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 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 72
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?Page 8 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
TennKan
There are still women out there, like me for instance that think , no, I know ......that being a gentleman and being strong enough to be one.in the face of the new morality and and lack of chilvary as commonplace.................a man like you is REFRESHING.......
I am even amazed at the lack of manners from so many. I would never dream of walking in front of someone and not saying "excuse me"........as one example......from both sexes.............. but I have found even that is lacking today. I think a gentleman is a rare find..I applaud you!!
 WanderingRain
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 74
view profile
History
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/13/2008 11:13:14 PM
WE do tend to view chivalry of the past through rose tinted glasses.

That chivalrous man of days of yore opened your doors and is a perfect gentleman with a lady.
But then he also went and beat his slaves; would go "be with the boys" by shooting a helpless animal for sport not food or burned and pillaged other kingdoms (even killing children) because his King said so.

So he may not open your doors, but at least he does not beat his slaves.
"Being with the boys" for him only means watching football on a widescreen.
When he is sent to foreign lands, it is usually as a business trip.
Even in the military, people are nowadays more sensitive to the cultural mores of the societies that they meet. We have made progress in some areas, but we are still working on having it all. Eventually, we'll get close to it.


As for being nice, yeah, nice and wonderful people don't really advertise their qualities. I personally don't do that myself. If a woman fails to see the real me, that's just her loss, I guess.
 GoneSailinBabe
Joined: 7/6/2008
Msg: 75
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 5:01:10 AM
Chivalry is alive.
My sons are chivalrous.
They are admirable, strong and pure hearted men.
They adore their women, they respect women as a gender, and they behave as virtuous and strong males.

So I know that chivalry is not in the past. They are 21 and 23.
They make the choice - how to behave. And they know it. They're aware of it. They always have been.

If you want men to be men, raise men.
If you want mutts from Hell - raise brats, who scoff, are disrespectful and uncaring of their mother's as women.

My sons knew the sacrifices I made to raise them, they knew the life I lived as a single mother to very young little boys after their father had an affair.

They watched, they learned, they grew - and they vowed to never be such a man of so little morals or ethics or values.

And they aren't.

Being a worthy and good man is a CHOICE.
It's a choice to live life that way.
It's a desire to not just SAY that you're a good man, but to truly behave like one.

Some talk a really good talk.
But....when it comes down to it....they have a shitty job, they have a few too many drinks, they get drunk and they drive, they get in trouble in court, one thing leads to another....

And suddenly - the talk isn't matching the walk.

Actions speak louder than all the sweet whispered endearments ever warming an ear.

Are there any REAL men?
Haven't met one yet.
But I've raised two.
My contribution to the future.
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 76
"REAL" 'good person" vs. "fake" chivalry? ??
Posted: 11/14/2008 8:22:40 AM
post # 183:

"WE do tend to view chivalry of the past through rose tinted glasses.

That chivalrous man of days of yore opened your doors and is a perfect gentleman with a lady.
But then he also went and beat his slaves; would go "be with the boys" by shooting a helpless animal for sport not food or burned and pillaged other kingdoms (even killing children) because his King said so.

So he may not open your doors, but at least he does not beat his slaves.
"Being with the boys" for him only means watching football on a widescreen.
When he is sent to foreign lands, it is usually as a business trip.
Even in the military, people are nowadays more sensitive to the cultural mores of the societies that they meet. We have made progress in some areas, but we are still working on having it all. Eventually, we'll get close to it."

yes, Bengal Blue (post # 183) is right on, sort of what I tried to say before.. :)

"chivalry" was and IS, often VERY SUPERFICIAL..

be 'polite' in public, then go home and beat your wife & kids etc..

Or, e.g. go to church and act like some 'perfect Christian' to impress other people.

then be a total HYPOCRITE and lie, cheat & steal in business to get ahead, etc

cheat on your spouse "secretly"...be a petty, hateful,. vindictive & jealous pr*ck, etc., etc.

