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 Ellimac
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 356
Cheating- can you forgive?Page 4 of 59    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)
actually it is

http://www.athealth.com/consumer/disorders/forgetfulness.html
 canyunflyer
Joined: 2/6/2006
Msg: 359
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Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/13/2007 8:56:47 AM
Well, i see here is another one year long thread. I didn't read it all...(who can?) but I see way too much non-forgiveness attitudes going on. I wonder if you people know what forgiveness is? forgiveness has nothing to do with excusing the perpetrator, or forgtting abut what they did. forgiveness is about 'letting go' of our own inner need to hate and carry resentments. So...when we forgive, it is really about and FOR us. Not them.

Is it possible for a relationship to survive infidelity? Sure. But it requires hard work on both parties. and the guilty one absolutely Has to be willing to take responsibility...be an open book... and do "whatever it takes" to restore the trust they have betrayed. If there are no children involved.... I'm not so sure it is really worth all the long hard work. that is a personal call. But... Until the offender gets what they did to the other party...(and I mean completely gets it)... there can be no hope of success.
 dave1234
Joined: 11/7/2004
Msg: 375
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Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/13/2007 7:13:13 PM
Hardcoredaydreamer wrote in msg 391,
circumstances matter i think. in most situations i say give em the boot but then sometimes is it really worth throwing something great away over something stupid?


I agree. I have seen marriages and young families torn apart by divorce and when speaking with the people it is as if there is a requirement to end a marriage if ones partner has an affair. Sure, there is the disease aspect but when listening to people whose partner had an affair they talk about humiliation and think their friends will laugh at them if they keep their partner. "Who else knew?" "They must think I'm a fool." The worst part is their friends, upon finding out, reinforce that aspect. "Throw them to the curb" is the common refrain. "Respect yourself."

That's all fine but where are those friends when the single parent family is struggling? What happens to the children when family holidays are missing one side of the family; the estrangement from grandparents, aunts and uncles and cousins?

All the foregoing and much, much more results in the person who initiated the divorce to further despise the partner who strayed. It's like a snowball effect. While there is no shortage of people who claim they found a better life after divorce my observations have been the initial affair pales in comparison to the rough time ahead after the divorce.

While I certainly don't condone affairs I believe you spoke very wise words when you said, ".. is it really worth throwing something great away over something stupid?" Immediately following an affair is not the time to make such a serious decision. The damage is done. Taking time to think things through is of the utmost importance because things almost always get worse after divorce before they get better.

The ego can be a terrible thing. People never talk about the lonely nights nor the disruption and sorrow on the part of the children. Watching a close friend go through it, all the while the adulterer moving on with their life, can be a sobering experience.
 ISORealismNOTPerfection
Joined: 1/30/2006
Msg: 383
Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/14/2007 8:52:37 AM
I could forgive a cheater, NOT FORGET & most definitely would walk out the door..If they don't have enough respect for you & your relationship to be faithful, they have NO respect for you. Unless you are a couple with an "open relationship", well then, that would be a different story entirely.
 Mick4astart
Joined: 8/14/2006
Msg: 385
Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/14/2007 9:35:12 AM
"Unless you are a couple with an "open relationship", well then, that would be a different story entirely."

Yes & No, in IMO ..... Cheating = lying = loss of trust = a break in communications = equals a crossing of a couple's 'assumed' boundaries. In both the lifestyle world of swingers as well as thee polyamorous (open marriage) world, openness & honesty are paramount & cheating is a big No No!

There are ethical christian swinging groups; there are loving, poly relationships where multiple, safe sex partners, straight & Bi are resoectful, and ethical lovers .... but COMMON to 99.9% of any that I would be happy to trust and call a close friend, would be an understanding that 'cheating' is the breaking of that trust and may well be a deal breaker - even for the most open minded in today's society.

Back to basics - open & honest commincation and a full understanding of eah other's tolerances will negate the need for nearly all cheating. Society would benefit, families & chidren would benefit and the only group that might not come out ahead would be the lawyers!!! LOL!

