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Joined: 9/30/2005
Msg: 114
Fortune Tellers are Evil?Page 6 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
what does 'CONDICT' mean?
And how many times does it have to be said............the devil is in your mind; made up like the bogeyman. You should be more scared of the moderators!!
Joined: 5/13/2007
Msg: 115
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/21/2007 11:47:37 PM
Funny how you can say witches are good, and everyone is your friend. But if you say they are evil then watch out you may get deleted...I guess I should have said maybe they are evil or I think they are evil or I think they get their power from evil spirits or I think they are not good.....
Joined: 9/16/2006
Msg: 116
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 12:49:05 AM

Funny how you can say witches are good, and everyone is your friend. But if you say they are evil then watch out you may get deleted...I guess I should have said maybe they are evil or I think they are evil or I think they get their power from evil spirits or I think they are not good.....

no it's more along the lines that you're allowed to attack particular behaviours, particular traits, but stating a group is evil or of the devil simply because they're not like you isn't acceptable.

not to mention your post about them cutting off chicken heads and all that... well frankly that was a pile of crap. You need to do a little fact checking.
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 117
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 3:26:37 AM

Funny how you can say witches are good, and everyone is your friend. But if you say they are evil then watch out you may get deleted...I guess I should have said maybe they are evil or I think they are evil or I think they get their power from evil spirits or I think they are not good.....

This argument is either made from the standpoint of the deliberately obtuse or the hopelessly thick. Either way its trolling for flames. No, you should have said neither because quite frankly no one on these forums is any more interested in the opinion of the "evil" of witches anymore than they are the "evil" of Jews, African Americans, Hindus, Muslims, or for that matter, Baptists.

The implication of your last post, which was in clear violation of common decency and the forum rules, was that the Christian religion was the only true religion and therefore, their opinion of fortune tellers or diviners/witches etc. was the only one to carry any other words, if you don't have the sanction of our God to do miracles, your power comes from the Devil and is tacitly evil. It's an assertion, has nothing but opinion to back it up, no fact, and is plain old fashioned bigotry at its finest...

And that, plain and simple is one of the reasons it's against the rules no matter how you want to reword it.

Also, as it is unproveable bigotry, frankly no one gives a rats ass.

So you may just want to cut back on that a little. Hmm?
Joined: 3/1/2007
Msg: 118
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 11:16:31 AM
I do not believe in the tarot or palm reading or things such as that can predict anything.
I do believer that there are seers. Some call seers prophets, some people refer to this ability as ESP. If this is a genuine and true ability, I do not think that there is anything evil about it.

Joined: 3/23/2007
Msg: 119
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 11:22:32 AM
Well, I'm a prophetess. What does that make me? And what about the people who come to me for advice? Does that make them fall from grace?

Psychics peer into the essence of your soul. Our veils are lifted and we feel everything that surrounds us. We know your question before you send the message to your brain to formulate words.

We were around for millions of years until the advent of modern theolistic religion. We were killed off, murdered, burned to death and cast to the sea by the ones who claimed we were evil and malicious manipulators of spirit.

Now isn't that ironic?
Joined: 4/10/2006
Msg: 120
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 1:07:49 PM

Carl Jung, famous psych doctor, called it synchronicity.

He's one of my heros and synchronicity is one of my favorite concepts...

Once I started to take note of all the "meaningful coincedences" or synchronous events in my life, I noticed that there was a definite pattern.. I piece those patterns together to see the bigger picture...

I now look for synchronicity... and it leads me forward... since I have been doing that my life has changed dramatically and there is simply no going back...

But then, I also read tarot cards, runes, the I Ching.. amongst other oracles, and practice astrol0gy all of which have aided me in prediction and self reflection... so I guess that makes me of the devil

during the burning times witches were bumped off because they were competition to the church.

And the medical doctors
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 121
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 1:26:18 PM
I like what they had to say about John Edwards on South Park -

"Biggest Douche in the Universe"
Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 122
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Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 2:12:34 PM

i have a gift that was passed down from generation to generation... i can hold something like a ring, or a chain of yours and tell you things that even surprise me!

If you can do that in a controlled environment where such an ability can be proven, James Randi will give you $1 million dollars.
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 123
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 2:25:46 PM
I inherited skills:

Well, between having a father who listened incredibly well not just to what's said, but how and by whom, and being very attentive of his intuition, .....and having a brother who knocked all the gullible out of me by the time I was 7 or 8, I picked up a few things. My brother could convince me of anything, even the most outlandish things, because he could convince me that HE believed them, dad could make any stranger feel as if he had known them all his life.

I've told people I've never met before, things about themselves, ....talking on the phone to someone half a world away, and describing the room they are in, with many details, right down to the colour of the broom handle in their kitchen. They're convinced I'm psychic, ...but it's just the same thing that is referred to as "cold calling" or "cold reading", mentalists do this with far more accuracy and repeatability than "psychics", as if they're pulling thoughts right from peopless brains, ...ain't a gift, it's an acquired skill.
Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 124
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Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 2:26:19 PM
Here's a link where you can read about the $1 million challenge and an application you can fill out.
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 125
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 3:12:13 PM
Rather than turn this simply into a case of people claiming "special powers" or denying it, I think in reference back to the original question a comparison should be drawn between what real service is being offered as a bottom line. Whether or not there is a real supernatural component is largely irrelevant if, in the end, the effect on the person is to make them feel more positive and enriched about their life - with the tremendous caveat that they did not pay an arm and a leg for the service.

