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 sidvicious
Joined: 12/7/2005
Msg: 26
any salvador dali fansPage 2 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
i am an a$$ and people still love me...
who you are and what you do are two different things so to judge someones work on their personality is faulted, most great people are kinda s**tty but they start to believe their own hype... listen dali was insane just look at his work nobody can think of and create such brilliantly disturbing works and be "sane" but who cares, what in sanity but society pushing what it believes is correct on us. believe what you want to believe, do what you want to do as long as you dont hurt anyone, create and enjoy life, be a little crazy its fun, experiment and try new things we are only here for a short time and if we judge toe book by its cover than we close off our minds to great things, love someone freely and give yourself...

dali was awesome and is sorely missed a$$hole and all
 2findU
Joined: 11/19/2005
Msg: 27
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History
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 12/18/2005 3:00:28 PM
I can appreciate his art works. I got turned on to them in college. They were even used in a Hitchcock movie. I think it was Vertigo.
 1971dodge_demon
Joined: 12/28/2005
Msg: 28
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/14/2006 3:12:07 PM
for sure his stuff is cool!!
 spincycle1963
Joined: 1/5/2006
Msg: 29
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/14/2006 4:17:58 PM
My best friend has a signed Dali.Her husband bought it for her.Yes it's definately his signature in his own hand...has been verified as authentic..however the art work is questionable.Dali was notorious for signing blank sheets of art canvas.He often sold his signature.It's an absolutely fascinating piece.I stare at it constantly.It's running figures with fruit heads!In purples.
 aegean_odyssey
Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 30
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History
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/20/2006 1:50:37 PM
time to weigh in here---
first my credentials --

I have been a DOCENT at the Salvador Dali Museum here in St Petersburg Florida
for over 10 years --- Docents are extensively trained in Art History before being allowed
to give a tour -- basically a degree in Dali --
I give 50 - 100 tours a year with from 100 - 500 at times in attendance

About our museum -- It is the largest collection of original oils (96) by DALI in the world
also the largest collection of MasterWorks as by Dali in the world
a MasterWork is defined as a painting 5 feet in any one direction that intellectually consumes the artist from concept to completion for over one year..
between 1949 and 1970 there were only 18 MasterWorks the museum here in Florida has 7 now ...no other institution has more than ONE

Dali and DRUGS ---- Dali never did drugs == never 1000% NO
he could have been a poster child for an anti drug campaign..
his art was his drug -
He is quoted as saying to followers of Timothy Leary
"" Why take LSD when you have the Likes of Salvador Dali "
saying he can create hallucinations with his ART

Dali and Homosexuality --

Dali had few if ANY sexual experiences -- he was impotent !
the allegations of him being GAY are unfounded --
Some say he had an affair with Edward James
who was the premier collector in the 30's
there is no proof..

The best claim for a "GAY DALI" would be that his room mate in Madrid was Federico Garcia
Lorca the Spanish poet lariat killed by Franco..
Lorca loved Dali,,,
Ana Maria (Dali sister)Loved Lorca,,,
Dali only loved GALA...
Lorca rejects Ana Maria,,,
Dali rejects Lorca
& in the end Ana Maria never speaks to her brother again because
she believes that he came between her and Lorca..
She never had a chance--

the other room mate was Luis Bunnell --
and yes Dali did some incredible collaborations with him...
wanna be a fly on that wall??

Collaborations ---
Dali did work with Hitchcock (spellbound)
Dali worked with Coco Channel,, Harpo Marx and many others

He did work with Disney on a cartoon named "Destino"
a Mexican fairy tale ---
Disney and Dali clashed /// ego thing
two small men with egos bigger than life (both deservedly)
When Dali died the estate was given to the State of Spain.

The cartoon was never finished and in the original contract
it stated that the Dali's drafts and works were to be his property
if the project was not completed or shown--

FF to the late 90's ----
Spain wants the drafts and all the works that Disney has
as it is now the rightfull owner && about to go to court on it etc.....

