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Show ALL Forums  > Manitoba  > abuse of authority      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 116
abuse of authorityPage 9 of 17    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17)

Sure stealing is wrong. But some people in this world are denied the natural free rights, others are born with.


I'm curious, just exactly what are " natural free rights" ?? We are thinking/intelligent animals ( ok jury may still be out on this point ), we form societies, and these societies evolve rights of their citizens. The "rights" aren't a naturally occuring thing, they are decided, debated, and selected. Thus the US had slavery for a time, then it was decided by the majority that slavery was wrong, and the system "corrected" itself. Later it was decided that blacks could vote, marry caucasians, attend the same schools etc etc. These rights weren't a natural phenomenon.

"Natural free rights" is a fallacy, as is "animal rights".
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 117
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/16/2008 11:11:49 PM

2 wrongs never make a right..


True, but neither does 1 wrong, hence if someone punched you in the face I'm sure you would retaliate, or at least have the authorities intervene in some way. Turning the other cheek only works if the other person thinks as you do.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 118
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/16/2008 11:15:57 PM

Youths go to jail and come out worse.


OK then I guess the solution is to not let them out once incarcerated.



Building a jail for young offenders would not work..


It works in some cases. If it doesn't work it is because the offender is making the wrong choices, and will eventually pay the consequences. Maybe the solution is a work camp/boot camp in some remote location, so if they want to escape they can go, and die in the wilderness....

What do you suggest we do with them? Just tel them they're being bad and send them on their way?
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 119
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/17/2008 8:25:57 AM

Natural Free Rights probably means "we hold these things to be self-evident,that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights"


As I said in my post, these rights aren't "natural free rights", they are created by society. The quote you gave was used by the americans in the preamble ( to the Declaration of Independence or their constitution? I can't remember) and only applied to americans, not the human race... hell, it didn't even apply to all americans equally when it was adopted, hence the slavery & women not having the vote as examples.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 120
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/17/2008 9:29:12 AM
^^^ very true, but as I said earlier, we're just animals, the "rights" aren't an aspect of our existence until we started forming tribes, societies etc then had to develop codes of conduct for our interactions.

If we were living in a feral state, the only "natural rights" would be survival of the fittest & might makes right. ( I'm not advocating we live like this, just making a point).


I (like many others) believe that "society", "government", and various legal systems don't give or grant humans "rights" because those "rights" already exist


So gay couples have the natural right to marry, and the government of California has enacted laws to circumvent that right? ( and before anyone jumps up & says this isn't a legitimate example because being "gay" isn't natural, chimpanzees & penguins form gay partnerships too)
 Refinedsillyguy
Joined: 5/4/2008
Msg: 121
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/17/2008 4:22:21 PM
Haha.. well move to winnipeg, grow watching he youth change.. And you will see. Im pretty sure Most of thread was about the youths...At least it was my intention.

You just love to argue don't you..So why aren't you a lawyer..?

Sorry, I don't have enough time to go reading up on youths. Maybe if I was studying something related. Hey thx. I take it into consideration..

For someone ,who told another person. All they did was pick apart, and comment on others threads like they were trying to agitate someone. You really know what to look for..

I won't go into detail. On anything. I not on here to argue.

Oh what i meant by natural rights. The rights we are born with..
Freedom, health, wealth. all which apply to animals..

If People are born into the world, without a chance at living these natural rights. It is because too many people in the world are greedy.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 122
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/17/2008 5:27:41 PM

You just love to argue don't you..So why aren't you a lawyer..?


I don't mind a good argument, long as the participants realize that someone not agreeing with their point of view isn't necessarily a personal attack.


Oh what i meant by natural rights. The rights we are born with..
Freedom, health, wealth. all which apply to animals..

If People are born into the world, without a chance at living these natural rights. It is because too many people in the world are greedy.


Not sure what wealth animals are born with. And health isn't a right,in any way I can see. These can be conditions we strive for and wish for all, but they aren't rights, and especially aren't "natural" rights.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 123
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/17/2008 7:01:35 PM

Oh what i meant by natural rights. The rights we are born with..
Freedom, health, wealth. all which apply to animals..

