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Show ALL Forums  > Manitoba  > abuse of authority      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 juan mo oclock
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 326
abuse of authorityPage 14 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)
uhhmmmm, to quote a very learned friend....wow,just, wow...........
 printer2
Joined: 6/19/2007
Msg: 327
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/10/2008 3:33:30 PM
Makes the Taser thread seem tame.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 328
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/10/2008 8:12:25 PM

Third offense 10-20 years imprisonment.


Whoa whoa whoa, hold on there a moment. If we're gonna lock them up for 10-20 years for their 3rd offence, how much is that gonna cost us? We better make their food/meals the responsibility of their friends & family ( why should we have to pay to feed them). And have them spend the time in their cells ( ok maybe an hour a day in an exercise yard), with access to books. No cable, no TV, no internet, and no university courses paid for by the taxpayers. If they can't read, then we can include reading lessons.

Then it'll be a good plan
 ur_addiction
Joined: 11/6/2008
Msg: 329
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/11/2008 9:57:16 PM

That is a huge part of the problem, we are not responsible for our actions even as adults. First offense beating. Second offense public whipping. Third offense 10-20 years imprisonment. If they haven't learned after the first 2 times they plan on not learning, they shouldn't be allowed a fourty time so if it comes around to that execute him/her.
How many people would be so willing to consistently break the laws if they knew there was a definate and invasive punishment. Maybe we should bring back the stocks and such to clean this mess up. Start punishing the families of these people and see how that works. By that i mean imprisoning their mothers or fathers etc. Fines are no deterrent and just letting them go and asking them to be good guys hasn't worked and probably won't. The old ways proved themselves to work.


Wow, I did'nt think my JOKE would cause such a fuss....lol, People need to calm down!....Honestly there are FAR worse crimes being done out there...(and No im not saying that in that case its okay for people to get away with minor crimes).And I stand by the fact I would hit someone back if they ever hit my friend.

I dont condole violence, but if somone is going to star $hit, I'll be finishing it. (I try my best to talk through problems and I have Never been in a fight).

Once agian, I NEVER start conflicts. Just when the time comes and talking through it doesnt work, and the person becomes violent. Well then, you gotta show them thats not acceptable.
 Fort Garry Dark
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 330
view profile
History
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/11/2008 10:05:04 PM

we are not responsible for our actions even as adults. First offense beating. Second offense public whipping. Third offense 10-20 years imprisonment. If they haven't learned after the first 2 times they plan on not learning, they shouldn't be allowed a fourty time so if it comes around to that execute him/her.
How many people would be so willing to consistently break the laws if they knew there was a definate and invasive punishment. Maybe we should bring back the stocks and such to clean this mess up. Start punishing the families of these people and see how that works. By that i mean imprisoning their mothers or fathers etc. Fines are no deterrent and just letting them go and asking them to be good guys hasn't worked and probably won't. The old ways proved themselves to work.


He's just talking about what happens if you violate the rules for posting on POF. Don't pay it no mind - but remember NO CHIT CHAT on here or else!
 thorndyke
Joined: 11/5/2005
Msg: 331
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/12/2008 8:04:55 PM
True, no vigilante incitement folks - wouldn't do to drag us down to the level of Batman or the Punisher (the good one where John Travolta played the villian) and the Spirit (coming soon to a theater near you!)
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 332
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/12/2008 8:09:52 PM

True, no vigilante incitement folks - wouldn't do to drag us down to the level of Batman or the Punisher (the good one where John Travolta played the villian) and the Spirit (coming soon to a theater near you!)


No, vigilanteism is wrong. But we could use Judge Dredd ( the comic character, not the Stallone portrayal). And The Spirit looks like a good one ( also, Thw Watchmen is out in March).
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 333
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/12/2008 8:18:14 PM
I would rather see a less forgiving legal system, such as a judge like Judge Roy Bean. Now I will admit he did hang people for some strange reasons, but very few criminals actually escaped the rope.

In addition, I would like to see the jails be like the US Prison Warden, who makes inmates work for their keep, eat as the military does while being deployed and only to have the bare necessities. Now to me that is better than the Holiday Inn many inmates are living here, where they live better than people who are law abiding and work at low paying jobs.
 paladin_
Joined: 1/29/2006
Msg: 334
view profile
History
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/12/2008 11:37:19 PM
Today I read in the Winnipeg free press Dec 12 page A5 (Remorseless boy sentenced to 8 months)

He is a level 4 car thief that ran over a police officer and said “what’s the big deal, so what if I ran over a couple of cops?”