Roy Disney Jr. decides to finish the project rather than return the works
and it was shown during the 100th anniversary
Celebration of Dali's birth here in Florida during 2004
Amazing short film about 7 minutes
so many familiar figures to Dali in the short-

Also much in the way of Metamorphoses into objects ie: FANTASIA
was that the reason Disney rids himself of Dali and never finishes the film?
he did not need to split the money on Fantasia with Dali... but the ideas are all DALI

The Museums in Spain,,,
Unfortunately Dali starts to create the museum in Figures well into his 60's
as most artists need money to live (and GALA needed big $$$)
they sell the art as it is being created to LIVE on....
Dali re- creates many of his pieces in a flashback way
and the museum has a circus atmosphere because Dali wanted it that way..

He is buried in the museum...
but the works there are by NO means the best or definitive collection...

Dali said ""the only difference between him and a madman is he is not mad""
Dali is a GENIUS --- no question about it -
whether you like or dislike his work --
you can not take away his genius and especially
his "super real draftsmanship skills"

On the melting watches:
the original is in NYC at MOMA and has been since 1935
it took one summers afternoon to do the entire work -
inspired by nothing more than a piece of cheese melting in the heat of the summer-
although Dali had some other ideas in his head the work took 3 or 4 hours...

Gala, Breton, Man Ray and Magritte were all there when he did it
the real name is ""the Persistence of Memory""


any question feel free to ask
JOHN
 aegean_odyssey
Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 31
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History
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/20/2006 2:23:17 PM
on soincycle1963 comment

"notorious for signing blank sheets of art canvas"
this is a very complex matter-

1) Dali never signed BLANK CANVAS and has not been accused of that

2) he was accused of signing blank PAPER- yes

3) huge court cases in late 1980's -- even some to Supreme Court
people in Hawaii , California and NYC were convicted, many with galleries

4) fake signatures did appear on Prints / Lithos

5) Dali did not help matters because used hundreds of signatures and at one time did
not even sign LARGE works -- we have a thick book just on signatures

6) paper was stolen from Dali ,, and signatures did make their way onto
paper that was stolen and other paper that was also not of Dali.

7) Dali had some greedy / manipulative people at his side before he died --
he was in very poor health from the death of Gala in June 1983
until his death in January 1989...
he was really to sick (heartbroken) to paint let alone scheme up fakes..

The foremost expert that the United States used was a man named "Albert Field"
he lived until about 2 years ago in Astoria Queens which is part of NYC.
He was the worlds best at verification of Dali's prints
If anyone has a print that was not authenticated by Mr. Field then it may be FAKE...
He was a good friend to Dali and had probably the best collection of his prints..
He did publish the definitive book on Dali Prints however it was very expensive ($350)
and I think now out of print............

Baja John
 spincycle1963
Joined: 1/5/2006
Msg: 32
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/20/2006 4:27:38 PM
Canvas...paper.....I knew it was paper but didn't know the correct term for artist paper...just PAPER huh...ok paper then....semantics
 aegean_odyssey
Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 33
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History
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/20/2006 4:34:07 PM
more Dali --

the most famous of the Crucifixion Paintings are:


*) the "Cross of St. John's of the Cross" #2 of the Masterworks series and resides in Glasgow Scotland

a perfect Christ ascends into heaven - no blood or wounds of Crucifixion very controversial when completed.



**) the "Corpus Hypercubus" #4 in the Masterworks and was a gift to the Metropolitan Museum of Art in NYC

there is an 8 sides cubic cross floating with Gala as the witness to the ascension / crucifixion underneath..



