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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Abortions soon to become illegal again [Locked - Topic Hijacked]      Home login  
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 raverdad
Joined: 11/10/2004
Msg: 26
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Abortions soon to become illegal againPage 2 of 63    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41)

What I would like to see settled by the Supreme Court is when exactly does a human beings rights begin? Regardless of everyone's stand on abortion, this is the real issue at hand. At what point does a new human being have enough rights to supercede the rights of a woman to do with her body as she sees fit?


The issue has already been settled. The womans right to kill supercedes the babies right to be born. In every other area the unborn are extended the full protection of the law. Abortion is a travest yof the 14th amendment.

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Some people point to word as showing that the unborn are imune. However the this is false.

1)It is illegal to take any action to deprive any person of any right they are entitled too. Killing a fetus out side of abortion is murder is an estalbished legal fact. The newest and best case of this is Scott Peterson. If a person can be held guilty of crimes that only apply when committed agaisnt fellow human bieng then the fetus is a person.

2) Federal law recognises the unborn of the animal kingdom as full and total members of their species

(15) The term "species" includes any subspecies of fish or wildlife or plants, and any distinct population segment of any species or vertebrate fish or wildlife which interbreeds when mature.

http://www.fws.gov/endangered/esa.html#Lnk03

The federal alw does nto distinguish in any way when making that definition a matter of federal law. The key is here= and any distinct population segment of any species. The unborn are definately part of a population segment and is thus fully human.



The intent of the 14th was clear. To stop states form passing laws that put requirements on citizenship, voting, and the free exercise of all the rights we enjoy as an American or to have them unfairly applied. Yet that is exactly what abortion does, it makes the unborn a lesser citizen whose rights can be trumped.

Also no where else in American law is it legal to execute one perosn for the act of another. Le talone with out due process, with out a crime ever bieng committed, or any type of legal or medical finding on the case. The mother has sex get pregant kills the baby, wham bam thank you mam see you next time.


Now personally I will not tell a rape victim she cannot have an abortion. In a very real sence an abortion in rape or incest might be saivng the life of the mother. Mental trauma can be just as devestatign as cancer. I don't know of any one who is opposed to medically required abortions. The whole controversy is centered aorund elective procedures that weigh only the mothers right to avoid the consequences of her actions by executing an unborn child.

This is why I revell in getitgn 2 cosnervative supreme court jsutices. We finally ahve a chance to end murder ink err I mean planned parenthood. And the war agiasnt our children. The babie sar enot to blame for the mothers actions and should not hav eot apy the ultimate price for her to avoid the consequences of what she freely chose to engage in.
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 27
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/26/2006 8:14:24 PM
I see that since it is obvious that Roe vs Wade will be shot down you can only resort to the same old song and dance, or same ol' rhetoric as the say... and MY side WINS
...and since this is a Federal matter fear not what the states choose to do they fall under federal juristiction and will obide by the eventual law(s) that WILL pass
I'll let you stew for now because time is now on my side not yours
Let the unborn sing and life for those who had<-- no choice before make their voicers heard

AMEN raverdad !!!
The time has come for the winds of change to blow this storm called abortion away once and for all....
 martini....
Joined: 2/18/2006
Msg: 28
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/26/2006 8:55:07 PM
any one else notice how all the anti abortion posters seem to be men?
 toonsmith
Joined: 1/19/2005
Msg: 29
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/26/2006 10:03:11 PM
Somebody else would be thrilled to take the baby off your hands so what's the problem ?



I totally agree. Many loving families out there who can't conceive for one reason or another.
That baby might grow up to be a Mozart, a healer, a scientist....who knows? Good post, Gotapulse.



Toon
 toonsmith
Joined: 1/19/2005
Msg: 30
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/26/2006 10:27:12 PM
Well, then, I can hope that women make that choice. (Adoption) I totally respect women and I think motherhood is a wonderful thing.

I'm certainly not equipped to debate about freedom and rights, I just know that one of the best things that ever happened to me, was becoming a father. Just my two cents.


Toon
 sanktspirit
Joined: 7/30/2005
Msg: 31
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/26/2006 10:38:39 PM

any one else notice how all the anti abortion posters seem to be men?


Libertarian men defend the innocent.


Can we infer from this that you believe that a decision that might be made by a Supreme Court majority that was hand-picked for a particular view of abortion would be fairer than the original Roe decision, which, as noted above, was made by a non-partisan court?

An interesting notion of justice...


Late trimester babies have suffered horrifically while being dismembered or while having its brain sucked out. Astonishingly though (or perhaps not so astonishingly) the abortion issue is not negotiable from the sneering feminist table. Deflective hysteria, agitprop, Marxist dogma and phony rhetoric repeats endlessly year after year regardless of the doubts or maybe a notion of suffering by the fetus in a dark, infanticidal campaign. Millions of hapless innocents destroyed by a truely sadistc gang of morally bankrupt, nihilist fanatics concerned solely with their own insatiable lust for power. If even one child has suffered because of this holocaust then the proponents for this crime against humanity need to be held accountable and not unlike Nuremberg, indicted and brought to justice. Judgement Day is approaching.
 sanktspirit
Joined: 7/30/2005
Msg: 32
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 1:12:21 AM

This isn't right wing radio, we deal with realty here. Better start learning.


