Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 674
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?Page 8 of 33    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33)

but people who actually marry because of love, compatibility, singing the same song from the same book, have set healthy boundaries etc etc etc, ( which is rare I might add) doesn't need one.


Contradicts


Question, why do most people get married? answer because they claim they are in love at that moment, not realizing as time goes on people change, and some folks cannot for what ever reason embrace change.


Paragraph 1 is bad advice because paragraph 2 is correct. No matter how much you think you might be doing the right thing, or are 'in love' or whatever, things can change so it is always a good idea to get a prenup.
 daydreamin_honey
Joined: 12/30/2008
Msg: 677
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:41:24 AM
I don't have an option in all honesty. I have to protect my children before any man. I have a great deal of inheritance when my mother passes away and it is meant to see my children thru college since i'm already an adult. I can't risk jeopardizing their futures because I was impulsive. And i'm also set to inherit my family's 100+ yr old farm... that's something that MUST stay in MY family.
So yes, there WILL be a pre-nup or I will be not be marrying again.
 BACHELOR02
Joined: 8/9/2009
Msg: 680
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 10:33:01 AM
A pre-nup is a must, if you live in an equal property state, like NY or FL, where your wife can screw the mailman and still walk away with half (or more) your worldly goods.
I'm also in favor of bringing back the dowry. My guess is all the women out there who brought nothing to the table when they got married will be vehemently opposed to this one! I'm sure the responses on this one will be pretty much divided along gender lines.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 681
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 10:39:20 AM

I'm also in favor of bringing back the dowry.

That's the first thing I think of when I hear some woman going on about how "traditional" she is all of a sudden.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 684
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 10:59:14 AM
Basically, what a lot of you are implying [by saying you need a prenup to protect your ass-ets] is that you have crap judgement. You can't tell if a person is honorable or not. so you're banking on them BEING dishonorable by forcing them to sign this prenup. Does that not seem like a slap in the face? It does to me, an honorable human being.
 boinkboinkboink
Joined: 3/20/2009
Msg: 689
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 12:17:02 PM
What so many people who are against prenupts fail to see is how brutal and vindictive we can all be when we are hurt, angry and feel betrayed. This isn't something you can possibly understand unless you have personally experienced divorce or witnessed someone close to you going through divorce.

During a seperation, honour, empathy, consideration, are, more often then not, completely thrown out the window and people chase the only thing they can get: things, money etc. Women are VERY guilty of this whether or not they choose to admit it.

Prenups are very necessary to protect each other from each other. This is also why laws exist, again to protect each other from each other.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 692
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 1:58:50 PM

Basically, what a lot of you are implying [by saying you need a prenup to protect your ass-ets] is that you have crap judgement. You can't tell if a person is honorable or not. so you're banking on them BEING dishonorable by forcing them to sign this prenup. Does that not seem like a slap in the face? It does to me, an honorable human being.

OK, I'll play. Let's say I DO have really crap judgement. I'm getting married (or about to live with someone in Canada) and think this person has honour and we've discussed our attitudes and reactions to some of the horror show divorces out there, and they are absolutely aghast at how some people behave on the way out of a relationship. So I decide OK, I love you and trust you, know you share my attitudes about organizing the financial side of life and dissolution of finances and stuff if a relationship ends, I trust you so much we don't need to put this stuff in writing. 'sides, I know you are an honourable person, so all of this stuff is moot.

But, But, But... I have really crap judgment in people and can't tell if a person is honourable or not... So, when they do an about face at the end of our relationship, I've just had a very expensive lesson in how I have really crap judgment in people and can't tell if a person is honorable or not.

Next time around, oh THIS person is different and I can really trust them and I know they are an honourable person because we've discussed all of the horror show divorces out there... including my own. And he was more than honourable in his own divorce....

Rinse. Repeat?

No thanks. If a person is honourable they will not mind putting their intentions in writing. No force required.
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 693
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 2:49:22 PM

Did you know that a woman can have unprotected sex with a man-NOT-her-husband, and the STATE will make the HUSBAND support any child spermed by that strange man. Hmmmmmm.. where is the equity in THAT?? Seems to be a little one-sided, dont ya think?


OMG! Are you serious? I would have thought as long as there was sufficient proof that he is not the father, then he wouldn't be responsible...I can't believe such law exists? WTF!

