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 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 61
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Ever spend a night in Detroit?Page 3 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
babble.............

"it was a dark and . . 40% of the street lights in Detroit don't work, fire hydrants don't work . . but y'all rally round
those conservatives and cut those taxes, who needs infrastructure!"

I guess that you have no clue as to what side of the political spectrum has been running Detroit now for over 40 years. Amazing, your side is in large and in charge, yet you blame the other side for just how bad things are................. No surprise there.

You really need to find out IF taxes had been cut in the past 40 years, or if benefits have been raised................ Get some some facts before you blather on about things you have no clue about. I had cousins who lived in Detroit city limits and they paid MORE in property taxes on a house that cost them under $80K, then on a house that cost my ex and I over $200K. And lack of taxes are the problem?

Get a clue.

Paul K
 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 62
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/22/2013 4:10:06 PM

Get a clue.


well Colonel Mustard, i'm not sure what you mean by "your side" I live in a country run by a conservative govt.,
and I do check my facts, y'all need some corporate tax payin'. .

wingswingswings, we'll sell you back the pistons and lions, k?
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 63
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History
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/22/2013 4:24:04 PM
babble.........

You wrote:
"i'm not sure what you mean by "your side"........
The "your side" I was referring to certainly was NOT the side of those who want to cut taxes......... Not the conservatives. Detroit has been run by liberals who never saw a tax they didn't love, or implement................ It wasn't conservatives who have been running Detroit for the past 40 some odd years.

Yet without knowing those facts, you wrote:
"and I do check my facts"

Well, it doesn't seem to be the case in this situation. As far as corporate taxes go in the USA, just so there is no question about what I am referring to, we pay some of the highest taxes in the world. A lot of American companies are being purchased by companies in other countries because when they factor in how much less they will have to pay in their country, their profit margins are going to be much higher. You may want to check your facts on that too.

Paul K
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 64
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/22/2013 4:36:02 PM
and I am not including Dearborn as one of the nice suburbs.

I can't imagine why not... It's part of Metro Detroit and appears to be doing well... Why in heaven's name would you single out any of the "non-decayed" suburbs that are making out and declare it to NOT be "one of the nice suburbs"...? What objective standard could you possibly be applying to come to this determination...?
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 65
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History
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/22/2013 4:45:51 PM
mungo........

"I can't imagine why not... It's part of Metro Detroit and appears to be doing well..."

You were referring to Dearborn. I have an Uncle who lives in Dearborn, one of the last holdouts of my family that lives in that area, and the two blocks next to him and a few blocks two streets down from their corner house, are all EMPTY. Thank God they can afford to travel, and own very nice condos in both California and Florida. They spend very little time there.

You said that Dearborn "appears to be doing well"............ That tells me that you have never been there, and are going by appearances only......... no surprise there. There are some pockets in Dearborn that are fully occupied, just as there are in Detroit proper, but not enough for Dearborn to be "doing well".

The standard that I use to single out Dearborn is that I have been there not that long ago, and I wouldn't want to spend a night there.

Paul K

PS

An astute poster posted this on another thread................. It really sounds like someone is tryhing to make humor out of the situation, but the sad part is that it is all true.


Here's the short list of Detroit's achievements -
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/07/25_facts_about_the_fall_of_detroit

1) At this point, the city of Detroit owes money to more than 100,000 creditors.

2) Detroit is facing $20 billion in debt and unfunded liabilities. That breaks down to more than $25,000 per resident.

3) Back in 1960, the city of Detroit actually had the highest per-capita income in the entire nation.

4) In 1950, there were about 296,000 manufacturing jobs in Detroit. Today, there are less than 27,000.

5) Between December 2000 and December 2010, 48 percent of the manufacturing jobs in the state of Michigan were lost.

6) There are lots of houses available for sale in Detroit right now for $500 or less.

7) At this point, there are approximately 78,000 abandoned homes in the city.

8) About one-third of Detroit's 140 square miles is either vacant or derelict.

