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Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 76
Your thoughts on the Church of ScientologyPage 4 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

Too many children nowadays are drugged up because the psychologists have to substantiate their profession

More than that, they have direct financial ties...their livelyhoods depend on
keeping their patiences addicted to drugs. They are legalized drug pushers....very
little difference nowadays. Take away the legality of their profession you'll see
psychologists running drugs across the Paxil for cocaine. They
certainly don't want you cured with a single pill nor do the drug companies.

Do a bit more research on line - enough with googling Scientologist now turn
your attention to the psychologists and what people have to say about them.

My experience; i was starting to feel anxiety years doctor promptly, without
blood tests, put me on Paxil....then my fingernails started to break, my hair became fine and
started to thin out, acne formed, my weight fluctuated - each and every time his
diagnosis: I have: arthritis, my acne is hormonal, my hair too, my weight - go to the
gym and/or it's hormonal. AND, he told me to remain on gf mom is a doctor
and she immediately identified it as a thyroid disorder; after a very simple blood
test it was confirmed; my hair has recovered, my nails have recovered and I am
no longer this skinny stick figure. I fired that doctor and he is currently under
investigation for possible eithical issues - Dr Strangelove, it seems, loves the
money way too much for his patience own good.
 Lord Dave
Joined: 11/25/2005
Msg: 77
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/1/2006 11:24:13 AM
1. Never said they did commit any murders. Nor did I say I condone it. Did I not say I critisize most religious organizations?
2. I think Sigmund Freud was a first class pervert.
3. You know why there's alot of perscription anti-psychotic drugs? Because people are scared. Have you ever been frightened? Have you ever experienced what it's like to not be able to trust your own thoughts, memories, feelings, or eve your senses? I have. It was only for a few hours but it scared the HELL out of me. If that happened on a daily basis I'd be very afraid too. The first step to helping anyone is to keep them calm and get them to believe they have control. While I don't approve of the methods, many humans are weak willed and need that crutch.
Also I did go to a psychiatrist once back in high school. He said nothing was wrong and turned me away after 5 min.

Now if my information is right, and please, correct me if it's wrong, aren't Audit sessions very similar to psychiatric sessions?
From my understanding they sit you in a room with an auditor, usually alone, hook you up to a machine that detects electrical signals across your skin, similar to a lie detector, and ask you questions, forcing you to look deep inside yourself and solve your problems.
The difference with psychology is that they don't do it as agressively and they don't use a machine, but other then that it sounds similar.
Please correct my (most likely) misinformation.
Joined: 5/10/2006
Msg: 78
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/9/2006 9:08:23 PM
The Bible says not to be afraid for God has given us a spirit of boldness. Fear not what tomorrow will bring.... there are many truths in the Bible and when we look out at the people around us, many of their "mental health" problems can be traced back to a spiritual truth or principle. Worry can consume people to the point that they are unable to function. Biblical truth: fear not what tomorrow will bring for tomorrow will care for itself. Biblical truth: if His eye is on the sparrow, I know He watches me.... God cares for me and take care of me, I shall trust in Him. God is good for what ailes us.

I hear a theme in some of the posts that everyone serves the same god and only a petty god would condemn a person who serves a god of a different name. It is more popular now for people to believe that we all serve the same god. I serve the one true God. I believe in Jesus Christ - that He is the way, the truth and the light and that by Him alone are we saved. I continue to believe that there is only one true faith.... God is a just God and He knows... We do not see clearly now but we will some day. In the meantime, regardless of someone's beliefs, we can continue to be kind to each other. I don't hate people who don't believe what I believe - I however do not chose to comform my beliefs to theirs or to pretend that I think they are "all right."

