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 AUTHOR
 wonkavision
Joined: 9/9/2003
Msg: 181
Does god exist?Page 13 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
"By the way "Science is at best an educated guess." Can you tell me who said that"

Sounds familiar, but I don't. I do concur with the sentiment though. The operative word here is "educated." There is a big difference between guessing the moon is made of green cheese and developing a logically consistent model based on empirical observation.

"But I'm a firm believer in knowing who you are talking with before you make bold statements."

And I'm a firm believer in predicating rebuttals on the content of another's argument. It is plainly clear that your knowledge of scientific methodology is wanting. If that were not the case, you would not misuse scientific terms and principles and quote the theories of frauds.

"By the way where did you get your degree in science?"

Irrelevant. If you are saying this because I exposed the spurious credentials of Baugh then you entirely missed my point. When did I ever claim to have a degree in Physics from MIT for example? I routinely express the fact in the forum that I am an autodidact. Where I learned what I know, from the library or a university, is completely irrelevant. If you doubt my knowledge, then that should be predicated on nothing but the content of my posts. That is all I've done with you; I could care less if you have a degree or not. I only care that you have exposed your lack of knowledge in this area by your words. The relevant point about Baugh is not his lacking credentials, but the fact that he is a liar and a fraud.

"and there are more scientist than you could ever emagine that use the Bible as a compass for their work."

As an inspiration, there's nothing wrong with that. I don't care if a scientists casts bones for inspiration and some may. That is entirely different than predicating a theory on a metaphysical assumption while ignoring empirical evidence. That is what real scientists DON'T do. As I've stated before, there are many Christian scientists, there are many Hindu, Muslim, Pagan, Atheist, Agnostic, etc., etc., scientists. So what? The point is they all understand the important demarcation between their personal philosophical beliefs and the METHODOLOGY of science. Something you clearly don't.

"I along with quite a few decided to open our eyes to new thing and new idea's,"

You have done quite the opposite. You have started from an assumed premise and ignored any evidence to the contrary. That is not an open mind. That is a dogmatic mind. I can't remember the name of the guy who said it, so sorry for not citing him, but the quote bears repitition-



One should keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.
 young_55
Joined: 1/15/2006
Msg: 222
Does god exist?
Posted: 2/7/2006 8:26:06 AM
never met the guy/gal
 Spursman1
Joined: 10/8/2006
Msg: 261
view profile
History
Does god exist?
Posted: 10/13/2006 10:02:43 AM
I think so................
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 263
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History
Does god exist?
Posted: 10/14/2006 5:16:40 AM
The existence of a supernatual spirit being cannot be proven from our particular level of understanding.
One day perhaps when humans have evolved to a higher level, it may be possible.
 FrogO_Oeyes
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 265
view profile
History
Does god exist?
Posted: 1/1/2008 2:41:55 PM
"Ah, but barbers DO exist! What happens is, people do not come to me."
"Exactly !"- affirmed the customer. "That's the point! God, too, DOES exist! What happens, is, people don't go to Him and do not look for Him.

False analogy.
"barber" has a testable definition. "God" does not.
A barber may be observed to exist without going to him. Gods cannot.
I can show you a barber. I cannot show you a god.

A barber has objective evidence to show he exists. All evidence of gods is subjective.
The question is unanswerable. Both answers are purely personal assumptions, however you arrive at them. I say "no" because every concept of deities has been contradicted by real world evidence. With no positive evidence, and every example proven wrong, there's no reason to thing any future example will prove correct.


I AM HE AS YOU ARE ME, AND WE ARE ALL TOGETHER

See how they run like pigs from a gun see how they fly...
 FrogO_Oeyes
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 269
view profile
History
Does god exist?
Posted: 1/1/2008 4:57:47 PM

No offence but I believe you are mistaken... The concept of a singularity splitting itself into all aspects of itself has most definatly not been contradicted by real world evidence and time and time again, the concept of being at one with all things has been envisioned by many different people from many walks of life.

