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 merchantcarnival
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 26
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' TheoryPage 2 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
another factor on the "watch what a woman does, not what she says" theory...one of my exs was a self-proclaimed chill, laid back girl that didn't like drama...but liked to argue over the stupidest things, and was the kind of person that would make a big stink if something in her order was wrong at a restaurant. also her bf before me stole 3,000 dollars from her atm acccount for an oxycotin addiction and last time i checked was still on good terms with him even though they weren't romantically involved anymore.
 Diancarock1976
Joined: 11/23/2010
Msg: 27
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 1:56:58 AM
This is BS, women want gentleman and nice guys, what we don't like is LAMES, there is a difference between a nice man and a LAME. A Lame is a man who has no real personality, can't talk or express himself in front of a woman, likes to do lame things like watch Star Trek, or model airplanes, brings his laptop on a date, talks about conspiracy theories and complains just in general about life, isn't outgoing whatsoever, and has one friend name Joe. A nice man, opens doors, brings flowers, tells you that you're beautiful, is truly interested in what happened in your day and is considerate. A nice guy has hobbies like, playing basketball (fill in favorite sport), don't like drama at all, and will pretty much let you win an argument even though you both know you are wrong. So NICE GUYS ALWAYS FINISH FIRST IN MY BOOK!!!
 Dare to
Joined: 2/11/2009
Msg: 28
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 5:25:18 PM
^^^^^^ I guess you think you're a nice guy too?? Newsflash!! Real nice guys don't have such disprespectful opinions of women that they subscribe to stupid chauvinistic beliefs like:

Women don't know what they want so asking them will accomplish nothing.


Nice guys don't finish last, its doormats, guys with no personality and jerks who mistakenly think they are nice guys who finish last .. And guys who are filled with bitterness because they can't get the hot chick they fantasise about.


My friend has male model looks, has no problem getting noticed by women or getting a first date
Well that kinda throws half the theories out of the water.. Seems like women don't just go for the hot looking guy hey and there's a bit more to it than pure physical attraction... Surely you have to ask yourself why a good looking guy can't hold a womans attention for more than one date..
 merchantcarnival
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 29
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 5:51:49 PM
"Seems like women don't just go for the hot looking guy hey and there's a bit more to it than pure physical attraction."

Yes you have to be a douchebag on top of it and provide drama. Women are attracted to hot and cold...telling them you love them one minute...beating up a guy the next minute just for looking in their vicinity and also cheating on them, then telling them "I'm sorry baby."

Like I've said, Mark Whelberg in the first half of the movie Fear (before he goes completely bonkers and goes too far...starts threatening to kill her family etc. .)
 Dare to
Joined: 2/11/2009
Msg: 30
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 10:17:33 PM

Don't ask women for advice on this. You will get as many different opinions as there are stars in the sky
Uhmmm.. Of course you will... Or do you also think ALL women have the same preferences and tastes in men.. You guys gotta get over your bitterness and entitlement issues because they certainly aren't attractive and most women can smell a guy with issues a mile away....
 merchantcarnival
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 31
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 10:37:39 PM
I date nerds/goofy/artsy/bookish/non conventional girls...girls that find the bad boy/abusive phenomenon funny themselves. In fact, with one of my exs we watched Fear and just laughed the whole time at the type of girls who would like Mark Whelberg's character.
 merchantcarnival
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 32
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 11:46:49 PM
I personally find most young women's (or immature old women's) personality a complete turnoff...the kind of women who don't even realize why they keep falling for the same guys, or complain about their life, but don't realize that they like the drama.

The kind of women I get along with are the kind that know the drill...are like a man only with feminine features...like Roz from Frasier or Elaine in Seinfeld.
 raggadie
Joined: 6/18/2011
Msg: 33
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/23/2011 4:18:31 PM

I realize that this doesn't make a lot of logical sense, and it's hard to ACCEPT... but GET OVER IT. Until you accept this FACT and begin to act on it, you'll NEVER have the success with women that you want."