I understand that Adolf Hitler was a very charming, "chivalrous" man to women & children (welll at least non-Jewish, or "aryan" ones..) he was reputed to be very kind to children & animals.

rather than the SUPERFICIAL "show" of chivalry, I'd rather a person be a GENUINELY good person.

MANY of those "Southern Gentlemen" you reminisce so fondly about also donned KKK hoods & robes at night and cowardly killed and tormeented people for being the "wrong race". ..etc.. Medgar Evers was no doubt murdered by "southern gentlemen"

keep your fake chivalry and try being an ACTUAL "good person"..
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 77
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 8:29:29 AM

What ever happened to committment and chivalry?

I found both in one person. Well, he found me. HEY, thinking about that, I have both "qualities" in quite a few people. My son, my step-father, my friends, etc. Maybe I'm just lucky or maybe I get returned what I offer? I think it definitely works both ways and if I'm committed/faithful/loyal/etc., it's almost always returned. I also think chivalry is the most fun we can have with another person ~ do nice things for no reason and it's amazing what you get back. Whether it's a heartfelt thank you or a little surprise for no reason ~ it's all good when it happens. (And NO, I don't think these things apply only to romantic involvements ~ they apply to anyone/anything that is truly worth having in one's life.) JMO
 yourstillhere
Joined: 7/30/2008
Msg: 78
view profile
History
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 2:52:35 PM
I always make sure to hold her head down before I close the trunk lid, so you can just call me Mr Chivalry.
 SouthernWay
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 79
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/14/2008 11:34:52 PM

Most women unless they are ready to marry - find it boring unless it is johnny depp being chivalrous. And an awful lot of women are doing the "we grew apart" thing, and grabbing the house and kids, leaving the knight in shining armor hocking his armor to cover child support.


I would have to agree with you jumpypants; most women today are all about what they can accomplish in life and it doesn't matter how many men they have to walk or stomp on to get to that. Most women today don't know a good man when one falls out of the sky on their face. Or even what they truly want out of life; I mean, the media shoves all of this s**t down their throat at an early age and then it is reiterated with their mothers going out cheating on their fathers, or divorcing them for no good reason, or just being the way that they are today (thinking that they don‘t have to suffer any consequences for their actions; believe me I see it everyday, everywhere I go). This then ruins any and all chances of the "old school" women to find and convince these few and far between men that they really are the real thing and that they will do anything and everything for them just to make them happy with life; that they are here for the long haul, no matter what happens; that they are there to help through every obstacle that life may throw their way, no matter how small or large.

Although I do not think that women would have to be reduced to being marked as property as was in the past; maybe if the old values were established back with the new generation things would change, but that would mean that all of the “rigid” women of today would have to relearn what it means to be an actual woman and would have to honor and respect their man (like that will happen).

