God is talking to?

It isn't a riddle or no thing like that, I want to get an opinion from someone who doesn't believe in Scripture...

Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 74
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 9/25/2010 12:24:50 AM

Genesis 1:26
26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;

Who do you think that God is talking to?

Ohh good question. And in Exodus 20:3 when God says "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. " it can be interpreted as Him (strictly speaking) not saying there are NO other Gods, He's just saying He's the primary one. Of course, both issues could be mistranslations from the original source material ( like the commandment "Thou shalt not kkill", that's mistranslated ).

As to your question, perhaps He's speaking to the heavenly host.

If I were going to believe in the God of the Bible, I would probably interpret the phrase "in Our image" to mean "gifted with intelligence. This would allow us to include any intelligent extraterrestrial beings as children of God, and would also allow us to accept the theory of evolution alongside belief in God.... unless we were going to take the description of the creation (as described in the Bible) as a completely accurate & literal description.

But now, even the Catholic church doesn't take the creation in Genesis as a historically accurate depiction, and accepts evolution & the big bang alongside a God-created cosmos.
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 76
view profile
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 10/5/2010 2:02:08 AM

So,what other opinions are there of what is this image of God that we are could be.......

I honestly believe that Genesis 1:26 means that we, like Him are simply tripartite beings.
We know that God is triune and is clearly stated by Paul’s closing on 2 Corinthians 13:14 Corinthian letter: “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. In Mathew 28:19 Jesus says: Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost”

Created in the image of God, man is likewise tripartite. He has a spiritual nature that is separate and distinct from the body in which it dwells.
Most people tend to believe that man consists of body and spirit. I will not tell you that the following is Christian law or anything like that; it is simply what I concluded from reading various different verses from Scripture. The two following passages from the Bible clearly establish the fact that man is composed of spirit, soul, and body:

1 Thessalonians 5:23 I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow (body), and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Let me paint you a picture of man as I understand:

1- Body/flesh consists of the five human senses: Sight, Smell, Hearing, Taste and Touch.
2- Soul’s ‘fillings” (Lack of a better word)’ are ‘Imagination,’ ‘Conscience,’ ‘Memory,’
‘Reason’ and the ‘Affections.
3- The “Spirit” receives impressions of outward and material things through the soul.
Such faculties of the ‘Spirit’ are ‘Faith,’ ‘Hope,’ ‘Reverence,’ ‘God’s related material.


The tangible part of man. The executor of the wants and plans of the "other two"…


In his initial state the ‘Spirit’ of man was illuminated from Heaven, but Adam disobeyed, sin closed the window of the Spirit, it was separation from God for the ‘not reconciled” heart (once again, lack of a better word), until the Holy Spirit “opens it back on” (Lack of a better word) reconciling both through a new life in Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit then develops that the spirit of man, becomes like the sphere of consciousness of God, and it is where the “regeneration” takes place.
In Isaiah, Paul wrote: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him. But God hath revealed them unto us by His Spirit; for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
In 1 Corinthians 2:9-11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? Even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
I think that Man in his “not reconciled” state comes to know the things of man by the operator of “the spirit of man” which is in him. If one has a will to know certain scientific facts, by one’s human spirit we are enabled to investigate, think, and weigh evidence. If one sets oneself to the task, one may become a scientist of world-renown and of great accomplishments. However, one’s human spirit is “limited to the things of man.” If one wants to know about the things of God, one’s dormant spirit is not able to know them.

1 Corinthians 2:14 The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The human spirit requires “the spark of reconciliation” before there is an understanding of the things of God. Man’s spiritual nature must be renewed before there is a true conception of Godliness. When the will is surrendered, the Holy Spirit takes up His abode in the spirit of man. And when that transaction takes place we will know it. In Romans 8:16 The Spirit Himself (meaning the Holy Spirit) beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God.

