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 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 48
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Republicans Are Happier Than DemocratsPage 4 of 8    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8)

and the loss of savings and creation of a consumer mentlaity after the creation of social security.


That's a mighty big stretch. If you claim to be a conservative, aren't you supposed to believe in 'personal responsibility?'

Bush was the one urging Americans to go out and spend to boost the economy.

You do remember the Iran Contra scandal don't you? With CIA hacks under Reagan selling crack cocaine in the inner cities to fund their operations. It's hard to get more pro-cocaine than actually letting governmemnt officials sell the stuff under your watch.



but when they had the helm did they do anyhtign to create prosperity? No not a damm thing.


Well, for starters pushing for clean air, water and food. Remeber Bob Dole's attempt to increase the amount of fecal matter allowed in food? Or is cancer good for the economy?

It's not the government's job to 'promote prosperity' for the most part. But Gore was an early proponent and supporter of DARPA net, for instance, which led to the creation of the internet. The US Gov created (and spun off) a first rate weather service. The ability to predict weather would lend itself to economic efficiency.

I think I'll let the other folks on this board fight things out.

Cheers all!
 raverdad
Joined: 11/10/2004
Msg: 49
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 3/19/2006 11:24:40 AM

That's a mighty big stretch. If you claim to be a conservative, aren't you supposed to believe in 'personal responsibility?'


It's not a strecth at all sicne the SSA wa sapssed saivngs ahve gone down and are now in the negatives. What Bush did wa spsuh for a short time influx of credit into the economy to stall and reverse the recession. It worked.

[quote[You do remember the Iran Contra scandal don't you? With CIA hacks under Reagan selling crack cocaine in the inner cities to fund their operations. It's hard to get more pro-cocaine than actually letting governmemnt officials sell the stuff under your watch.

louis Farrakan what did you do with Mr Wiserd. Thats pure rubbish the CIA wa snot seelign crack in the inner city


Well, for starters pushing for clean air, water and food. Remeber Bob Dole's attempt to increase the amount of fecal matter allowed in food? Or is cancer good for the economy?


A law that was thnakfully never passed. But over regualtion is not good for the economy or do you think the lack od refineries leaidng to higher fule costs is good for the economy? Or massive forest fires caused by burn bans that allow fuel to build up.


It's not the government's job to 'promote prosperity' for the most part. But Gore was an early proponent and supporter of DARPA net, for instance


Pleas ename one perosn in govemrnet at the time who opposed DARPA. The Govemrne thas the job of defneding the country. Not only form enemies but agians things liek Tornadoes and hurricanes. This is not direct economic interferance.
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 50
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 3/19/2006 1:36:33 PM

It's not a strecth at all sicne the SSA wa sapssed saivngs ahve gone down and are now in the negatives. What Bush did wa spsuh for a short time influx of credit into the economy to stall and reverse the recession. It worked.


1. Correlation does not indicate causation.

2. I can buy on credit for a while and things will be temporarily better. But as long as Bush is increasing the debt, his strategy is short term.

3. You've still not addressed the fact that Bush was deliberately telling people to go out and spend rather than save. If you're a conservative, Bush doesn't share your values apparently.


Thats pure rubbish the CIA wa snot seelign crack in the inner city


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Contra

Do you know what the Iran Contra scandal involved?
Just curious.


But over regualtion is not good for the economy or do you think the lack od refineries leaidng to higher fule costs is good for the economy? Or massive forest fires caused by burn bans that allow fuel to build up.


The national forest service now allows naturally started fires to burn to take out underbrush. Earlier policies were a mistake.

"Over regulation" isn't good. But I'm naturally suspicious when any polititian refuses to give the details. Under regulation isn't good either, since it allows for fraudulent sales and economic externalities.


Pleas ename one perosn in govemrnet at the time who opposed DARPA.


I doubt many people in government even understood that ARPANET might have a civilian use, much less understood the technical aspects of the project. As far as they were concerned it was just a millitary project. So why would they oppose it?


The Govemrne thas the job of defneding the country. Not only form enemies but agians things liek Tornadoes and hurricanes.


Of course the government has the job of defending the country. No argument from me there. And also to defend against things like tornadoes and hurricanes, at least in terms of giving people good advance warning.

It also has a job to prevent your neighibor from dumping hazardous wastes into the groundwater which supplies your tap water, and insuring that building codes are up to standard before a nightclub full of people gets trapped in a fire or other disaster.

And in order to do that, you need organizations which can investigate matters and resolve them. There have been attempts to reduce environmental protections under the guise of 'deregulation.' That's what I'm concerned about.