I was raised in such a way that you respected your elders, were kind to all the people you met, never talked back to your parents unless you wanted to pick your teeth up off the ground (hell for that matter never talk back to any one in your family), always used your manners, and if you loved someone, show them everyday, in whatever little way that you could. And in that regard, you would treat the one that you loved with the utmost care, striving to ensure their happiness; because within their happiness, you find yours and even though arguments are inevitable, you always stay by their side; through the arguments and through life. I was taught that if you did all of those things, then you would find happiness and a better understanding of life.
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 80
REAL 'good person vs. fake chivalry? ??
Posted: 11/15/2008 1:29:04 AM
Complete Man
You have made some pretty BROAD statements concerning a great deal of different types.
I for one was married to a True southern gentlemen. He was not just a church-goer, but a true Christian. He lived everyday of his life since being saved as one looking for the appearing of our Lord. I never in all the years I knew him Ever heard him say anything stronger than "dag-nabit" even in the heat of our arguments. He was not a wimp either. Christianity for one is not for wimps> it is easy to "go with the flow". However back on the subject at hand. My husband spent 11 years in the Airforce, played AAA Baseball, was Union President 3 terms for a local, and national Company
( 2400 employees locally), worked on many charities and a member of the board on many things locally and nationally.
He was as stubborn as the day is long with what he believed in..but open.. and ever learning. I respected him more than I could ever say, and even had I not been fortunate enough to be his wife, I would have still thought he was one of the finest men ever lived. He treated not only his wife and children with respect, but never even considered allowing a lady ( female) to open a door...always used yes sir, no sir........and give his seat to his elders or a woman when the circumstance warranted it. ..... allowed older couples ahead of him in line .......AND he didn't stop to ask their pedigree or if they were " loose" or not. WHEN WE HAD GUESTS IN OUR HOME..IT WAS AlWAYS Mi Casa, Su Casa...... and welcome to anything he owned except his wife.......Just basic common decency from a up-bringing he clung to. He would never have allowed a woman to pay for a meal in his presence.even if it meant he would have less than 15 cents for the rest of the week. My son is a lot like him..........and your age.....an E-8 in the Army......... and knows the
differnce between a male and a man. I could go on and on...............because chivalry is NOT dead.............just being overshadowed by those that don't have the basic idea .
To put others first, especially your lady..............is not a weakness , but a strength that few learn these days. I have seen so many children call their parents by their first name, stand up and cuss them, etc. My son as old as he is, if he ever even considered either.among other things...............I would lay him out. I am closer to my son-law's and daughter-law's than most people are their own children.
Do I saint him because he is dead.................no really just the true way he was. For me he had a magic about him........a true chivalry and I was proud and STill am to be his wife .
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 81
REAL 'good person vs. fake chivalry? ??
Posted: 11/15/2008 1:42:36 AM
AND also.he was from the DEEP south, but we had many black friends both in the community and in our home. His family as far as either of us knew were never involved in the KKK..................
Never cheated on his taxes and was inclined to pay more on the the plus side. He believed that this country, .......reguardless of whether his choice for elected leaders or not......was just as much his responsibilty to uphold as anyone. To cheat in anyway is to cheat the man in the mirror. He was not perfect in any way............but he really did believe in death before dishonor, etc...all of the things that in my opinion makes a man a real man. And he was a good man.
Do we judge all Germans by Hitler ? No............All Japs...by Pearl Harbour...........or all Vietnamese by the Viet Cong............all yankees by slave traders................on and on.
I was involved in lots of childrens programs in innner city. People respond to how you treat them.........and I prefer to treat each of them as I want to be treated........makes me sleep well at night..........and maybe , just maybe make a difference.

I was always the quieter one and more shy while he was really outgoing............but he referred to me as the "wind beneath his wings" and until I see GLORY........I will never know a greater honor than being his wife.
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 82
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/15/2008 8:39:25 AM
GoneSailinBabe


I relate to you so much on the upbringing of your sons. My late husband was not the father of my chldren, but an ex-husband that to this day has not figured out how to be a man. Still a two throwing fits and wondering why he don't always get his way.
Long before my late husband came into the picture, .........I installed in my children common decency and respect. My wonderful husband just re-inforced those values.
I am amazed sometimes myself at my children..........and often so proud it literally brings tears to my eyes. In between husband's, I had a rough row to hoe raising them and still trying to be a full- time mom. I put my own career on hold to work as a day-care teacher so I was able to have them with me. I also raised two step-children...that if I did not tell you which were mine by birth..you would not know.
They are all respectful, whole, successful. Not too long ago I mentioned how I was so proud of all they have accomplished and how proud I am of them..........they far excel me in any economic stature, and are quite self confident. My oldest daughter( not by birth) said " Mom, we have all talked about this for years........we know what other kids were allowed to do, how they dissed their parents, never had to do the chores, the respect we were taught for others, etc. We know how easy it would be for you to have just let us have our own way........ we see it in our own children.... and now know that it hurts to correct them sometimes...........it takes guts and love to be a real parent....on and on.
I applaud you for the sacrifices you made "Gonesailinbabe" ............ the rewards of seeing such fine young men as you have kinda makes all those sacrifices dim now.
The hand that rocks the cradle really does rule the world...........and I wish more would attend to that, than excelling in carreers at the EXSPENSE" of their children.
I will probably get battered here for the " career" thing...... but I believe what I believe.
 10of6
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 83
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/15/2008 8:52:48 AM
I believe a chivalrous man will take a loud-mouthed, self-centered, sassy wench over his knee and whoop her good, until she changes her behavior to be deserving of civil/chivalrous treatment.