(thoughts from a 65 yr old grandfather who is having to do a lot of work and personal processing in this area)

M.
 rome46
Joined: 8/20/2006
Msg: 391
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Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/14/2007 12:24:10 PM
nope i connot forgive that.
 justplainbored
Joined: 1/6/2007
Msg: 396
Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/14/2007 1:10:58 PM
I've tried, and it came back to bite me. So a big fat "no frigging way"
 blondago56
Joined: 8/21/2004
Msg: 409
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Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/15/2007 12:47:49 PM
can i forgive him looking at porn over me on the web? can i forgive him overly-flirting with that sneaky b*tch at the party while i was in the bathroom? can i forgive him kissing/touching someone else when he(& she) KNOWS he's 'got me'? can i forgive him for talking about personal things with a co-worker that verge on sexual harassment if someone else heard it? can i forgive him of his c*ck getting hard and finding its way to another females' conquering vagina? NO..... 'what comes around goes around.... it goes Both Ways...
 Mr Bain
Joined: 12/6/2004
Msg: 420
Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/15/2007 11:12:08 PM
I'd forgive my girlfriend for cheating, but not my wife. We're talking a big difference in the degree of committment, and therefore, the level of trust.
 Mortavius
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 443
Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/26/2007 9:43:49 AM
Of course I can forgive them. Forgiving comes easily. I don't hold malice for later use if someone is truly sorry.

However, that said....

TRUST is an entirely DIFFERENT matter than forgiveness. Will I ever trust them to be faithful in another relationship with me? Nope. Once I'm gone, I'm gone. If it didn't work the first time, it isn't going to work the second time. I've been down that road far too many times.


Burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me.
 misty_20
Joined: 1/5/2007
Msg: 450
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Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/26/2007 2:30:32 PM
well iv never been cheated on so i wouldnt no how it feels but ones and cheater always a cheat becouse if a guy or gurl can **** someone als y the r wit u well **** wat dose that tell u
 JustCallMeMike
Joined: 5/29/2006
Msg: 452
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Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/27/2007 4:09:51 AM

Someone that loves you, does not hurt you. They just could never cheat on you. You may love him but he does not. Lovetranslates to all the things that you do genuinely for the other person and cheating is not one of them. A cheater is also a liar and can never be trusted.


And still I have yet to read the answer to my questions that I asked twice so far...

1. Do you think you have never hurt someone?
2. Do you think someone has never hurt you?
3. Is not lying, stealing, bad mouthing, abuse, playing with emotions, showing signs of mistrust (even if trust has been proven), etc. not forms of hurt? Would you really trust a person who did that once to you?
4. How is cheat SO big a deal breaker and the previous I mentioned aren't?

I wish the world would explain this to me, I guess my enlightenment has removed me from this portion of thinking. I will share my logic/wisdom/understanding in this if I can ever get an answer to my questions.

D~N~R
 JustCallMeMike
Joined: 5/29/2006
Msg: 458
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Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/27/2007 7:30:07 AM
To me intimacy has nothing to do with sex. Sex is just what it is, a action that "SHOULD BE" derived from a level of trust and intimacy earned. The same with anything else I trust a person to. Just like friends who steal from me or lie to me constantly or often enough makes me question them. The same is if a woman I love does the same thing. The sharing of mind, body, spirit, materials, time, etc. all comes from an act of trust. And to me it would make no since to hold one aspect higher than all others.

I can tell you from experience. The trust is not and should never be based on sex. But what comes out of that person's mouth and actions.

My aunty brought up a really good point when I was younger (as does the path to the dark side speech Yoda gave). If you are willing to lie (which is where most sins stem from), you are willing to cheat. If you are willing to cheat, you are willing to steal. If you are willing to steal, you are willing to kill.

I think this should be my last post on this subject. It is just one of the many things I really disagree with to a point. For everyone non-cheater and cheater alike. I pray that you can find that love you want and deserve...Life is to short to let mistrust keep you away from true love or its true meaning.
 dave1234
Joined: 11/7/2004
Msg: 462
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Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 1/27/2007 9:55:26 AM
Dark-N-Romantic asks in msg 479,
How is cheat SO big a deal breaker and the previous I mentioned aren't?


I believe it stems from the potential consequences cheating could have caused in the past.

As we've evolved as a species we've learned to control our emotions. It wasn't all that long ago when murdering an adulterer was considered a crime of passion in many countries and dealt with less severely. That's also why we hear the term "in cold blood". If one murders a person in "cold blood" it's considered more heinous that if it was in passion/rage or "heated blood" although crimes of passion are becoming less and less "acceptable".

Anyway, to get back on track, the first reason is adultery could lead to unwanted pregnancy. That could result in raising another man's child. We have to remember that in the far past people lived in tribes/kingdoms. It was a father to son progression. Imagine passing the "Empire" (kingdom, tribe, country) to a son who was the progeny of ones enemy. (Bear in mind our ancestors enjoyed warring even more than certain leaders today but that's another topic.) So, adultery could and usually did lead to bloodshed.