***) the "Last Supper" #5 in the Masterworks and a gift to the National Galleries in Washington DC.

Christ is ascending over the table of the "Last Supper"- you can not differentiate the disciples because Dali wants the focus on Christ.



also : "Swans Reflecting Elephants " is incredible--
no matter which way you look at it ---



some of my favorites from the Morse Collection here in Florida are:

"The Geopoliticus Child watching the birth of a New Man" 1943

"The Basket of Bread " && "The Girls Back" 1926

"First Days of Spring" 1929

"Weaning of Furniture Nutrition" 1934

"Discovery of America by Christopher Columbus" aka "the Dream of Columbus" 1958-59

"Hallucinogenic Toreador" 1970



always a funny anecdote:
Mrs Morse the Co founder and Collector of the Works that become the Salvador Dali Museum here in Florida

would never call the "Grand Masturbator" by its name although she owned it --
She would always call it the "Great "M" "
 manofmyword
Joined: 10/27/2005
Msg: 34
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/20/2006 9:50:07 PM
Sorry "spincycle....... baja......" was not knit picking
Actually in the world of forgeries there is a huge difference between canvas and paper. Besides the texture on paper there are many ways to create a signature and the print can be in ink pen , marker or even pencil. On canvas however the fake is on paint (oil in this case) with a brush. Intent of the fraud is easier to prove with paint on canvas not to mention the reproduced canvas is worth much more than those frauds on paper. Almost anyone can produce a good fraud on paper not to mention in todays world of "Giclee"" , Iris Prints etc.
Just wanted to set things right..............................TONY
 spincycle1963
Joined: 1/5/2006
Msg: 35
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/21/2006 2:03:16 AM
I didn't ask ...
 ellegua220
Joined: 11/10/2005
Msg: 36
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/22/2006 6:22:05 AM
I think his work is great but It is sad that such a great painter was a nazi sympathiser. I dont think its as significant now as it would have been during the war when he was (monetary?) helping the movement.
 simplybefree
Joined: 10/23/2005
Msg: 37
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/22/2006 8:14:53 AM
I absolutely love his surrealistic style. His movie on the other hand (un chien andalou), though innovative for the period, has left me a little disgusted...
 uptown706
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 38
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/22/2006 10:33:14 PM
Some fascinating info there, baja. Next time I'm in the Tamba Bay area I'll have to stop by and see that collection. An old friend of mine in New York has a poster of Geopoliticus Child... in his living room.

I got to see Persistence of Memory at MoMA when I was in New York last year. I was surprised by how small it is.



While I can certainly appreciate Dali's mastery, and his penchant for breaking boundaries and making himself and his art noticed, I'm actually a much bigger fan of Magritte. I think he better expressed the ideas of surrealism. Rather than depict bizarre distorted subjects, his subjects were ordinary, but put in bizarre situations. That way the painting is not about the subjects but rather about the strange relationships between the subjects, and often even between the painting and the viewer.
 Derelict
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 39
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History
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/23/2006 12:46:09 AM
I bought a huge reprint of "Persistance of Memory" A while back and put it on the biggest wall in the apartment surrounded by some odd little statues on end tables, most of which are surrealistic in nature, with the occasional odd balled disembodied stuffed animal head.
 stilllifeinmotion
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 40
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/23/2006 2:11:51 AM
do you think dali's work was not affected by the constraints of society? hmmm.... think about it... let it marinate...
 Pandy
Joined: 11/11/2006
Msg: 41
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/23/2006 4:49:59 AM
Almost anyone can produce a good fraud on paper not to mention in todays world of "Giclee"" , Iris Prints etc.
Just wanted to set things right


Giclee is French for "rip-off", save yourself some heartache and buy an original on canvas within your budget.

I'm in art, and even in the heart of South Carolina, we get a Dali "original" on paper at least once a week in the custom framing end of the gallery. Most conservators (myself included) look at a paper Dali, and advise people not to touch it. They are frauds, IMO, more often than phony Audubon plates, and considerably more difficult to authenticate.

The work itself? I admire the innovation, courage and raw imagination of his works...but at the same time, they are too gloomy and negative in flow for me to want to be around constantly....I wouldn't want a Dali in my living room. I prefer works that make me smile....or soothe me...a mood I want to encourage in my home.