So let me get this straight, a wife cheats on her husband falls pregnant to another man's child, husband and wife get divorced, husband is responsible for paying child support to this child???
 BACHELOR02
Joined: 8/9/2009
Msg: 697
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 3:25:42 PM
A pre-nup is nothing but an addendum to a marriage contract which requires a license. If living happily ever after was purely faith based, you wouldn't need a marriage license.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 699
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 3:51:15 PM
Should I preface my comments? I shall--
I have never been married, so I have never been divorced. So I've never been screwed over in a divorce, or in a marriage, for that matter. So on to the show...
=======================

The problem is you're using a hackneyed argument that doesn't hold water...
The new problem is you failed to back up the statement that it's hackneyed or that it doesn't hold water (why do you say these things as if they are FACTS, then never back them up with FACTS, but with only more opinions?).



Your feelings of indignation because of improper correlation is nothing in comparison to the feelings and devastating long term ramifications one can suffer in the event of getting financially raped in a divorce.

My correlation is not in the least "improper", it makes more sense than yours in the context of MARRIAGE. And that's POSSIBLE long term ramifications--POSSIBLE. Not even PROBABLE, in my opinion. But if you prefer, let's go with your "love is a business" thing.

Even in business there are intangibles. A restaurant will comp a bad meal, for instance. A bank will give $100 gift card for someone opening a $50 checking account. These are all certainly "bad business" if you look JUST at the money part. But we aren't REALLY dealing with MONEY when we have a business. We are dealing with PEOPLE -- who have money. That patron who had a bad meal will likely come BACK despite that fact, and end up spending more money. The $50 checking account could make quite a bit of money for the bank over time if the person keeps her money in that account.

The intangible in love, the part you would never be able to get back, is the erosion of trust in the marriage (which is between PEOPLE, not corporations) when you have a prenup. When you bank on my "raping" you in a divorce (by insisting upon that prenup), you are saying, "I love you, I just don't trust you." Which, to my ear, sounds a little like, "I don't actually love you, I just need a partner for our business."

You are, in effect, saying that it's worth it to you to put that first chink in the armor of marriage. You are being safe and covering yourself from what might happen.
I am saying it's not worth it. I'm going to take that risk, and trust that "right" will out.

Now, maybe the crux of the difference of opinion is this: I don't think marriage is a business contract. It's a social contract, one where I say to the world, "This is the man I love, I want everyone to know it and acknowledge it."

To say I would be bad at business is a compliment to me. Thank you.
===========
And Margo--you proved MY point. The people who want a prenup are admitting they have crap judgement. Or either you're trying to say that some people who have crap judgement are so stupid they'll never have a prenup so will always lose money in a divorce?
 boinkboinkboink
Joined: 3/20/2009
Msg: 700
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 4:03:46 PM

I love you, I just don't trust you.


No, CassaGo, a prenup sais, "I currently love you. I hope I will continue to love you in the future. However, if at any point in the future we stop loving each other, there is a very high probability that we will both be so distraught, emotional and angry, that we MIGHT shaft each other! "
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 701
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 4:18:28 PM
I think I'd have a problem with it. Can't really explain why exactly...it just doesn't sit right with me. It puts the emphasis where I don't think it belongs and sets the wrong tone.

jmo.
 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 704
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 5:02:28 PM
why not? are you marrying someone for their assets? what if kids are involved? it depends on what you each have, the inequties, et al. if a person got married and then dropped dead in six months, and if they had considerable assets and children, why not leave an equitable portion to them as well as the new "love". if anything, the older person should already be established. don't they love their children too?

not everyone can afford to give what they have to their kids when they need it, but when they "go" , why not have them in one's consideration as well? are you expecting some sort of "free ride"?

we often think we will be around for our kids. but, what if something happened unexpectedly? who is being materialistic here? what kind of love is streaming through someone's head if s/he gets p-ssed off because their partner may have others in his/her life that are as important. plus, they have known these "others" way longer than the new spouse!

economics are economics. love is love. you can build in any realistic concerns into an agreement. it doesn't have to be all or nothing. such as over time, the marital interest in the property might grow if something "happened". also by then, one's kids would presumeably be more established. if you both don't have your own pot to p_ss in, then fine. but if one has so much "MORE" that should not be your reason for marrying him or her. i would assume that s/he would make decent provisions for you as well. just not give you "everything".


ps laws in the usa vary by state. this canadian law making a man responsible for his wife's other children is strange. i believe, here in some states, if he has raised them for most of their lives it is built into what was considered to be their life together to date. thus, the continuity of the pre-established relationship. times, however, are changing--as is society.

