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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Abortions soon to become illegal again [Locked - Topic Hijacked]      Home login  
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 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 376
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Abortions soon to become illegal againPage 16 of 63    (2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42)
You can have two separate opinions, but don't shroud them in false pretenses as caring for the fetus. Your primary impetus is persecution for the woman who behaved unpiously; that is what drives the separation of your opinions. It is sexism that stems from the madonna/whore complex.

Sorry, I am not making this a religious issue, by using terms that adhere to religion you are. My primary concern is that abortion not be abused and that the laws reflect my concerns... Your definition of my resolve is yours not mine... Sexism is not the topic as I see it but abuse of a right that may soon be taken away for lack of a better argument for not against...


And so too does the fetus' life get terminated if the woman was raped - so what is your issue when she was not raped? It is precicely because you are satified that she be punished by being forced to continue a pregnancy she does not wish to keep. You wish this in order to exact some kind of vengeance and think this may stop others from behaving in the same way. It does nothing from stopping the men who were the other half of this irresponsible equation - no - it SOLELY punishes the woman. The sole reason you wantto prevent the loss of life to one group of z/e/f's and not another is punitive - not a reverence to the sanctity of life. That is what I'm pointing out.

Again the word punishment is used. Why do you feel it necessary to punish the fetus for simply being what it is? Why is the vengeance of abortion the punishment of abortion used against the fetus who's only fault lies in being an inconvenience?


But again, you wish to grant the 'chance at life' to SOME z/e/f's - not all. As far as my justification to you (general you) over the "it's my body" argument - I don't. I simply don't need to justify my stance to anyone because it is none of their business and will enforce that. I won't make the mistake of allowing others to judge or ask me to explain myself, there is nobody I need to justify myself to. I am reconciled with my higher power and within my own conscience - the rest can, as I've said before, pound salt.
As for a middle ground, no, I am not willing. Not with my body being the battlefield. It isn't I who needs to compromise. Others can choose as they see fit. I am simply unwavering, and anyone who tries to usurp that will quickly realize how little power they have over MY decisions. My choices are not up for discussion, they are not up for debate, they are not up for vote, and they aren't up for speculation. I am sovereign. That is my choice.

I can and do simply advocate life for some cases which is my choice... If some cannot see that yes I do have a voice in this equation then they lend a blind eye toward the matter at hand. Because I would not become a criminal by having an abortion that would be against the law if the currant laws are changed as they stand now... I can live freely, walk freely and make my case freely but those who do not follow the law would be when caught punished and their freedoms would be gone according to the law... I am woman see me roar would have much less affect behind bars incarcerated...

@Marita
I can't see through the babble of what it is your trying to say...

Have a nice day
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 377
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/24/2006 7:39:03 AM
there are children a lot of children who don't even feel safe going to school,....TODAY,...
they aren't even double didget yet and they have classes with shrinks brought in by the borad of ed,...to TEACH our kids that name calling is bad and that it might have consequenses like making a kid bring a gun,...

I saw that only last week,..on some news show,....WHY??????

because WE,...the MOM's and DAD's are off living our life instead of raising our kids and they don't know,....they don't know how to behave and why and what to do or not do but most of all,....

THEY DON'T FEEL SAFE,....imagine being 7 and thinking one of your classmates could kill you today,....fever mind the worry about the spelling test,.....

and you want to increase the numbers as much as they can be increased by because??????????

our classrooms are so filled to capacity that,...our children aren't learning anything,..they are,..many of them actually graduating,....ILLITERATE!!!!

Now you might say this has nothing to do with abortion,...and the issue at hand,...

and YOU WOULD BE WRONG,....IT HAS EVERYTHING TO DO WITH WHAT all those babies you want born no matter what the circumstances,...have to deal with,..and live with,...

AND SURVIVE,....

OH SURE,...YOUR CONCERN ENDS WITH CUTTING THE UMBILLICAL CORD,.. so I am cast off by you as BABBLE,....good one,..babble,....

fine,....because ultimately time will tell,.....but I feel an implosion coming on,...
(I am woman see me roar would have much less affect behind bars incarcerated...)