The man himself has made too many quotes pointed toward his own avarice. I regard him as only slightly less materialistic and commercial than Thomas Kinkade. I consider him a sell out with no artistic integrity..(where'd my barfing smiley go?)
 lateā„¢
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 42
any salvador dali fans
Posted: 1/23/2006 6:56:15 AM

do you think dali's work was not affected by the constraints of society?


Who said it wasn't?

Or, are you trying to tell us he wasn't an innovator?
 manofmyword
Joined: 10/27/2005
Msg: 43
dali fans............
Posted: 1/23/2006 9:58:42 AM
Dali is not in with the Kinkades of our time,, he is unique
Yes Dali did like cash but he had help spending it - Gala
 aegean_odyssey
Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 44
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History
Dali,, Dada,, Magritte and Politics
Posted: 1/23/2006 10:04:15 AM
Dali, Dada, Magritte & Politics

Dali was Born in May of 1904---- #1

Collectively most of the Group Known as DADA were about 15 years Dali's senior.

Dada (my favorite movement since 1850) is 100% an Anti War group..

Although Marcel Duchamp ignites the group with "Nude Descending a Staircase"

the group as a whole in all genre' of art are against the Parisian Art Society and WWI

Dada experiments with collage, divisionism and geometric forms in a new way.

Think of the movement like our 60's anti war (Vietnam era) Campaigns here in USA.

After the WAR the group was confused as to a new direction or focus.

Fortunately Sigmund Freud's book "The Interpretation of Dreams " was just translated

from original text German to now French and Spanish...

A leader in the DADA movement Andre' Breton reads this and becomes fascinated with the dream state...

HE now encourages the DADA group through a paper entitled the "Surrealist Manifesto" to now capture the dream state and interpret that via ART.
That is all Surrealism really is:

Salvador Dali was way to young to be part of the DADA movement
as he was not yet 10 when the war breaks out...

However Dali pays homage to Dada in paintings during 1927-28
after being expelled from the "San Fernando Academy of Art" in Madrid
And Dali really gets noticed and accepted into the group with his piece entitled
"First Days of Spring" 1929 --- Freud to the Max in this painting and very troubling.

As the roots were in DADA -- were political in nature
The group did continue with anti war and political agenda
Communism, Socialism & Fascism and the like were in the front pages all over Europe

Dali and the other Surrealists were like Political Cartoonists and attacked all
who were in power (the establishment)

As a result when Franco came into power Dali and others were forced to leave
because of past statements -- Dali lived in Italy during the Spanish Civil War
1936-1938-- Dali studies Renaissance Art while in Italy

Franco kills Dali's best friend poet Federico Garcia Lorca...

at the beginnings of what would become WWII (1938)and as Hitlers power rose.
He (Hitler) decides to eliminate all those who were/are against his campaign.

The Surrealist Group is targeted for its past statements...
as a collective group all leave EUROPE during 1939 and ALL with one exception
(Paul Elluard) live in either Mexico or USA

Dali leaves via Portugal in late 1939 and lives in America from 1940 - 1948
Dali was a particular target of HITLER for his grand criticism of him.
Many of Dali's paintings during the early and mid surreal period were political in nature.

In a repeated fashion Dali SLAMS Hitler -- without much worry

To suggest that Dali was a Nazi or a sympathizer is totally untrue--

Rene' Magritte is one of my favorites from this Dada and Surreal period.
His art is whimsical and imaginative-- I especially like his use of a pun
or joke in his titles-
ex: one of his great paintings entitled "This is not a Pipe" has a giant pipe
floating in the center of the canvas...
Magritte's work always make me smile -- happy art and again very imaginative