That's where people like biggest douchebag in the universe John Edwards, Sylvia Browne and other noted cold readers come in by offering supposed psychic powers at a premium price...powers that have no objective reality and in fact have been shown in the case of these two and others to be replicable by any competant person skilled in the tricks of a magician or mentalist.

While there may be sincere individuals who pursue spiritual paths not of the mainstream, and have a real belief in a reality that doesn't follow a linear path, those individuals are usually outshouted by the hucksters charging hundreds or thousands of dollars for services that rightly should not be charged for if they are indeed altruistic...

Have a day job folks, and take donations.

AS to their being evil... at the bottom line without any supernatural component, the psychic could be said to offer the services of a shoulder to cry on, an interactive counsellor who - if studied in any serious way - has access to a bit of Jungian archetype symbology, dream analysis, and a host of other different approaches to help someone examine their own inner mindscape to see what is occurring magic or mysticism involved...just plain old self questioning in the same way a regular therapist might...

Or like say a pastor might. Yes, like chatting with any pastor, or rabbi or imam about a problem you might have. For many people, going to see a psychic is basically the replacement spiritual guide figure. Go to the temple, make your offering, speak to the gods.

It's the same old practice just in a new guise. For the non-theists among you it may seem like stuff and nonsense, but then so does any church. I'm sure James Randi is aware of this dichotomy as well but insists on "protecting" people as he is a die-hard materialist and probably sees no value to religious belief of any kind...not knowing his stance on organized religion, or disorganized, I can't speak to it. I don't see him running into Catholic Churches to flip over the host mid Communion to see if Jesus is there...or to ask the Pope if he can prove he spoke to God lately.

I would be hesitant of anyone making objective claims of psychic powers that they cannot demonstrate in controlled environments...but if used in a subjective way as a guide to helping a person interpret their own inner symbolic world, I see absolutely no difference between this and any religion you could name.

My two shekelim.
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 126
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 3:20:37 PM
Agreed, ...maybe Sylvia is the bigger douche actually though.

My father probably picked up this personality trait from his father, a Luthern pastor, makes a lot of sense, "thinking" was something my dad put a lot of energy into when we were young, a lot of DeBono in me, ...I remember my father debunking Werner Earhardt with one of his buddies who bought into the whole EST/Gestalt BS in the '70s, ...BS doesn't even have to have a paranormal connection.

As for Randi, ...he has no interest in debunking religion, none, and it's made clear at the JREF site, they also don't accuse ALL of these people of willful fraud, as they recognize that some actually believe they can do these things, ...but the proof is in the tasting, ...or controlled environment, like with Sylvia, ...they've even made concessions to some of the conditions of the experiment, ...and she still avoids.

Why should she accept the challenge?

...skeptics ain't her market.

....the douche!
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 127
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 3:32:07 PM
Now here's the real test of sincereity indeed...

If these people are really curious about the universe and how it works you would think they would gladly take the opportunity to participate in a test...

Except for one problem that just occurred to me as I was chatting with a silly as this might be, as non-empirical, entertain it for a moment...

Say the working principal behind such psychic powers has something to do with belief or will generating "x" amount of energy. What if disbelief generates "-x" energy. Well if you are in a place testing, but not even testing for that kind of a parameter, how would one notice?

Perhaps they would have a way of testing in a remote closed environment over a period of enough time to nullify the effects of the testers disbelief.

Yes I know it sounds completely absurd and unscientific...think of the subject matter we are dealing with of course...I am just inventing a premise that might explain the lack of results in a so-called controlled environment. *chuckle*

Just for curiousities sake, how many meditating monks has the JREF tested and what explanation is given for their ability to alter their vital signs? That doesn't seem to require the belief or disbelief of the participants? Tangential but in the ballpark?

Food for thought.
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 128
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 3:36:02 PM
What's so hard about that? I can alter my pulse rate, blood pressure, body temp, and a few other things via biofeedback, Houdini used to do the disappearing pulse trick, ...Chris Angel still does it, it requires disipline and practice, ...something thses monks are very adept at, no?
Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 129
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Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 3:55:16 PM
Randi is an atheist, and while he doesn't debunk religion in general the way Richard Dawkins does, he has gone after certain religious figures, notably TV evangelist Peter Popoff. Popoff claimed a "God-given" ability to heal sick people by laying his hands on them. Randi discovered he was using a hidden in-ear device and his wife was transmitting messages about people in the audience via radio that Randi was able to record. He's also been critical of some claims made by Oral Roberts and Pat Robertson.

I'm convinced Sylvia Browne is a outright fraud. Some of these people have deluded themselves into thinking they have magic powers. SB I'm sure knows she isn't really magic, she does her thing in such a cautious way to keep from being exposed.
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 130
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 4:11:21 PM
As far as these frauds were concerned, he was exposing a scam, ...not a religion.