I really don’t think that the things of God can be understood by the world outside of Jesus Christ. The spirit of the “not reconciled” man has no more capacity to appreciate the things of God than a hog has to appreciate a genuine pearl necklace.

Scripture tells us in Job 32:8 that it is the spirit of man that is given the understanding. If that wasn’t the case, I really don’t think that God would have not referred to it as a personality. In Numbers 16:22 He is called “The God of the spirits of all flesh”, and in Hebrews 12:9 “the Father of spirits”. Paul testified in Romans 1:9 “For God is my witness, Whom I serve with my spirit in the Gospel” In John 4:24 Jesus said: “God is a spirit; and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth”.

Last but not least, the Soul

Man not only has a soul but he is a living soul. Scripture says: Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul”

Now as the spirit of man is the sphere of activity where the Holy Spirit operates in regeneration, I too believe that the soul is just so, the sphere of activity but where Satan operates making his appeal to the affections and emotions of man.
Satan knows full well that he dominates the psychical or the soul man. Therefore he does not care if a man goes to a church where the Spirit of God is not in evidence.

The soul is the seat of the passions, the feelings, and the desires of man; and Satan is satisfied if he can master these and the following passages are what led me to believe this:
Genesis 34:8, 1 Samuel 18:1. But as the soul loves, so it also hates. 2 Samuel 5:8.

It is in the soul where fleshly lusts, desires, and appetites arise:
See Peter 2:11, Proverbs 25:25, & Isaiah 29:8.

The soul of man, that is, his affections and desires, are never directed Godward until after the spirit has become reconciled. Man can never love God nor the things of God until he is reconciled. Man’s desires and affections are turned toward God when he realizes his sinful condition and God’s grace in salvation. When the Spirit of God illuminates the spirit of a man with divine light and life, that man begins to yield his affections and faculties to God. Now in order for that to take place the two spirits must meet when Jesus Christ is acknowledged as personal Savior.

Mary said; “My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior” (Luke 1:46, 47).

All the verses above from Scripture are how I arrived at my conclusion that we are tripartite; as He is. “in His image and after His likeness…

Of course the above is simply my opinion and I could be wrong...

Joined: 10/30/2009
Msg: 77
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 10/10/2010 3:17:58 AM
Nice post. I see mind as I know it(body,mind,spirit) is referenced as soul as you know it(body,soul,spirit)
Joined: 1/15/2008
Msg: 78
view profile
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 10/14/2010 6:20:04 PM

Nice post. I see mind as I know it(body,mind,spirit) is referenced as soul as you know it(body,soul,spirit)

Pretty much yes, Body, Mind/Soul and Spirit. Like I said, this is not Christian law at all, it is just more so my opinion, or what I think Scripture means when it says that we were made "in His image, after His likeness"....

I could be wrong though...
Joined: 7/19/2011
Msg: 79
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 10/8/2011 11:41:34 PM
Someone might have already mentioned this... but it should be noted that people (either physically or their souls) are not going to Heaven. Nowhere in the Bible does it state that people can or will go to Heaven. In fact... it specifically states multiple times that people can NOT go to Heaven. Here is a verse, John 3:13...

"No one has ascended into heaven except He who descended from Heaven, the Son of Man."

There is a huge misconception by followers of Christ (and even people who dont follow Christ but believe in "Heaven"). Moses, Abraham, Elijah, King David, and Noah didnt even go to Heaven, and most of those people were prophets. So, to believe that a person who isnt even a prophet could ascend to Heaven... does not follow with the teachings of Christ or the words of the Bible.

Heaven is strictly reserved for God, Jesus, and angels. Though Catholics do believe that Mary was assumed into Heaven after her death... but the verse that this is based off of doesnt specifically state that Mary was taken into Heaven. The Bible does explain what happens to people when they die... they dont go anywhere. Their body is laid to rest on Earth, and their spirit goes into a dormant "sleep-like" state. In this state they wait for the Rapture (Revelations). During the Rapture, Jesus will return from Heaven with his army, raise the dead from their graves, and then they will be judged. It is then that they will either be cast into Hell, or they will be allowed to stay on Earth... which will be converted into a Paradise by the Lord and Jesus will rule the Earth and its people. The whole concept of going to Heaven is a misunderstanding many many years in the making. The statement "Thy Kingdom Come" is another indicator... Jesus will bring his Kingdom from Heaven to the Earth where people will live for eternity.

