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 SCUDRUNN3R
Joined: 11/30/2006
Msg: 129
Short MenPage 3 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
I'm a short man. We're awsome.

Means I get to fly a Cessna 152 and go "Spinning" whereas the taller pilots have to train in the 72's. Which don't spin or stall as easily.

It's great to be short.
 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 130
Short Men
Posted: 12/20/2008 9:20:13 PM

Being with what you can get rather than what you actually want is indeed settling. It's true some older women give up and take what they can get since the pool shrinks but again that's nothing to be proud of. I'd much rather be chosen than be "the best a guy could get".


But of you're a chronically single woman...you might think about adjusting your list of "wants". It's all those "wants" that is the shallow problem. Maybe if these women looked more to what they NEED instead of what they "want" (which is always going to be heavily influenced by our society, friends, family, the media, etc.), they would be a lot happier people.

Going after what you NEED above what you WANT is not settling.

Believing otherwise would be like saying "I want a Million Dollars, and I'm not going to work if I get anything less than that. I wouldn't want to settle and thereby be thought of as a loser."
 JasonTKD22
Joined: 10/11/2005
Msg: 131
Short Men
Posted: 12/20/2008 9:55:23 PM

They are screaming to be heard


Only time I ever do that is if I get a "bingo". Gotta make sure the person calling the numbers can hear ya

(......what? There's lots of people my age or younger here in the bay area that go to the bingo places. ...Besides, they have good food there. lol)
 chuckyB51
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 134
view profile
History
Short Men
Posted: 12/21/2008 9:02:27 PM
^^^
It sounds like your friend has learned the tricks and trades of being a Pick Up Artist. For a shorter male to be successful in the dating world it is a good idea to study the pick up artist community.
 MelloDLyn
Joined: 10/25/2004
Msg: 137
view profile
History
Short Men
Posted: 12/22/2008 12:51:33 PM
Because u feel like your with a child. Because a guy 6 foot or taller makes u feel secure and u can get lost in his arms and it makes u feel safe. Last but not least......they have small pee wees! Lets say all the short men I have dated! Maybe for some out there this isn't the case! That is why now I try and avoid short, I don't want the short end of the stick! For any of you short men if u don't have a small pee wee, I'm sorry!
 djscretefun
Joined: 12/7/2008
Msg: 139
Short Men
Posted: 12/22/2008 3:56:04 PM
It probably wouldn't work anyways, as I find women these days to be wiser at an early age!



Having to lie, manipulate and put on a bunch of fake charms to woo a women into having sex with me? no thank you
 chuckyB51
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 142
view profile
History
Short Men
Posted: 12/22/2008 9:37:52 PM
Zain...It seems that you don't really know what a pickup artist is. All men pick-up women, some are just better at it. Those men who are good at it are artists. The term pick-up artist began with a book "How to Pick Up Girls" by Eric Weber in the 1970's. It male subculture based on the goal of improved sexual and romantic abilities with women using either self-help, an understanding of social psychology and/or techniques derived from neuro-linguistic programming. Being a pick-up artist is not just about sex, it is more about understanding women and the female psychology. There is nothing wrong with a man learning how to interact and communicate better with women.

I think it is a good idea for men who are below average in height to learn the techniques of the pick-up artist community. This helps to equalize things with the taller men out there. At the end of the day women are attracted to a man's personality...A big part of this is how to communicate your personality to a woman. Pick-up artists also teach how to use just the right amount of humor to attract a woman...What woman doesn't want to laugh and have a good time with the comfort that is created through humor. It also teaches how to create higher value...This means giving yourself higher value than other men around. Make her want to be with you and only you. Lastly, it teaches about confidence and how to build it. Confidence is an area that most shorter men lack and women can see it.

Someone who really understands PUA doesn't lie or manipulate and it's not just about sex.
 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 149
Short Men
Posted: 1/3/2009 7:48:27 AM

What I have a problem with is a man who has on his profile that he's 5'10", insists on the phone that he's 5'10", but when we meet, he's only 5'4". That's what ticks me off and is the deal breaker, no matter how wonderful he may be otherwise. If he's not comfortable with his height, then he's not comfortable with who he is. And lying is a huge red flag for me, no matter how inconsequential the lie may seem to him.