9) An astounding 47 percent of the residents of the city of Detroit are functionally illiterate.

10) Less than half of the residents of Detroit over the age of 16 are working at this point.

11) If you can believe it, 60 percent of all children in the city of Detroit are living in poverty.

12) Detroit was once the fourth-largest city in the United States, but over the past 60 years the population of Detroit has fallen by 63 percent.

13) The city of Detroit is now very heavily dependent on the tax revenue it pulls in from the casinos in the city. Right now, Detroit is bringing in about 11 million dollars a month in tax revenue from the casinos.

14) There are 70 "Superfund" hazardous waste sites in Detroit.

15) 40 percent of the street lights do not work.

16) Only about a third of the ambulances are running.

17) Some ambulances in the city of Detroit have been used for so long that they have more than 250,000 miles on them.

18) Two-thirds of the parks in the city of Detroit have been permanently closed down since 2008.

19) The size of the police force in Detroit has been cut by about 40 percent over the past decade.

20) When you call the police in Detroit, it takes them an average of 58 minutes to respond."
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 66
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/22/2013 5:20:43 PM
The standard that I use to single out Dearborn is that I have been there not that long ago, and I wouldn't want to spend a night there.

yes, I don't doubt that... I'm fairly sure I know why, but I do notice you won't really explain it... Instead, you go with the usual meaningless right wing-nut nonsense like "because I'm afraid of it"...

one of the last holdouts of my family that lives in that area, and the two blocks next to him and a few blocks two streets down from their corner house, are all EMPTY.

Ah, I see... they live NEAR Dearborn, but not IN Dearborn... gotcha, that is some "compelling" evidence...

I don't doubt there are 'empty homes' in Dearborn... Probably a number of shuttered businesses too... I hate to burst your insular bubble, but THAT has been happening ALL OVER the US, from Whitebreadville to Chocolate City... nothing new there... "Doing well" has become a VERY relative term in the US since the Reagan/Bush II-inspired meltdown...

However, I strongly suspect that a great many of the "empty homes" (those NOT related to massive lay-offs of auto workers) became empty for one particular reason...
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 67
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/22/2013 5:23:02 PM
Paul, You make Detroit sound really messed up, but it just goes to show what good civic leadership can provide when they really put their minds to it.
Less than 50% have jobs? I wonder, could that number be 47? Doesn't it seem that "47%" is going to be just as important as pi, and the golden ratio, and 100 degrees C, and 98.6 F ?
That exact number keeps appearing !
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 68
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History
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/22/2013 6:14:41 PM
mungo...........

I wrote:
"one of the last holdouts of my family that lives in that area, and the two blocks next to him and a few blocks two streets down from their corner house, are all EMPTY. "

To which you responded:
"Ah, I see... they live NEAR Dearborn, but not IN Dearborn... gotcha, that is some "compelling" evidence..."

No, I wrote:
"You were referring to Dearborn. I have an Uncle who lives in Dearborn, one of the last holdouts of my family that lives in that area, and the two blocks next to him and a few blocks two streets down from their corner house, are all EMPTY."

"I have an Uncle who lives in Dearborn,"........ Clear enough?

Geez, your comprehension must be going............. IF you would have read the whole post, you would have seen that the "in that area" that I am referring to IS Dearborn. He bought his house there in the early '60's, and for many many years it was nice, but then about 35 or so years ago, it started a downhill trend. So, "Ah ---- gotcha"...... nice try, but not so. The empty blocks I was referring to are in Dearborn. As far as shuttered business' go, there are hundreds, not just a few. To say that there are "a number of shuttered business" is a gross understatement.

Then you wrote:
"Instead, you go with the usual meaningless right wing-nut nonsense like "because I'm afraid of it"..."

Well, golly gee, let me explain it to you as clearly as I can. I have two uncles, one aunt, and probably at least 25 other various first and second cousins who live in the decent areas outlying Detroit that I stay with when we visit them............ You really are a one note samba, always going with the "right is evil" note.