If you are not basing your ideas of "Heaven" off of the Bible or any religion closely related to Christianity... then nothing I just said matters. All of this information is only related to The Holy Bible.
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 81
view profile
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 10/9/2011 10:32:15 AM
Doesn't the Bible say (I believe Jesus was credited with it) That the Kingdom of God is within?

I think 'heaven' and 'hell' are states we create ourselves, in our minds (souls?) We have to power to create (created in His image - and He is the CREATOR, really, think about it) whatever kind of existence we truly desire. We can live in 'heaven' or 'hell' right here on earth - no need to go anywhere for that. It's all around us. Think about the 'hell' of Auschwitz, or the 'heaven' of holding your child for the first time. Very different states of being.

This is the focal point of the message of religion (most religions - not just christianity)- what do we really desire? More stuff? acclaim? power over others? or peace, and happiness and creativity? If one desires 'good' then one chooses the actions and attitudes that support that desire - and those choices affect those around us. The choices we make, and the responsibility for those choices are what creates our experience of life.

Humans are progressive, we are problem solvers, explorers - it's a innate hunger and need that we grow constantly. Stagnation causes depression and takes away the will to live. Is it being proposed that 'god' will change the very nature of humanity to be automatons with nothing to strive for? Sure it sounds nice - like a vacation where you don't have to worry about work or the pressing problems of daily life - but at some point even the best vacation begins to get boring - humans NEED to be productive, to solve problems, to create and explore. It's what makes us human, it's what causes things like music and literature and art and science... So what I am hearing that this is NOT desirable? That our 'real' state is one of no striving, no creation, no struggle at all? Humanity's greatest achievements have come out of struggle and obstacles and quite frequently, intense pain. This is when the true nobility of what we can be comes out in us.

We would no longer be human in my opinion without the challenges. We would be less than.

I look at the universe - supposedly the expression of the creator. I would think we could learn something about the nature of 'god' from his creation. It's a very beautiful place.. wondrous, awe-inspiring. It's also destructive, violent and ever-changing. Nothing stands still in the universe - change is the only constant. If 'god' didn't want his creation to be like this, or wanted us to be different why leave an entire universe for us to observe that is based on this duality? Light/dark, cold/hot, creation and destruction. Will the very nature of the universe change? It would have to if we are the ones who's free will has made it like this . Isn't that the thought? - that mankind's 'sin' has created the horrible world we live in - the one we want to escape by attaining 'heaven', a place where all is static and pleasant and non-violent - where NOTHING EVER CHANGES BECAUSE IT'S ALREADY PERFECT?)

It doesn't make sense to me.
Joined: 7/19/2011
Msg: 82
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 10/9/2011 3:36:29 PM

That is a beautiful notion and all, but how do you explain people who live in third world countries in poverty and are never able to pull themselves out of that poverty? How are they "creating" their world... when they were placed into a world that they have no control over whatsoever? The human ego causes us to believe that we actually have control over our own destiny and that our mind possesses some sort of power in which we can change the world around us and make our lives better or for worse, but that is simply not true. While we might have some sort of control over our immediate surroundings and emotions, we do not have control over "existence". If that was the case, then one person would be able to alter the existence of another simply because we exist in the same world with so many other people that would supposedly possess the same power we possess. If you can alter your own "karma" (and I use this term loosely), then you would actually be able to alter other people's "karma" as well... because if there exists a duality between you and the universe, then other people's duality would interact with your own duality. If you can alter your existence, then it would positively or negatively affect other people's existence at the same time, despite their own control. And that contradicts this supposed duality because it shows that other people have control over your existence, duality, karma, universe, or whatever word you want to use to describe it.