He's also been critical of some claims made by Oral Roberts and Pat Robertson.

As would any reasonable Christian,
Joined: 6/2/2007
Msg: 131
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 7:04:00 PM
I just want to post a comment that is personal to me......I firmly beleive anytype of organzied religion that claims they are the one true relgions is wrong....we all have one creator and its the pursuit of relgion that is causing many of the problems in the world today.....Why can't we all just be one.....United we stand..divided we fall
Joined: 6/10/2007
Msg: 132
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 8:50:56 PM
wow,what a touchy subject!I do not believe withches are a lie,I know that some'witches do practice bad things[for example the rituals of sacrifice].Just because one might have a 'gift' does not mean that one is supposed to delve into its so called powers.That is where I take issue with it.I believe that we are not supposed to attempt to see what powers we may or may not have,just my opinion.Yet we are all sinners!
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 133
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 9:17:43 PM
Disclaimer: This is just an OPINION, nothing else... So if you want to persacute some one, it should be some one trully worthy of your time.
lol I think Syliva herself is a false prophet! She is so unbelievable in pretty well anything she says. I just can't believe some one who charges for her "gifts", what have you, and claim to be the real deal. I say "bah" to that.
Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 134
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 6/22/2007 9:17:46 PM
we all have one creator

Well, there you go, I have two, called mom & dad, .....see how easy it is? You slipped into the same thing you're criticizing.

The glaring fact remains, nobody has yet to demostrate this "gift" under controlled conditions, so far it is observable as A. a willful scam, B. a harmless delusion.

When it can be shown otherwise, I'll be the first to stand up and cheer, that's a promise.

As far as the "A." group is concerned, I'll go with South Park, and put them in the "Biggest Douches in the Universe" category.

Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 135
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 7/11/2007 11:48:17 PM
In my opinion, all of us are meant to "delve into" ourselves. "Know thy Self" is the primary advice for anyone on a path of personal growth and spiritual development. One cannot make any progress up "Jacob's Ladder" by cutting one's self off from parts of one's self. Do you find your own intuition or sexuality troubling or difficult? No progress will be made on finding peace of mind unless one accepts and understands the totality of one's self.

Just because one might have a 'gift' does not mean that one is supposed to delve into its so called powers.That is where I take issue with it.I believe that we are not supposed to attempt to see what powers we may or may not have,just my opinion.Yet we are all sinners!

Right here is the BIG PROBLEM with organized religion. Take some book written by humans as the "word of God" and some religious leaders or your local pastors ideas as closer to what is right than your own and you are being spiritually and ethically lazy! We all have to connect to our own conscience and decide what is right for us, individually.

I am NOT A SINNER! And I am not a Christian, either. Pagans have one guideline: Do what you want, but harm none. Personally I think there are only 2 sins:
1- Self-importance 2- Not Recycling.
Joined: 7/22/2007
Msg: 136
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 8/3/2007 9:57:14 PM
Ok i always recall my pastor, my mom,my dad, and everyone else telling me that witches and fortune tellers were evil and followed satan. You know i got to thinking about this and glanced at the bible and i said " wait, the prophets foretold the future! bible just contridicted itself!" so correct me if i am wrong and post your thoughts on this.

well loci......I believe its in the book chronicles in the bible that refers to fortune tellers being of an evil nature.........

if you read more carefully I also believe that you will find that the evil comes from someone pretending to be able to see events ........ and using it for their own benefits..

I dislike the word fortune tellers......because the conotations that are associated with it.........
Instead lets call the seers or people who have a "gift" or an abilty to tap into things that are not yet seen.

yes the bible contradicts itself........why did an angel appear to someone in every book of the bible.............wouldn't that be evil as well then........

the gift of seeing can be taken by the one who has the either a gift or a curse..........all depends on your outlook.......but be rest assured that some people infact have the gift of foreseeing what has not yet occured.......and to nurture that gift...and make it truely a gift and not a to carry it out with the purest of heart........and deliver the messages that might prevent something terrible from happening.
Joined: 2/14/2007
Msg: 137
Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 8/18/2007 10:04:56 PM
Do you realize Jesus was a seer of the future, a healer, he talked to the dead (moses did die) he did magic (water into wine/which is part of quantum physics) yet all of this is evil according to the bible if someone else does it. The conference of Nicea they edited the bible they took out what they didn't want..added in what they did want. I'm going to assume they didn't want another Jesus to come around and do these marvelous things he did. He did cause quite a stir in that time. Not all good for the church of the day or the government of the time. So if we say you shouldn't do this and its evil and have enough people believing it than we might just get thru the rest of the days on this planet without having another enlightened messenger from God sent to us. What you fear most you always try to get rid of.
Joined: 9/7/2004
Msg: 138
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Fortune Tellers are Evil?
Posted: 11/17/2008 5:27:07 PM
I recall a time in my life when I was questioned by the local priest and he wanted to do an excorsism on me...ha

I gracefully declined. Its easy for them to judge, and look at what we are hearing in the papers about there so called gracious lifestyles.
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