I'm not saying that all deregulation is bad. Just that it's sometimes been used as a smokescreen to do things that people wouldn't otherwise want done. If polititians tell you they're 'deregulating' somthing and don't give specifics, it's worthwhile to be suspicious.
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 51
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 3/19/2006 3:21:14 PM

But over regualtion is not good for the economy or do you think the lack od refineries leaidng to higher fule costs is good for the economy?


If it gets us away from foreign oil, frankly I'm willing to stand the pain. We'll have to face it sooner or later. Our country has made buddies with a lot of foreign governments that I don't particularly like in order to keep the oil flowing. All forms of US transportation are already very highly subsidized. The quicker we reach a tipping point and get away from foreign gas and move to biodiesel, electric, or whatever next generation fuel is, the better off we'll be. At least with those fuels, there aren't just a small handful of suppliers that we have to rely on. So problems with one area of the country don't screw with the entire national economy, as with our petrol based economy. Diesel is easier to transport (slightly less flammable). And electric can be produced at a central location for greater efficiency and less polution (it's easier to install a scrubber on a factory than a car.)

I'd have bought a hybrid car already except that my grandpa stopped driving so my new car is his old one. But the next one will be somthing other than a standard gas guzzler for certain.
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 52
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 3/20/2006 4:32:52 PM
My bad too. It was Admiral James Richardson, not Eisenhower, who squeaked out of the Pearl Harbor post because he said it was too vulnerable and went into/was forced into early retirement in protest. That was nagging me for a while so I looked it up. He claimed that it was a 'goddamn mousetrap.'


And that's what you're doing. Thinking TOO much, just not seeing that if they're not stupid, they could have saved both countries alot of money.


Well, the question seemed to be whether Pearl Harbor was essentially a setup. I was doing what I could to contextualize the situation and the claims of the conspiracy theorists because they do have a legitamate historical case (a little more solid than I'd realized, to be honest), but I think that they overstate it. Few things in history are as cut and dried as we'd like them to be. In defense of the conspiracy theorists, there were a few people before Pearl Harbor who were truly very nervous about the vulnerabilities of ship placement there, including Admiral Husband Kimmel who took over the post and was eventually scapegoated for it (and later exonerated by congress). FDR was goading the Japanese into a war (putting them in a position where they either had to stop their imperialistic abitions in China and the Pacific or attack the US) We agree there. And he did that in order to get the US into WWII. Essentially what you were saying. Kimmel recounts that the US and Japan were essentially in an undeclared state of war. I don't believe that FDR nessicarily expected a surprise attack, or that he could control where the Japanese attacked. Maybe FDR maneuvered it. I could be wrong. I don't believe that FDR is responsible for killing the troops there any more than he's responsible for killing the troops he sent to Europe to fight. Leaders are in an unsavory and morally unacceptable position of deciding that one person must die now or else two more will later. If FDR hadn't acted as he did (goading the Japanese into war), many pacifists would have seen America as an agressor (which they were to a degree, but for good cause) and been against America's entry into the war and their resistance would have cost American and foreign lives. America needed all its resources and effort to transform from a peacetime economy to a wartime one. Before Pearl Harbor, the US didn't even have enough tanks to conduct troop exercises. Their millitary readiness was pitiful and most Americans were strongly anti-war. FDR could not have committed troops to fight Japan or Germany without Pearl Harbor.

Noone knew the Japanese had torpedoes that could attack in the shallow water of Pearl Harbor, so far as I know. A surprise attack by arial bombardment was hypothesized earlier, but many millitary men discounted its effectiveness in real life.

I doubt that FDR had the warning to Pearl Harbor deliberately delayed as was sometimes claimed by conspiracy theorists (and even by Kimmel himself). Every little mistake in the defence of P.H. is used to justify a massive conspiracy from the top. And Kimmel, being unfairly scapegoated, wanted to punch back at the people who scapegoated him (including FDR) to exonerate himself. A day or two delay in reporting troop movements due to weather problems seem much more deliberate when examined carefully, years after the event. Beuracracies screw up, involve delays, etc. And the military is a beuracracy.


as allowing OTHERS to die is no big deal to many many people.


Perhaps, but Roosevelt was starting a war, and doing so in the most politically effective way possible. It's impossible to start a fight without putting your own troops in harms way sooner or later. If Roosevelt hadn't acted as he did many more people would have died, American and otherwise. To refuse to confront Japan would have been as immoral as refusing to confront the Nazis. And just as self-destructive in the long run.


So are they just THAT stupid?