“Excuse me” but this makes me sick. It makes me sick and tired of our nambi pambi justice system.

This should have been attempted murder. When as Canadians are we going to say enough is enough!

Of course the so called (Experts) would say that it’s not his fault, because after all he did not have good parents and grew up in poverty and his layer will use ever other excuse in the book to try to get him off the hook .
And this is suppose to some how justifies his actions to steal a car that dose not belong to him and try to kill people innocent people including a police officer just for “the fun of it”.

I think is high time that Canada adopts the European style justice system that forces rehabilitation and re-education on people whom are incarcerated.

Its vary simple criminal are given the opportunity to complete their education to the grade 12 level and are giving the opportunity to learn the top 20 most in-demand trades of employment. IE. Constructions workers, carpenters, brick layers, plumbers, auto mechanic, electricians, and ect…
they also under go treatment for additions, anger management, sensitivity training ect and are taught that they are not the victim… and upon their release they are placed in a job setting where they can earn a good wage for an honest days work.

But there is a catch...

un-like in Canada They do not have the right to say NO! to this program... And if they do not complete their training then they do not get release from incarceration. They remain in jail until they complete their course with a passing grade of (C+) GPA average.
This system has a 98% Non re-offend success average compared to Canada that is less then 50% average

And for the other 2% in Europe that do not want to learn, they say in a place where they cant hurt anyone.
 sweetmbn
Joined: 11/7/2008
Msg: 335
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/13/2008 4:00:58 AM
It sounds like the European system could work well with the combination of food services of military deployment... Combination of two systems sounds great. People would then have the motivation to work to get out.
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 336
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 7:13:06 AM
I have always believed that prisons should be run by the military. The military has a way to deal with non-conformance and misues of actions based on rules and protocol. I think if life in jail was hard work, and demanding, instead of being a "criminal university" where criminals could learn to improve their criminal skills, or go to avoid working, I believe there would be less repeat offenders. If prison life was military life and some kind of "basic training" that new recruits go through, with some kind of sweat equity for the criminals to make up for their acts against society. I have never believed that we properly utilize the skills and talents of the military.

I think young offenders would also benefit from an involvement with the military in a sort of boot camp while being rehabilitated through the military way. I believe an opportunity to belong and be respected as in the militay, would eliminate the need for young people to be drawn to gangs, as they lack a sense of belonging. This would provide an alternitive to gang recruitment for those who grew up in bad homes with bad parents.

Once the criminals learned respect and demonstrated their ability to live within the rules of society, they would then be given an opportunity to better themselves by enlisting in the military, and learning trades/skills that would earn them respect and a living in the military and in society. If going to jail/prison was not an easy life and if criminals were made to be productive, I dont think it would take criminals long to figure out that they had a choice to eith work for repayment to society for their unacceptable bahavior and criminal actions, or, learn a trade/skill and work for themselves by being a productive member of society or serving in the military. Personally I dont think we offer enough choices to those who break the law. I absolutely hate the nanny bleeding hearts who think its ok to just ignore and not tgruly rehabilitate those by not having expectations from people who commit crimes and allow them to continue to live outside the law, with no regard or respect for the rules of society.
 peek~a~booo
Joined: 1/3/2007
Msg: 337
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 8:57:46 AM
hahaha...goodone..i said this in a tread before....cut off the lil clowns hand..a prosthetic is much cheaper than prison and will give the human insite to appreciate
having the other one still to wipe there own azz.
if you just joy riding only remove the fingers...so they can learn to wipe azz with just hand no fingers....
or
load it into a cargo plane and let them take a course on mine removal...here you like trubble...go have fun with all the violence you seem to crave....give tooth brush to clean boys boots. let them go pick up body parts at a boming site. let them learn what real violence is and than they can compare to there hard done by lives.
yes...lets do that...and if mommy stands cryin...toss her in the plane to.
 OhNoItsDano
Joined: 11/3/2008
Msg: 338
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 9:50:23 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^...and this is the true meaning of Christmas little Johnny and Suzie!
 peek~a~booo
Joined: 1/3/2007
Msg: 339
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 10:28:30 AM
Indeed, i still remember being a single mom suporting a child on 8.25 an hour and having to live in manitoba housing and paying my rent and having the neibours party all week and than have their cousins friends steal and take my car 3 times...
that deductable took christmas off the table for my child when she was young...those people need a one way ticket to afganistan.

