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Show ALL Forums  > Religion  > 7th day sabbath and Sunday worship      Home login  
Joined: 12/6/2005
Msg: 35
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7th day sabbath and Sunday worshipPage 6 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-18 that He did not come to destroy the law. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” We saw in chapter one that the earth will abide forever. Here again in the clearest words possible Jesus tells us that He did not come to abolish the law but that the law will be in effect for ever.


thank you bro, dei Gratia. Yes ,not one jot or tittle will be changed. And oh how time has changed thru the sands of time!

What was nailed to the cross and the Messiah Jesus's/Yehoshuah's crucifixion? Was it the Law of God or was it sin that was nailed? Think Moses and the serpent staff in the wilderness? Let's take a walk thru the OT shall we. Now history keeps repeating itself.

numbers 21...

The Bronze Serpent
4 Then they journeyed from Mount Hor by the Way of the Red Sea, to go around the land of Edom; and the soul of the people became very discouraged on the way. 5 And the people spoke against God and against Moses: “Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? For there is no food and no water, and our soul loathes this worthless bread.” 6 So the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and many of the people of Israel died. 7 Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, “We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD and against you; pray to the LORD that He take away the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people. ***8 Then the LORD said to Moses, “Make a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and it shall be that everyone who is bitten, when he looks at it, shall live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze serpent, and put it on a pole; and so it was, if a serpent had bitten anyone, when he looked at the bronze serpent, he lived.
Now what did this signify ? Same with the cricufixion, when one behold's Jesus onthe corss, Jesus became sin remember. John 3:14-15, 1 John 2:2 Why did Jesus yell our to His Father in Heaven, why have you forsaken me? Remember Jesus never knew separation from His Father in heaven! For thru the Sprit of God, he was in total union with he Father. As in the gospel of John, many times it speaks the Father and I are one!
And he who has been bitten by the sting of sin ,who looks upon the cross shall be saved.
John 3...
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” 9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?” 10 Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? 11 Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. 12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? 13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven.

***14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”

Now we do know that coming to the cross seers the conscience to repentence. But it is thru this viewing of Jesus becoming sin as He took on the sins of the world here, that they can enter into Life. The birth from above,spirit. For without repentence there is no spiritual birth. Hm...unless a seed dies it can not bring forth life!

So really what was truly nailed to the cross. Not the Torah, Jesus gave the revelation of the Torah of God, first the physical, then the spiritual. Israel only knew the outside form, the rituals ,of sin and offering sacrifices. What ancient Israel was taught as a foreshadow and type. Tho God did speak even in the OT times. It is not sacrifices I want, but love and mercy. So Jesus brought the revelation of God.

And another question ,who has final say, man or God? I say God. Now if God says something is perpetual, then no one, I mean no one, has the right to change it! For who is the author of the 'good book'... men, or people inspired by the Spirit of God, driven to write the words of God from the ethers of Heaven? I say God is the author of the 'good book' and not up for debate here! Mankind, when inconvenienced, likes to do things for his own personal gain driven by fallen logic of mind, ego of Self seems to rules supreme! The Sabbath was not some manmade creation,but given as a gift and revelation from God Himself. For the day of rest but also symbolising the Age of Rest aka the 7th day symbolising the Messiah age of Shalom, when Messiah Jesus rules the earth for a 1000 years. In Leviticus, it speaks of 7 year sabbath, of restoration of the land and cancellations of debts and freeing of slaves. Then there is the Jubilee years of the 50th year.So in some cases, Israel got a double portion blessing on the 49 and 50th year,of restoration and cancelation of debts and freeing of slaves. All the Torah of God, I mean the whole of scriptures is good wisdom. One can not just pick and choose at personal whim here,and there is continuity thru the whole book. But one needs the Spirit of God to enlighten the mind with to understand. Why did Jesus speak parables, so only those who had ears to hear, and eyes who see can understand! Carnal man can not understand the things of Spirit ,for they are spirit. And only the Spirit of God can understand and reveal spiritual things. Also think Isaiah, has the lion laid down with the lamb yet? Me thinks not, the dark overlord of this world still reigns, chaos,death and atrophy still ensues. Just look around you and this present day world! Read the news, it'll shock ya! And darn it, Messiah Jesus has not planted his big toe on the mount of olives yet, tho I keep watchful over that one!

Anyways,read romans for yourself, it speaks on these very things. Not some theology book either. Ask the Spirit of God to be your guide and open your mind to His wisdom and revelation. For it speaks about the Law and the Spirit of the Law. And well the sabbath is part of the Law of God.

Ok, so what of the Law of God, an example... one is clothed in the crimson mantle of Jesus. So that God on longer sees sin , but now we are seen thru the eyes of Jesus. This is grace. Now when we do sin due to weakness and ignorance,for the heart is deceitfully wicked to no end! Still babes in the spiritual wilderness, while striving to grow in Jesus, when we do sin, we have a judaic High Priest who interceeds on our behalf. Of course we must confess our sins to Jesus. Cos sin causes a separation between the person and God,and well it is the believer who seeks reconcilation and the continual presence of God before them always. So a needing to keep the slate clean between oneself and God. Keep the flow of connection and communication going, after all God is looking for a relationship with His people. In a spiritual sense He is married to His people!