It's hard to believe that a man who was 5'4" would put 5'10" on his profile. He was probably 5'8" or something and you misjudged his height.

But more importantly, if a guy is really 5'4"...it would make sense for him to lie. 5'10" would be a bit too much, but the strategy is still sound. There are more women who will reject him for his height than would reject him for lying and so it only make sense to lie. Dating is a numbers game. Also, a 5'4" guy can be totally comfortable with his height and still lie about it. This is because his height is not his problem...it's the problem of the insecure women who reject him on the basis of his height. So by lying about it, he will get more "initial hits" which he might be able to convert to successful dates.

Plus, if you didn't care about his height...why did you ask him AGAIN how tall he was over the phone? I think he did the right thing by lying. He didn't really owe you anything and you didn't owe him anything. You take a chance, and that's how it works.

 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 154
Short Men
Posted: 1/3/2009 11:21:33 PM
I don't condone any guy lying about his height. And it makes it tough for guys like me that are honest about their height (5-7 in my case) because women assume most shorter guys are adding a couple of inches.


So now, a short guy shouldn't lie about his height for the benefit of guys who are taller than him? That makes no sense (no offense). The short guy owes you (his competition) even LESS than he owes the woman who he's trying to date. It's a jungle out there. No one owes anyone anything. If lying improves a guy's (or woman's) chances at finding love...then more power to them. They are taking a risk for lying and we all take a risk when we agree to a date with someone.

It's just that in the case of a short man; the risk of the lie is much less than the risk that comes with simply being how God made you. A short guy on this site once changed his height by making himself several inches taller. He wanted to see if he would get different results with the same profile. When he posted his true height at 5'5", he got zero hits over a four month period. Then he took the exact same profile and picture and made his height 6'0" tall. He got 72 hits during the same four months. He didn't accept any dates with them, but he was able to prove a point to himself.

This has nothing to do with short men, but about others who believe them to be inferior for various reasons. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that a short guy who doesn't lie about his height is putting too much emphasis on his height. It's like he's saying "I believe that my height is so important that I'd rather be single forever than to forsake my height and lie so that I may get a date".


Plus I never understood anyway why anyone would misrepresent themselves on their profile because eventually it will become apparent who you actually are.


This is an easy one. The answer lies in the phenomenon of "selection error". What I mean is that the people who care about what you are misrepresenting (in this case, height) would not have gone out with you in the first place if they had known the truth. So that's a wash. BUT, the people who don't care about what you are misrepresenting will NOT EVEN NOTICE that you lied. So the misrepresentation can sometimes be a win/win. You get to weed out the shallow people and still date the people who don't care about what you are lying about. The only time that this logic won't work is when the person is rejected for the misrepresentation itself, and not for the underlying disfavored characteristic. However, this is rarely the case with height. In 99.99% of the cases, a woman cares more about the height than the lie. I can prove this to be true, if anyone cares to know.


The poster who explained that the problem is not necessarily with the short guy but the insecure woman who won't date him is very correct. Too many times the guy is the one accused of having an issue with his height when often the reverse is true. And I've always believed most short guys lile myself have to posses a lot more mental toughness to deal with the higher level of rejection than a taller guy has to endure.


I can see that. But most women aren't going to attribute ANY positive characteristics to a guy BECAUSE he is short. They will attribute positive characteristics to a tall man, based on his height. But generally, only negative characteristics are attributed to a man's short stature...be they true or imagined.


Ultimately though it comes down to being a decent person who is likeable and fun to be around


That's AFTER you've already got the date. How are you going to get the date?


owever while most women here may say they want a nice, and genuine guy......that only applies if he's tall enough in many cases.


Hence, the purpose of the lie.


 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 155
Short Men
Posted: 1/3/2009 11:22:45 PM

I have nothing against men shorter than myself. What I have a problem with is a man who has on his profile that he's 5'10", insists on the phone that he's 5'10", but when we meet, he's only 5'4". That's what ticks me off and is the deal breaker, no matter how wonderful he may be otherwise.