Example - if a person is born into poverty, and they pray and hope and do everything they can to overcome that poverty, but they are not able to... and then they die in poverty, then what support exists to show that they have control over their existence? The truth is that the universe controls us, and the hierarchy of power that has been established on Earth controls our destiny, while we can only control how we respond to that destiny.

Of course this is philosophy, and no one is right or wrong. The only difference is how much logic is applied to your philosophy or how much faith is accepted.

But in regards to the Bible...

The few statements that are 100% metaphorical, in which Jesus says "the Kingdom is within you"... can not replace the multiple non-metaphorical statements that are made by Jesus and other authors that say "you cannot go to Heaven". You will not find a verse in the Bible in which Jesus or anyone else says "you go to Heaven when you die". You will only find metaphorical translations in which people "think" that he is referring to Heaven. But you will find multiple verses that say "you stay on Earth and sleep with the dead until Jesus returns with his army and rules the Earth". This is straight forward and doesnt need any metaphorical re-translation. There are lots of metaphorical statements in the Bible, but there is also lots of non-metaphorical references to real cities that have been discovered, real people that there is evidence that they existed, and other concepts that have been shown to be real and non-metaphorical. If one wants to look at the Bible as being some metaphorical piece of work in which things mean something completely different, then you will not be able to explain why there exists verifiable proof of the straight-forward meaning of many things in the Bible.

The truth is... if you are a Christian (which means you are a follower of Christ, and the whole religion is based off of the words in the Bible), then you are wrong to think that you are going to Heaven. Because... you are not.
Joined: 7/19/2011
Msg: 83
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 10/10/2011 12:21:44 AM

I noticed that you have posted some information in other posts regarding the Sumerians. I have been studying Sumerian culture for about 12 years now... so if you ever want to discuss anything in regards to it, or how it relates to the Bible or other cultures, then feel free to contact me. I am always interested. Thanks!

Joined: 7/12/2006
Msg: 84
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 10/24/2011 5:32:27 PM
Discussing this is like discussing how Santa Claus climbs down chimneys.
By that I mean talking about an afterlife mostly based on a cultural views
wrapped around bad translations.

So I take the Buddhist view which is encapsulated in what Jesus said:
"The Kingdom of Heaven is all around us".
So I guess so is the kingdom of hell if you wish to stretch it.

We choose every moment which to inhabit.
If you are not sure in which you dwell...
do this mental exercise.

You just got hit by the bus and are dying.
Really imagine it.
Close your eyes and picture falling into the void.
What do you feel/sense?

Panic? Fear?
Mad at the bad break of being killed suddenly?
Wishing to get revenge on the driver?
Or perhaps at others who have done you wrong?
Anger maybe?

Or maybe relief.
or joy at what lies on the other side.

What would you feel?
THAT is the choice you've made.
What we take with us,
makes us on the other side.

If you feel you could not leap joyously into the unknown,
you have more work to do.
Heaven and hell are you choice.
Not God's.
Joined: 7/5/2011
Msg: 85
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 10/26/2011 4:35:56 PM

The Gates of Heaven and Hell

Nobushige, a great samurai, sought out Hakuin and asked: "Is there really a heaven and a hell?"

"Who are you?" asked Hakuin.

"I am a samurai," Nobushige replied.

"You?" Hakuin snorted. "What lord would employ you? You look like a begger!"

A furious Nobushige began to draw his sword, but then Hakuin said, "Here open the gates of hell."

Nobushige took the point, sheathed his sword, and bowed.

"Here open the gates of heaven," said Hakuin.
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 88
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 10/29/2011 11:36:43 PM
This better place is the here and now. What happens to ous after we die no one knows.