Have you ever worked in a corporation or beauracracy? The left hand often doesn't know what the right hand is doing half the time and hindsight is 20/20. I agree that the US goaded Japan into war by cutting off its oil and metal supplies. I'm less certain that the US expected a surprise attack, that Pearl Harbor was the expected target or, if so, that FDR realized that so much damage could have been done to the fleet there (via torpedos that could strike in shallow water.)
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 53
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 3/20/2006 9:34:12 PM

Republicans are happier for one simple reason.When you are usually on the right side of most issues it tends to put you in a good mood.


I remember back when Republicans preached on the evils of incumbancy. A number of folks got elected based on promises of obeying voluntary term limits. Think they honored those promises? Heh.

The Republican leadership has no ethics, no conscience and no memory. But it's appropriate this guy is named 'snowman.' He's gotten snowed.
 canadianbakeun
Joined: 1/9/2006
Msg: 54
Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 3/21/2006 2:44:31 AM
hey doc....i think a lot of military people figure pearl harbor for the target i just don't think they planned on the devastation....i am hoping that they would've figured in some sort of defense into their pearl harbor scenario......and i'm sure they didn't plan on the arizona...i don't know for sure but i think that one bomb resulted in about half of the fatalities on that day....but i think they figured they would be attacked....i think wis might be on to something....so there ya go....
 canadianbakeun
Joined: 1/9/2006
Msg: 55
Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 3/21/2006 12:57:13 PM
^^^^never heard it phrased quite that way...but i'll have to admit meat....i'm gonna have to agree with ya....(cowpie is bad right?)
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 56
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 3/21/2006 2:10:01 PM

I wish they would have just said "hey, these guys are about to take over all of Europe and are committing Genocide, once Europe and Asia is down, you know who's next, we should fight while everybody else still exists". But....I do understand where that would not be enough for some or even many Americans. (We're quite egotistical)


American WWI propaganda involved some serious over-the-top exaggerations about the brutality of Prussian soliders, etc. It had people saying just what you are "polititians lie to get us to do what they want (i.e. fight Germany.)"

Remember that Hitler was Time magazine's "man of the year." He had been praised as brilliant for reversing the (deliberate) inflation of the Weimar republic by a tactic as old
as the vikings; steal hard assets and use them to back the currency.


But....I do understand where that would not be enough for some or even many Americans. (We're quite egotistical)


And hell, noone wants to fight or die. Millitary conditions have traditionally been horrible, even without the risk of death.


I don't know, I just know if I were a president I would never let deaths occur if I could help it, but then again, I'll never be president, lol.


FDR was an arrogant egotistical sonofa****, but I don't know that he deliberatly let people die. You do have some folks like Mclellan (IIRC) in the civil war who were so afraid to put their troops in harms way that they failed to follow up an attack when they could have routed their enemy and basically couldn't fulfill his job as general.

I'm not trying to argue with you. I'm just trying to lay out my understanding of people's attitudes at the time.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 57
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 12/9/2007 10:57:03 AM
Ignorance is bliss
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 58
Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 12/9/2007 11:14:41 AM
Ouch.....thread zombie....

Still, it's likely to do with representation, not ideology. They feel better represented because, lets face it- they are- and thus, they happier.
 mjk21258
Joined: 10/20/2007
Msg: 59
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 12/9/2007 12:25:08 PM
Probably because Republicans are trying to run everyones lives.
 OneBlend
Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 60
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 12/17/2007 7:48:32 PM
Here you go Maxxronin ... point well taken.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ORM75G-Jby4&feature=related
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 61
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 12/27/2007 11:01:48 AM
Good post, Fireknight. One of the biggest reasons why Bush should have been disqualified to be commander in chief is the fact that he went AWOL from the National Guard. That is an insult to all of our men and women in uniform to have such an AWOL coward in the White House. Bush is a treasonous (unprintable).

It's one thing to not have been a veteran (Roosevelt--who was one of our best commanders in chief ever, or Clinton who legally deferred, registered upon graduation and then never was called) but it's totally another to go AWOL and shirk your responsibilities of service. This crazy war was cooked up to prove Bush's manliness after having gone AWOL and being branded a coward by so many.

No one who goes AWOL or is a deserter like Bush should ever be permitted to hold elected office.

Yes, conservatives seem happier because ignorance is bliss. I know a guy who is really conservative, but is middle class. The guy is as dumb as a rock and has n0 clue as to what's going on in the world.
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 62
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 12/28/2007 4:55:51 PM
Iwarrior is right!!

I know a guy who is working class yet is one of the most ardent Republicans I know. He is really unaware and ignorant of what is going on in the world, and I am appalled.