old rules need to be adapted to what is the current norm and expectation. i wonder if the woman makes more money in canada, does this mean that she is also responsible for the man's children? i have heard this on and off pof, and am curious. it would appear some of these laws prevent people from marrying if they had any previous family--let alone sign any prenup. here, despite state law, the ineptitudes of some of the judges will screw with any poor sap's head--sometimes the man gets screwed in CA, but also sometimes the woman. i know one woman who could not move out of county and be within the same travel distance as within county. she could afford to live "better" in the second county. the dad "suddenly" wanted to care for the child. before, he never wanted to see the child. why? because it would cost him money? the implications for both of them, should either remarry, would be visited upon the new spouse? it gets complicated. often we need such agreements to address unfair laws and unfair judges as well. two wrongs don't make one right.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 705
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 5:05:37 PM
LOL everyone's opinion is subjective. What a silly statement to make, as if it's a damning one.


The crux of that matter is you choose to ignore and eschew reality.

No, I'm actually going by what I see (ie, reality)--*you're* the one going by "maybes." Maybe she'll rape me. Maybe she won't . Maybe if she signs this it will hold up in court.

Look, I get it. You're scared and you've been screwed, and you think you can take all the risk out of marrriage--excuse me--divorce, by requiring a notarized signature saying "I will not rape you".

In the end, since we don't love each other:
I'm not so much saying that it's wrong for YOU to want a prenup as I'm saying it's wrong for ME to have one.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 706
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 5:09:31 PM

So let me get this straight, a wife cheats on her husband falls pregnant to another man's child, husband and wife get divorced, husband is responsible for paying child support to this child???


Of course..... that's the first time you've heard that?

(Lifting up rock....,"Hello? Angel? Hello?".... )

 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 707
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 5:12:01 PM

The people who want a prenup are admitting they have crap judgement.


Excellent judgement, crappy judgement doesn't matter.

I found out the hard way that you never really know a person until you get divorced.....

 varinia
Joined: 1/1/2009
Msg: 709
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 5:26:44 PM

No, I'm actually going by what I see (ie, reality)


If you were going by reality, then you'd see that divorces happen every day. 50% of marriages end in divorce.

That is not all about bad judgment. People can be perfect for each other at the time, but life happens. People grow and change. And the chances that they grow towards each other are pretty slim.

And it's a whole lot easier to go from love to hate, than from love to apathy. Love and hate are both emotions. Most people get married because they love each other. They don't think they'll divorce. They think they know the other.

You're 48 - you're single. So, either you've never had a relationship or whatever relationship(s) you've had is/are over. Why? Did you have bad judgment? If you had great judgment (according to you) you'd still be together, wouldn't you?

I think a prenup is a great way to show your partner that they don't ever have to worry about any money issues, if there's a split. That will take that issue off the table and it will increase trust in each other, because both see that the marriage is for love.

Being presented with a prenup is your chance to prove that you're trust worthy. Why wouldn't you want to prove that?
 Free-At-Last
Joined: 7/15/2009
Msg: 712
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 5:34:30 PM

Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?


If the guy was filthy rich - NO



Why you ask? Because if he was filthy rich I wouldn't have to worry about him taking ME to the cleaners
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 714
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 5:40:26 PM

...even though it's unfair to the adults...


(Whispering) ..... it's only unfair to ONE adult... the GUY...


Definitely a seriously flawed system.


.... yeah, paternity fraud is the only type of fraud that is perfectly legal....

ON TOPIC:

As several people have said, prenups are the same as insurance.

Marriage as an 'institution' has fvck all to do with love.

 sweetlikesugarcane
Joined: 5/16/2009
Msg: 715
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 7:16:30 PM
I would offer to sign one if he had family money. Otherwise is it somewhat insulting but I would sign it anyway. There are still people who marry for money.

Ladies, just make sure that you get your fair share. Think of it as more of a ketubah than as a prenup. Negotiate for yourself and potential children. No one ever expects to get divorced but it happens.
 Stafford_Jim
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 717
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 8:58:27 PM


I don't have an option in all honesty. I have to protect my children before any man. I have a great deal of inheritance when my mother passes away and it is meant to see my children thru college since i'm already an adult. I can't risk jeopardizing their futures because I was impulsive. And i'm also set to inherit my family's 100+ yr old farm... that's something that MUST stay in MY family.
So yes, there WILL be a pre-nup or I will be not be marrying again.