SWEETY WE HAVEN'T YET BEGUN TO ROAR,....BUT,...WHEN WE DO,...

and BTW do you know how many children today are being raised by NEITHER mom or DAD,...
but grandma,...and or grandpa????????

there are women my age raising children from nieces and nephews and their own children,....
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 378
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/24/2006 7:48:19 AM
B*I*N*G*O!!!!
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 379
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/24/2006 8:03:58 AM
B*I*N*G*O,....x2

And that is why so many seek to silence us. You want to make criminals out of non-criminals. It is oppressive.

***** And it will not succeed.*****

NOR SHOULD IT,....
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 380
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/24/2006 9:11:07 AM
you know ladies maybe we should untill men figure out if they want to be responsible,....
for all aspects of THEIR participation,....

Leave them to their own devices,...and ,..well,....

just say NO

I think if push came to shove,...we could outlast any man,....

collectively it's been done before,....

how do you think we got the vote in the first place?
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 381
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/24/2006 9:36:48 AM

I understand that you want to prevent 'abuse' of abortion, so say it as such and not for some false pretense regarding the sanctity of life. You were the one who spelled out why you would allow abortion for one circumstance and not another - I pointed out WHY you came to such a conclusion. It is hypocritical to preach about the 'innocent unborn' at the same time sentencing those 'innocent unborn' to death because of the manner it was conceived. You placed a value on the fetus as a result of the role the woman placed in its conception. It it less about the life of the fetus, and more about what the person carrying the pregnancy did to put it there

It would be hypocritical of me if I went against my convictions and allowed a woman to suffer through a pregnancy caused from rape, incest, health issues or unnamed issue(s). I find it more amusing, hypocritical if you will, that someone would condemn me for allowing some abortions and not others while they would allow all abortions without reserve simply under the guise of pro choice... I can't fathom allowing ALL ABORTIONS, my choice... I do place a value on the fetus and the mother... pro choice does not... When there are two innocents involved such as in rape or incest I side with the mother because she had no choice in the equation and now can make one she can live with... In some cases I side with the fetus so that the fetus can live... Simple enough no hidden agendas...


I have NEVER said my motive for supporting abortion was to punish anyone

I and others have not used the word punishment yet it it used to describe the end result of what are supporting... If it fits your definition of an end result on perceived forced pregnancy then it also can fit mine for the fetus to be carried to term otherwise the fetus is punished with death...

True, and I've never said otherwise. We are well within the law in this issue, it is your stance that wishes to change that and make these women criminals.

Is that what this is all about? hmnmmn I dare say not... Being criminal makes criminals...


And that is why so many seek to silence us. You want to make criminals out of non-criminals. It is oppressive. And it will not succeed.

It is oppressive not to allow everyone a voice in the law of the land one way or the other... If the law changes and makes criminals from those who break same I do not have to wash my hands of it... I do not plan on breaking any laws to make a point... I support the right to a law abiding society no matter the consequence to those who may believe otherwise... I make no criminals criminals do...


As I see it, this blurs two different arguments. When two people have sex, they are both assuming responsibility for any child born from that sexual act. Whether the woman chooses to go forward and allow the pregnancy to continue is her choice because it is her body in which the z/e/f resides.

Talk about hypocrites

Have a nice day
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 382
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/24/2006 9:44:02 AM
but those who do not follow the law would be when caught punished and their freedoms would be gone according to the law... I am woman see me roar would have much less affect behind bars incarcerated,....
THESE ARE YOUR WORDS RIGHT???????
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



*****I and others have not used the word punishment****
*****caught punished and their freedoms would be gone according to the law..****

ALSO YOUR WORDS RIGHT????????????,....

rrrrroOOOOAAAAArrrrrr
Talk about hypocrites ,...CAREFULL,..I LEARNED HOW TO CUT AND PASTE,....
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 383
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/24/2006 9:57:07 AM
You are taking my point as not implied Marita...
The word punishment as I and Babs were/are using it refers to the woman and fetus not as your suggesting I used it in content...
I sometimes wonder my friend...
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 384
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/24/2006 10:08:45 AM
Then how about addressing on or more of the many valid points I have brought up,...

or is this truely a,...yep at all cost,...or no at all cost,..and narry the twain shall meet,...