The biggest reason people moved out of places like Dearborn is because of how high the property taxes were, and what you got for those taxes. I have a cousin who bought a tiny house, two bed, one bath one car detatched garage for less than half of what we paid for a house in SoCal, yet their property taxes were about 4 times what we paid. And what did the get for that amount? Terrible roads, crime in the neighborhood.....

Like I said before, there are some small pockets where the houses are still taken care of, but not many places or many houses........ Detroit has a tendency to have certain ethnicities to "pool together" in certain areas. Guess what ethnicity mostly lives in Hamtramck? Yep, Poles. Dearborn now has a very large muslim enclave, and some of their area is realtively nicely taken care of. However, a large part of it is a mess.

You seem to be itching to unload another "AH HA, GOTCHA", but you are going to have to be more specific. Just what are you looking for?

Paul K
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 69
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/22/2013 7:23:57 PM
So, "Ah ---- gotcha"...... nice try, but not so.
....
You seem to be itching to unload another "AH HA, GOTCHA"

ROFLMAO

Gee... paranoid much...?

As far as shuttered business' go, there are hundreds, not just a few.

I never said anything about "just a few"... That is your delusion... I said "a number of..."... How THAT translates in YOUR mind to "just a few" is a mystery, more likely a result of delusion than any fact of reality...

Well, golly gee, let me explain it to you as clearly as I can. I have two uncles, one aunt, and probably at least 25 other various first and second cousins who live in the decent areas outlying Detroit that I stay with when we visit them

Well, that certainly does explain it... Not the reason that you are afraid, just the fact that you are... I appreciate the confirmation... I really am surprised at how often all the "macho" and "tough" right wing-nuts seem to so readily and easily devolve into cringing, fearful little boys...

The biggest reason people moved out of places like Dearborn is because of how high the property taxes were, and what you got for those taxes.

Well, that certainly does "explain" Detroit's 50 yr experiment in "white flight"... Well, except for the fact that the "white flight" began while Detroit STILL had the highest per capita income and insignificant tax rates... But, shhhh... we aren't supposed to mention that... Step a little closer, I have to whisper this so no-one hears... Detroit started it's downhill dive when the "white flight" started... but keep that to yourself, okay...
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 70
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/22/2013 11:58:46 PM
"Well, that certainly does "explain" Detroit's 50 yr experiment in "white flight""

So says the "American", who lives in Canada. Obviously an expert on the subject.
But hey, it's great that such a noted visionary has commented on the failure of "diversity." The whites move out, and the "others" can't replace them, so the city chokes and dies.
This little lesson is typically not taught to modern politicians: There are 2 types of voting, the kind you do in a voting booth, and the kind you do with your feet. When people are dis-satisfied with conditions, they leave.
 enigoM
Joined: 2/18/2013
Msg: 71
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 9:41:31 AM

Well, that certainly does "explain" Detroit's 50 yr experiment in "white flight"... Well, except for the fact that the "white flight" began while Detroit STILL had the highest per capita income and insignificant tax rates... But, shhhh... we aren't supposed to mention that... Step a little closer, I have to whisper this so no-one hears... Detroit started it's downhill dive when the "white flight" started...
Another way to look at it is that Detroit started its downhill dive after Race riots in 67 and the election of the first Black mayor in 74, followed by many years of Liberal policies which favored the poor and minorities.Race based policies also played a part in the demise of Detroit.But keep that to yourself, reality does not favor the Liberal narrative..

"Well, that certainly does "explain" Detroit's 50 yr experiment in "Black Democrat Politics"
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 72
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 9:49:40 AM

Another way to look at it is that Detroit started its downhill dive after Race riots in 67 and the election of the first Black mayor in 74

You COULD look at it that way... but you would be wrong, which isn't unusual... The "white flight" began in the '50s when blacks first started trying to live in whitebread neighbourhoods...