The second concern was survival. A couple's life depended on each other. The man went hunting for food and the woman stayed in the cave/hut raising the children, preparing meals and protecting their shelter.

Even if we go back just a couple of hundred years and think about the settlers, the man was out hunting for food, rounding up cattle miles from home, etc. while his wife raised the children and protected the homestead from marauders. Because sex is so emotional and people had less control over their emotions the chances of the adulterer leaving for their lover was a major concern and a person’s very survival depended on their partner.

In a similar vein people were hung for horse stealing. We don’t hear of that today but when ones horse was their only form of transportation stealing ones horse was condemning a man to death. Lack of water, exposed to the elements…there were no search helicopters or GPS systems in those days.

So, to answer your question, thousands of years of survival instinct was/is involved.
 Wraith6765
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 464
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Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 2/3/2007 8:18:00 PM
No. It takes a lot to push me into believing that a relationship can't work (once it's really started, that is--obviously I'm not chasing after something that doesn't work to begin with), but cheating is an instant deal-breaker that will result with the cheater out on their ass in a heartbeat.
 honeysweetbun
Joined: 1/30/2007
Msg: 468
Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 2/4/2007 3:10:24 AM
Yes i can and will forgive if he's got dough rolling in my pocket for life and i stay home in a big mansion and look pretty everyday ...

No i can't and will not forgive if i work my butt off and share to pay the bills.

just kidding ... i don't know the answer but the above works for many wives or gfs i know..
 Bubbles27
Joined: 12/19/2006
Msg: 469
Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 2/4/2007 3:21:37 AM
You cheat on me and it is over. There is NO excuse for cheating, none...zip zero nada. I wouldn't forgive it, I wouldn't get over it. I wouldn't give them the chance to even try to explain themselves.

I do think that just because someone cheated in their past doesn't mean they will cheat on everyone they date.
 dave1234
Joined: 11/7/2004
Msg: 474
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Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 2/4/2007 8:36:34 AM
RE: Msg 502.

Good for you, Oldfarmboy! Not only did she have an affair but she physically left you for a time and you have the emotional maturity to deal with it. I have personally seen.... and heard of many more.... couples throwing in the towel and have witenssed the hardship and suffering that followed.

People say it's better for the children if the couple split but that's just said to justify ones ego. Sure, if ones partner is going to be nasty and miserable all the time then obviously it is better but as for the idea that staying with a partner that strayed damages children, that's nonsense.

Children are either too young to understand the meaning of adultery or, if they are sexually aware, they are concerned about their own sexuality. An 8 year old or a 12 year old or a 15 year old is not going to dwell on mommy's or daddy's indiscretion. People who claim otherwise do so to justify their own behavior.

What you and your wife are doing, getting counselling and working on holding the family together, is the best thing you can do for your daughter regardless of her age. You have a unique opportunity to forge new bonds with your wife, stronger than any previous ones and always remember, by her coming back, she chose you over the other guy.

Best wishes!!
 BearGal
Joined: 1/15/2007
Msg: 479
Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 2/4/2007 6:51:41 PM
NO.. NO No .nuf said.. this is called. you just blew up the foundation of our relationship. Intimes of trouble I can see, looking, swearing, talking, not talking, thinking and going out with the guys/ girls.. I don't see cheating. that smacks of disrespect of you and me.
 BearGal
Joined: 1/15/2007
Msg: 480
Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 2/4/2007 6:59:42 PM
everyone is different. My life is not yours, my relationship is not yours. Believe in you, listen to your heart in the quiet times. Breathe.. Relax.. Breathe.. ask your heart what to do.
Peace
R E L A X
 DonSuave
Joined: 1/27/2007
Msg: 482
Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 2/4/2007 7:02:56 PM
Never been in the situation but I am prepared. You DUMP them period!! and that is not my oppinion [IT IS A RULE]!!
 Jude52
Joined: 10/15/2006
Msg: 485
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Cheating- can you forgive?
Posted: 2/5/2007 9:04:15 AM
Been there>>>done that in a few relationships,
Once a cheater & a liar, always a cheater & a liar it seems.
So the answer in my book of life is: A BIG NO!
Move on, I have packed bags and moved the other half out
when my heart was breaking because of lying & cheating on
his part. It is hard to forget once u give your heart so fully
to a partner but it eventually subsides and you are glad you
did move on! I am the type of lady when I do give my heart
to a man..it is totally to him, so I expect the same in return.
Godspeed to you all out there finding the love that will last a lifetime &
the trust in a partner that makes you feel as one! That kind of
relationship is rare and hard to come by..so relish it when it does.
(from my experiences)

Jude
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