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 molly__blooming
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 264
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I wish men would understand this...Page 5 of 20    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20)
lux, until i read a number of the posts by men on this thread, i thought men did understand this problem... i have found many of the responses here truly surprising.

and no, no one is saying "oh i'm so skittish about meeting men this way." no, just talking about the realities of being a woman.

i've met a buncha guys online and wasn't afraid of any one of them. they were all nice, and as far as i could see, completely non-violent.

but that doesn't change the facts of life for women... women are at risk of harm by men and if they are smart they will bear this in mind as they go thru their lives, not only while meeting men this way, but in a general sense.

because of course, when they don't bear this in mind and they get raped or molested, then all fingers are pointed at them and the "blame the victim" questions are asked: "well, why did you go inside his apartment with him if you weren't certain about the kind of person he was?" "you should have been more careful," "why are you not more responsible?" and on and on and on and on......................................................
 molly__blooming
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 267
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I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 6/5/2006 8:35:09 AM
hi eastside. yea, i guess i should have said that that's not what i'm saying.

the fact of the matter is, tho, that all of us have to pay for the sins of others -- isn't that just the reality of life? you guys say that we gals are all kinds of bad things, and when you interact with me, you do that as if i am all those bad things even when i am not -- and so, i am paying also for the bad behavior of some women... that's just the way it is.

don't you think it's better to be aware of the things that concern women and try to build that awareness into how you interact with women? in the same way, women should do this -- we should also be aware of the things that concern or freak out guys and bear those things in mind in the context of our interactions with guys. to me, this is simply about respect and congeniality, and, it is about having a true to desire to relate to someone in an intimate, deep way (aka, it's about putting our money where our mouth is when our mouths say things like "i really DO want a long term relationship," if that is so, then we should do the things we need to do in order to make that happen, right?).

personally if i literally felt afraid of you or any guy, i'd certainly not be planning to meet him! that's insane. but unless i have a reason to be afraid, i am not going to be afraid. if a guy freaks me out, says weird things, addresses me in ways the previous poster mentioned ("hey sexy" "hello hottie" when i've never said two words to the guy!), then i just won't be in contact with him and i will move on.

and no, i personally don't treat every human with a penis as tho he is to be feared, that's crazy. but that also isn't what i thought people (like me) on this thread were saying...

i like men, and even love a bunch of them, can't live without 'em. i think men smell amazing and i love all their hairy wonder and i dunno, yes, i love men. can't help it. :-) i also know that there are men (a small minority of men) women need to fear because they are violent and for whatever reason do not know how to have happy sexual relations with women and instead have the need to rape them.

why this is, i don't know -- what i do know is that it is a reality, one that women face and think about during their lives.

it's not about you, eastside and you shouldn't take it personally.
 sparticuss
Joined: 5/9/2006
Msg: 268
I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 6/5/2006 6:56:40 PM
This post is so insane that I'm going to have to go through the entire post point by point.
If I repeat a few points that have already been posted then those who have posted them will have to bear with me.
=============================================

I've seen a ton of threads on here about men whining that women aren't attracted to nice guys, or guys who come on to them with honesty and tell them they're beautiful or sweet or whatever, and there's something I have to say about this.
======================================
There's also something that I have to say about this. Death row inmates in jails get massive fan mail for women. The only people who get more fan mail are rock, TV , sports , or movie stars.
So the whine is valid. Women ARENT attracted to nice guys
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Men simply don't understand the perspective women bring to the whole dating process. How often have you heard about a man being raped/beaten/throat slashed/ left for dead in some park or back alley? How about never?
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How about approximatly seven times as often as the women. (Police data)
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What men don't get is that when they approach a perfect stranger looking for conversation or a date or whatever it is they're looking for, the women are busy watching for signs that he's a sick lunatic. That's the way we have to do it.
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Tripe! Your rape phobia is worse that the worst homophoba I've ever seen in a male. You are blindly following the one in four propaganda. Ask your frriends how many of them have EVER been attacked by a stranger. In your own words "How about none"
The last time I added up the propaganda figures quoted by a rape phobic man hater she was quoting 20 Australian women a day were raped. I added that up over the 80 year lifes span of the average Australian woman. It worked out that, over a lifetime every last woman in the country would be raped once and half of them would be rape twice.
Yea sure! Get real!
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If you come on too nice, or with too many compliments, we get creeped out.
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Actually rape phobics like you get creped out by anything but a rapist.
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It's not that you seem too needy, or that we figure you're a player, or that you've got a wife and three kids at home (although all these thoughts will definitely cross our minds); it's that we're worried we'll end up a statistic with a case file.
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We like the men who seem more confident, less interested in getting to know us immediately and setting up house somewhere, because that's the only way we can try to weed out the pyschos from the normal people.
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Oh please! Spare me! These men ARRENT interested in you at all and your fragile ego feels rejected and demands that you chase them.
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I guess all I'm trying to say is 'give us a break.' We're in more danger out there every night than your average man can possibly comprehend.
=================================