Not all at once to be sure... and not suddenly... it was after all the assaults, murders, and attempts to burn down/bomb black homes failed to stop it... but don't let that get in the way of a false narrative...
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 73
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History
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 11:33:42 AM
As usual, when some can't refute with facts, they resort to name calling...........
"I really am surprised at how often all the "macho" and "tough" right wing-nuts seem to so readily and easily devolve into cringing, fearful little boys..."

The smartest thing that a person should do is to avoid trouble, whenever possible. Now, I am certain that you would have no problem taking a tent and pitching it on one of the abanded lots in the middle of Detroit........ after all, you are not like the right wing-nuts who have devolved into cringing fearful little boys. Hey, after a period of time, you would even get squatters rights.

Just a question....... have you ever even been to Detroit, or are you getting all of your "information" from the internet........ knowing full well, that only truths can be posted on the internet? There seems to be no end to your condescending attitude towards the "white race"..............
"The "white flight" began in the '50s when blacks first started trying to live in whitebread neighbourhoods..."

"whitebread neighborhoods".......... that is a good one, I will have to remember that when I am trying to impress folks with just how open minded I am.

Is that in the same vein as "cracker", "whitey", and other words you use to try to show that you are "down for the struggle"? You really need to stay in whatever neighborhood you live in and try not to make too many disparaging remarks about people in other areas that you really have no clue about.

Paul K
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 74
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 12:40:03 PM
have you ever even been to Detroit, or are you getting all of your "information" from the internet

Well... I haven't spent an "overnight" in Detroit in some years... However, I frequently did when I was younger and into 'hobo tourism' (that's riding the buses/rails around the country, sleeping where ever you can) and Detroit was a major transportation hub for that... I was often wandering the streets in the middle of the night waiting for the next outbound bus/train... I was "victimized" often during that time and the worst, the absolute worst, was when some prostitute asked me if I "wanted some company"... I felt SO "victimized" and "unsafe" after that...

But, I realize that isn't 'today'... No, unfortunately, that was back in the '80's to '90s mainly, when Detroit's crime rate was considerably higher than now... You know, in the days of the "Murder City" word-play pun, when the murder rate was 50% higher than it is now and the Detroit core had one of the highest crime rates in the nation...

I know 'today' is different... The murder rate is a fraction of what it was back in the '80s/'90s and the Detroit core now has one of the lowest crime rates in the state and country... and I really SHOULD be acting like a cringing, fearful little boy just like the right wing-nuts, but I just can't seem to find the energy for that... Must be an age thing...

Is that in the same vein as "cracker", "whitey", and other words you use to try to show that you are "down for the struggle"?

No, that's meant more in the vein of "redneck" or "slack-jawed yokel" and other words I use to show my impatience with bigoted idiocy...
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 75
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History
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 1:05:27 PM
mungo.........

Yeah, you really are brave................ but then there is that little thing of calling names when you have nothing else substantive to say:
"like a cringing, fearful little boy just like the right wing-nuts,",

and this:
"No, that's meant more in the vein of "redneck" or "slack-jawed yokel" and other words I use to show my impatience with bigoted idiocy... "

Thank you for the patience you show to at least read what we rednecks and slack-jawed yokels write....... I really do appreciate the fact that YOU find the time to read my posts! For you to pretend like there isn't a crime problem in Detroit is laughable, but then I guess information gleaned from the internet must be true.

Paul K
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 76
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 1:27:38 PM
For you to pretend like there isn't a crime problem in Detroit is laughable

I was just wondering... Is English your first language...? Because if it isn't, you have failed the "assimilation test" all you right wing-nuts are always on about...

How in the name of education and literacy you ever managed to get...

For you to pretend like there isn't a crime problem in Detroit is laughable

from...

"But, I realize that isn't 'today'... No, unfortunately, that was back in the '80's to '90s mainly, when Detroit's crime rate was considerably higher than now... You know, in the days of the "Murder City" word-play pun, when the murder rate was 50% higher than it is now and the Detroit core had one of the highest crime rates in the nation...

