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 sweetness-one
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 26
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' TheoryPage 2 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)
Hogwash. What women DON'T find attractive, is self-proclaimed "nice guys" or "good guys". It's the same as any other whine about "why men/women don't want me"...if one truly IS a 'nice guy' or an 'independent woman' or whatever other scenarios, then they wouldn't feel the need to blare it from the rooftops OR start a thread. It would just be evident in who they are.

The rest of the O-Post is similar hogwash. What is it basically saying, what, newsflash, that women also want a man they are attracted to physically, no matter how "nice" he proclaims himself to be?

Both men and women want a partner they are both physically and mentally/emotionally connected to. Hardly newsworthy, nor worth a "new spin on an old whiny tale" IMO. To whine that "no women want a nice guy" is the same as whining "no women want ME". Said men should likely ask themselves why that is, since they are the common denominator.

What MIGHT be a newsflash to all future starters of "nice guy" threads is...being a "nice guy" and also being attractive doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. But then, the ones who qualify in that regard, likely wouldn't start "nice guy" threads because they'd already know that.
 merchantcarnival
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 27
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/20/2011 8:00:45 PM
socoj nailed it.

and no, he isn't boring to the poster who said that. he's a musician, photographer, has many hobbies, isn't shy, etc. .

i don't even listen to women when they talk about what they want. there's that saying, watch a woman's actions, not her words.

women want douchebaggery and drama, plain and simple.

there are women out there that don't think with their hormones and go for regular joes (i'm not talking about whiny "nice guys"...just regular guys that don't steal, cheat, beat, etc.) but most women just see the "attractive" guy and put up with douche behavior so they can show off their bf to their girlfriends...or they like the drama.

women can respond all they want, we want a good guy that we're attracted to. it's not true.

i'm not claiming to be a nice guy btw. if you saw the fantasies in my head at times, i'm anything but nice. i just have respect for people and don't beat them, lie to them, steal money from them, yada yada yada.
 merchantcarnival
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 28
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/20/2011 8:13:24 PM
another factor on the "watch what a woman does, not what she says" theory...one of my exs was a self-proclaimed chill, laid back girl that didn't like drama...but liked to argue over the stupidest things, and was the kind of person that would make a big stink if something in her order was wrong at a restaurant. also her bf before me stole 3,000 dollars from her atm acccount for an oxycotin addiction and last time i checked was still on good terms with him even though they weren't romantically involved anymore.
 Diancarock1976
Joined: 11/23/2010
Msg: 29
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 1:56:58 AM
This is BS, women want gentleman and nice guys, what we don't like is LAMES, there is a difference between a nice man and a LAME. A Lame is a man who has no real personality, can't talk or express himself in front of a woman, likes to do lame things like watch Star Trek, or model airplanes, brings his laptop on a date, talks about conspiracy theories and complains just in general about life, isn't outgoing whatsoever, and has one friend name Joe. A nice man, opens doors, brings flowers, tells you that you're beautiful, is truly interested in what happened in your day and is considerate. A nice guy has hobbies like, playing basketball (fill in favorite sport), don't like drama at all, and will pretty much let you win an argument even though you both know you are wrong. So NICE GUYS ALWAYS FINISH FIRST IN MY BOOK!!!
 beenambedie
Joined: 7/16/2011
Msg: 30
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 4:19:17 PM
So how about it ladies? Give your oppinion on if you think this is true or not, both for you personally, and for women in general.

First mistake: Don't ask women for advice on this. You will get as many different opinions as there are stars in the sky. Rule 1. Women don't know what they want so asking them will accomplish nothing.
 Dare to
Joined: 2/11/2009
Msg: 31
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 5:25:18 PM
^^^^^^ I guess you think you're a nice guy too?? Newsflash!! Real nice guys don't have such disprespectful opinions of women that they subscribe to stupid chauvinistic beliefs like:

Women don't know what they want so asking them will accomplish nothing.


Nice guys don't finish last, its doormats, guys with no personality and jerks who mistakenly think they are nice guys who finish last .. And guys who are filled with bitterness because they can't get the hot chick they fantasise about.


My friend has male model looks, has no problem getting noticed by women or getting a first date
Well that kinda throws half the theories out of the water.. Seems like women don't just go for the hot looking guy hey and there's a bit more to it than pure physical attraction... Surely you have to ask yourself why a good looking guy can't hold a womans attention for more than one date..
 Whole 9 Yards
Joined: 6/6/2006
Msg: 32
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 5:33:58 PM

In other words, they find out he's boring.