to think they use poverty as an excuse is an insult to poverty indeed.

having your car stolen 3 times within 60 days does change your additude...yep

wonder why people give up...cuz our government makes excuses for bad conduct with poverty . sorry i have lived poverty most of my life ...i have not had a need to send my kid out car jacking...roar. I have not needed the excuse of pretending my child does not know to stop and pay attention when a uniform has control either.
how long do these people expect to sell those lies and excuse themself from the responsibility to set boundries for there spawn...and when will the government start
rewarding parents who actually do?
 thorndyke
Joined: 11/5/2005
Msg: 340
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 11:19:40 AM
The armed forces are a selective service - don't think they'd want to admit some of these turkeys.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 341
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 6:51:59 PM
Whoa whoa whoa, hold on there a moment. If we're gonna lock them up for 10-20 years for their 3rd offence, how much is that gonna cost us? We better make their food/meals the responsibility of their friends & family ( why should we have to pay to feed them). And have them spend the time in their cells ( ok maybe an hour a day in an exercise yard), with access to books. No cable, no TV, no internet, and no university courses paid for by the taxpayers. If they can't read, then we can include reading lessons

Sorry to scare you Susancd but my idea of imprisonment is more like that of Haywiresue's. These guys could be put to work building roads, twinning the transcanada through Ontario and BC. Sleeping in tents not condos. Living on sustenance not steak. Give them lots of saltpeter rather than have the government supply them rooms for their tramp girlfriends. Visitation 1 half hour per month no exceptions. The list goes on but hey it's all a dream until we eliminate the johns hopkins or howard or whatever they call themselves society and other candy assed liberal/ndp institutions established to destroy decent society.
 romanticoptimist
Joined: 10/1/2007
Msg: 342
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 7:35:40 PM
Paladin: I'm all for Education as a tool to reduce recidivism, but what's this "European prison system" you refer to and praise so highly? Unless I'm very mistaken, "Europe" is a collection of nations, and each national has their own national penal system. Or did they all combine? And if they did, do they have any info on the Internet? Thanks

Three strikes = life imprisonment? Check the boys to the South. They have it. It doesn't work as a deterrent. As an expensive way to warehouse humans? Sure. it works great. The thing is the Canadian penal system is based on rehabilitation and restoration and not punishment and revenge. Now if you can convince sufficient MPs and the Supreme Court to change it that you can bring back all that "good old stuff that worked" like floggings, public executions, chopping of hands, breaking legs, public beatings, sterilization, and castration. Hey, maybe we could put out a tender for some enterprising ship owners to take anyone who steals a loaf of bread and dump them on some God-forsaken island and let them figure it out for themselves. Who's with me?

Did anyone bother to check Canada recidivism rate? Recidivism rates are always a good indicator of whether a justice and penal system is working. The idea is that the less people re-offend, the better the system. According to Corrections Canada, the recidivism rate for short-term offenders is consistently around 3.8-4%, for long-term offenders 5%, and for the whole group 4.2%. Note that these rates include any return to prison including a technical violation of day parole or work release. If you want to consider US Recidivism rates to see if their "three strikes" rule or harsher prison conditions and harsher sentencing works, you might have problems. US Recidivism rates are around 10-12%.

How about the Restorative Justice model? You know, the one that seeks to find a community-oriented solution in an attempt to prevent re-offending and to bring a restorative rather than punitive conclusion to the criminal and the victims of the crime, to make the criminal pay back the victim and the community rather than do violence to the criminal? Isn't it "soft" on criminals? Wouldn't beating the crap out of them on a daily basis work much better?
Based on 46 studies with nearly 23,000 participants, restorative justice programs, on average, were associated with a decrease of three percent in recidivism. Contrary to expectations, the programs were more effective with adults (8% reduction) than with youth (2% reduction). Providing some form of restitution to victims was the activity most associated with reductions in offender recidivism.
Source: "Restorative justice and recidivism" (Public Safety Canada), http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/res/cor/sum/cprs200301_1-eng.aspx

How about our fair city? Are we soft? Does the Restorative Justice model work here or would we be better off flogging them all in front of City Hall? Here you go. From the same source/study:
A evaluation of a restorative justice program in the city of Winnipeg was conducted... followed the offenders for three years after completing the program. The program participants were compared to a group of probationers with similar offence and criminal history characteristics but who did not participate in the restorative justice program.