I know 'today' is different... The murder rate is a fraction of what it was back in the '80s/'90s and the Detroit core now has one of the lowest crime rates in the state and country... and I really SHOULD be acting like a cringing, fearful little boy just like the right wing-nuts, but I just can't seem to find the energy for that... Must be an age thing..."

... is even MORE mind-boggling and mysterious than "a number of..." becoming "just a few..."

Seriously, they do have literacy courses for adults... You are aware of that, right...?

*shakes head as it becomes clear that the failure of American education dates back as far as the '50s and '60s in some locales*
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 77
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History
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 1:34:41 PM

when Detroit's crime rate was considerably higher than now... You know, in the days of the "Murder City" word-play pun, when the murder rate was 50% higher than it is now


http://www.freep.com/article/20121228/NEWS01/312280175/Detroit-s-homicide-rate-nears-highest-in-2-decades

Not according to this article from the Detroit Free Press published in December, 2012. There is a graph on left side about half way down the page showing homicide rates per 100,000 going back to the 60's. Are you referring to a period previous to that?

With Detroit filing bankruptcy, it would ludicrous to state that emergency services haven't been affected. But the OP was obviously an extreme exaggeration.

Interesting article about the population decline published by Time over 2 years ago:
http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/24/vanishing-city-the-story-behind-detroit%E2%80%99s-shocking-population-decline/

But there is another story behind these numbers. Some of Detroit’s population loss in the last decade can be attributed to the exodus of middle-class blacks unwilling to subject their children to schools that too often lack the audacity to expect them to succeed, and crime in the relatively affluent neighborhoods that remain. It’s not just Detroit. A similar black middle-class exodus is occurring in in Chicago, Washington, Atlanta and New Orleans



it’s unclear what will happen to Detroit’s nearly 140 square miles — enough to fit Boston, San Francisco and Manhattan with room to spare — that now lie largely vacant.



Clearly, I don't know what you mean by "Detroit core" based on everything I've read lately. Happen to have a cite to support this statement?

Detroit core now has one of the lowest crime rates in the state and country
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 78
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History
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 1:53:55 PM
The following statement can very easily be true:
"Detroit core now has one of the lowest crime rates in the state and country"

When this happens:
"it’s unclear what will happen to Detroit’s nearly 140 square miles — enough to fit Boston, San Francisco and Manhattan with room to spare — that now lie largely vacant.",

For there to be no crime, or very low crime per square mile is only logical; after all, nobody is there to rob, steal from, rape, assault or murder............. Perhaps crimes against property are high, but crimes against citizens would be very low for the size of the area, considering there are almost no citizens to rob, steal from, rape, assault, or murder.

I did read a while back, that those that control what happens to the land that is now vacant had considered to remove everything, roads and all, and have that area be farmed......... I guess there is not enough farm land outside of the Detroit area. But, then, those that even considered the farm idea are the same ones who drove it to the state it is now.

Certainly, it couldn't be the fact that there is almost no auto industry left, because obama saved the auto industry in Detroit a while back, didn't he? Or, did he?

Paul K
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 79
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 2:21:59 PM

Are you referring to a period previous to that?

I was referring to the mid '80s to early '90s... Yes, I mistyped 'rate' instead of 'numbers'... As in 'the murder numbers were...' and, as you can see from your own graph the peak murder numbers for that period are almost twice today's numbers (686 in '87 to ~375 for '12)... I will correct the percent I used though to be fair as the 'rate' was only ~20% higher (63.5 in '87 to 53 in '12) though the numbers were almost double...

Either way, it doesn't change the validity of my contention that Detroit was MUCH MORE dangerous in the '80s/'90s than it is today... By virtually any measure...

Clearly, I don't know what you mean by "Detroit core" based on everything I've read lately. Happen to have a cite to support this statement?

Yes, I do...