How many men have you dated whom are shorter than you?

 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 156
Short Men
Posted: 1/3/2009 11:33:30 PM

Do people who post pictures that are 10 years old benefit when the people they meet reject them? How about the ones who list "no" for kids on their profile because their kids don't live with them?


Yes...all those people benefit by lying. A 40 year old woman has a better chance of landing a man if she says she's 30. This is a fact...whether we like it or not.


A short guy is wasting his energy going for a girl who cares about height. Why not focus on the ones that don't care?


Two reasons, I assume:

1) The pool of women who don't care about height is infinitesimally small. It would be like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

2) How would a short guy know the "I don't hate your height" women from the "I hate you" women?


We all want someone who wants us for who and what we are not in spite of it.


We all want that...but I don't know that this is possible for a short guy. First of all, height does not make the man. So a man might be giving his short stature too much power by insisting on a woman who loves his short stature. I don't see anything wrong with finding a woman who doesn't like short men, but whom likes a particular short man because of his other qualities.

And usually, that's how it happens.

Do you know ANY women who prefer short men over tall men? I don't. I'm not saying that they don't exist. I'm saying that I've never met one. And yet, short men still find love and get married. Why is that? The answer is that women are loving short men "in spite" of their height. You can even see this in the language women use when they talk about the short guy in their life. They'll say things like "He's short, BUT ". Or they'll say, "I don't mind dating a short man if he doesn't have a Napoleon Complex" (read: "I don't date short men because they are inferior to me...but I will date a short man who is different from how I judge other short men").

So yeah...no one wants someone to want us "in spite of what we are"...but this is often the best option for a very short guy.

Hey...don't kill the messenger people. I'm on short guy's side.

 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 158
Short Men
Posted: 1/4/2009 8:44:22 AM

And women regardless if they care about a mans height or not will ALWAYS care when he lies.


Oh really?

I can prove this to be false through a simple thought experiment. It only requires that you be honest with yourself and truly think about what would happen in the scenario.

Imagine that a guy puts up a profile on POF in which he claims to be 5'9". Imagine now that five different random women view his profile and like what they see. Now imagine that he chats with all five of these women and he sets up dates with them. He plans to date one on Monday, one on Tuesday, one on Wednesday, etc.

Now imagine that he shows up to each date, except instead of being 5'9". . . . he is actually 6'0". Now, he has lied about his height. Of the five women, how many would you honestly expect would reject him for the lie?

If you are honest with yourself, you should reply "zero". None of the women would reject him because he lied about his height and is taller than he claimed. Some might question him or assume that it must be an honest mistake, but none would simply reject him because he lied. That is because the height is more important than the lie.

Now imagine the same scenario...except this time, the guy shows up as 5'6" instead of his claimed 5'9". Notice that the magnitude of the lie is the same (3 inches of height). But how many of the women would reject him this time? Four out of five? All five? I don't know. But I know that more would reject him for lying about three inches in this direction than three inches in the other direction. Therefore, it's not about the lie, it's about the height. The women who would "reject him for the lie" are the same women who wouldn't have scheduled a date in the first place if they knew the truth. Therefore, he loses nothing by lying. He actually increases the number of potential dates he goes on.

 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 159
Short Men
Posted: 1/4/2009 8:46:33 AM

Jonathan, you are the reason so many women don't want to date short guys. Get over it. You can't change your height but you can change your attitude.


I'm 5'10". I don't consider myself short. But the issue interests me.

But, I find it interesting that you assumed that I muse be short. So now that you know that I'm average height...what does that say about my "attitude"?

 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 162
Short Men
Posted: 1/4/2009 9:04:17 AM

I don't' believe that for one second jonathan and neither does anyone else. Every single short guy thread you participate in . Don't think you are fooling anyone


I'm not going to go into my history or how I came across this topic...but it doesn't really matter if you believe me. I'm average height at 5'10".

So, I guess if a woman is concerned about how fat women are treated by men...she too must be fat?