Or what? Youre going to "learn" me a lesson? That would be consistent with the pompous blatherings frothing from your blatant arrogance. (Whats the difference between ignorance and arrogance? You apparently dont know and apparently dont care.)
Regarding marxism, the foulest fraud to ever pollute the universe, its about class warfare. Exceedingly brutal and bloody class warfare. Male vs female, straight vs gay, black vs white, rich vs poor, old vs young etc. The most heinous atrocities from the past 100+ years have resulted from this hellish garbage ideology and the abortion campaign exemplifies this like no other. Even republicans hypocritically have embraced abortion as a solution to reducing welfare rolls and the pseudo-left in the US demands it so as to procure what Catherine Mackinnon titled "the Dictatorship of the Female". I encounter feminists daily defending marxist violence and demanding greater authority along with the surrender of male civil rights at any cost. Too many dictators such as yourself on the net these days. "Better start learning".
 DonWilliams
Joined: 2/23/2006
Msg: 33
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 2:30:31 AM
I agree that abortions should be made illegal.

Just to get politics out of it. Because it will not change a thing except for very poor and maybe not even for them.

It is only one drive or less to Mexico or Canada from any state in the U.S. And, for that kind of money, Mexico will allow abortions for foreigners.

Suppose however, the U.S. could somehow get Mexico and Canada to not allow abortions?
It would not matter. For $401.43, including taxes, you can fly round trip from John F Kennedy, New Youk to Paris, stay 3 days get your abortion and return.

Maybe then sanity would return and, law or no law, the authorities would turn a blind eye or better yet repeal all the abortion laws.

Abortion should be a non-issue. I'm tired of all the screaming about it from both sides.
 shark or bait
Joined: 2/22/2006
Msg: 34
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 3:02:29 AM
^You are obviously joking.

Sarcasm is more effective when it has just a touch of reality mixed in.
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 35
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 10:32:06 AM
... for me you either are pro-life or you are not...
....pro-choice supports abortion PERIOD...
...the word PUSH or PUSHING has nothing to do with the equation to me...
...no middle ground because you are supporting the taking of life simple as that......
I for one believe life starts at conception, that is my choice and what I believe, my opinion and I am free to make that statement as you are yours
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 36
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 10:37:47 AM
The thing is, that if you really believe a zygote is human when the first two cells divide into four then that's a matter of religious faith. You can't make a convincing scientific or logical argument that four cells is a human being. I respect your view, but it really should carry no weight in a public policy debate. It's a matter of your views and choice; you should let others make their own choice based on their own views.
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 37
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 10:49:00 AM

...and such is your right, that ends at your nose. Meaning, your entitlement to your opinion does not translate into infringement of rights of others granted under the Constitution.


... does not end at my nose it ends when I stop voting for Gov't officials who will represent my values and views... hmnmnmn is that not also granted under the same Constitution?

...the topic of this thread is it not about what is now but what the future may hold per say...
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 38
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 11:11:57 AM
I agree babylonia 100% that whether we like the law or not we should obide by them and try to make changes in peaceful ways like voting and open discussions such as this one which may help someone decide one way or the other...
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 39
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 11:36:15 AM
"Rights" and "opinions" are usually two different things...


a choice is ALWAYS far better when it comes to the question of abortion.

The latter is your opinion and for now a right under the law but not ALWAYS as you have described
It is my choice to fight for the right to abolish abortion through a thorough understanding of the constitution as our forefathers meant it to be , in my opinion, which I have the right to....
Are you saying that the following quote from the article is from the minority???

The first step in overturning Roe vs. Wade is soon to be taken. South Dakota has passed legislation that once it is signed by the governor will make abortions illegal in South Dakota even in cases of rape or incest. The one exception to the law is if a woman's life is in danger.
The governor has already indicated that he is inclined to sign this legislation.

The masses in SD have spoken through the representatives they have voted into office and that in my mind speaks to the majority not of the minority
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 40
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 11:46:35 AM
Hey babylonia
I'll never question your right to pursue your values NEVER...
We both have many of the same values and I applaud you as a woman with convictions
Many men and women do not have any one way or another...
The only thing I want you to understand about part of my stance is that together we can make a pregnancy but it is not my choice after that... It is always about the woman and her body but what about the man in this equation? We have no voice but have to live with the consequences be what they may... Child support or the chance at fatherhood flushed down the proverbial drain... For a lack of better words SORRY...
I am not pro-choice and proud of it and I know you are and I can also be proud of you too not matter how hypocritical that sounds
 sanktspirit
Joined: 7/30/2005
Msg: 41
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 1:04:32 PM
Obviously debating this issue is a waste of time.
One cannot change the mind of a fanatic without their consent and totalitarians dont share consent.
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 42
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 1:23:56 PM

So, if you are pro-life for this reason, then you are not *really* pro-life. You are angry that you do not get to choose, so you wish to take that choice away from women. This may not be the entirety of your beliefs, but this is how your last post (above) makes it sound.