Baja JOHN

this is intended as a brief explanation to Dali, Dada, Magritte and Politics
 aegean_odyssey
Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 45
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History
Dali--- Darkness , Money & Genius
Posted: 1/23/2006 12:47:04 PM
Pandy,,, although your opinion is well taken --- of course I am going to
respectfully disagree,,,

Dali was an affluent child and money was not a concern until age 25 (1929)
Dali had and lived through terrible times
His older brother dies at age 22 months 9 months before the birth of our Salvador
Dali -- the older brothers name was Salvador Dali...
at about age 15/16 his mother dies and his father then marries his mothers un-wedded
sister...
Wars -- he lives during / through WWI -- a Spanish Civil War on his home land,
WWII -- the development and deployment of an Atom Bomb,,,
Korea and Vietnam Wars --- and we wonder why there may be darkness in his paintings-
Besides all that he is inpotent !!

Dali's painting were a reflection of living and painting 85 years of the 20th century.
a dissertation just on subjects and definitions of objects in Dali's paintings would take forever.

*****************************************************************

When money was really to be made in reproductions Dali was an old man-
The ideas of a copyright on the art are relatively new--
As some have liked "The Persistence of Memory" and it is one of the most recognizable painting of the 20th century --- Dali only sold it ONCE !
He made no money on reproductions during most of his life...
limited lithos came in very late in his working life....
He created original oils for resale -- and he did paint in the end many pieces-
as Manofmyword. said Gala was spending it faster than Dali could produce it.
Andy Warhol was a student of DALI and took Dali's media and commercial savvies
to a very profitable level --
Given neither are alive today - If they were alive and healthy they would be rich.
Now Warhol did take printmaking to the MAX.....

Yes Breton did say that Dali was "all about money" but a reflection as to how many places Dali would go in his art.. Movies, Department Store Windows, Fashion, Theater, Jewelery
Worlds Fair etc,,,,,, & Today that is normal


***************************************************************
No artist since 1850 has the technical skill of Dali !!
--it is a big statement I know --
this is not to say he is the best artist or that you like his work=
but his Draftsmanship skill is unsurpassed!
many people do not like the subjects of his art
but most are so blown away on his technique / skills

Picasso after seeing "The Basket of Bread" is quoted as saying::
""that even he the great master could not paint that accurately""

this did go to Dali's head for sure== as they had a unique relationship from afar.
to come up with the concept of the multiple images is genius to pull it off
is beyond brilliant !
This is not trickery just a genius in art that had not been done
Dali knew and paid homage to the classics always
the Dutch and Flemish are his favorites
also Velasquez and Rafael to name a few --- Dali always studied art..

In one painting you see reflection of candle light only mastered by Caravaggio.


*******************************************************

it is hard to dignify Kinkade in the same thread as Dali
rather than saying many things I should not about him
all I will ask to those reading --- Thomas Kinkade is that ART??

I do however agree with Pandy 100% in that if you want to invest in ART buy an original.
also but something your going to like looking at...

Most all "Giclee's are not ART" {just my opinion}

Baja JOHN


PS as I use 1850 as a benchmark in some posts -- this is a point where the CAMERA
come into play and ART is changed forever from then on...as the computer has changed
things toda
 Pandy
Joined: 11/11/2006
Msg: 46
Dali--- Darkness , Money & Genius
Posted: 1/23/2006 2:22:36 PM

No artist since 1850 has the technical skill of Dali !!
--it is a big statement I know --
this is not to say he is the best artist or that you like his work=
but his Draftsmanship skill is unsurpassed!
many people do not like the subjects of his art
but most are so blown away on his technique / skills

Picasso after seeing "The Basket of Bread" is quoted as saying::
""that even he the great master could not paint that accurately""


I don't know how anyone can put paramenters on anything as subjective as technical skill, draftsmanship, technique, and "accuracy" (does accuracy refer to rendition of the subject naturally, i.e. photorealism....or in the application of the medium? i.e. the perfection of Kandinsky's lines. ) How do you define "best"? Multitudes of artists have acheived technical perfection...their differences lie in the imagination and varied applications.