 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 163
Short Men
Posted: 1/4/2009 9:17:51 AM


However the guy who is short already has a strike against him with a lot of girls therefore the fact he lied will provide the perfect reason for the woman to reject him and at the same time she won't have to admit it's in part due to his lack of height


This was the whole point of the scenario. Women care about the height more than the lie. They only use the "lie" as a pretense for rejection so that they seem less shallow. And, it's not "in part due to his height"...it's 100% due to that. The "I rejected him for lying" is pure pretense.

Therefore, there is no problem with a short guy lying. He would have been rejected any way by those types of women. It's a wash. He only increases the number of dates he goes on. He must first go on the date if he wants a chance to overcome her height bias. You've got to be in it to win it.


Just curious Jon as I see your height listed as 5-11 (which is usually adequate for most girls) have you ever considered adding an inch to your height knowing six foot is often a magical number most women would consider an ideal height for their mate. Once again not saying you're not tall enough but do you wonder if your responses would be greater if the listing was six foot?


I've already added an inch to my height. I'm really 5'10", but whose going to notice one inch? The reason I didn't go two inches is because I'm tall enough for that not to matter. Also, people get more "offended" if you claim to be 6'0" and you are not. For some reason, our society deems 6'0" as some "magical number". It's apparently blasphemous to claim 6'0" when you are shorter, but not so bad to claim 5'11"...go figure.

It probably has to do with the standard units of measurements. If our society used the metric system, then it probably wouldn't matter. 6'0" tall sounds "special" to women. But 183cm probably seems less so.

And yes, my responses (if I were looking on this site) would increase if I were 6'0". But if I were shorter, it would increase more. For instance, a 5'10" man get's less benefit claiming 5'11" than a 5'6" man would benefit from claiming 5'7".

Also...there is no such thing as "tall enough". It's all in the minds of women. There is nothing wrong with being 5'4" as a guy. There is nothing wrong with being 6'8" as a guy. Height is not good or bad...it's just a physical characteristic that has no connection to your physical health or well-being (except for the discriminatory factor).

 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 165
Short Men
Posted: 1/4/2009 10:03:41 AM

I've tried meeting men on POF who would be considered short. I tend to lose interest because they lack self-confidence and I become annoyed. If I were to meet someone who is considered to be short and he possessed self-confidence (no arrogance), his height would be a non-issue.




Short men supposedly lack self confidence, but the ones who have it might be "arrogant"? Huuummm. This is most likely a perception issue. Have you ever met a self-confident short man?

There are plenty of self-confident short men (in my experience, most short men are no more or less confident than tall men). But when a short man displays confidence, he is seen by others as having a "napoleon complex". If a tall man demonstrates the same self-confidence, he is seen by others as being an "alpha male".


Absolutely. Ever heard "Fake it till you make it"? I'd give that a shot if I were you


This is what I've been saying about lying. Short guy's should fake their height until they've met a woman who isn't hung up on height.

 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 168
Short Men
Posted: 1/4/2009 11:09:21 AM
In a nutshell survivor sums it up.....she like most girls find taller guys more attractive. And that's why it makes no sense to lie....because they will meet you and will not find you attractive. So why bother to waste a girls time and at the same time have to walk away disapointed. No matter how many rejections/disapointments I've had to face in my lifetime I would never resort to lying about my height.


So, we know that most women find taller guys more attractive. Are you saying then that short men should shoot themselves? Why should a short man be concerned about the feelings of a woman who would reject him because of how God made him?

The issue is that without seeing a woman in person, a short man is not going to know the women who find short men unattractive from the women who can be persuaded to give him a chance. In most cases, we've already established that short men enter into happy relationships with women because the women get over themselves...not because they find the needle-in-a-haystack woman who likes shorter men over taller men.


And that's why it makes no sense to lie....because they will meet you and will not find you attractive.


How do you know this? If this were true, then short men would NEVER enter relationships...and yet, they do. Granted, they do so at a much lesser rate than taller men, but short men usually find women to date.

You don't know whether a woman will find you attractive enough until you meet her IN PERSON.


So why bother to waste a girls time and at the same time have to walk away disapointed.