I think psychiatry can be helpful to some people as well as counseling. Obviously, psychiatrists can be evil - it's like anything else in life - some of the professionals can be excellant, some medium and some just plain bad. Some people do need medication. I agree with Lord Dave about being concerned about children on serious medications. Children are not at an age where they are typically allowed to decide for themselves. I worry that taking medications will interfere with the natural brain development that continues to take place in children well until they are 14 on average leading to life long changes in brain chemistry possibly brought on by these drugs. Sometimes I think medication can mask a problem that simply needs to be solved by long-term structure. Sometimes these problems will work themselves out with a little time and effort but if we drug the child, can the child work the problem out or is the child just more tollerable to all around? See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. Shh..... as long as you are quiet and still everything must be all right.

A nurse once said that when a person had serious mental health problems and started taking medication that the medication could actually allow them to gather up enough energy and mental alertness to carry out a plan for suicide - that improvement must still be monitored carefully....
 De Kat came back
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 79
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/26/2006 10:28:58 PM
I feel for the situation that you found yourself in. Far too many doctor's proscribe antidepressants or antipsycotic medications on a whim... my advice to all who find themselves in a situation such as yours Vivid is to first seek a second opinion....second if all tests are accurately done and anxiety does continue see a psychiatrist or a psychologist... I understand what you are saying about the pharmaceutical liasons but with these doctors there is atleast more adequate information; and speaking of information, get as much information from organizations as well. There are many mental health organizations that can help.
I am a mental health worker and I have 18 yrs experience in the health field I do not always agree with the quantity of medications used for some patients but on the other hand I have watched people with serious mental illness regain normal lives when treated correctly.
There has been much discussion about Scientology vs Christianity and alot of bashing... the one thing that I have to remind myself is that there is good in every religion... if there wasn't people would not be attracted to them... but there are also people in every religion and human failure and/or corruption is at fault .... might not be that the basis for any religion is wrong but rather the people who get money hungry or power hungry that creates the incongruencies which we see being argued about in this forum.
 Guy Ledouche
Joined: 5/30/2006
Msg: 80
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/27/2006 12:43:33 AM
Doctors are idiots. There is not one of them that remembers everything they were taught in school. That's why they have specialists. They see you for a couple minutes, venture a guess and check their computers to see what sort of pill they should be forcing on you - which more often than not leads to other problems, thus keeping them extremely overpaid.

I stopped going to doctors years ago and have never felt better. Just one of several reasons I have stopped willingly paying my medical each month.
Joined: 6/30/2006
Msg: 81
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/27/2006 12:55:29 AM

There has been much discussion about Scientology vs Christianity and alot of bashing... the one thing that I have to remind myself is that there is good in every religion

It's not really a religion...I've studied it long enough to know better. It's called a
'religion' for tax benifits. I'm a Christian that finds value in Scientology. They
both can co-exist in your belief system...but one is not a faith.
Joined: 9/8/2006
Msg: 82
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/14/2007 8:32:31 AM
As I sit today in Clearwater Florida
the spiritual headquarters for the church
a day after the birthday of LRH March 13 2007
(actually the Scientologists will celebrate this on Friday 16th)
all is calm --
are they a Church or Self Improvement Class (aka Tony Robbins)
I have read it all in these posts
some good -- other cruel comments
most have been justified
as the Mormons were persecuted and chased across the country
settling down in Salt Lake
I see the same end result here in Clearwater
These is MUCH friction now
between ""conventional Churches" and believers
against those in Scientology
100+ years later Salt Lake City hosts the Olympic Games
maybe the same in the end will happen to Clearwater
just not the Winter Games
Clear --- a LRH favorite
I am in favor of the position against RIDDILIN (sp?) and other
type of pshycotic drugs
(without the antics even TOM CRUISE has made some good points)
and even though the IRS and Feds have classified Scientology
as a religious group.......... I may not fully agree
I will stick to my CHRISTIAN CHURCH where
we worship a GOD -- Creator and His Son Jesus our Savior..........
Joined: 2/21/2007
Msg: 83
view profile
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/14/2007 8:51:05 AM
The core belief, told only to OT III members (upper level members), is as follows :(according to

Who is Xenu?