Logical??? But get over it? Hard to accept the fact?

This is the most unlogical (sp ) reasoning I have ever heard , it is also a very damaging ideal.

David D, Paul Janka and all the likes are morons that base an idea that works with "the right way" of doing things.

Meaning just because a woman doesn't choose her attraction, it doesn't make it a good idea for the woman and the man. Where is the compassion on a human level with sexual tension? Same as a man will go for looks forgetting about the personality. This is NOT logical or well reasoned.

Honestly if a man has to "make" a woman feel attraction in this manner, then the guy needs to find another woman. She does not base her attraction on logic other than gut feelings and emotion and this should be scary to any rational mind. Justification and cognitive dissonance as well as social acceptance is why this fad has come into the big picture, but what do the statistics show? Granted if you wanna screw this has no meaning. I see enough broken homes and divorces ( if you believe in marriage/ god created it etc ) to say this ideal of reason is very biased. Just because it works doesn't make it the "right way" or healthy for any relationship and or getting to know people on a "real level".

To sum it up, a woman or man that uses emotion and attraction to make choices in life is what you will get when times get tough. Emotional choices do not mean logical or well reasoned choices. Just because unhealthy food taste good, doesn't make it good for you. Your mind works the same way.

Granted I am an atheist and do not believe the bible is the word of god , some passages have some truth to them.

Philippians 3
19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things.
 The_Song
Joined: 5/21/2008
Msg: 34
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/24/2011 1:48:45 AM
Love isn't logical to start with. If u stop and think about it who in there right mind would want to marry someone with all the divorce lawyers out there unless you where marrying for money. But personally i'd rather keep love that way, don't want it rationalized or put in a logical manner, because if you do it ends up been I want to be with such and such because they give me these benefits ( input list here). Some people have it that way but personally to me that would be horrifying and a world where i would not want to live in.
 Mazebound
Joined: 6/3/2011
Msg: 35
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/24/2011 12:30:32 PM
I have a problem with this post because of what you call LAMES and their life style. Have you ever been to a comic convention before? There are many guys out there that have personalities but also have hobbies in this area. They watch Star Trek for the fact that underneath the whole geek/sci-finess that you see, the show deals with real world issues when it was made at the time. I think you have had media influence on what you think geeks/nerds/dorks seem to be like. We are in fact interesting people if you get to know us. We have different hobbies than the ones you listed. Before looking down on us, I would suggest spending some time in a comic book store or a convention of similar type to see for yourself.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 36
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/24/2011 12:45:45 PM
I just love it when people generalize about the other gender. "WOMEN (plural) don't know what they want", "MEN (plural) are all asshats", "WOMEN all want drama", "MEN all want Barbie dolls","nobody wants a NICE guy/gal", waaaaaah waaaaah waaaaaah.

You WILL find WHAT YOU EXPECT in the other gender.
- If you believe that all women want drama, you will then notice the drama queens - and perhaps be subconsciously attracted to them, because they are feeding your belief.
- On the other hand, I quite often notice that the women I know who bash men for being douchebags somehow end up with one douchebag after another. Coincidence? I think not.

How nice it would be if all the douchebags would get together with the drama queens and take themselves out of the dating pool, to leave the non-drama-loving women and the non-douchebag men to swim in the friendly waters together.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 37
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/25/2011 12:59:41 PM
Now personally I don't give this theory/oppinion anymore credit than I would my college janitor

Why not? It's stating common sense. Notice that it's not saying be a jerk. It points out women will gravitate toward jerks vs any classic "Mr Nice Guy". The point is what "nice" means. In this context it means being a caterer, being a guy who auditions for a woman's interest as some sort of contestant, and being the guy who listens to "maw and paw" and other people who are expressing what they want more out of the boyfriend they currently have (relationships & the pre-dating process are two different worlds).