As with the question "what is art?", those other attributes are all subjective to the viewer and the critic, IMO
 uptown706
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 47
Dali--- Darkness , Money & Genius
Posted: 1/23/2006 3:15:42 PM
Pandy, I'll agree that Dali was quite the self promoter and perhaps on occasion crossed the line between art and commerce. I can also understand why you might not like his subjects. Although I can appreciate it, I also don't see myself hanging one in my living room.

However, to compare him to Thomas Kincade and call him a sell out is a bit much. His art may have been harsh and challenging at times, but he was an innovator and had his own unique style of expression. He encouraged people to look at art as cultural statements rather than just an image. And he was a master at depicting with fine detail the images in his otherworldly, and somewhat warped, imagination... as opposed to Thomas Kincade who just mass produces pretty pictures.
 aegean_odyssey
Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 48
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History
Dali--- photorealism
Posted: 1/23/2006 3:47:10 PM
The term Photo-realism is a modern term much later than in Dali's time-

Luis and Susan Meisel were instrumental in bringing this
galleries during the mid/ late 70's in SOHO

Dali painted 50 years prior to this,,,

The main instrument for a Photo-realist is a slide projector and
it had not yet been invented when Dali first painted....

The technique Dali used is called "" Super Realism"
and was that of the famous Dutch and Flemish as with Renaissance Masters

five things that made their Art timeless according to Dali were:
1) History
2) math
3) science
4) religion
5)politics

They recorded every aspect of life then--- they were the camera
and as such in each era someone will say that he/she was the best in that genre'

Not sure if many would argue that Ansel Adams was the best
"Naturalist Photographer"

Have you ever seen the painting in the reference-
good reproductions or live in person ?

{Pandy as a sincere side note-- I will extend an offer to bring you to the Dali Museum as my guest for a all access view of the Museum and works contained for public and non public viewing}

"The Basket of Bread" and sister painting "Girls Back" both done in Spring 1926
they get Dali international fame,,,,YET Dali is STILL only 21 when he paints them...

When Picasso proclaims what he so publicly did , I think I am good company-
Dali accomplished this free handed without any of the aids available today..

If you meet Artists today -- ( a good venue is ART EXPO or ART BASEL)
you may be in for a surprise...
First what is needed is to remove all the false teachings and rumors about Dali and then remove any controversy in subject matter...Focus on the technique only

after that then:
My statement on Dali's Draftsmanship and Technical skill are by no means a stretch
it is my opinion but one that is shared among artists I have met worldwide and Dali's
peer group
 aegean_odyssey
Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 49
view profile
History
Dali--- photorealism
Posted: 1/23/2006 7:33:09 PM
PS --- I forgot to post

the two paintings sited in the previous post
"Basket of Bread" and "Girls Back" circa 1926
were not done on Canvas

They both are Oil on Wood Panel
even more incredible-- I thought I might add that

Baja JOHN
 NYKID45
Joined: 12/25/2005
Msg: 50
Dali--- photorealism
Posted: 1/24/2006 10:31:51 PM
Everytime i get on this thread,i get into it more and more.Learning about his legend.I have a Cd by a band from Los Angeles,called Toy Matinee.Where the Co-founders of the group The Late Great Kevin Gilbert and Patrick Leonard (producer of some Madonna's CDs).Pay Homage to Mr. Dali.In a song called "Turn it on Salvidor",with Jullian Lennon doing back-up vocals.It's a really good Song and Cd.If you can find it,I recommend it highly.Back when it first came out in the late 80's ,i knew it wouldn't be a hit CD.but the songs are very tastefully done,like Dali's works,and who knows,if Mr Gilbert hadn't passed away soon after.We might have had a Turn it on Part II.So the next time you're looking in your local new or used CD shop and you see the CD.Toy Matinee,Pick it up,you won't be disappointed.Ciao,NY.
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