Once upon a time (75 million years ago to be more precise) there was an alien galactic ruler named Xenu. Xenu was in charge of all the planets in this part of the galaxy including our own planet Earth, except in those days it was called Teegeeack.

Now Xenu had a problem. All of the 76 planets he controlled were overpopulated. Each planet had on average 178 billion people. He wanted to get rid of all the overpopulation so he had a plan.

Xenu took over complete control with the help of renegades to defeat the good people and the Loyal Officers. Then with the help of psychiatrists he called in billions of people for income tax inspections where they were instead given injections of alcohol and glycol mixed to paralyse them. Then they were put into space planes that looked exactly like DC8s (except they had rocket motors instead of propellers).

These DC8 space planes then flew to planet Earth where the paralysed people were stacked around the bases of volcanoes in their hundreds of billions. When they had finished stacking them around then H-bombs were lowered into the volcanoes. Xenu then detonated all the H-bombs at the same time and everyone was killed.

The story doesn't end there though. Since everyone has a soul (called a "thetan" in this story) then you have to trick souls into not coming back again. So while the hundreds of billions of souls were being blown around by the nuclear winds he had special electronic traps that caught all the souls in electronic beams (the electronic beams were sticky like fly-paper).

After he had captured all these souls he had them packed into boxes and taken to a few huge cinemas. There all the souls had to spend days watching special 3D motion pictures that told them what life should be like and many confusing things. In this film they were shown false pictures and told they were God, The Devil and Christ. In the story this process is called "implanting".

When the films ended and the souls left the cinema these souls started to stick together because since they had all seen the same film they thought they were the same people. They clustered in groups of a few thousand. Now because there were only a few living bodies left they stayed as clusters and inhabited these bodies.

As for Xenu, the Loyal Officers finally overthrew him and they locked him away in a mountain on one of the planets. He is kept in by a force-field powered by an eternal battery and Xemu is still alive today.
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 84
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/14/2007 11:36:11 AM
In my opinion, a "church" only for tax purposes. The German government has them dead to rights. It is a criminal money grabbing organization with a two-tiered system that draws celebrities for the empty-headed pop-psychology of Dianetics, which Hubbard cobbled together from plagarized material, and a lower tier for the rank and file drawn in by the celebrities they wish to emulate...they exist to fuel the money needs of the organization and don't get to attend the special resorts and clubs.

The beliefs? Bad B-grade pulp sci-fi so bad that Hubbard himself wouldn't have submitted it to a good magazine (hopefully) back in the 40's...then again there was Battlefield Earth (eurgh...chunder).

The best information clearinghouse on the nuthouse that is $cientology...they keep trying to get it torn down...but it ain't goin' nowhere... - in the words of Elvis "Clambake, gonna have a clambake!"

Feeder organizations like Narconon exist to prey on the weak and confused drug and alcohol addicted (even celebs like Kirstie Alley) serving as a court allowable alternative to AA.

The founder, a drug addled, failed Navy officer turned sub-par science ficiton writer/con-artist...not according to his Church of course.
The true story of L. Ron...

But then if you ask them they probably wouldn't tell you that they were convicted as an organization in Canada for breach of trust and have the stellar claim of being the only "church" with that distinction.

And as one Keith Henson found out, they guard the copywrite to their "secrets" most fiercly...

A list of written, radio and media accounts of Keith Henson's plight:

Electronic Frontier Foundation Concerned US Court Violated Free Speech Rights

LA Weekly Article on Keith Henson June 22, 2001

LA Weekly Article Scientology, cont. By News Staff Wednesday, May 20, 1998

Unorthodox Arrest, Enzo Di Matteo, NOW Magazine, June 7-13, 2001.