Think of it this way... if the first word that comes to mind is that someone is "nice" -- there's a lack of attraction. If their first adjective is attractive, exciting, confident, charming, etc -- then that speaks for itself. "Nice" won't truly get you in the door. "Nice Guy" in this context means doormat -- a guy whose eagerness to get her can be read... a guy who is more of a yes-man, etc.

In essence, there's no "skill" needed in being 'nice' in the general sense. It basically means being cool, not being a d!ck... ya know, how anyone should be on a romantic or any other level in social relations. Being "Nice" as the first adjective to describe you means they lack attraction -- so stop TRYING to be nice when you're not a jerk in the first place, is all it's saying -- it's not a game to play despite what maw & paw and the girl who couldn't get the dreamy guy told ya (everyone's a jerk or a b!tch in someone's eyes when they can't get them and were convinced that they could).
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 38
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/25/2011 7:34:33 PM

So you're saying "EVERYONE" can't distinguish from what they expect from the opposite gender and what they actually find? Have some faith in the human race to notice these things!


I didn't say that at all, so I don't know what you're talking about - your post makes no sense.
 Naadirah
Joined: 6/3/2011
Msg: 39
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 4:06:02 AM
The last thing I am attracted to is the super HOT guy. He may be appealing to view, but he is going to constantly be attracting advances from undesirable people. I tend to find the very typical hot guy to have had too many women, STD, drama, no commitment.

Yes, I'm looking for some physical attraction, but the mental stimulation is key for me. If we can connect mentally, then that person becomes all the more physically attractive.

When I see anyone describing themselves as "the nice guy", they are usually whining and complaining about not getting any attention from women out of their league. Give me a chance, I'm a nice guy...is usually something that is desperate. I see it used a lot by men who are extremely out of shape or stopped taking care of themselves. There are so many that look 20 years older than they are claiming to be.

My thought, is he will never be able to keep up with my lifestyle.

I also find that the self proclaim nice guys create more drama and angst. Similar to the self proclaim funny guys are crude and not humorous.

Actions really are better than statements.

My ultimate characteristic I'm looking for is respect. Jerks need not apply.
 Naadirah
Joined: 6/3/2011
Msg: 40
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 5:30:29 AM
@ fourvision: I'm sure that your friend does not have dating problems because he his nice, boring or predictable. If he is attractive, well mannered, respectful, interesting, intellegence that really only leaves one flaw that is a deal breaker in most relationships. He is not a good lover, may even be as simple as he is a horrible kisser. It's something that could be improved on, but maybe he thinks he's great, and women do not say anything because he is a nice guy and might not want to hurt his feelings.

Just throwing that out there...

@ socoj & fourvision: women are not intellegent enough to select suitable partners? Do that cover all women, even the ones that may be interested in you?
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 41
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 6:24:04 AM
Every man I date I think is nice. If I didnt think they were nice they wouldnt have gotten the date.

Me thinks being nice is a good START. Everyone should be nice. Everyone living should be breathing too. Another good start.

It takes more then being nice to keep someone interested in you. Having a backbone, standing up for yourself, drawing boundaries, demanding respect etc all weigh heavily. But ya gotta be nice! (to me)
 Ryryguy109
Joined: 7/22/2011
Msg: 42
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 1:29:36 PM
I also agree. Women tend to believe that they want the "nice" or "good" guy, like out of some romantic comedy. But it's action that speaks louder than words and they continue to make the wrong choices. Of course I am generalizing here I'm sure not ALL girls are like that. I have many female friends and I see it all the time, and I can't help but worry for them. It's their life so they can do what they want whatever. Doesn't mean I can't still care about them, but I just wish it didn't have to be that way.

I find I am most successful when I don't care as much about the girl, not to the point of being mean, but enough for them to know that you have other things going on and they aren't as much as a concern for you. It's very very disheartening, and I absolutely hate it. It's why I'll never get stuck up on just one girl, you have to have options so you can move on.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 43
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 2:38:45 PM

The last thing I am attracted to is the super HOT guy.