The offenders who participated in the restorative justice program had lower recidivism rates than the matched group of probationers. With each year during the follow-up the differences in recidivism rates for the two groups widened. At the first year, the restorative justice offenders had a recidivism rate of 15% compared to 38% for the probation group. At the second year the respective rates were 28% and 54% and by the third year the rates were 35% and 66%.
Not 100%, but not too bad. Certainly worth supporting IMHO.

Are the courts "soft" on criminals?
Canada’s prison statistics reflect a rising use of criminal law. Since the mid 1980s, this country’s incarceration rate has become one of the highest among Western-style democracies, second only to the US. More and more people are going to jail, but crime rates have been dropping.
Source:http://www.safety-council.org/info/community/crime.html
 ur_addiction
Joined: 11/6/2008
Msg: 343
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 7:59:27 PM

hahaha...goodone..i said this in a tread before....cut off the lil clowns hand..a prosthetic is much cheaper than prison and will give the human insite to appreciate
having the other one still to wipe there own azz.
if you just joy riding only remove the fingers...so they can learn to wipe azz with just hand no fingers....
or
load it into a cargo plane and let them take a course on mine removal...here you like trubble...go have fun with all the violence you seem to crave....give tooth brush to clean boys boots. let them go pick up body parts at a boming site. let them learn what real violence is and than they can compare to there hard done by lives.
yes...lets do that...and if mommy stands cryin...toss her in the plane to.


WTF is this??? are you serious? l hope your just being an ass. I would never want anything like that done to someone. What is this africa where you get your hands cut off for stealing a loaf of bread? WTF?? That was disturbing..

See I mentioned beating somone, not killing or stabbing/cutting or ANYTHING like that. See, my thought was id beat up somone who hurt one of my buds, Viloence still, but not to a crazy extreame......And like I previously stated b4 about cops beating up a rapist, that i would not make a HUGE deal about, but if they stabbed him or cut his****off or something like that, Id be like WTF!!?.... At least by beating somone they can heal (unless you really beat the crap outa them) ..oh man, f****
 ur_addiction
Joined: 11/6/2008
Msg: 344
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 8:17:47 PM

Today I read in the Winnipeg free press Dec 12 page A5 (Remorseless boy sentenced to 8 months)

He is a level 4 car thief that ran over a police officer and said “what’s the big deal, so what if I ran over a couple of cops?”

“Excuse me” but this makes me sick. It makes me sick and tired of our nambi pambi justice system.

This should have been attempted murder. When as Canadians are we going to say enough is enough!

Of course the so called (Experts) would say that it’s not his fault, because after all he did not have good parents and grew up in poverty and his layer will use ever other excuse in the book to try to get him off the hook .
And this is suppose to some how justifies his actions to steal a car that dose not belong to him and try to kill people innocent people including a police officer just for “the fun of it”.

I think is high time that Canada adopts the European style justice system that forces rehabilitation and re-education on people whom are incarcerated.

Its vary simple criminal are given the opportunity to complete their education to the grade 12 level and are giving the opportunity to learn the top 20 most in-demand trades of employment. IE. Constructions workers, carpenters, brick layers, plumbers, auto mechanic, electricians, and ect…
they also under go treatment for additions, anger management, sensitivity training ect and are taught that they are not the victim… and upon their release they are placed in a job setting where they can earn a good wage for an honest days work.

But there is a catch...

un-like in Canada They do not have the right to say NO! to this program... And if they do not complete their training then they do not get release from incarceration. They remain in jail until they complete their course with a passing grade of (C+) GPA average.
This system has a 98% Non re-offend success average compared to Canada that is less then 50% average

And for the other 2% in Europe that do not want to learn, they say in a place where they cant hurt anyone.