Scientology Critic Convicted -- Apr. 27, 2001 Wired article on Henson's conviction,1283,43420,00.html

Vince Daniels Show on K.C.A.A. 1050 AM Los Angeles February 3, 2007

US Scientology critic free in Canada, Article by The Register in June 2001

On the run from L. Ron Hubbard, Article written by in May 2001

Scientology Critic Flees U.S. Over Usenet Posts, Pickets; Article written by Slashdot May 2001

Here is Keith Henson's main page

Here is a wikipedia page about Henson
notes on the Henson trial and its "irregularities" following a filed amicus


Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 85
view profile
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/14/2007 1:36:32 PM

The beliefs? Bad B-grade pulp sci-fi so bad that Hubbard himself wouldn't have submitted it to a good magazine (hopefully) back in the 40's...then again there was Battlefield Earth (eurgh...chunder).

Quite right.
Hubbard himself bragged that he could make people believe his nonsense, and make tons of cash in the process. For some inexplicable reason he has succeeded.
I think he played upon some people's desire to be privy to occult and esoteric knowledge. Their desire to be one of the chosen few, one of the elite.
He found this weakness in some people and exploited it.
Former scientologists report severe psychological problems such as recurring nightmares after leaving the cult. Something to do with the so-called "auditing" process, or just the harassment they incur from members that don't want them to leave, or maybe a combination of these factors?
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 86
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/14/2007 11:13:02 PM
Moon Man Your Profuse judgements about good humans is offensive and pompous. There is no need to make some holier than thow judgement about everyone with whom you disagree.
That off my chest...
Hubbard and his buddy Jack Parsons were both in the L.A. chapter of the O.T.O. , Ordoro Templar Orientalis, Alster Crowley's religion. Jack P. of course was a brilliant fellow who started the Jet Propulsion Laboratories. Jack P. also wrote some occult books. They were both what some might consider black or at least grey magicians. Hubbard and Jack P.'s "grieving" widow traveled to Florida together soon after Jack died in an unexplained and unsolved explosion in his J.P.L. shop/lab.
I figure Hubbard was a Thelemite black magician, and he was laughing at his devoted followers.
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 87
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/15/2007 12:11:40 AM

I figure Hubbard was a Thelemite black magician, and he was laughing at his devoted followers.

There's no good evidence to suggest Hubbard was any kind of practicioner of occult magic of any note...while Parsons may have dabbled in OTO based rituals and talked a good game to Crowley through the mail it seems apparent that he soon fell out of favour with the Master Therion...probably, like many of Crowley's (ROFL)less than cagey "disciples", when the money dried up...

From "The Bare-Faced Messiah" at

According to Rogers, Parsons never made any secret of his interest in black magic or his involvement with Aleister Crowley. 'He had a voluminous correspondence with Crowley in the library, some of which he showed me. I remember in particular one letter from Crowley which praised and encouraged him for the fine work he was doing in America, and also casually thanked him for his latest donation and intimated that more would shortly be needed. Jack admitted that he was one of Crowley's main sources of money in America.

'I always found Jack's insistence that he believed in, and practised, magic hard to reconcile with his educational and cultural background. At first I thought it was all fun and games, a kick he was on for its shock value to his respectable friends. But after seeing his correspondence with Crowley, and the evidence of his frequent remittances to Crowley, I had to give him the benefit of the doubt.'[7]


On 6 March, Parsons sat down to compose a letter to his Satanic Master in England, apprising him of the momentous events that had recently taken place. 'I can hardly tell you or decide how much to write,' he began. 'I am under command of extreme secrecy. I have had the most important, devastating experience of my life . . . I believe it was the result of the IXth degree working [the class of sexual magic designed to produce a higher being] with the girl who answered my elemental summons. I have been in direct touch with One who is most Holy and Beautiful as mentioned in The Book of the Law. I cannot write the name at present. First instructions were received direct through Ron, the seer. I have followed them to the letter. There was a desire for incarnation. I do not yet know the vehicle, but it will come to me bringing a secret sign. I am to act as instructor guardian for nine months; then it will be loosed on the world. That is all I can say now . . .'[21]

Crowley, who was by then in his seventies, chronically addicted to heroin and facing death, was irritated by his disciple's secrecy. On 19 April he despatched a terse reply: 'You have got me completely puzzled by your remarks about the elemental . . . I thought I had a most morbid imagination, as good as any man's, but it seems I have not. I cannot form the slightest idea of what you can possibly mean.' On the same day he wrote to Karl Germer, head of the OTO in the United States: 'Apparently Parsons or Hubbard or somebody is producing a Moonchild. I get fairly frantic when I contemplate the idiocy of these louts.'