So enjoy the time you have with the ones you love!
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 90
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 11/2/2011 2:35:00 AM
It's for reasons such as that that I became an Atheist. There are sooo many things relating to God that just make no sense and if the “truth” is looked for, where on earth would you look for it, the Bible? If you're thinking yes then I would ask “how do you know what's written in the Bible is actually factual? Needless to say, comes a point where one needs to realize that man needed to fill in some areas and just for that, I no longer believe in God.

For example, where does it say we need to live 100% righteous?
 Eagle Fish
Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 91
Heaven and Hell
Posted: 9/20/2012 10:24:48 AM

To live 100% righteous seems impossible. Everyone sins. If God is sin free and he casts sin out, such as the case of Satan, why would anyone want to go to heaven ?

We all sin, it seems to be a global enjoyment by all (believers and non-believers). I think the after life (if sin free) would be less enjoyable then life as it is now. What is this better place supposed to entail ?

I was going to start a thread but noticed that this has been started. Hopefully people can include this in their discussion. If not the moderators can start a new thread.

How would you define and describe heaven and hell? How would you describe these terms to a child? Would your culture/religion be different than what you personally believe?

I have been in awe of how people and one culture would describe these two terms. I enjoy learning about people.

To help the forum discussion I have include two definitions. These could answer the OP’s questions.

Heaven, the Heavens or Seven Heavens, is a common religious, cosmological, mythological, or metaphysical term for the physical or transcendent place from which heavenly beings (such as a Sky deity, God, angels, King or Queen of Heaven, Heavenly Father or Heavenly Mother or Son of Heaven, heavenly saints or venerated ancestors) originate, are enthroned or inhabit. It is commonly believed that heavenly beings can descend to earth or take on earthly flesh and that earthly beings can ascend to Heaven in the afterlife or in exceptional cases enter Heaven alive. Heaven is often described as a "higher place", the holiest place, a Paradise, in contrast to Hell or the Underworld or the "low places", and universally or conditionally accessible by earthly beings according to various standards of divinity, goodness, piety, faith, or other virtues or right beliefs or simply the Will of God. Some believe in the possibility of a Heaven on Earth in a World to Come or of a World Tree which connects the heavens, the world, and the underworld. Another belief is in an Axis mundi which connects heaven and earth. In Indian Religions, Heaven is considered as Svarga loka, and soul is again subjected to rebirth in different living forms according to the fruits of its good deeds. This cycle can be broken after a soul achieves Moksha or Nirvana.

In many mythological and religious traditions, hell is a place of suffering and punishment in an afterlife, often after resurrection. Religions with a linear divine history often depict hells as endless. Religions with a cyclic history often depict a hell as an intermediary period between incarnations. Typically these traditions locate hell under the Earth's external surface and often include entrances to Hell from the land of the living. Other afterlife destinations include Heaven, Purgatory, Paradise, and Limbo.

Other traditions, which do not conceive of the afterlife as a place of punishment or reward, merely describe hell as an abode of the dead, a neutral place located under the surface of Earth (for example, see sheol and Hades). Modern understandings of hells often depict them abstractly, as a state of loss rather than as fiery torture literally underground, but this view of the concept of a hell can, in fact, be traced back into the ancient and medieval periods as well.[citation needed] Hell is sometimes portrayed as populated with demons who torment those dwelling there. Many are ruled by a death god such as Nergal, Hades, Hel, Enma or the Devil.

Heaven vs Hell

While there are abundant and varied sources for conceptions of Heaven, the typical believer's view appears to depend largely on his religious tradition and particular sect. Generally religions agree on the concept of Heaven as pertaining to some type of peaceful life after death related to the immortality of the soul. Heaven is generally construed as a place of happiness, sometimes eternal happiness. Hell is often portrayed populated with demons, who torment the damned. Many are ruled by a death god, such as Nergal, the Hindu Yama, or some other dreadful supernatural figure (e.g. Satan).

Hope this helps in the discussion. Thank you in advance.
Show ALL Forums  > Religion  >