The crime facing Detroit is not insurmountable and it's untruthful to say that it's citywide.
....
There is a fact that is missing in this crime talk. Beyond this, the crime rate in downtown Detroit is 37-percent less than the national average.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-a-brown/detroit-police-restructuring_b_1533759.html
 trinity818
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 80
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History
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 4:16:43 PM
^^^
Thank you for the clarification.

In all fairness, the referenced source is written by Gary Brown who is President pro tem of the Detroit City Council from May, 2012. I don't mean to imply that the information isn't accurate, but to state that the source is a blog is simply factual. There is a very interesting link on the section you are quoting...

the crime rate in downtown Detroit is 37-percent less than the national average


It links to a DPD Diagnostic document showing a lot of charts about police efficiency & response as compared to other cities. I didn't see any supporting reference for his statement regarding the crime rate in downtown.

Regardless, it was an interesting link contained within the blog.
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 81
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History
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 5:17:04 PM
mungo............

You posted:
"The crime facing Detroit is not insurmountable and it's untruthful to say that it's citywide.
....
There is a fact that is missing in this crime talk. Beyond this, the crime rate in downtown Detroit is 37-percent less than the national average.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-a-brown/detroit-police-restructuring_b_1533759.html"

Lets ignore the fact that this is in the huffington post, and go to where it says that the crime rate in DOWNTOWN Detroit is 37% less than the national average........................

So? THAT in and of itself proves nothing, except that Detroit is like two completely different worlds. Downtown Detroit is held up by lots and lots of money being poured in, and out of necessity, it is policed properly..... Go half a mile away from the Detroit River..... and you won't even believe that you are on the same planet. There are blocks and blocks of burned out, boarded up, and abandoned store fronts. MILES AND MILES. Yes, you are perfectly safe there....... because you would be the ONLY person there.

Even Carls Chop House, which was THE place for a steak in Detroit, closed a few years back. That place had overstuffed red leather booths, a full basement wine cellar, ladies walking around with trays of cigarettes and cigars........ Very old school, and the most incredible steaks. BUT, they were on Grand River, never moved, and closed due to less and less people walking in. Some people say that the reason they closed was due to the proximity of the Motor City Casino......... I had dinner there........ not even close to the atmosphere and food of Carls. Before Carls closed, they had to put two layers of fencing and barbed wire on top, with a gate operated by the valets, in order to make people comfortable enough to park their car there.

The only reason the crime rate is down in DOWNTOWN Detroit is because they have enough police presence to keep it that way. Take a little drive down Grand River, away from downtown, and you too will laugh at the 37-percent less crime stat. The only reason you keep saying that Detroit is not as dangerous today is because you haven't been there. Take it from someone who has. I guess that makes me a right wing coward, but explain to me why iconic places like Carls are no longer around?

Get a clue....... as we used to say when I played sports......... Pump up, then pop off. So, when you take into consideration the current population of Detroit, the fact that most of it is not even habitated, and the part that is habitated is policed properly, yeah, crime may be down.......... but only in DOWNTOWN.

Paul K
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 82
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 5:42:38 PM

So? THAT in and of itself proves nothing...

Actually, it proves EXACTLY what I was saying... The crime stats are BETTER now than they were in the '80s and '90s... In short, Detroit is SAFER from a crime stats point-of-view than it was 20-30 years ago...

If it was safe enough for me to wander around in the middle of the night and early morning and only be "victimized" by prostitutes trying to rustle up some business, anyone carrying on about how "scary" Detroit is TODAY is behaving like a cringing, fearful little boy...

Get a clue....... as we used to say when I played sports......... Pump up, then pop off. So, when you take into consideration the current population of Detroit, the fact that most of it is not even habitated, and the part that is habitated is policed properly, yeah, crime may be down.......... but only in DOWNTOWN.

Umm... No... Crime is down OVERALL, not just in downtown (though that is where the least crime is), compared to what Detroit used to be... In short, crime is lower now than it was 20 yrs ago... The numbers and the history PROVE it...