Think about it.


Until you're knocked up and being f-ed over regularly.

Funny how boring becomes secure, predictable becomes mature......you get the idea.


First mistake: Don't ask women for advice on this. You will get as many different opinions as there are stars in the sky. Rule 1. Women don't know what they want so asking them will accomplish nothing.


Thus far, I agree 100%.
 merchantcarnival
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 33
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 5:51:49 PM
"Seems like women don't just go for the hot looking guy hey and there's a bit more to it than pure physical attraction."

Yes you have to be a douchebag on top of it and provide drama. Women are attracted to hot and cold...telling them you love them one minute...beating up a guy the next minute just for looking in their vicinity and also cheating on them, then telling them "I'm sorry baby."

Like I've said, Mark Whelberg in the first half of the movie Fear (before he goes completely bonkers and goes too far...starts threatening to kill her family etc. .)
 Dare to
Joined: 2/11/2009
Msg: 34
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 10:17:33 PM

Don't ask women for advice on this. You will get as many different opinions as there are stars in the sky
Uhmmm.. Of course you will... Or do you also think ALL women have the same preferences and tastes in men.. You guys gotta get over your bitterness and entitlement issues because they certainly aren't attractive and most women can smell a guy with issues a mile away....
 merchantcarnival
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 35
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 10:37:39 PM
I date nerds/goofy/artsy/bookish/non conventional girls...girls that find the bad boy/abusive phenomenon funny themselves. In fact, with one of my exs we watched Fear and just laughed the whole time at the type of girls who would like Mark Whelberg's character.
 merchantcarnival
Joined: 7/9/2011
Msg: 36
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/21/2011 11:46:49 PM
I personally find most young women's (or immature old women's) personality a complete turnoff...the kind of women who don't even realize why they keep falling for the same guys, or complain about their life, but don't realize that they like the drama.

The kind of women I get along with are the kind that know the drill...are like a man only with feminine features...like Roz from Frasier or Elaine in Seinfeld.
 raggadie
Joined: 6/18/2011
Msg: 37
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/23/2011 4:18:31 PM

I realize that this doesn't make a lot of logical sense, and it's hard to ACCEPT... but GET OVER IT. Until you accept this FACT and begin to act on it, you'll NEVER have the success with women that you want."


Logical??? But get over it? Hard to accept the fact?

This is the most unlogical (sp ) reasoning I have ever heard , it is also a very damaging ideal.

David D, Paul Janka and all the likes are morons that base an idea that works with "the right way" of doing things.

Meaning just because a woman doesn't choose her attraction, it doesn't make it a good idea for the woman and the man. Where is the compassion on a human level with sexual tension? Same as a man will go for looks forgetting about the personality. This is NOT logical or well reasoned.

Honestly if a man has to "make" a woman feel attraction in this manner, then the guy needs to find another woman. She does not base her attraction on logic other than gut feelings and emotion and this should be scary to any rational mind. Justification and cognitive dissonance as well as social acceptance is why this fad has come into the big picture, but what do the statistics show? Granted if you wanna screw this has no meaning. I see enough broken homes and divorces ( if you believe in marriage/ god created it etc ) to say this ideal of reason is very biased. Just because it works doesn't make it the "right way" or healthy for any relationship and or getting to know people on a "real level".

To sum it up, a woman or man that uses emotion and attraction to make choices in life is what you will get when times get tough. Emotional choices do not mean logical or well reasoned choices. Just because unhealthy food taste good, doesn't make it good for you. Your mind works the same way.

Granted I am an atheist and do not believe the bible is the word of god , some passages have some truth to them.