Because a short man should have NO CONCERN for the feelings or "time" of a woman who is hung up on height. A short man cannot know the good women from the bad until he meets them in person. And he shouldn't concern himself with those women who will be disappointed. That's their problem, not the short man's problem.


No matter how many rejections/disapointments I've had to face in my lifetime I would never resort to lying about my height.


Then you might have a Complex (if such a thing exists). You are giving so much power to your short stature that you are shutting yourself out of the dating game. You yourself have said that the rejections you've faced over your height have been so numerous that you've stopped contacted women all together. This is totally the wrong approach. You already have nothing to lose (apparently)...so why not lie so that you can meet more women. Yes, some will be "disappointed"...but who cares about them anyway?

Dating is not for the weak. Get out there, my friend. Create a new profile and lie about your height. If your height isn't really the sum of your being (which it shouldn't be), then you should be able to lie about it. Just don't get carried away. No more than three inches.

Good luck.

 Skater-Man
Joined: 4/12/2008
Msg: 170
Short Men
Posted: 1/4/2009 11:27:55 AM
I am 5'6" & saying I am really 5'9" is going to be seen as obviously false.... as I am not average height .... but SHORT. Women are FIXATED on tall men in our modern western culture . My upbringing has formed my personality & contributed to my personal successes ... & has not been hindered by my height. Women like me & befriend me ..... they do not date me because of THEIR social conditioning. Thus if I do happen to cross paths with a women that will go beyond friendship ..... so be it. It will be based on truth & honesty which forms trust ..... which is needed in a relationship. Life does not give us all that we want on a silver platter & I can only be me, true to myself & others ......... & that is the most important start. Cheers.
 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 172
Short Men
Posted: 1/4/2009 12:08:12 PM
But I'm not content with the concept of having to "persuade" a woman who might otherwise want a taller man to date me. In my experiences the old saying "the leopard doesn't change his spots" has rung true and I wouldn't want to feel as though someone "settled" for me. Or that I should thank my lucky stars she "gave me a chance" because I'd be better off by myself.


aaaaauuuggh!

All men have to persuade women to go for them. That's the name of the game. Plus, dating is a numbers game and so you have to be in it to win it. Get it out of your head that there is some magical woman out there who prefers short men to tall men and that she is just waiting for that honest short man for her to contact him. That ain't happening.

You have to be 100x more aggressive than you're being now.

Plus, the idea that "a leopard doesn't change his spots" refers to male leopards, not female ones. I've got several female friends. Some of them are with "short men" and are very happy. But I have heard all of those women say that they could NEVER even consider dating a man shorter than such-and-such height. Women don't know what they want, and their minds are easily changed once a man gets in their head.

Our society is fixated on height, and so that's why women seem more dramatic about it than any other thing that they might find unattractive. However, once a woman falls in love, then she will like everything that her lover represents. Suddenly, she will like bald men, even though she refused to date one in the past. Suddenly, she won't think money is so important and that a man's wealth resides in his kind heart . Trust me, women change their minds constantly.

But the only way to do that is to meet them in person and kill them with your charm. What's the worst that can happen? She gets a free meal in exchange for having to spend one hour of dinner with *gasp* a SHORT MAN in a semi-romantic context. How embarrassing for her . But, the good news is that you'll be doing other short guys a favor, even if you don't get that particular girl.

Our culture is so biased against short men that there are some women out there whose worst nightmare is to be seen with a short man in public. It would do these women some good to be put in a situation which proves that short men are really no different from tall men. It's not going to change her overnight, but it should help things out for your fellow short brothers.


And no my height, at least in my opinion, is not the sum total of who I am. Unfortunately that's not the way many women here see it.


Here or anywhere else in our culture. For many (most?) women, a short man's height is all the woman needs to know about the guy. Nothing else matters. But that's the reason why you should lie about it. You only have a shot once you are on the date. You have NO SHOT if they shoot your down before they read any of your profile...which they will do when they see your height.

Again...good luck, my friend.