You can jump through all the hoops you like to avoid admitting that so many right wing-nuts act like cringing, fearful little boys when the discussion starts to relate to "certain people"... It isn't going to change the reality...
 Paul K
Joined: 3/10/2006
Msg: 83
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History
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 6:38:09 PM
Mungo.........

"You can jump through all the hoops you like to avoid admitting that so many right wing-nuts act like cringing, fearful little boys when the discussion starts to relate to "certain people"... It isn't going to change the reality... "

When is the last time you were actually IN Detroit? I have no idea what part of Detroit that you wandered through, and frankly I would be surprised if you did either, so for you to point to statistics and pop your suspenders and say........ "See, it ain't so", is way off the mark.

You talk about others being "cringing ferful little boys", yet YOU are the one who is not using the term for "certain people"; you just keep alluding to it. Why is that? Are you afraid to say that it is the blacks that mostly live in the areas of Detroit that are the worst? Crime being lower in Detroit is due to two reasons...........

First, they police the rebuilt downtown area, their "new" Greektown, new chinatown, etc., because they know that if they don't that too, will go the way of the rest of the city.

Secondly, the population of Detroit is plummeted. From the salad days in the 1980's or so, to now, the population has dropped by about 45%......... From 1990 to 2010, the population dropped by about 35%..... yet crime only dropped by 20%. Are you really sure that you want to actually look at more numbers? By all means, lets look some more.............

Almost 185,000 blacks and 41,000 whites left the city according to the most recent census....... meanwhile, what did the current mayor do? He ordered a recount, as that just couldn't be happening, seeing just how much Detroit was giving out in social services...............

For anyone to hold the position that you do is beyond silly, and showing you actual FACTS, in light of your "hobo tour" of Detroit should at least point out one thing to you............... things change, and not always for the better, and the FACT that Detroit has been mis-managed by the far left for way too many years is now very plain to see.

Like I asked earlier, when is the last time that you were actually IN Detroit? The largest confluence of family for me is in Detroit, so I get there, whether I want to or not......... you know, weddings, funerals, etc........... They do have some very nice golf courses in the outlying areas......... HEY, maybe they should raze everything in the area where nobody is living and put up a golf course!!!

Paul K
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 84
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 7:12:12 PM

Actually, it proves EXACTLY what I was saying... The crime stats are BETTER now than they were in the '80s and '90s... In short, Detroit is SAFER from a crime stats point-of-view than it was 20-30 years ago...

If it was safe enough for me to wander around in the middle of the night and early morning and only be "victimized" by prostitutes trying to rustle up some business, anyone carrying on about how "scary" Detroit is TODAY is behaving like a cringing, fearful little boy...


Ok,25-30 years ago you could do that.You're older now,remember?Predators will also recognize you as being older.Don't be stupid enough to try this again.Parts of Toronto I wouldn't try this either.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 85
Ever spend a night in Detroit?
Posted: 7/23/2013 7:18:52 PM

I have no idea what part of Detroit that you wandered through, and frankly I would be surprised if you did either

Well, given that I have ALREADY said "what part", your having "no idea" and your "surprise" speak volumes... You would likely be "surprised" by my adventures in places like NYC and DC as well... However, your "surprise" says more about you than it does me... What can I say, I'm an American, I don't act like a cringing, fearful little boy for anybody...

For anyone to hold the position that you do is beyond silly

Do you mean it is "silly" to believe that lower crime rates mean less crime...? Really...? Do you even know what the word "rate" refers to and how it is measured...?

Do you mean it is "silly" to believe that "less crime" means "safer than more crime"...? Really...?

And acting like a cringing, fearful little boy would be less "silly"...?

You can ACTUALLY suggest those things with a straight face and mean it...?!? I think we have found a poster boy for our "education in crisis" campaign...

things change, and not always for the better

Well, most people I know usually believe that "less crime" and "lower crime rates" is "better" than "more crime" and "higher crime rates"... But they actually know what words like "more", "less" and "better" mean... And they typically don't "jump" when they see their own shadows...
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