Philippians 3
19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things.
 The_Song
Joined: 5/21/2008
Msg: 38
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/24/2011 1:48:45 AM
Love isn't logical to start with. If u stop and think about it who in there right mind would want to marry someone with all the divorce lawyers out there unless you where marrying for money. But personally i'd rather keep love that way, don't want it rationalized or put in a logical manner, because if you do it ends up been I want to be with such and such because they give me these benefits ( input list here). Some people have it that way but personally to me that would be horrifying and a world where i would not want to live in.
 Mazebound
Joined: 6/3/2011
Msg: 39
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/24/2011 12:30:32 PM
I have a problem with this post because of what you call LAMES and their life style. Have you ever been to a comic convention before? There are many guys out there that have personalities but also have hobbies in this area. They watch Star Trek for the fact that underneath the whole geek/sci-finess that you see, the show deals with real world issues when it was made at the time. I think you have had media influence on what you think geeks/nerds/dorks seem to be like. We are in fact interesting people if you get to know us. We have different hobbies than the ones you listed. Before looking down on us, I would suggest spending some time in a comic book store or a convention of similar type to see for yourself.
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 40
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/24/2011 12:45:45 PM
I just love it when people generalize about the other gender. "WOMEN (plural) don't know what they want", "MEN (plural) are all asshats", "WOMEN all want drama", "MEN all want Barbie dolls","nobody wants a NICE guy/gal", waaaaaah waaaaah waaaaaah.

You WILL find WHAT YOU EXPECT in the other gender.
- If you believe that all women want drama, you will then notice the drama queens - and perhaps be subconsciously attracted to them, because they are feeding your belief.
- On the other hand, I quite often notice that the women I know who bash men for being douchebags somehow end up with one douchebag after another. Coincidence? I think not.

How nice it would be if all the douchebags would get together with the drama queens and take themselves out of the dating pool, to leave the non-drama-loving women and the non-douchebag men to swim in the friendly waters together.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 41
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/25/2011 12:59:41 PM
Now personally I don't give this theory/oppinion anymore credit than I would my college janitor

Why not? It's stating common sense. Notice that it's not saying be a jerk. It points out women will gravitate toward jerks vs any classic "Mr Nice Guy". The point is what "nice" means. In this context it means being a caterer, being a guy who auditions for a woman's interest as some sort of contestant, and being the guy who listens to "maw and paw" and other people who are expressing what they want more out of the boyfriend they currently have (relationships & the pre-dating process are two different worlds).

Think of it this way... if the first word that comes to mind is that someone is "nice" -- there's a lack of attraction. If their first adjective is attractive, exciting, confident, charming, etc -- then that speaks for itself. "Nice" won't truly get you in the door. "Nice Guy" in this context means doormat -- a guy whose eagerness to get her can be read... a guy who is more of a yes-man, etc.

In essence, there's no "skill" needed in being 'nice' in the general sense. It basically means being cool, not being a d!ck... ya know, how anyone should be on a romantic or any other level in social relations. Being "Nice" as the first adjective to describe you means they lack attraction -- so stop TRYING to be nice when you're not a jerk in the first place, is all it's saying -- it's not a game to play despite what maw & paw and the girl who couldn't get the dreamy guy told ya (everyone's a jerk or a b!tch in someone's eyes when they can't get them and were convinced that they could).
 PittsburghVixen
Joined: 6/27/2009
Msg: 42
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/25/2011 7:34:33 PM

So you're saying "EVERYONE" can't distinguish from what they expect from the opposite gender and what they actually find? Have some faith in the human race to notice these things!


I didn't say that at all, so I don't know what you're talking about - your post makes no sense.
 Naadirah
Joined: 6/3/2011
Msg: 43
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 4:06:02 AM
The last thing I am attracted to is the super HOT guy. He may be appealing to view, but he is going to constantly be attracting advances from undesirable people. I tend to find the very typical hot guy to have had too many women, STD, drama, no commitment.

Yes, I'm looking for some physical attraction, but the mental stimulation is key for me. If we can connect mentally, then that person becomes all the more physically attractive.

When I see anyone describing themselves as "the nice guy", they are usually whining and complaining about not getting any attention from women out of their league. Give me a chance, I'm a nice guy...is usually something that is desperate. I see it used a lot by men who are extremely out of shape or stopped taking care of themselves. There are so many that look 20 years older than they are claiming to be.

My thought, is he will never be able to keep up with my lifestyle.

I also find that the self proclaim nice guys create more drama and angst. Similar to the self proclaim funny guys are crude and not humorous.

Actions really are better than statements.

My ultimate characteristic I'm looking for is respect. Jerks need not apply.
 Naadirah
Joined: 6/3/2011
Msg: 44
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 5:30:29 AM
@ fourvision: I'm sure that your friend does not have dating problems because he his nice, boring or predictable. If he is attractive, well mannered, respectful, interesting, intellegence that really only leaves one flaw that is a deal breaker in most relationships. He is not a good lover, may even be as simple as he is a horrible kisser. It's something that could be improved on, but maybe he thinks he's great, and women do not say anything because he is a nice guy and might not want to hurt his feelings.