I see what you mean, although him being HOT in your eyes = attraction... but not attracted to any notion of going down dating-alley with.

I'm sure that your friend does not have dating problems because he his nice, boring or predictable. If he is attractive, well mannered, respectful, interesting, intellegence ...

But a guy who's attractive and interesting isn't going to be seen as boring & predictable though. Being nice, boring & predictable doesn't do anything. That means no edge to him, lacking interest about him, etc.

Women tend to believe that they want the "nice" or "good" guy, like out of some romantic comedy. But it's action that speaks louder than words and they continue to make the wrong choices.

Well, it's not a wrong choice to step away from a classic Mr Nice Guy. Although it's true that too many gals go toward the more jerky ones (because they are at least interesting, alpha-quality, etc) as a wrong decision, it's not THE reason why virtually all attractive, social women who are good catches skip over Mr Nice Guy. It's not so black and white, either-or.

I find I am most successful when I don't care as much about the girl, not to the point of being mean, but enough for them to know that you have other things going on and they aren't as much as a concern for you.

Pretty much it -- you're not out there to be a yes-man to them as a result... not a jerk, but you don't "need" them. They're a contestant to your panel of judges just as much. It's pretty simple, but easier said than done when most of us have been conditioned that "most men are jerks, you have to prove yourself to a woman and win her over," which is a bad game we're taught to play. We think "why shouldn't I go out and prove myself to win women over? I'd like that if I were on the other side of the coin..," but we're not on the other side of the coin, and the world's kind of different over there.

It's when we don't care much, thus, not in pursuit to prove ourselves, but to be open & engaging, that opportunities flourish... hence the Murphy's Law that when you have a girlfriend opportunities tend to arise (because you're not looking for them; you have a different vibe).
 Naadirah
Joined: 6/3/2011
Msg: 44
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 3:59:38 PM
Is everyone confused? Why does it have to be over complicated? It's the games that leave everyone frustrated, jaded and alone. Why not just be ourselves? If you like someone, you show/tell them. No pretenses. There are very few people that are nice 24/7.

It's about balance.

When a guy starts playing the interested, then disappears game he ends up being blocked.
 greglalicious
Joined: 7/19/2011
Msg: 45
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/27/2011 10:25:48 AM
I was never one to care about the advice or theories of others. I believe that you should just be yourself. You want someone to fall in love with YOU after all and not who you are acting like. It will not work out unless both of you accept and love each other for who you are.
 CumberlandIsTheBestLand
Joined: 7/2/2011
Msg: 46
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/27/2011 10:38:23 AM
http://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating_top_ten_100/122_dating_list_a.html

I was spot-on. It is indeed a quote from David DeAngelo. Everyone who took an interest in the OP should look him up.
 CumberlandIsTheBestLand
Joined: 7/2/2011
Msg: 47
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/27/2011 12:09:57 PM
More DeAngelo goodness:

Looking for her approval
In our desire to please women (which we mistakenly think will make them like us), we guys are always doing things to get a woman's "approval" or "permission."

This is another horrible idea.

Women are never attracted to the type of men who kiss up to them... ever.

Don't get me wrong here. You don't have to treat women badly for them to like you.

But if you think that treating a woman well means "always getting her approval and permission for things," think again.

You will never succeed by looking for approval. Women actually get annoyed at men who seek their approval.

Doubt me? Just ask any attractive woman if wussy guys who chase her around and want her approval annoy her.





Trying to buy her affection
How many times have you taken a woman out to a nice dinner, bought her gifts and flowers, and had her reject you for someone who didn't treat her even half as well as you did?

If you're like me, then you've had it happen a lot.

Well guess what? It's only natural when this happens.

That's right, I said natural.