While Parsons fretted over Crowley's letter, his faithful scribe was facing more earthly, and much more familiar, problems. Having contributed his meagre savings to Allied Enterprises, Hubbard was badly in need of money. He had written virtually nothing since leaving

18. Book of Babalon, O.T.O archives, New York
19. ibid.
20. John Parsons, 'Magical Record', O.T.O. archives, New York
21. Symonds, op. cit.



the Navy and his wife was rapidly losing patience with his repeated excuses as to why he was unable to send any money home to support her and the children.

Polly recognized by this time that there was little chance of saving her marriage. Towards the end of the war, she and Ron had briefly discussed moving to California when he was discharged from the Navy, but Polly refused to uproot the children. She had a nightmare vision of trying to raise a family while trailing forlornly after her husband, backwards and forwards from one coast to the other.[22] Nibs and Katie were happily settled in Bremerton, enjoyed school, and had friends and family all around. Polly had left The Hilltop and moved in with Ron's parents to be closer to the facilities of Bremerton; it was an arrangement she found perfectly satisfactory. Both Harry Hubbard, who had retired from the Navy and found a job as manager of Kitsap County Fair, and his wife enjoyed having their grandchildren around.

But while Polly was content to live with her in-laws, she still needed money to feed and clothe herself and the children and, not unreasonably, she expected her husband to provide it. Ron's problem in this regard was not just that he was broke (nothing unusual), but that he had reached the limit of his credit with the residents of 1003 South Orange Grove Avenue, having borrowed from everyone who was prepared to lend.

In February, the Veterans Administration had awarded him a pension of $11.50 a month for a ten per cent disability caused by his ulcer. Ron did not consider this miserable amount to be nearly sufficient and on 18 March, two weeks after completing his duties as a black magic scribe, he lodged an appeal, producing a dramatic new disability which he had somehow neglected to mention on his original claim form. 'I have lost between sixty and eighty per cent of my vision,' he claimed in a letter typed on his distinctive initialled notepaper, 'and as my profession is that of writer, my present inability to read or use my eyes seriously affects my income. I cannot work either long hours or under the slightest adverse conditions. My income at the present time, due entirely to service connected injuries, is zero. Would you please advise me as to the steps I should take to gain further pension?'[23]

After his years in the Navy, Ron was well aware of the speed with which the wheels of bureaucracy moved and his need for money was urgent. His solution was to persuade Parsons that the time had come to activate Allied Enterprises. Towards the end of April, Ron and Sara [she was only called Betty at South Orange Grove] left for Florida with $10,000 drawn from the Allied Enterprises account at the Pasadena First Trust and Savings Bank. Parsons approved the withdrawal so that the partnership could purchase its first yacht in the

22. Letter to author from Mrs Catherine Gillespie, November 1986
23. Hubbard file, VA archives

east; it was agreed that Ron and Sara would then either sail it back to California for re-sale, or transport it overland, whichever proved to be cheaper.

It seemed a perfectly simple and sensible business arrangement, although Parsons presumably did not know that on 1 April Ron had written to the Chief of Naval Personnel requesting permission to leave the United States to visit South America and China.[24] However, not many weeks passed before Parsons began to worry, for he heard not a word from either Ron or Sara. He realized, with mounting frustration, that they had gone off with $10,000 of his money and he had little idea of where they might be. He confessed his concern to Louis Culling, another member of the OTO lodge, and swore he was going to get his money back and dissolve the partnership.