I'll tell you what a date rapist is really like. ( Something that the average woman has NO HOPE of comprehending because rape is a violent act, not a sexual one, and women are both protected and banned from all violent behaviour since that last fight over a bag of swets aged four.)

The date rapist IS the man who seems more confident, less interested in getting to know you immediately. You will chase him into safe rape zone that you would never enter if with a man who was "creeping you out"

Here's how a date rapist really operates.

When the sweeet but desperate guy is trying to compliment you and you are trying to fob him off the date rapist moves in between you and him.
He completely ignores you and threatens to split the nice guys face open if he doens't "leave the lady alone".
This calling you a lady, wakes up your ego and that ego demands that you pay attention to him.

And not pay attention to the two buddies he's got for back up if the nice guy is also into a little kung fu. This is one of the big danger signs. Rapists are not only violent. They are also cowards. This is why they have the buddies for back up.

Once theyv'e gotten rid of the nice guy they don't pester you. They just walk away. This is usually enough to send your bruised ego chasing them.
Even if it isn't they have other methods. The usual one is for them to wait by the door and, as you go out, they mention that they saw the "creep" hanging around outside and are you safe for a lift home?

The last thing they are going to do is try to "pick you up".

Once you're in their car theyve pretty much got you.
 sparticuss
Joined: 5/9/2006
Msg: 269
I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 6/5/2006 11:47:28 PM
I agree with the fact that women need to be more careful in their choices of men. If a guy is too nice at first then he could be hiding something such as his faults or short-comings. If a guy is willing buying you roses within the first week he met you off a dating site and buying you things and taking you and your kids out after you have just met him then something is wrong with that guy.
=================================
Horse hockey!

Who said anything about "buying" the damn roses. I have thirty climbing rose BUSHES round my fences. I use them to keep out the feral cats. Forget about a dozen roses. During a good spring I can easily haul thirty dozen off the bushes without really reducing them back to pure buds.

Taking out the kids depends on what the kids like to get up to . I got into roller blading twenty years ago and just never grew out of it. Trail bikes? Yep! Still get inot all of that stuff. My doctor says I should be into a lot more because of my blood prresure.
 sparticuss
Joined: 5/9/2006
Msg: 270
I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 6/6/2006 12:01:19 AM
I say let the women initiate the conversation. we men get alot of mixed messages. try being a man for a week and see what its like.
========================================
There have been a few very interestng articles in several current affairs mags, from women who have done this. Bound breasts and a little fake facial hair.

They have foudn it a very interesting and educational experience.
 sparticuss
Joined: 5/9/2006
Msg: 271
I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 6/6/2006 12:19:44 AM
Just for the record.
The last two funerals of friends that I've attended. Both big, middle aged men. Both surprise attacked from nowhere and beaten to death.