I have over the course of these many pages brought up those points before,...

and they have gone un noticed,..unanswered,..unaddresses,...
and if we don't,..then they will be left for those that come after us to,...

but go away they won't,....so how about we start talking about something other than,...

from the get go it's killing,....or it's my body buzz off,...

because this isn't a discussion anymore,..it's a stalemate,...

which as long as the law favors choice,...the pro lifers have already lost,...
that,...is just a fact,....today,....
 confused/knothead
Joined: 12/23/2005
Msg: 385
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/24/2006 2:45:03 PM
Miss Mystacallme said, in post #1216: "Marita so right....A man has no cons quences to his body in a pregnancy but if a woman gets pregnant she has many consequences and for a man to want to try to force a woman to do anything that has nothing to do with him is comical to me..."
==========
Dear Miss Mys:
It is obvious that there have always been contractual obligations, and redundant contractual obligations, that men have been responsible for in regards to pregnancy.
On the pre-preg side, a woman should, obviously, have either a contract-in-hand (marriage), or at least consider..."hmmm, if I get pregnant, will this thug really marry me and/or support the child?"
But, just in case the woman gets hot-to-trot with a crappola, the state has this thing called child support.
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 386
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 3:37:10 AM
YAWN boring same old rhetoric
A good man knows very well what a woman goes through when being pregnant simply from tending to her every need... One of the reasons we are called "PARENTS" is because it takes two and going in both the male and female know what the end result can be no matter what form of BC they used or not... Your rhetoric is old and adds nothing new to the topic at hand... Same ol' same ol' "its my body" ...
The very USA your talking about was founded on morals & convictions and is what allows me to have the voice to support and reject any law without question of want or why... Live with it or go some where like China where you can be told what to do instead of following the laws set forth by your peers

Have a nice day
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 387
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 4:00:09 AM
@Lovingthelord
Amen Brother

@DragonN
I have stepped up to the plate in many many ways and am proud of who I am and what I stand for...
Have a nice day
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 388
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 4:23:54 AM
Please note that RYT Hospital is not accepting new patients for this procedure. Male pregnancy is still in its experimental stage and will not be available to the public in the immediate future.

Still a very long way off...
I could not say at this time that I would do it but I know for sure if my mates life were in danger and she asked me too I would without hesitation or reserve


DELIVERY
The delivery will requires open surgery (Cesarean section) to remove the baby and the placenta. Removal of the placenta is the real danger because it forms such intimate connections with surrounding vessels that massive hemorrhage is likely. Implantation may have also involved other structures in the abdomen, including the bowel and it is possible that parts of other organs may need to be removed. Several physicians who are well-accustomed to advanced and dangerous forms of ectopic pregnancies will be on-hand to handle any complications.

I'd dare say we are still far and away from making this procedure a daily accurance...



No disrespect ever intended here

...no worries... I was making a general statement so you know more about the real me

Have a nice day
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 389
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 4:31:25 AM
hahahahaa...
I won't touch that one my friend

Time to start my weekend...

Have a nice weekend!!!
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 390
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 6:24:02 AM
so how many men who advocate the rights of the child above everything will step up and be impregnated,...

you get to live with the risks too,...

and this proceedure which was in fact found by accident when several women appeared to have ectopic pregnancies but carried to term,...

so you think this is a hundred years off????

I DON"T THINK SO,...

look at how far we have come in the last 25 years,...just by the way we are comunicating even which 25 years ago was still within the realm of science fiction or for the very,..VERY wealthy only,....

I say give it five,....fellas,...the line forms on the right,....so now who's going to admitt to it?
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 391
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 7:09:36 AM
I just thought many might find this interesting it's an interview transcript with Mr Lee,..
who is pregnant,...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As an artist who has had solo exhibitions at The Whitney Museum of American Art and The Cleveland Museum of Art, Lee Mingwei explores the evanescent and diurnal cycles of living. His work is based on such basic human activities as cooking, letterwriting, and now child-bearing.


A few weeks ago, writer Janice Versalius of PaperVeins magazine had a long and intimate conversation with Mr. Lee in his Manhattan apartment. An excerpt of the interview appears below. Additional interviews with Mr. Lee will also be included in the upcoming film documentary.