The next day Ron telephoned from Florida, reversing the charges. Culling was at South Orange Grove when the call came through and he was amazed to find that Parsons was completely dominated by Hubbard. After what had been said the previous day, Culling expected Parsons to be cool towards his wayward partner at the very least. But Parsons made no mention of his disquiet, did not complain about being kept in the dark and said nothing about dissolving the partnership. He was soon laughing happily into the telephone as if he had not a care in the world and the conversation ended with Parsons saying, 'I hope we shall always be partners, Ron.'

Greatly disturbed, Culling took it upon himself to make some inquiries and on 12 May he wrote to Karl Germer: 'As you may know by this time, Brother John signed a partnership agreement with this Ron and Betty whereby all money earned by the three for life is equally divided between the three. As far as I can ascertain, Brother John has put in all of his money . . . Meanwhile, Ron and Betty have bought a boat for themselves in Miami for about $10,000 and are living the life of Riley, while Brother John is living at rock bottom, and I mean rock bottom. It appears that originally they never secretly intended to bring this boat around to the California coast to sell at a profit, as they told Jack, but rather to have a good time on it on the east coast . . .'[25]

Germer naturally informed Crowley, who replied by cable on 22 May: 'Suspect Ron playing confidence trick. Jack evidently weak fool. Obvious victim prowling swindlers.' In a letter seven days later, Crowley wrote, 'It seems to me on the information of our brethren in California that Parsons has got an illumination in which he has lost all his personal independence. From our brother's account he has given away both his girl and his money. Apparently it is the ordinary confidence trick.'[26]

While Crowley and fellow members of the OTO were already in

24. L. R. Hubbard navy record
25. O.T.O archives, New York
26. ibid.

agreement that Brother Parsons had been conned, Brother Parsons was painfully arriving at a similar conclusion and at the beginning of June he packed a case and caught a train East, determined to track down the errant lovers and get his money back.

In Miami, Parsons discovered to his astonishment that Allied Enterprises had already purchased three boats - two auxiliary schooners, the Harpoon and the Blue Water II, and a yacht, the Diane. It seemed that Ron had raised mortgages totalling more than $12,000 to buy the schooners.

Parsons traced the Harpoon to Howard Bond's Yacht Harbor on the County Causeway, but there was no sign of either Ron or Sara. The Blue Water was found at the American Ship Building Company docks on the Miami river; again, there was no one on board.

One evening a few days later, Parsons received a telephone call from the harbour. The Harpoon, he was told, had set sail at five o'clock that afternoon, with Ron and Sara on board apparently intent on making an escape. In his Miami hotel room, Parsons donned his magic robes and traced a circle on the floor with his magic wand. At eight o'clock, he stepped into the ring and performed the 'Banishing Ritual of the Pentagram', the preliminary to all magic, followed by a full invocation of Bartzabel, the spirit of Mars, whose help he sought to restrain his fleeing partners. In a letter to Crowley describing his actions, he was able to report a highly satisfactory result: 'At the same time, so far as I can check, his ship was struck by a sudden squall off the coast, which ripped off his sails and forced him back to port, where I took the boat in custody.'[27]

On 1 July, the magician sought redress through more conventional means: he filed suit in the Circuit Court for Dade County, accusing Ron and Sara of breaking the terms of their partnership, dissipating the assets and attempting to abscond.[28] A receiver was appointed to wind up the affairs of Allied Enterprises and a restraining order was placed on the defendants, preventing them from leaving Miami or disposing of any of the partnership's assets.

'Here I am in Miami pursuing the children of my folly,' Parsons wrote gloomily to Crowley on 5 July. 'I have them well tied up. They cannot move without going to jail. However, most of the money has already been dissipated. I will be lucky to salvage $3000 to $5000.'