So don't give me any more drivel that it's only women who suffer from violence.
Your'e getting very personal now.
 molly__blooming
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 272
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I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 6/6/2006 6:51:54 AM
no lux, i am not reading what i want into the posts -- i am referring to a whole bunch of posts from earlier on in this thread (in the first several pages of responses). so bad that i had to stop visiting this thread and only came back because of something posted on another thread.

i think it's clear you have not read a lot of these postings. MANY in which men behave as though women have nothing to be afraid of and are simply paranoid and freaked out; postings which were sarcastic, totally unsympathetic to these issues and completely obnoxious.

yes, men HAVE complained about being pre-judged, and that is obviously a valid complaint, and i have said as much.

 molly__blooming
Joined: 4/6/2006
Msg: 273
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I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 6/6/2006 6:57:36 AM
yes sparticuss, men DO experience violence and are victimized by it.

i don't know who you're responding to, but, what *I* had said was that the vast majority of crimes are committed by men, not women. and i said that only because someone was trying to refute the claim made at the start of this thread with the illogical argument that women are also violent criminals. of course they are. doesn't change the issue opened up by the OP of this thread.

in any case, however, this thread isn't about the victimization of men. it's about the victimization of women by men, a real social problem women face in their lives.

as i said once before, why is it that as soon as you try to talk about women's issues, all the men start hollering and stomping their feet and saying "we're victims too!"

of course you are, so talk about it if you like, start a thread, open up a dialogue...and let women do the same.
 princy
Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 283
I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 6/13/2006 1:05:42 PM
I do agree it is a very hard game out there for the most part women are at a disadvantage. One they do not have physical strength to fight back as well. And yes there is way to many kreeps out there. On the other hand it can be very difficult for some of us to no when to back off at times because of the miss comunications that get sent out by women send out some times .Every time I here of abuse it makes my skin craw.Thak god there many more nice people out rather than the kreeps by for now
 yourstillhere
Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 292
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I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 2/21/2009 2:18:11 PM

The worst advice I see to men in these Forums is to talk to women everywhere, try to pick em up at the supermarket, the book store etc... NO NO NO!!!!
Do you know how scarey it can be for a woman alone to be accosted in the book shop/fruit and veg aisle?
Some total stranger coming up to you, talking some nonsense about cabbages, with a great big smile plastered on his face?
uhoh,.. nutter alert!!


None of that will matter to you if you find him attractive.
 barbee1970
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 293
I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 2/21/2009 3:04:16 PM
I agree with OP. Being over 30, we learn to look for the red flags.

I actually have alot of respect for the guy I have known for over 3 yrs who is a friend, yet never wanted sex. Nowadays, I think I am more into building friendships.

I get creepy old dudes at the Walmart who do not know me from Adam. Could I be a Lorena Bobbitt? You never know. But I get creeped out when they start talking about love when they first meet me.

In my Condo complex we have mostly Polish immigrants. I don't know their culture when meeting people. The one old guy gave me a peck on each cheek, then wanted to kiss my lips. I did not like that so I pulled away really fast. My woman's intuition was right. His wife left him and he wanted me to make weekly visits. Get way from me!

He was not nice to her. She could not even go outside without him. She saw us other women carrying on, going to work, totally free and she left him!
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 294
I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 2/21/2009 3:05:04 PM

Do you know how scarey it can be for a woman alone to be accosted in the book shop/fruit and veg aisle?
Some total stranger coming up to you, talking some nonsense about cabbages, with a great big smile plastered on his face?


So, if he doesn't talk to you, he's less frightening? If you're that timid, why are you online looking for a date?
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 295
I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 2/21/2009 3:12:51 PM
Seriously, just try to THINK,.. and put yourself in that position.


I've BEEN in that position. When I lived in Houston and went running, gay men would pull up along side and hit up on me. I just politely declined and kept running. It wasn't a big deal (and I'm not gay.) They were a lot more straight forward than asking for a phone number. You aren't all that - get over it. I also had a woman grab my ass when I was waiting tables. It wasn't a big deal.

 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 296
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I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 2/21/2009 3:51:44 PM
Interestingly, the OP talked about how women are afraid of talking to men because of the possibility of being the victim of a crime, and yet men are far more likely than women (about twice as likely) to be the victim of a violent crime (Source: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/tables/vsxtab.htm) and yet that doesn't mean that men's defenses automatically go up when meeting and interacting with other men.
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 297
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I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 2/21/2009 3:54:58 PM

If a man is approaching you in that situation, you can almost bet every time he's going to push for your number etc.