Just throwing that out there...

@ socoj & fourvision: women are not intellegent enough to select suitable partners? Do that cover all women, even the ones that may be interested in you?
 femaleconnection
Joined: 8/12/2010
Msg: 45
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 6:24:04 AM
Every man I date I think is nice. If I didnt think they were nice they wouldnt have gotten the date.

Me thinks being nice is a good START. Everyone should be nice. Everyone living should be breathing too. Another good start.

It takes more then being nice to keep someone interested in you. Having a backbone, standing up for yourself, drawing boundaries, demanding respect etc all weigh heavily. But ya gotta be nice! (to me)
 Ryryguy109
Joined: 7/22/2011
Msg: 46
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Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 1:29:36 PM
I also agree. Women tend to believe that they want the "nice" or "good" guy, like out of some romantic comedy. But it's action that speaks louder than words and they continue to make the wrong choices. Of course I am generalizing here I'm sure not ALL girls are like that. I have many female friends and I see it all the time, and I can't help but worry for them. It's their life so they can do what they want whatever. Doesn't mean I can't still care about them, but I just wish it didn't have to be that way.

I find I am most successful when I don't care as much about the girl, not to the point of being mean, but enough for them to know that you have other things going on and they aren't as much as a concern for you. It's very very disheartening, and I absolutely hate it. It's why I'll never get stuck up on just one girl, you have to have options so you can move on.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 47
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 2:38:45 PM

The last thing I am attracted to is the super HOT guy.

I see what you mean, although him being HOT in your eyes = attraction... but not attracted to any notion of going down dating-alley with.

I'm sure that your friend does not have dating problems because he his nice, boring or predictable. If he is attractive, well mannered, respectful, interesting, intellegence ...

But a guy who's attractive and interesting isn't going to be seen as boring & predictable though. Being nice, boring & predictable doesn't do anything. That means no edge to him, lacking interest about him, etc.

Women tend to believe that they want the "nice" or "good" guy, like out of some romantic comedy. But it's action that speaks louder than words and they continue to make the wrong choices.

Well, it's not a wrong choice to step away from a classic Mr Nice Guy. Although it's true that too many gals go toward the more jerky ones (because they are at least interesting, alpha-quality, etc) as a wrong decision, it's not THE reason why virtually all attractive, social women who are good catches skip over Mr Nice Guy. It's not so black and white, either-or.

I find I am most successful when I don't care as much about the girl, not to the point of being mean, but enough for them to know that you have other things going on and they aren't as much as a concern for you.

Pretty much it -- you're not out there to be a yes-man to them as a result... not a jerk, but you don't "need" them. They're a contestant to your panel of judges just as much. It's pretty simple, but easier said than done when most of us have been conditioned that "most men are jerks, you have to prove yourself to a woman and win her over," which is a bad game we're taught to play. We think "why shouldn't I go out and prove myself to win women over? I'd like that if I were on the other side of the coin..," but we're not on the other side of the coin, and the world's kind of different over there.

It's when we don't care much, thus, not in pursuit to prove ourselves, but to be open & engaging, that opportunities flourish... hence the Murphy's Law that when you have a girlfriend opportunities tend to arise (because you're not looking for them; you have a different vibe).
 Naadirah
Joined: 6/3/2011
Msg: 48
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/26/2011 3:59:38 PM
Is everyone confused? Why does it have to be over complicated? It's the games that leave everyone frustrated, jaded and alone. Why not just be ourselves? If you like someone, you show/tell them. No pretenses. There are very few people that are nice 24/7.

It's about balance.

When a guy starts playing the interested, then disappears game he ends up being blocked.
 greglalicious
Joined: 7/19/2011
Msg: 49
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/27/2011 10:25:48 AM
I was never one to care about the advice or theories of others. I believe that you should just be yourself. You want someone to fall in love with YOU after all and not who you are acting like. It will not work out unless both of you accept and love each other for who you are.
 CumberlandIsTheBestLand
Joined: 7/2/2011
Msg: 50
Interesting 'Good Guys Finish Last' Theory
Posted: 7/27/2011 10:38:23 AM
http://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating_top_ten_100/122_dating_list_a.html

I was spot-on. It is indeed a quote from David DeAngelo. Everyone who took an interest in the OP should look him up.
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