On 11 July, the three partners signed an agreement, drawn up by Parsons' lawyer, dissolving the partnership. Ron and Sara handed over the Blue Water and the Diane and agreed to pay half Parsons' legal costs. For his part, Parsons allowed Ron and Sara to keep the Harpoon in return for a $2900 promissory note which covered his financial interest in the schooner. Jack Parsons returned to Pasadena satisfied that he had made the best deal he could under the circumstances and

27. Grant, op. cit.
28. Parsons v. Hubbard & Northrup

not too distressed at the loss of his former lover and his former best friend. He never saw either of them again.

In Miami, Ron and Sara were returned to their accustomed state of penury after their brief fling at the expense of Allied Enterprises. Their most immediate and pressing problem was how to maintain payments on the $4600 mortgage still outstanding on the Harpoon. Ron, who had never allowed money matters to worry him over-much, clung to the belief that he would eventually be able to wheedle a larger pension from the Veterans Administration. On 4 July, Independence Day, he had spent part of the holiday composing yet another stirring appeal against his pension award and introducing a further hitherto unmentioned disability, this time a 'chronic and incapacitating bone infection'.

On the claim form, he painted a harrowing picture of a veteran gamely struggling against disabilities which he rated at one hundred per cent. His original duodenal ulcer had mysteriously multiplied; his 'ulcers', he pointed out, had caused him to abandon his old profession of 'ship-master and explorer' and severely hampered his work as a writer. 'I can do nothing involving nervous strain without becoming dangerously ill.' As for his failing eyesight, he now found it difficult to read for more than three or four minutes without suffering from headaches, making it virtually impossible for him to do any research. His problems had begun, he noted, after 'prolonged exposure to tropical sunlight in the Pacific'. Furthermore, he was lame as the result of a bone infection in his right hip, contracted at Princeton University because of 'the sudden transition from the tropics to the slush and icy cold of Princeton'. He was unable to walk without suffering severely.

'My earning power, due to injuries, all service connected,' he concluded, 'has dropped to nothing. I earned one thousand dollars a month prior to the war as a writer. I cannot now earn money as a writer and attempts to find other employment have failed because of my physical condition.'

To support his case, Hubbard persuaded Sara to write to the Veterans Administration as an old friend to provide independent corroboration of his rapidly deteriorating health. She put her parents address in Pasadena on the top of the letter.

'I have known Lafayette Ronald Hubbard for many years,' she began, inauspiciously and untruthfully, 'and wish to testify as to the condition of his health as I have observed it since his separation from the Navy.

'Before the war, he was an extremely energetic person in excellent health and spirits . . . Since his return in December last year he is entirely changed. He cannot read because of his eyes, which give him
much pain. He is rather lame and cannot take his accustomed hikes . . . He has tried to work at three different jobs and each he has had to leave because of an increase in his stomach condition. He seems to need an enormous amount of rest . . .

'I do not know what he is going to do for income when his own meagre savings are exhausted, because I see no chance of his condition improving to a point where he can regain his old standards. He is becoming steadily worse, his health impaired again by economic worries . . .'[29]

In fact, a short-term solution to his economic worries was immediately and obviously at hand: the Harpoon. Faced with the impossibility of repaying the mortgage, Ron decided to sell the boat in the hope of clearing his most pressing debts. Solvent again, temporarily at least, he asked Sara to marry him. She accepted unhesitatingly. At the beginning of August the lovers left Florida and caught a train for Washington DC. On 10 August 1946, twenty-one-year-old Sara Northrup and L. Ron Hubbard were married in a simple ceremony at Chestertown, Maryland.

By a curious coincidence, Chestertown was only thirty miles from Elkton, where L. Ron Hubbard had married Polly Grubb in 1933. Sara knew nothing of Polly and had no idea that her new husband had been previously married. Still less did she know he had never been divorced.

Similarly, Polly, in Bremerton, had yet to learn her husband was a bigamist.