Then, again, this type of treatment--a part of the entire "being a man" mystique--is no longer an option, unless the man who does this enjoys unemployment, excoriation by the community, and possible jail time.

For me, I just don't bother wasting my time in a culture and civilization that not only no longer appreciates and heralds this behavior, and works with a feverish energy reminscent of psychopaths with a view towards expunging it from men..
 10of6
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 85
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/15/2008 10:06:20 AM
^^^^^I know you're taking yourself seriously, but I'm calling you on this one.

Do you understand that you can substitute the word "man/men" for "woman/women" and vice-versa in your five-point plant and it be completely applicable? By the way I don't know how to nor give a crap about hunting; let's put this prejudice away in the prejudice box, with all of the rest of the prejudices, k? Either sex has the capability of doing things they don't need to do in everyday life. I have the ability to run faster and to lift more than most women, so when I need to use it, I will; I don't consider it as a factor in how I think or react.

When women show they deserve the chivalry they're so desperately seeking, then perhaps it will be bestowed.
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 86
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/15/2008 12:06:27 PM
When women show they deserve the chivalry they're so desperately seeking, then perhaps it will be bestowed
10of6

And just how do you determine who you "figure" deserves this treatment.? By what standards do you base this?
EVERYONE deserves common courtesy, chilvary, whatever it is called............I would treat the man on the street corner with a sign in his hand for food,or the man filthy picking up cans for a living with the same respect as I do ANYONE.....in a suit and tie, or in office. It is not who they are, or how they portray themselves that determines who I AM, and what I believe. I may not always get the same treatment in return,,,and true I have a tenderheart that has been crushed many times by people that may believe my kindness as weakness.....but God help me, if I ever forget how!!! Where do you or anyone else get off putting yourself above others and expecting them to "deserve". When they no longer "deserve" do you go back to treating them like dirt because they no longer maintain your standards? How do you know what life has dealt to them, and how decide which is "WORTHY" of you? WOW>>>>>>>>>>>>>..come on.
Religion aside.........Jesus said it best when HE said" love thy neighbor as thyself."
Imagine the returns if one would just treat others with the same respect they would like.? My children have always told me one of the greatest lessons I ever taught them was that " for the grace of GOD, there go I...................."
How many women have been so beat down by a man they trusted ........that meeting a good man is what they need to bring them back,,, struggle to find themselves again.......,and vice versa for a man?
You can't teach a person to stand tall by knocking them down every time they try to stand.
No wonder our society is in such trouble

MY SOAPBOX FOR THE DAY>>>>>>>>>>>>>but it clearly made me ANGRY!!
 Agreatukk
Joined: 7/22/2007
Msg: 89
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/16/2008 2:08:28 AM
Man Of Chivalry
A chivalrous man
Would pilot an air-balloon
Across the countryside of England
To the Magdalen Meadows in Oxford
And pick a one-of-a-kind
Purple Moon Carnation
And declare his lady
As his sweetheart
By pinning this flower
Over the area of her bosom
That houses amorous feeling of love
Only for him

A chivalrous man
Would navigate a boat
Up the Saramacca River
To the torch ginger cane fields
In the Amazon Rainforest
And bring back for his lady's enjoyment
A basket flowing over
With torch-shaped flowers
Burning with beauty
And use them
To turn their bedroom
Into a romantic paradise

A chivalrous man
Would drive a snowmobile
Across the snow-covered landscape
Between Norway and Greenland
To the U-shaped valleys of Iceland
And gather 861 papery white flowers
From atop the arctic poppies
And write upon them
How many heavenly ways
He will love his lady forever
As his angelic soul-mate

Man of chivalry, no more needs
To be written about you
For one only needs to behold the joy
Flowing like the Nile River
In your lady's smile
To know how happy you make her
 Agreatukk
Joined: 7/22/2007
Msg: 90
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/16/2008 2:17:48 AM
^ Just an old fashioned romantic I suppose?
 10of6
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 91
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/16/2008 10:00:26 AM

^ Just an old fashioned romantic I suppose?
You've summarized the misconception in a nutshell there, FH. They're talking "romantic," more than "chivalrous." The word chivalry derives from French "chevalier" or Spanish "caballero" meaning in essence a knight.