Janice
Mr. Lee, as we just discussed, male pregnancy may prove to be an extremely dangerous medical procedure at this point – particularly when your doctors perform your Cesarian operation. Why have you chosen to do this?

Mr. Lee
A lot of people have cast this endeavor as something terribly monstrous – a startling example of how science and medicine have simply gone too far. From my perspective, however, I am simply bringing a child into this world. There is nothing more natural and beautiful on this earth than that. This is something that I've always wanted to do.

Janice
But surely you understand why some people find the idea of a pregnant man disturbing?

Mr. Lee
Well, I understand how it may be a shocking concept at first. Biologically, women have always given birth to children, and men have not. Despite the dramatic results of the sexual revolution in the latter half of this century, there are still very distinct and concrete social roles determined by this... until now... undeniable biological fact. Now, it seems, we have several important questions to consider. Why shouldn't men carry children and care for a fetus the same way a women does? Why shouldn't a man bear a burden that women have always carried? On the other hand, why shouldn't a man be able to experience the same joy and excitement that a pregnant woman feels nurturing a child within her own body? Now I think men, as well as women, have more choices, more possibilities, more roles they can assume in their lives.

Janice
I can tell you that my father for one would have donated all his internal organs before even entertaining the idea of getting pregnant.

Mr. Lee
Yes, it's interesting that many men feel very threatened by this idea. Men getting pregnant used to be a big joke – a point of ridicule. Someone was telling me about this popular American film where Arnold Schwarzenegger's character became pregnant. The humor was based on the sheer absurdity of such a distinct feminine condition being imposed on someone who represented the ultimate paradigm of Western masculinity. It seems like something rooted in a preoccupation with very traditional gender role assumptions. There was also an episode of The Cosby Show, apparently, where the male characters dreamed they were all pregnant. Now that pregnant men are a reality, no one is laughing anymore!

Janice
I was thinking about how a lot of sitcoms, particularly in the 70's and 80's, were always filled with men dressing up women to get laughs. But when men in real life actually wanted to dress up as women, they were usually harassed or beaten up.

Mr. Lee
That's a good analogy. Drag was once considered something provocative, bizarre, and unnatural. Now we even have the mayor of New York dressing up as a woman on live television. Did you hear about that?

Janice
I remember seeing it last year on Saturday Night Live. I thought I was hallucinating.

Mr. Lee
But, he still did it for laughs. I think many drag queens who were drawn to the subversion of drag – the shock value of it – are somewhat disappointed at how mainstream it has become. And at the same time, I see many transvestites who are still marginalized by both gay and straight people. If you're a man who actually wants to become a woman, without the intent of performing or putting on a show, then you're still considered weird.

Janice
How would you respond to people who would consider you a pregnant transvestite and not a pregnant man?

Mr. Lee
Well, it's not really accurate. I'm still male afterall – biologically and anatomically. It's interesting that some people believe the definition of being a man is so precarious! And unlike the men who feel this strong desire to physically become women, I've never wished for that ... and I haven't done that. I have, however, always wanted to have a much stronger empathy with women. I love my mother and sister very much, and I'm very happy to share in something they have both experienced. Being pregnant is a wonderful feeling. It's something that all human beings – both men and women – should experience before they die. This process has been a spiritual rebirth for me.

Janice
I was just reading about one of your art projects – A Hundred Days With Lily. You have also described it as spiritually renewing experience.

Mr. Lee
Yes. I carried a handful of white lilies for three months with me wherever I went. It was in honor of my grandmother who had passed away, to pay respect to her in some small way.

Janice
I read that this was something rooted in Ch'an Buddhism. Is that correct?

Mr. Lee
The idea is rooted in Ch'an Buddhism. I had spent many years growing up in a Buddhist monastery in Taiwan. We learned to appreciate the simple, transient, and everyday moments in life.

Janice
Well, I must say, a pregnant man isn't something you see everyday.

Mr. Lee
Actually, I see this pregnancy as being very much in keeping with Buddhist philosophical thought. There is a strong connection I feel between myself, the child within my body, and the world around us both. And I think there is a greater awareness and empathy I now share with my mother and sister as a result of my pregnancy. Most of all, there is a level of insight and understanding about being alive – of sharing your life – in ways that I've never realized before.