Thank you daydreamin honey, that is exactly how a man who has assets to protect thinks. And as a man who has accumulated a certain level of wealth in his lifetime, I'd be happy to sign a pre-nup if I were engaged to someone like you.

We don't plan on falling our of love or divorcing, but having the protection for BOTH of you sure makes taking the plunge an easier decision doesn't it?

I've known too many men in their 40s and 50s who are starting over when they should be thinking about retirement. I know I don't want to wake up 50 years old and trying to start over with a 30 year mortgage or lose half of my retirement savings.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 718
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:11:16 PM
Nah, Cassa, I didn't make your point. The point is, no one knows whether their judgment sucked until they're examining it with the clarity of hindsight.

Funny, most people take it as one person imposing a set of conditions on the other. Some even suggest it is presented, or sprung on the other, fait accompli.

Nah, the pre nup or co-hab process involves sitting down... usually several sit downs as a matter of fact... and disclosing every detail of your financial situation to the other and discussing - in great detail - how you want to organize your financial relationship during the relationship and how you'd divide things if you split up. It is very revealing of attitudes to money and life. It becomes a mutual document... one that actually builds trust and openness.

The other thing people focus on is its role in dividing and protecting financials in the event of a divorce. That is true, but overlooks another significant benefit: if you split up you are emotionally distraught. Already having made the decisions on how to split things up saves you that additional emotional upheaval at a time when you're a mess. As far as I am concerned, it is a great gift you can give your future selves.
 Stafford_Jim
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 719
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:16:56 PM


What so many people who are against prenupts fail to see is how brutal and vindictive we can all be when we are hurt, angry and feel betrayed. This isn't something you can possibly understand unless you have personally experienced divorce or witnessed someone close to you going through divorce.

During a seperation, honour, empathy, consideration, are, more often then not, completely thrown out the window and people chase the only thing they can get: things, money etc. Women are VERY guilty of this whether or not they choose to admit it.

Prenups are very necessary to protect each other from each other. This is also why laws exist, again to protect each other from each other.


Exactly.
 Merrylass
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 721
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/16/2009 12:21:17 AM

merrylass, did you miss the " which is rare " part?

Your second para makes the necessary point that you don't know if you're one of the rare ones until after the fact. Everybody thinks they are the rare ones when they start out.


The intangible in love, the part you would never be able to get back, is the erosion of trust in the marriage (which is between PEOPLE, not corporations) when you have a prenup. When you bank on my "raping" you in a divorce (by insisting upon that prenup), you are saying, "I love you, I just don't trust you

Wrongo. What you are saying is 'I trust you right now and you trust me but nothing says that one of us won't end up with a mental ailment, get in an accident and wind up addicted to painkillers, undergo a life trauma which changes me so that I turn against you, think we've fallen in love with someone else, etc etc etc'.

Point is that all the love in the world can't mitigate against what life can/will throw at you and what may happen to you because of it. Do you not understand that most people do start out in relationships fully planning to continue them long-term? Have you never spoken to someone who got divorced and found out that they started in the best of intentions but things went wrong? You're kidding yourself - no, sticking your head in the sand - if you think that you marry and live happily ever after and that life will not test and try either or both of you - sometimes to breaking point.

It's the sort of fairy tale we like to believe in when we're young, but maturity teaches that life is much more complicated and it is the unwise who refuse to acknowledge that.


The people who want a prenup are admitting they have crap judgement

No, they realize that everybody thinks they have great judgement. Until they find out they are wrong. As someone pointed out, you are 48 and single. If you haven't ever made an unwise choice in the full belief that you were doing the right thing, then you are the only person on the planet to have escaped that very human situation. Ever hear of Paul McCartney??


If money means that much to you, go feck yourself! I don't need you in my life!

Yeah. You'd be singing a different song if you ended up without your home or car or any assets, near retirement, and maybe even ill - and lacking sufficient cash to fend for yourself.
 BACHELOR02
Joined: 8/9/2009
Msg: 722
view profile
History
Would you sign a prenuptial agreement?
Posted: 9/16/2009 3:50:17 AM
" you don't know if you're one of the rare ones until after the fact. Everybody thinks they are the rare ones when they start out."

What MERRYLASS said might be true, if you're both 20 years old and never been married before. But if you're older and one or both people have at least one failed marriage, you need to be realistic. As the old saying goes "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me."
Show ALL Forums  > Relationships  >