“what’s the big deal, so what if I ran over a couple of cops?”
wow thats horrible....poor cops man see this is the shit they gotta watch out for when they are on the job, which is why I respect them (most of them) as well as many other jobs...And even if they were not cops, its still sick that he doesnt care.

I think It is also a good idea to, adopts the European style justice system that forces rehabilitation and re-education on people whom are incarcerated.

Im pretty sure there are some men and women in jail who DO regret what they have done and DO want to change. But in all honesty you cant force anyone to change thier ways, they are going to have to realize it themselfs and WANT to change.

Also the part about the boy not having the best family and etc...BOOO ****in HOOO...heres a tissue for your issue. Dont give you the okay to go and hurt others and steal. I HATE ppl that do thing bc 'oh well I was poor and didnt have a daddy, etc etc" .

True, what we see and learn in our early stages of developement, affect how we grow up. BUT its not the only reason. (ive taken psychology, so I do understand how the mind grown and past things when we were young do effect us as adults)

I had a bad home like when I was little (dad and mom had many issues in thier relationship) and Ive gone through a lot too in my life and Seen drugs and many other things around me...YET! , Ive never stolen anything in my life, never tried even a Puff of a cigarette or a joint, and Never tried any drugs. ALSO I dont drink. first drink was when I was 17 years of age,with my dad and bf before highschool grad. I had a long island icetea lol and since the first sip of booze ive only had like 7 drinks in totally up to now. I also have never been drunk...I stoped drinking about 3 years ago.

So I say, F U to thoes who bame parents and ppl around them.....Your not 5 anymore, the choice is yours!!!
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 345
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 8:21:25 PM

At least by beating somone they can heal (unless you really beat the crap outa them) ..oh man, f****



They may heal on the outside but the hurt inside never goes away, it may lessen but it is there for life. Guilt is like that also, so before you decide to beat someone know that you will live with this knowledge for the rest of your life. Was it justified or do you pretend to justify it for your piece of mind? We all have our ghosts, some more than others some worse than others but we all must live with them.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 346
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 8:27:02 PM

The armed forces are a selective service - don't think they'd want to admit some of these turkeys.


They can use them to find landmines & IEDs.
 Dudleyh45
Joined: 8/4/2008
Msg: 347
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 8:36:51 PM

The thing is the Canadian penal system is based on rehabilitation and restoration and not punishment and revenge. Now if you can convince sufficient MPs and the Supreme Court to change it that you can bring back all that "good old stuff that worked" like floggings, public executions, chopping of hands, breaking legs, public beatings, sterilization, and castration. Hey, maybe we could put out a tender for some enterprising ship owners to take anyone who steals a loaf of bread and dump them on some God-forsaken island and let them figure it out for themselves. Who's with me?


I was there but you lost me with the bread man. That's food and food is a necessary item for life so that dude/dudette that steals food he has no reason to be in any society and that means execution. Why waste funds on someone who is trying to force you into starvation.
 romanticoptimist
Joined: 10/1/2007
Msg: 348
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/14/2008 11:38:43 PM
No worry, dudley. It was "irony". Think England and how the English populated much of Australia. It might help. Or read some Charles D ickens.
 ur_addiction
Joined: 11/6/2008
Msg: 349
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/15/2008 6:45:04 AM

They may heal on the outside but the hurt inside never goes away, it may lessen but it is there for life. Guilt is like that also, so before you decide to beat someone know that you will live with this knowledge for the rest of your life. Was it justified or do you pretend to justify it for your piece of mind? We all have our ghosts, some more than others some worse than others but we all must live with them.


Now WHY would I feel guilty? (honestly I woudlnt) I really dont think you stop and actually take the time to understand what I say when I make my post, maybe you should. "Was it justified or do you pretend to justify it for your piece of mind?", what are you a philosopher now? Pfttt!!!

Seems to me all you do is reply to other ppls post and bash them. You never really give your own personal opionion to what would you do if you were in the situation. So I ask you, Wtf, would yo do if somone beat the crap out of one of your chick friends for no reason (at the bar) or if somone raped her? you wouldnt find that person and kick thier ass? What would you just seriously call the cops and let them handle it 100%?
 ur_addiction
Joined: 11/6/2008
Msg: 350
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/15/2008 6:47:52 AM
Ahhhh slightly understand now, Right wing and old fairly old fashioned.
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