Hosea 2: “Therefore, behold, I will allure her, will bring her into the WILDERNESS, and speak comfort to her. 15 I will give her her vineyards from there, and the Valley of Achor as a door of hope; she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, as in the day when she came up from the land of Egypt.
***16 And it shall be, in that day, says the LORD, that you will call Me ‘My Husband,’ and no longer call Me ‘My Master,’

Jeremiah 3:10-14 "And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah has not turned to Me with her whole heart, but in pretense," says the LORD. 11 Then the LORD said to me, "Backsliding Israel has shown herself more righteous than treacherous Judah. 12 "Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say: ‘Return, backsliding Israel,’ says the LORD; ‘I will not cause My anger to fall on you. For I am merciful,’ says the LORD; ‘I will not remain angry forever….***14 Return, O backsliding children," says the LORD; "for I am MARRIED to you. I will take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I will bring you to Zion”.
Jeremiah 31:1-30 "At the same time, says the Lord, I will be the God of all the families of Israel, and they shall be My people. 2 Thus says the Lord: The people who survived the sword found grace in the wilderness - Israel, when I went to give him rest. 3 The Lord has appeared of old to me, saying: Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore with loving kindness I have drawn you. 4 Again I will build you, and you shall be rebuilt, O virgin of Israel!

Jeremiah 31:31-40 "Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah (Hint: Are the Jews Christian yet?) - ***32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was 'a husband to them', says the Lord. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Isaiah 62

3 You shall also be a crown of glory
In the hand of the LORD,
And a royal diadem
In the hand of your God.
***4 You shall no longer be termed Forsaken,
Nor shall your land any more be termed Desolate;
But you shall be called Hephzibah/My delight is in her and your land Beulah/married
For the LORD delights in you,
And your land shall be married.

So consider the comandments of God,what I call the Torah of God, the wedding contract.
If you love someone you want too please them and laws are the boundary of a good marriage, it keeps it safe from preditors and homewreckers! Jesus is the judaic wedding cup! And Jesus came in the flesh to reveal the face of His Father, God! He also nailed sin on the cross, he gave the 'new life' thru the resurrection,being the first fruit of the resurrection. The first of many, bros and sister, in and thru Himself. So who has the authority? God. Man reflects the glory of God, woman was made from man, therefore reflects the authority of man. God is the hubby, He alone is the authority. His Law, and any part of it, He has the last word on it!

Joined: 12/6/2005
Msg: 36
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7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/15/2005 2:07:33 PM
Romans 14
The Law of Liberty

1 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written:

“ As I live, says the LORD,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”[d]

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.

The Law of Love

14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 For he who serves Christ in these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.

19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

Well these verses sum it all up, it this not an issue for debate, but something one needs to take before God alone! I was once where many of yous were, but was by the wind of the Spirit of God to change my ways. I wall called out of churches. I studying and meditating on the scriptures, in rhema I learned to become Torah observant, I was instructed to Keep the Feasts of the Lord, and the biblical sabbath. Now this was personal instruction,it did not come by any man whatsoever. So people take this to God ok, let Him lead you in the path you are to walk. Man does not destine your path, only God does. Nor does man have the final say,only God does.

But inquiring on posts, you seek the wisdom of man,not the wisdom of Self, but is not God's wisdom most important?

To where one rises or falls, it is by God alone. So please, my best advice is, take it to God alone! Let Him reveal to you personally what is His will in all things, even this, the sabbath issue.

Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 37
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/15/2005 4:08:47 PM
Shalom Dear Sister,

Oh how challenging, and convicting this post is to me. It has brought me to the rock of truth and I feel I must do what is right, at work they have been pressuring me to work on the Sabbath, I have been brought to the realization that this is definitly a salvation issue, I absolutly cannot work on the Sabbath no matter what the cost. It will be interesting to see what lies ahead. I will need all the Shalom (peace) that only Yahweh and His dear saints can bring me to face this dare I say battle.

Joined: 11/22/2005
Msg: 38
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/16/2005 5:49:24 PM
That's an interesting question, does anyone know if there is anything written about working in the New Earth.

Steve & Kara
 miss music
Joined: 1/18/2005
Msg: 39
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7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 12/17/2005 12:49:47 AM
I googled "Sunday blue laws" as Funn1 suggested. I found:

Interesting. Doesn't have much to do with whether or not Sunday can count as the 7th day of the week, the day of rest that God speaks of in the bible. It talks more about such laws being supported by Christian churches as a way to help their faithful attend mass on a day that their church deemed holy.
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 41
7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 7/13/2008 1:42:18 PM
The Catholic church borrowed a lot from the Romans. The idea of choosing one certain day to devote exclusively to worship was not one of them, that I know of.
But, the idea of having "feast days" and such...definitely. Rome had almost a million people a day to feed...most of them poor. 2-3 "feast days" a week kept them from starving to death...think of it as early welfare. The church used it too. Then began using "feast days" to celebrate certain personages. Saints and such. Most of these days are now done away with...but not all. Some plces still hold masses on various saints days...they had a candlelight procession here last month for the namesake saint of the town. (Almost every town is named after a saint in Quebec...sometmes two or three towns even!)
Joined: 5/12/2009
Msg: 42
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7th day sabbath and Sunday worship
Posted: 5/12/2013 6:32:56 PM
The 7th day Sabbath is important, well said funn 1.
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