Janice
I've talked with other pregnant people who have also described this sensation. I felt it strongly myself when I had my own daughter a few years ago... One last question, Mr. Lee. Do you have a name for your baby yet?

Mr. Lee
I think I'll only know the name when the child is born. I guess we'll have to wait and see!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

seems in New York you can see it all,...
 confused/knothead
Joined: 12/23/2005
Msg: 392
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 8:44:23 AM
Dear Miss DragonN:
You say: "When and should Men decide that a woman must carry the zygote to term, he should then be most willing to accept all the risks and responsibilities associated with the gestation, birth and raising of the the said "potential child". "
====
Respectful comment: historically, both pertinent characters (the man and the woman) have shared the burden of childhood.
At the offset, the woman is typically more modest sexually. Typically. The possibility of pregnancy being there, she knows that she had better be "doing it" with a guy she is either contracted to (married to) or strongly trusts.
And can count on for support for that little body in hers, with the DNA and blood-type separate from hers.

However, if SHE (knowing that she will be the one carrying) does not take proper steps pre-preg, there is, in all / most civilized society, a system whereby he is FORCED to contract to her (marriage) OR , at least, pay child support. And he should pay not only child support, but some mother support.

But the woman does not have a natural right to kill the fetus, which is both hers and his.
US law has never recognized such.
The Sup Ct in Roe made an outlaw decision.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 393
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 8:49:38 AM
which is both hers and his
--------------------------------

actually,..it belongs,...to neither,...
it is merely a product of both,...
 confused/knothead
Joined: 12/23/2005
Msg: 394
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 8:53:18 AM
Dear Miss DragonN:
You say: "The female impregnated by his contribution to the conception chooses NOT to continue with the pregnancy, he then would be overjoyed at the knowledge that he can carry the embryo full term."
==============
Humble comment: at the time of "doing it", did the man and woman make contract that he would be the carrier?
Also, if so, she will, of course, pay child support, right? For 18 years.
And, of course she will work her ass off while da-da is home tending his little offspring?
 confused/knothead
Joined: 12/23/2005
Msg: 395
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 8:55:40 AM
Dear Miss Marita:
You are even more correct than I.
I bow in shame, but with the joy of being corrected by a person of possibly more astute intellect.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 396
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 9:09:34 AM
Humble comment: at the time of "doing it", did the man and woman make contract that he would be the carrier?
Also, if so, she will, of course, pay child support, right? For 18 years.
And, of course she will work her ass off while da-da is home tending his little offspring?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hey,...the contratc is irrelevant,..it's presumed,..merely by the DNA results,..

so regardless of who carries to term,..him or her,...
and regardless of who raises,..him or her,...

I bloody hope that the supporting parent pays the raising one,...
it is in fact law in canada,...not the carrying part,..that's still rather new,..as it were,...

but go to stats Can and they will give you the whole skinny,....
I even know a woman who pays her ex,..and he has custody,....

and here it isn't for 18 years,...it's 18 years ONLY if the child doesn't attend university of any higher ed,...
if the child does,...the payments go on until the child has his/her first degree,...
(req,..they must attend full time) and they must have reasonable grades,..so any one can fail a course or two,..but you can't just go for the sake of going and not bothering to try,...
 confused/knothead
Joined: 12/23/2005
Msg: 397
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 9:18:06 AM
Dear Miss Marita:
Being that you are from Acadia (also incorrectly termed Nova Scotia), the soon-to-be-reclaimed home of Louisiana Acadians (so we can summer there):
Does Canada have a federal abortion law, or can the provinces decide?
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 398
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 9:24:05 AM
Abortion is not a crime in Canada. But it is an area of the law where, beyond that simple fact, the waters are very murky. In a nutshell, the Supreme Court of Canada said that the section of the Criminal Code which made abortion a crime was of no force or effect so it is as if that section did not exist. The Supreme Court can overrule Parliament when the latter's laws are incompatible with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. That was the case here.

Behaviour in Canada can only be criminal if a federal law specifically prohibits it.

Section 287 of the Criminal Code became law in 1969.

The Charter of Rights and Freedoms followed in 1982.