Now you know I was only paraphrasing on "the woman's body" statement not my reasons for being pro-life tsk tsk tsk ... I have many reasons that are mine and mine alone...
But if I may for a sec, if I sound bitter about the above then surely you too can come across as bitter because its your body per say... THINK...
as in
"why do you think you should have a say its MY BODY!!!"...
thus the proverbial vicious circle prevails or both sides agree to disagree and wish each other well...
 arionmaclorien
Joined: 6/2/2004
Msg: 43
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 1:32:00 PM
I don't believe there are enough emoticons to express this subject fully





 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 44
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 1:46:39 PM

The argument "My body, my choice" is as simple as it gets.

My point exactly!!!
"SIMPLE" was the word I was looking for!!!
^^^^^ I am just joking you know...
For every argument you give for your views I can backup mine with another...
Bottom line is we, in the states, vote for someone who treasures our ideals and holds them close to their heart same as we do... Then if enough voters think like I do and vote their convictions in time laws change or stay the same...
As parents we raise our children and teach them our values and hope that something sticks and love them no matter... The circle continues...
 sanktspirit
Joined: 7/30/2005
Msg: 45
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 1:52:45 PM

These laws are raping women through legislation. Over, and over, and over.


Feminist laws are raping innocent men and women over the coals now. Over, and over, and over. Feminists intend Family law to be a monolithic, unaccountable Politburo with a clique of their own personality cult Aparatchiks in charge. The feminist movement is the fanatically zero-sum and has violently taken too much power.
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 46
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 2:16:32 PM

If she had been in that financial bind when she was pregnant and could abort them, why can't she murder them now that it has become a bind. Then lets remove the feeding tubes of the cripples and the elderly, after all they do not contribute to society.


The problem is that the 'human at conception' camp really believes that those who disagree with them are "Pro-death" which is just not honest. Most "Pro-Choice" people believe that a person has the right to control their own body. The vast majority would avoid getting an abortion themselves. I personally think that those women who see abortion as birth control are sick and wrong. But I'm sick of the government trying to control people's medical choices.

As for conventional morality, the ready availability of antibiotics did a lot more to encourage promiscuity than the legality of abortion did. After all, if you have someone with "the clap" screaming as they urinate in the public urinal that's an excellent free public service announcement for guys who really do want to get a girl pregnant, have her carry the child, and not care for it.

Antibiotics were in their heyday at about the time of Roe v. Wade. Those who argue that abortion causes immorality typically fail to account for the impact that antibiotics had on sexual immorality.

And now, as STDs have been spread through our society and are increasingly uncontrollable by antibiotics, the pendulum will swing the other way. Herpes. HPV. Antibiotic resistant bacteria such as MRSA (Resistant Staph Aureus), Resistant Chlamydia, HIV, various Herpes strains (not just Simplex) and a host of viruses which don't have names, may not be clinically obvious, and won't show up on an STD test.
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 47
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 2:24:39 PM

The feminist movement is the fanatically zero-sum and has violently taken too much power.


Yeah, all those feminists blowing up busses in order to get their way.

Granted, some parts of the feminist movement were subverted by communists, in the same way that the communists tried to subvert a lot of otherwise good movements (like the early labor movement.) But in the same way that there isn't just one type of 'conservative' there isn't just one type of feminist either.

My school recognized a guy as a rapist and expelled him for it, but still refused to prosecute saying that they 'didn't want to ruin his life.'

The laws in this country, they still have a long way to go.
 sanktspirit
Joined: 7/30/2005
Msg: 48
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 3:20:58 PM

I have read your previous posts about 'feminism' and don't buy it. I find it to be a conspiracy theory, particularly in a subject where in concerns the rights of the female and her body. You are throwing a red herring into the debate, and I am, quite frankly, not interested.

I am not advocating to have control over your bodily functions, and I expect the same respect in return. Please start a new thread on your feminist rant, because we are discussing abortion, and the two are not synonymous.


You must be joking. Not synonymous??! Feminist lobbies were the prime mechanism behind legalizing abortion and are the primary advocates for retaining it. You are advocating total control over an area that is somewhat grey and have intransigently demanded complicity in opinion. Feminists deny that the child in the womb has any rights but I urge you to re-examine these rights and that they supercede an adults "choice". The unborn also have a right to make a choice over their bodies as well and the fact that this has been denied them on a such massive scale is a despicable crime against humanity.
 sanktspirit
Joined: 7/30/2005
Msg: 49
Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 3:31:08 PM
I refuse to accept the Establishments tyrannical definitions for almost anything. A womans body is not the only DNA present in a womb and the Fathers input should have equal protection that women have so egregiously monopolized. The child (not a z/e/f) deserves this protection as well.
 atrkyhntr™
Joined: 12/20/2005
Msg: 50
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Abortions soon to become illegal again
Posted: 2/27/2006 3:39:04 PM
We all seem to be in a quagmire...
What, if any, answer can come of all this if we debate with no middle ground...
Can there be a middle ground?
What would the parameters be?
Who "GULP" will start?
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