If that whatever caused the Big Bang had thoughts and or feelings, it could have been a deity

Could have been, but unless you define them as one and the same, you're still dealing with a fairly arbitrary and unsupported concept. I should have been more specific and referred to gods which are reputed to have some sort of current, real-world interaction. Those which are reputed to interact are contradicted. The remainder are unsupported. Defining a god which is exactly the same as a scientific concept WORKS, but it's redundant with the science and won't be a concept which many of the religious will agree with. Maximum parsimony eliminates redundant explanations, like god-of-the-big-bang. Most concepts of deities exist as explanations for real world events. While I don't actually have a problem with your concept, and at one time would have agreed with it, it just strikes me as an attempt to cling to a broader concept which is increasingly proven wrong and shoehorned into narrower and narrower niches. This is the essence of my disbelief - the concepts have been disproven over and over until they reach a point where they are redundant with science and offer only spiritual comfort. I don't begrudge the latter, but the former is pointless.


Show me pain. Show me love. show me hate.Show me jealously. These things you can not see, hear or touch. But they exist.You can emotionally feel them just as I have emotionally felt God.

More false analogy. Pain is a sense, like pressure, vision, smell, hearing. It is a means by which the body measures interactions with the world. Love, hate, and jealousy are emotions, which are purely internal mental concepts. Are you considering God to be just an emotion? Most of those who make this comparison believe that God does things, and has some kind of external existence. Can an emotion part the Red Sea? Are you considering God to be a sense? What does this sense actually do?
 snowangel691986
Joined: 11/30/2007
Msg: 272
Does god exist?
Posted: 1/2/2008 2:11:17 PM
i'm not sure anymore
 Wandering_But_Not_Lost
Joined: 12/4/2009
Msg: 274
Does god exist?
Posted: 2/21/2010 12:18:45 PM
I'm not so arrogant to say, without a doubt, something so divine certainly does not exist. However, that is how I feel. I was born and raised as a Christian and it wasn't until I started to question all the things I'd ever been taught that I actually started to see things a little differently.

To say that the universe is too complex to be anything less than design seems a little ignorant (no offense). If you consider, lets just say, a billion billion universes and 1 in every billion has 1 planet that can sustain life that's still a billion planets that have the exact conditions to sustain life. It's not design. It's a result of millions of years of natural selection and evolution. It's not chance and it only seems remarkable because now we're conscious of it all.

It seems like almost all the arguments that favour the existence of God either come down to, "God is above science. You have to have faith" or if science can't disprove God he must exist. You have to understand how foolish that sounds. That because we can't (yet) explain something that it must be divine. It's like saying, "Oh, you can't explain that? Don't worry, God did it." As if it is better to remain ignorant than to truly discover the origin of life, or anything else for that matter.

After all if God did exist who created God?
 JMars
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 275
Does god exist?
Posted: 2/21/2010 2:19:38 PM
Well, of course God is "Above" Science.

Science deals with the physical universe. God is not a physical being, but a spiritual being ... or a being of pure consciousness if you prefer. The evidence for God is to be found in the human psyche, and has evolved out of personal experience ... perhaps not the personal experience of "the masses", but then "the masses" don't know anymore about Science for all of it's objectivity and certitude.

At the root of the word, "God" is the psychological experience of awe and giddy. This is in operation regardless of Man or his beliefs. To this experience we associate various elements of culture ... most poignantly religious cuture. Of course, even the term God or god is merely an indicator of this "mysterious aspect of the divine" that exists beyond (and possibly interwoven with) human categories of thought.

No one created the experience of the divine. And whether it is or is not indepent of the human psyche is not known. We would have to have a better understanding of human consciousness itself before we could even approach that question in a scientific manner.

What Man has created however, are cultural forms of the divine; which despite popular belief, do indeed change and evolve over time in accordance with a peoples culturo-historical experience.

So, the essence exists either independetly of Man, or somewhere within the collective psyche of the Man, while all of our thoughts, ideas, terms, etc. for it are indeed man-made.

Of course, if the divine is pure consciousness, and it's gift to man was this creative consciousness, then what would that say of the ultiamte pedigree of our thoughts and ideas??? lol
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