Oh to be young and idealistic again


Yeah, even withthe US's stating "all men are created equal" they don't guarantee health & wealth, just life, liberty, & the "pursuit of happiness", meaning you have the right to go out there & try to suceed & be happy, but it isn't a right, just the pursuit is.
 Refinedsillyguy
Joined: 5/4/2008
Msg: 124
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/17/2008 7:21:23 PM
Well in my opinion. a animal born into a very poor country is going to have less fertile land to graze on, and be less healthy, and not the freedom to roam around as much. in some cases..
So you could say it got it's wealth from the grazing grounds, and health from the grazing grounds.
Same with people, the quality of life, depends on where their born...
and i feel. We are born with a right to be healthy, have the oppurnity to wealth, and live in a society that embraces freedom..
We would have such wealthy animals then..ahhahah
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 125
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/17/2008 8:52:36 PM

Well in my opinion. a animal born into a very poor country is going to have less fertile land to graze on, and be less healthy, and not the freedom to roam around as much. in some cases..


Possibly, but oh well, life isn't fair. It isn't that the universe is cruel, it's just indifferent.
 juan mo oclock
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 126
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/17/2008 11:05:32 PM
uhhhmmmm ,the thread is abuse of authourity, not rights of the individual........icey or ur or whoever, try to at least skim thru the thread to get an idea of the original intent.............and you old guys, shame on you baiting the younguns.............
 juan mo oclock
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 127
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/19/2008 12:11:55 PM
so this anderson dude on jubilee that shot the cops, do you think if the cops had not beat the crap outta him, the appeal wouldn't have a leg to stand on?..............never mind the emotional trauma the cops were going thru when their own are wounded and felt justified to inflict injury as warranted to "subdue him".............this is what is meant by following standard operating procedure so as to dot the i's and cross the t's to ensure such technicalities do not result in mistrials.........................as for the cops saying they required to use such force to subdue him, well maybe i can believe their word as much as a popcorn machine mechanic............................again, with cameras on the police during on duty hours, the truth would be a matter of recorded fact.............is it possible the cops abused their authourity after the perp was in custody?.....................
 juan mo oclock
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 128
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/19/2008 11:10:16 PM
yea,yea, drugs are bad and cops are heros, i get it..........now as to the original questions.........will thier actions in beating the suspect, after the fact, resulting in possible technacalities ,an abuse of their authourity?............and would cameras be beneficial?
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 129
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/20/2008 9:30:08 PM
Humans are not animals. That's why we call ourselves "humans".


We are animals, just that we use more tools than other species.... and maybe the other animals call themselves something else too.


The "rights" I referred to are "inherent", "self-evident". They exist. They just "are" -- and they are prior to any recognition, awareness, or agreement to protect or recognize them.


What are these "self evident" rights? And I bet any right you can present won't be recognized as a "right" by some group.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 130
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/20/2008 9:34:29 PM
so this anderson dude on jubilee that shot the cops, do you think if the cops had not beat the crap outta him, the appeal wouldn't have a leg to stand on?


Well, the mistake they made was not blowing his dang head off at the house; but the a-hole saying he was defending himself was bee ess; hands up, how many people here keep a shotgun & ammunition in their bathroom in case of home invasion?

If I remember correctly, the anderson dude lost a cpl fingers in the shoot out; if the cops weren't gonna use lethal force they should have at least taken him to the station & booked him ( taking their time) and only taken him for medical treatment afterwards ( and after a nice donut break).

If anyone has a general beef with the police and their conduct, then feel free to call your local drug dealer instead of 911 when there's an emergency; thus avoiding the nasty ole policeman.....
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 131
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/21/2008 12:10:51 AM
I don't mind disagreeing ( if everyone agreed with everything it'd be a boring world), but I noticed you didn't ( or couldn't) list a few of these "self evident" rights as examples


This should probably be a thread of it's own.
 juan mo oclock
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 132
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/21/2008 5:52:42 PM
ever been questioned by a cop where they thought you were a suspect?...............
 juan mo oclock
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 133
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/21/2008 11:02:47 PM
and who would start off with f u pig?.............unless the cop is abusive to begin with but whenever i have been in contact with the police i have always been polite only to have it degenerate with unprofessional attitudes on their parts........course some ppl are just better than others and so much more refined i guess.............
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 134
abuse of authority
Posted: 12/22/2008 9:34:44 AM

Then again, I tend to lead with , "Good evening Officer. How can I help you ?" and "Sure. Here's my driver's license. Will that do?" I find it leads to clearer communication than, "F@ck You PIG!!!!!!!!" But that's just me.