And what's so very wrong with that? Why is it that men are so demonized just for expressing interest in a woman?

If you get defensive just because a guy is interested in dating you, then that is *your* problem to deal with.
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 298
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Posted: 2/21/2009 4:13:16 PM

mens defences dont go up, because in terms of size and strength, they're pretty equally matched

I'm not bulletproof.


violent SEXUAL attack is not common amongst men on men.

Just because a murder victim wasn't killed because of sex doesn't make them any less dead.
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 299
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Posted: 2/21/2009 4:15:46 PM
Seriously, why would guys do something, out of desperation eg 'hitting on an unreceptive woman in public' when they know it irritates most of us?

If it irritates you that I come up to you and say "hello, my name is John," then you're the one with the problem. Maybe you're the one who needs to learn how not to be so fearful of people.

Besides, how would I possibly know that a woman is "unreceptive" unless I approach her in the first place?
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 300
I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 2/21/2009 4:40:14 PM

Get a little empathy Abelian, youre coming off as a d*** Im afraid.

I have empathy for people who are rational. If lacking patience with irrational people makes, me a d***, I'm a d*** and I don't care if I come across as one.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 305
I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 2/21/2009 11:29:43 PM

I'm working on it and hopefully getting over my prey/hunter complex.


I hope this isn't going to cause a major setback, but the guy is there whether he introduces himself or not. If he's a psycho, it doesn't matter if he introduces himself first. If he isn't a psycho, then he isn't going to become one after introducing himelf (except perhaps with certain women who just set him off. ;)
 yourstillhere
Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 306
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I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 2/21/2009 11:31:29 PM
It still doesnt matter, none of your posts even come close to trumping over the fact that if a guy who you women think is totally HOT approaches you, then everything changes.
Your not gonna be all annoyed and tough like you claim you`ll be, you`ll melt like everyone else if the approach is right, deny it all you want but I`ll tell you what- we all got here somehow didnt we?
Someone had to approach somebody and ask for something now didnt they?
And if they didnt have the guts to bust through all the BS then where would you be?
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 311
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I wish men would understand this...
Posted: 2/22/2009 9:03:09 AM

However,.. if you come up to me, whilst im obviously busy shopping, or something and say Hi, my name is John, chit chat chat chat, id really like to give you my number, or better still, let me have yours etc etc,.. then.. yes, im irritated, because now, i have to do the embarrassing 'Im not interested/single thing.

Again I ask, why would it be such a sin for me to express interest in you?


hen its Oh come on, give a guy a chance, ... you'll like me, look, let me have your number,.. we'll go out saturday, I'll take you to dinner blah blah blah ad nauseaum... see the difference? pirate john?
one is chit chat, one is PESTERING

Apparently, you're so stuck in your black-and-white thinking that you believe that every guy on the planet who asks for your phone number is then going to follow it up by begging when you don't give it to him.


Pirate John, there are loads of venues established for single people to meet up. Internet dating, singles nights, bars, etc.. do you really need to bother some random woman in the veg aisle?

HAHAHA, and how many threads are on PoF where women complain about going to singles nights, bars, etc. and having guys hit on them *there* too?

Seeing as I'm not a mind reader, I'll just make conversation wherever and whenever the situation presents itself, and let bitter, cynical people like you continue to wallow in your self-righteousness.
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 312
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Posted: 2/22/2009 9:10:20 AM

He doesn't know who you are but he likes the way you look. Why would a rational, thinking woman have any interest in meeting such a shallow man?

So, basically, you're setting up an utterly inescapable Catch-22 where the mere action of approaching a woman makes us "shallow."

And women wonder why men can't understand them...
 kpooks
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 313
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Posted: 2/22/2009 9:56:18 AM
Interesting! I never thought of that.

I think I have the proper perspective then...nice, but with a bit of an independent edge, that I could take you or leave you.
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