When you do these things, you're sending a clear message: "I don't think you'll like me for who I am, so I'm going to try to buy your attention and affection."

Your good intentions usually come across to women as overcompensation for insecurity, and weak attempts at manipulation. That's right, I said that women see this as manipulation.
 merchantcarnival
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 48
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/27/2011 1:27:37 PM
naadlrah...

i'm in a difficult position. contrary to my cynical beliefs about the majority of young american women...i'm a one woman guy...want romance, want to have a best friend and lover rolled into one.

but when you date a woman, and she implies (even if just via a joke) that she thinks you're capable of physically laying a hand on her..when you weigh a soak and wet 155 (at the time), have never been in a fight in your life, and if anything have shown her too much affection (rookie mistake at the time)...then women (not her necessarily) date guys that are twice the size of them and actually COULD do harm on them and very well may want to...you just realize how screwed up a lot of young women are when it comes to romance and dating.

i don't appeal to a lot of women in general. i look nerdy, despite working out and dressing well, have no "game", shoot from the hip (one time was on a date and saw a fat bald old guy with a hot young blonde and said "he has money")...say all the wrong things at the wrong times. so if a woman likes me, that means she finds me physically attractive enough to date me, and also doesn't judge me...or has a similar personality herself...which is great.

i'm not the type that would date an attractive woman i had nothing in common with just for the arm candy and sex even if i could.

i'm myself at all times and a woman has to respect that to date me.
 mohoss
Joined: 7/12/2011
Msg: 49
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/27/2011 9:19:18 PM
I've read that before. The biggest flaw in his theory - and many of its ilk - is that they're talking about very attractive girls. The gorgeous, shallow, immature, snobby, stuck up ones. They are attracted to douche bags because they're douche bags themselves. They attract what they are. That's why they don't date nice guys.

You will find this happening a lot. These girls who date all these bad boys are no better than they are. In fact, they USE the nice guys for their own selfish gain. Not very nice, are they?

When he says "you'll never have success with the women you want" - it depends on what you want. If you want the hot chicks - then yeah, being a DB works. But, it won't last.

I read a similar article that used gorgeous celebrities dating bad boys as an example of what women want. Ironically enough, NONE of the couples are still together. That's because the women (and men) were all trash. Not very successful afterall, eh.
 merchantcarnival
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 50
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/27/2011 9:27:23 PM

I've read that before. The biggest flaw in his theory - and many of its ilk - is that they're talking about very attractive girls. The gorgeous, shallow, immature, snobby, stuck up ones. They are attracted to douche bags because they're douche bags themselves. They attract what they are. That's why they don't date nice guys.

You will find this happening a lot. These girls who date all these bad boys are no better than they are. In fact, they USE the nice guys for their own selfish gain. Not very nice, are they?

When he says "you'll never have success with the women you want" - it depends on what you want. If you want the hot chicks - then yeah, being a DB works. But, it won't last.

I read a similar article that used gorgeous celebrities dating bad boys as an example of what women want. Ironically enough, NONE of the couples are still together. That's because the women (and men) were all trash. Not very successful afterall, eh.


couldn't have said it better myself. especially about the part where women use these men for their own selfish gain (attention, an ego boost, validation, etc.) sure those self proclaimed "nice guys" aren't any better (talking to the girl hoping she'll like him under the guise of friendship)...but these women also know how to flirt with the guy enough where he thinks he might stand a chance and keep coming back.

i guess i'm lucky...i was just ignored/ridiculed from the start in my earlier years. while it took it's toll on me, i was never the "shoulder to cry on" or had female "friends" that really weren't friends. i didn't have any rejections (unless you count random women laughing at me or never being checked out even by less attractive women and such.)

i also agree about the shallow douchebags attracting shallow douchebags part.

and for the guys on here that want the "really hot" stuck up type...if you stopped and thought about it, you'd realize you don't really want her, you just want the idea of getting someone like her.
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