Reminds me of an incident with me & a couple friends driving across the border into the US for a weekend of shopping etc.

Just so you know,when the US customs officer asks :

"Any firearms in the vehicle?"

A really bad answer is "I'm not sure."

My friend had been hunting a couple days earlier, and when asked wasn't 100% sure all the rifles were removed from the truck; he didn't wanna say no and then have them find one if they searched the vehicle, and didn't want to say yes and not be able to produce the weapon, so he answered honestly
 juan mo oclock
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 135
abuse of authority
Posted: 3/25/2009 10:22:41 AM
so if you been watching the bc inquiry into the death of the polish amn at van. airport the video has shown a different story than what the officers on duty were telling..........now it is commmon knowledge that eyewitness accounts are not very accurate at the best of times and yet the courts hold an officers testimony in high regaurd compared to a regular citizens.............now would the tetimony of theses officers be believed over eyewitness accounts if the video were not avalilable?............there was the recent tasering of a 15 year old girl, maybe video eveidence would show a differnet story................i myself beleieve it is high time ALL police interaction is recorded for the protection of society so as to weed out the bs and shorten court times.................show of hands for having big brother watched so as to prevent them abusing their authourity.................
 juan mo oclock
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 136
abuse of authority
Posted: 3/25/2009 12:11:58 PM
actually if given the chance the authourities would like to have toatal surveilance..............look at england, the most recorded populace on earth.............as a mtter of fact it was their own surveilance that proved the brazilian electician killed by the police was the downfall of the police chief at the time..............course it took a citizen to blow the whistle................seen this on a segment of 16x9 on tv recently.............and please try to add something constructive instead of the usual call a criminal crap or if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear rhetoric, unless you feel the powers that be should live by the the credo, which means being recorded shouldn't be a problem for them.............
 flyin-high
Joined: 10/28/2007
Msg: 137
view profile
History
abuse of authority
Posted: 3/25/2009 12:37:28 PM
Just as I thought this thread was forgotten… the cops go off and taser a kid.

In defense of the police, they never know who their dealing with, she may have had martial arts training… she could have been the North End version of Bruce Lee with tits.
 juan mo oclock
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 138
abuse of authority
Posted: 3/25/2009 12:43:02 PM
gone but not forgotten...........would've started a seperate thread but the right wing delete nazis are always at work...............and really isn't the use of excessive force an abuse?.............now flying, what's your take on big/little brother surveillance?........always enjoy your take on things, even when your wrong
 juan mo oclock
Joined: 3/19/2008
Msg: 139
abuse of authority
Posted: 5/6/2009 12:50:42 PM
finally it's here and from the same people that tase ya................ http://gizmodo.com/5180317/taser-axon-cops-goes-fp

wonder what the cops will feel like having their supervisor watching every move.........\

still should go along way to clearing up " misunderstandings".................
 haywiresue
Joined: 9/27/2006
Msg: 140
abuse of authority
Posted: 8/17/2009 3:09:41 PM
Awwww Steamer, that is kind of mean. Did you and Oops! get all those doors hung? If so, what is your new excuse? LOL.

I know from my HR experience, not all people in an organization get along and over time, this creates problems and reduced work by an employee is a red flag waving. I would never say anything anything negative against an employee as some managers/supervisors have bad attitudes. This is not to say that all workers are good, or have great attitudes, as we all know they don't.

If I was used as a reference for someone who I could not give a good reference due to a personality clash or this person just didn't reach expectations, I would say that this particular employee was not conducive to the company/department's dynamics. It does not say they are a crappy worker, it just says that the fit wasn't right for this particular staff member in this organization. If the person calling pressed, I would say that I would not prefer to comment, as not all people work out in all organizations, and everyone is entitled to earn a living. This was just not as positive of an outcome as both the employee and us had wished for.

Now if someone was let go due to missing a lot of work, being constantly late, I would say something about it, as I am giving my word and that is important.
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