 Jonathan Doeman
Joined: 5/18/2007
Msg: 174
Short Men
Posted: 1/4/2009 3:30:26 PM

What a bunch of judgmental elitist crap. Who made you the determiner of good and bad based on what a person finds attractive?


No one made me the determiner of good and bad people. But it would be totally reasonable for a short man to judge a woman who would judge him based on his height, without knowing anything about him, as a bad person. Or at least a shallow person whom he should want nothing to do with. Is that so "elitist"? Why should a short man want to be with a woman who is so shallow that she absolutely refuses to acknowledge his existence because of how many inches his eyebrows are from the ground?


You treat people well because it's who you are not because the other person is good or bad based on your judgments.


This has nothing to do with "treating people well". A short man is not "treating people badly" by lying about his height. If the woman is so humiliated to be seen in public with a short man, then whose problem is that? You're blaming the short man, and I'm blaming the woman. It's not a matter of "treating people well/badly".


That's just sickening. I'll tell a guy I'm athletic build and when he meets me and I'm really carting around an extra 100 pounds it's on him for being deceived. Besides I don't "owe" him honesty because I wouldn't have had a chance if he knew I wasn't what he expected.


Exactly.

Except there is one small difference. A women who is 100 lbs overweight has a much bigger pool of men who will accept her than a 5'4" man has women who will accept him. Additionally, don't you find it strange that things that men tend to find unattractive (such as excessive weight) are given vague euphemisms like "average", "athletic", and BBW, while the things that women tend to find unattractive (such as short stature) are required to be given with exact specificity (such as 5'10" instead of "average height")?

Just some...well...food for thought.



You're dreaming up a terrible world there Doeman in your pursuit for an idealized one for short men.


Not so. The world is already pretty terrible if women are automatically rejecting you at every turn because you happen to be 5'4". It makes no sense for you to do any height shallow women any favors. Your only goal should be increasing the number of potential dates.

There is no "special person" out there waiting on anyone. This is all a numbers game. It's a crap shoot. If we increase the number of people we see, we increase the chance of finding compatibility.

 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 175
view profile
History
Short Men
Posted: 1/4/2009 4:23:24 PM

I'm short 5' 1/2" - must guys are taller than me. I've tried meeting men on POF who would be considered short. I tend to lose interest because they lack self-confidence and I become annoyed. If I were to meet someone who is considered to be short and he possessed self-confidence (no arrogance), his height would be a non-issue.
I don't understand this. We aren't living in Iraq. Tall guys aren't allowed to beat up small guys, and if they try, then they get arrested. So why would smaller guys have any reason to lack confidence at all?
 suibhne
Joined: 9/2/2007
Msg: 182
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History
Short Men
Posted: 6/16/2009 8:32:31 PM
Its a security and insecurity issue that females have.
 chuckyB51
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 184
view profile
History
Short Men
Posted: 6/17/2009 7:17:39 PM
I have said for a long time that weight should have to be entered as a specific number on here or there should be 10 Ibs ranges to choose. There is a double standard her. My favorite term is "Small BBW".
 Whatisnewwithyou
Joined: 1/25/2011
Msg: 185
Short Men
Posted: 4/22/2011 7:03:08 AM
As a short guy,while being at the pub, I once turned down an advance from a short woman(she was 5 '2) using the excuse that she was too short for me, and I only date women who are 5'6 or taller because I need to feel secure and protected. The puzzled look she gave me was absolutely hilarious. She and I are now good friends. I think if one likes your sense of humor, your height will not matter.
 Fifi47
Joined: 8/19/2004
Msg: 186
Short Men
Posted: 4/23/2011 4:08:01 AM
Some women like short men, some do not. Just suck it up like the rest of the world does and find someone wh0 likes you for you. I never knew there were so many men who detest short plump women until I encountered them on POF. Short plump women seem to have it a lot worse than short plump men. I concentrate on the few who like women who are short and plump and the ones who like women of all shapes and sizes. The post about posting weight is fair makes about as much sense as men posting the sizes of certain body parts. Many men are obsessed by a woman's weight and they say women are overly concerned about the size of a man's certain body part, so fair is fair?
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