My concept of true chivalry is what brought on excoriation--if others think I'm going to change my position just because it [the meaning of the pure form of chivalry] does not contort with cultural and political manipulation, well, I wouldn't suggest holding your breaths. Nothing I said was insulting, it was merely a statement of acceptable behavior in knightly times.

In feudal Europe there existed a standard of behavior among knights and how they were to relate to the general public, most of whom were sharecroppers. It would have been fully imaginable that a knight would take "corrective" action for those who disrespected his position, the position of their lords, as well as for those who abused theirs, or took advantage a situation due to their sex, irrespective of their position in society (with the exception of royalty).

I say again, with respect to chivalry it wasn't even back then a one-way street. And today, as I would expect for myself, I would get preferential or deferential treatment only if I earned it. I don't view it as something that is extended merely because of sex; that concept is antiquated. It would be nice if people could treat each other "civilly" or "romantically" these days, but until cultural and political dynamics change, there's little or no motivation/inspiration for it.
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 96
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/16/2008 11:26:47 AM
seaga:
You have a LOT to learn,,,,,and it makes no sense to repost so much about my husband on here....or my son............or many of the other men that know how instinctively how to be one because they were brought up with basic moral fiber and consideration for others......if you don't get it by now...
...but a whiner..............for ..............big difference between a whiner and a soft hearted man secure enough to let tears flow when he's happy, when something touches his heart.... .when those little ones wrap there arms around his neck, and he is filled with emotion at the wonder of it all...... Show me a man that don't cry and I'll show you a man with no heart.
And to he that said we don't like lovey dovey..........oh we love that..we just don't like " touchy , feely" Big difference and soooooooooo many men can't figure that out.
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 97
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/16/2008 11:32:46 AM
21, and so much wisdom from one so young!
hang in there...you don't want the one that that is influenced by what the crowd does, but the one that responds to you being who you are and valueing you as a person with honor
 compleat_man
Joined: 10/3/2008
Msg: 99
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/16/2008 1:03:52 PM
yes yes,..

"Religion aside.........Jesus said it best when HE said" love thy neighbor as thyself."


and then the Crusaders used 'the teachings of Jesus' to justify slaughtering tens of thousands of 'non-believers' or 'infidels' or whatever other label you wish to use..(mostly Muslims) ncluding men, women and small children, chopping their heads off til the streets ran red with blood..

no doubt they were 'chivalrous' to 'believers' when they got back home though..

are Iraq/Afghanistan modern "Crusades" ? today men drop bombs that kill hundreds or thousands of civilians including women and children, (but they are only 'foreign' people, so not too important I guess..) and are chivalrous heroes when they return..

or should we all deny history & reality yet again?
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 100
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/16/2008 1:46:06 PM
and then the Crusaders used 'the teachings of Jesus' to justify slaughtering tens of thousands of 'non-believers' or 'infidels' or whatever other label you wish to use..(mostly Muslims) ncluding men, women and small children, chopping their heads off til the streets ran red with blood..