The Code made it a criminal offence to "procure a miscarriage." Section 287 says that every one who, with intent to procure the miscarriage of a female person, uses drugs, instruments or manipulation of any kind, for the purpose of carrying out their intention, is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for life. The Code exempted doctors from criminal liability if a hospital abortion committee was prepared to sign a statement to the effect that the "continuation of the pregnancy of the female person would or would likely to endanger (the pregnant woman's) life or health
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 7 of the Charter says that "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice."

Dr. Henry Mortgentaler, through his attempts at establishing abortion clinics in a variety of Canadian provinces, forced the issue of the lawfulness of section 287 of the Criminal Code.

The issue came to a judicial head in 1988, when the Supreme Court ruled that section 287 of the Code offended section 7 of the Charter, and that the former was therefore of no force or effect.

"Forcing a woman," wrote the Chief Justice, Brian****on, "by threat of criminal sanction to carry a foetus to term unless she meets certain criteria unrelated to her own priorities and aspirations, is a profound interference with a woman's body and this a violation of her security of the person."

There were to be other legal challenges.

An Albertan, Joseph Borowski asked the high court to rule that abortions violated the foetus' right to life and equality under section 7 of the Charter. The Saskatchewan Court of Appeal ruled that a foetus was not a person capable of claiming rights under the Charter. Borowski's case never made it to the Supreme Court as the decision in Mortgentaler made the issue in Borowski's appeal moot.

The issue of the rights of the foetus reached the Supreme Court when, in 1989, a Quebec man succeeded in getting an injunction from a Quebec court to prevent his former partner from aborting her foetus. The Court sidestepped the question of foetal rights under the Charter by deciding that the foetus was not a "person" under Quebec's Civil Code.

A legislative vacuum of sorts was created.

Nova Scotia tried to write a law which prevented abortions except at certified hospitals. The provincial act was ruled invalid as an encroachment on criminal law powers that is reserved to the federal government.

When she was prime minister, Kim Campbell tabled a bill to bring back a form of criminal law control over abortions. The bill survived a close vote in the House of Commons on May 29, 1990, (140 to 131) but was defeated in the Senate by a rare tie vote (43 to 43) on January 31, 1991.

Therefore, since the Mortgentaler decision, there is no Canadian criminal law which addresses abortion.

The Liberal government in Ottawa has made it clear that it will not introduce amendments to the Criminal Code with respect to abortion.

A recent development (November, 1996) involves a pregnant Ottawa woman, Brenda Drummond, who tried to kill herself or her foetus by discharging a pellet gun into her vagina. The pellet lodged into the foetus' head and the baby was born alive a few days later. Emergency surgery saved it's life when an x-ray revealed the pellet in the child's head. Attempted murder charges were brought under section 223 of the Criminal Code which says that "a person commits homicide when he causes injury to a child before or during its birth as a result of which the child dies after becoming a human being." The same section defines a "human being ... when it has completely proceeded, in a living state, from the body of its mother whether or not it has completely breathed, it has an independent circulation or the navel string is severed." Defence lawyers are saying that this was merely a failed abortion which, as explained above, is no longer a crime in Canada.
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i dunno,..u tell me?

------------------------------------------------------------

actually because our hospitalization services are by rights free to us and all you need is to go and ask for one,...the chances are,..anyone who wants one gets one,.....

no cost to them either,.......
 confused/knothead
Joined: 12/23/2005
Msg: 399
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 9:54:01 AM
Dear Miss DragonN:
of course, this would have to be contracted in advance.
She cannot simply (if it is indeed physiologically possible, which I absolutely doubt is actually feasible) opt out of her natural moral responsibility and say:
"Here. You do it or I abort it."
That is not a reasonable option.
It is unnatural.
It is not feasible.
And, even if it were, she would SAY that she would sign on for child support, but, in the ensuing years, she would be crying in front of a judge.
And if a liberal one, she would be let off the hook.
Because liberals are prone to cheat.
And a lot of 'Pubs do too.
 confused/knothead
Joined: 12/23/2005
Msg: 400
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 3/25/2006 11:18:25 AM
Dear Miss DragonN:
SHE is the one getting pregnant, not him.
So, then you want the right to change the rules, in the middle of the game?
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