I agree that we need true progressives in power.
 lovableladywanted
Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 63
Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 12/28/2007 6:23:17 PM
Republicans happier than dems ??? lmao . Is this for real. You ever listen to how negative and miserable Michael Savage the homophobe behaves or Bill Oliely or Rush the druggie lmao. What about Sean"chickenhawk" Hannity or Mann Coulter. I can go on. These are the poster children for GOP and they are all such negative, nasty , insecure miserable people .
 IndigoPanda
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 64
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 12/30/2007 8:40:58 PM
I would agree that Republicans are happier than liberal Democrats. Liberal Democrats always want to take away things, like guns, freedoms, etc... and raise taxes. I have never seen a democrat sponsered bill, that did not raise taxes on something. Remember dems invented Class warfare and the race card.... Can we all not just get along????
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 65
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 12/31/2007 9:24:12 AM
Good retort, Grog!!

Liberal Dems like myself have no problem with hunting and legit uses of guns, but we do favor regulations to keep nutcases and people with criminal records from having guns. Please!! I like venison as much as the next guy or gal
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 66
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 12/31/2007 6:54:36 PM
The right wing conspired against Dan Rather for exposing the truth about Bush being an AWOL coward. I don't believe that anyone who goes AWOL should be allowed to run for elective office of any kind, especially for the presidency of the United States!!

Ignorance is bliss, as I can see with some of the silly remarks on here
 mjk21258
Joined: 10/20/2007
Msg: 67
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 1/2/2008 2:50:41 AM
From Raverdad.

I think it has more to do with vision. Republicans do things we don't jusr cry and ask why me. We have a cause get Roe v wade repealed, fix social security, lower taxes etc. The democrats don't have a vision for the future. They live in a crisis mindset and rush from crisis to criss rela or imagined and have conditioend htemselves into a stat eof perpetual victimhood. This is why they kepe losing elections. Amricans want hope and vision when they go to the polls. Chicken little and the sky is falling dosn't work anymore.

Hmmm those Republicans have accomplished alot haven't they, Roe v Wade isn't repealed yet, Social Security is no closer to being fixed,......... And Lower taxes don't fool yourself, sure they lowered the taxes, but at the same time drove the debt even further up, we are no paying half a billion a year in interest alone on the debt, that is more than any other expenditure in the annual budget with the exception of DOD and Health and Human Services. That is NOT the vision we need.
 lovableladywanted
Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 68
Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 1/2/2008 3:59:24 PM
LIBERAL- Ability to accept other peoples' viewpoints
May I suggest the brainwashed rush and sean lickers learn the definiton of big words like LIBERAL before they use them .
 designingwoman
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 69
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 1/2/2008 8:25:06 PM
I think you have that reversed, aila. Republicans are not smarter, or astute. The more conservative the Republican, the more irrational their viewpoints become. Democrats are much smarter, and more logical. The more left wing politicians actually have logical positions that deal with solving real problems such as universal health care instead of wasting time bickering over dumb stuff like gay marriage. Mitt the Nitwit Romney wasted our Legislature's time trying to get gay marriage banned after the court made it legal, thus neglecting the state's business that needed to be accomplished. Gov. Patrick has his hands full cleaning up the mess that Mitt the Nitwit left behind.
 lovableladywanted
Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 70
Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 1/3/2008 2:47:46 AM
^^^ I made it clear how miserable these right wing talking heads are on radio. They hold PITY PARTIES . Even if you agree with their sick viewpoints many times they express them in a negative way. Its psych 101, if you put others down you tend to have depression issues. SHOULDN'T THE SAME BE SAID OF HOW NASTY THESE RIGHTWING TALK SHOW HOSTS ARE ????
 exodusi1
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 71
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Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 1/3/2008 1:01:56 PM
Great point Mystyk

However, I think there might be some truth in the OP.

Republicans tend to be very self involved, consumed by accumulation of wealth and or material goods.

Liberals tend to be motivated by compassion and or justice, though neither is easily attained.

Thus, it is possible to satiate the needs of one's self, satisfying the basic human nature or animal instincts. However, Liberals have a hard time achieving their goals. Moreover, if one is more sensitive or has a conscience, it is harder to recover from personal setbacks.
 lovableladywanted
Joined: 5/14/2006
Msg: 72
Republicans Are Happier Than Democrats
Posted: 1/3/2008 2:18:27 PM
Exactly mystic. On npr they have a call in show and the host is very left but lets others call in that disagree and discusses in a calm manner... yet the right wing hosts pontificate , name call and use the dump button way too often with someone that has a different viewpoint, even if that person is talking calmly.
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