You seem to miss the whole point of these discussions:..........you are classing all Christians. all chivarous men, .all Crusaders as you call them in one group. If you didn't know..........it was in fact Jesus' own that crucified HIM, but that did not make HIM any less than HE was.
So much of everything including the Bible are taken out of context. and only convenient parts used, that man can justify his behavior by doing that. However this discussion is not about our faith, but about common decency, committment and chivalry. Let me ask this of those that are against it or only believe it should be given to those "worthy". How do you treat your mother ? How do you feel if someone mistreats your mother?
Do you expect a man to treat your sister the same way you view treating women?
Chivalry is NOT dead, and using any history from the PAST or PRESENT is not an excuse for bad manners, and or the lack of chivary and committment.
My neighbor may beat his dog, slap his wife and not take care of his children...but that does not give me the excuse to lower my standards and follow him. I choose to be upright and not follow the crowd, but rather what I know is right. I would rather be misjudged for doing right, than to go with what goes against my grain, and treat people as I may in my stupidity perceive THEY DESERVE to be treated. Thank God I have ran into wonderful people in my life that have treated me like a queen, when I may have felt because of my lack of social standing, finances, lack of education, my shyness......etc that I myself did not deserve it myself. Those people stand tallest in my heart and mind..and always will.
You are so young to be so bitter!
 10of6
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 101
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/16/2008 5:25:09 PM
"Come on men, straighten up, stop making all men look bad, and making it harder for the good ones."
I don't understand this line of thought at all. No one put me on earth to "represent." I act out of respect for myself and for others who have earned it. I can't imagine your pleading will even have much effect on impressing women, either, since millions of them have bought into the anti-male propaganda that permeates western cultures. If that was the intent of your plea, it was naive; if it was to inspire men, I dare say that you don't know what inspires men.
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 102
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/17/2008 12:35:23 PM

Most women unless they are ready to marry - find it boring unless it is johnny depp being chivalrous. And an awful lot of women are doing the "we grew apart" thing, and grabbing the house and kids, leaving the knight in shining armor hocking his armor to cover child support.


Ahhhh ~ how frickin' sad. I don't know if this was composed by a man or woman, really makes no difference. The rays of sunshine just pour of out this quote. For all of you who think differently, you are the reason I still believe(d). I don't care what anyone on a "dating" site states, if you deserve it, you get it. If you don't ~ so sorry. I heard this really alarming story from someone I thought was a "friend" once. He had a date ~ dinner. She refused to open her own door, so he left her in his truck until his meal was done (I doubt he even tipped, but that's just my guess) and she just sat there waiting. That to me, is a clear example of why/how things have become so skewed. Guys ~ it's not about money. (At least not to some of us.) It's about "thought" and gentleness/kindness. The man in my life went on vacation to Mexico without me not long ago ~ I got shells from the beach. He got a "welcome home" card. That is, to me, what this is about. And he would NEVER leave me in the truck because my door didn't open on it's own. Common courtesy rings a bell (and YES, I'm more than capable of opening my own damn door ~ it's just nice when it's not expected.) Wow, today ~ I'm so happy for those in my life male or female, who feel ecards, snail-mail, simple gifts and impromtu phone calls mean something. It doesn't cost a penny to let someone know they are special. (In fact, the free stuff means much more than the other, at least to me.) Good luck to you all who think it's about something else ~ what a rough road that must be to travel. (To the rest of you? ) JMO
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 103
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/17/2008 1:12:30 PM

Honor above all, death before dishonor
- Respect yourself and others
- Your word is your bond
- Courage at all time.
- Honest in your mind and in your heart.
- Faith in your convictions in front of adversity.
- Your duty is to protect who can't
- Uphold justice even before law or power.
- Help anyone in need.

And this applies to BOTH genders. And people who truly GET what honesty and "your word is your bond" means,don't usually have a whole lot of trouble with the concept of committment, be it to a life partner, a cause, a family, a career, a friend or even a pet.
The "manners" part simply arises from LIVING the stated tenents.
Why does everyone have to keep trying to make this way harder than it needs to be?
Cindy O
 ichi-bon
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 107
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/18/2008 4:34:53 PM
Ben_Raines

WOW, you hit it all right on the head ! AWESOME>...............and what a woman you have!!! I am so happy for both of YOU!!!!!!!!
 10of6
Joined: 8/27/2008
Msg: 110
What ever happened to committment and chivalry?
Posted: 11/19/2008 7:11:36 PM
^^^^^ I have a list of demands...and if you don't meet them, I'll...I'lll....I'll....go abroad and find a foreign woman.
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