Back at South Orange Grove in Pasadena, Parsons sold the old mansion for development and moved into the coach-house with his scarlet woman, Marjorie Cameron, whom he subsequently married. It was to be a tragically brief alliance. On the afternoon of Friday 20 June 1952, Parsons was working alone in the garage of the coachhouse, which he had converted into a laboratory. At eight minutes past five there was an enormous explosion. The heavy stable doors were blasted from their hinges, the walls blew out and a huge hole was torn in the floor timbers. When the dust had cleared, a partially dismembered body could be seen still bleeding in the rubble.

Further horror was to follow. Police traced Parsons's mother, Mrs Ruth Virginia Parsons, to the home of a crippled woman friend in West Glenarm Street. Informed of the accident and her son's death, Mrs Parsons returned to the room where her friend was sitting in an armchair. She sat down in another chair out of reach, unscrewed a bottle of sleeping tablets and, watched by her helpless and appalled friend, rapidly swallowed the entire contents. Unable to move from her chair, the terrified cripple watched her friend slowly die.[30]

29. Hubbard file, VA archives.
30. Pasadena Star News, 21 June 1952 and 5 July 1952

The inquest found that the explosion had been caused by Parsons accidentally dropping a phial of nitro-glycerine. But because of his known interest in the occult, there were inevitably rumours of suicide or even murder; none of his friends could believe that a man so experienced in handling explosives would have dropped nitro-glycerine accidentally.

Whatever the truth, no black magician could have wished for a blacker departure from the world. there we have it. Con man screws over friend for girlfriend and life savings, is mutually described by Crowley al0ng with Parson's as "American louts." Then Parson's "accidently" drops the nitroglycerine...then mom suicides with sleeping pills...

Some years later we will find L. Ron's drug riddled bloated corpse as the vultures move in to take over the business he founded but was now to addled to run...

If that's an example of an occult success story, I'll pass. I'd say the operation was NOT a success, unless they meant to fall under the swift sword of which case, job well done. Watch that Abyss edge...sometimes they leave banana peels lying around.
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 88
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/15/2007 1:29:24 AM
Thank You Mad Fiddler. So greatful for your literate input.
Seems to give some creedence to my theory.
Joined: 8/19/2006
Msg: 89
view profile
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/15/2007 9:09:32 AM

If that's an example of an occult success story, I'll pass. I'd say the operation was NOT a success, unless they meant to fall under the swift sword of which case, job well done. Watch that Abyss edge...sometimes they leave banana peels lying around.

L.Ron had dabbled in black magic it seems to gain money, power, fame,....
This could explain his ability to effectively lie, cheat, steal, and generally con people into giving him money to learn the "secrets" of scientology, and the apparent spiritual influence and hold that the cult seems to have over it's followers.
Very informative, thanks fiddler.
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 90
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/15/2007 11:12:59 AM

L.Ron had dabbled in black magic it seems to gain money, power, fame,....
This could explain his ability to effectively lie, cheat, steal, and generally con people into giving him money to learn the "secrets" of scientology, and the apparent spiritual influence and hold that the cult seems to have over it's followers.
Very informative, thanks fiddler.

Don't read too much into Hubbard's can see from his scorn of Parsons' and his swift use of Parsons' money and girlfriend that he was more interested in the peripheral lifestyle than the actual practices. If you read the actual article this becomes clear. He lifts what little he wants - mostly the use of hypnosis - but no actual magical practice remains in Scientology. The only advantage Hubbard likely saw to magic was the ability to use it to encourage some of the wives of the JPL swingers into what they might view as kinky sex because it could be under the guise of a "spiritual practice". Parsons' was clearly serious, if misguided

His ability had nothing to do with black magic...just being a fast talking con man. This persisted from his early years to his death as a viewing of his extant documents and review of his biographies makes "clear" - and how I love using that word in reference to him when he was anything but clear. People's willingness to buy into it are more easily explained by the Barnum principle.
Joined: 9/21/2005
Msg: 91
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/16/2007 12:41:08 AM
I saw this on TV a few months ago:

This article is too long to post, but it's about a boy with schizophrenia who ends up killing his own mother. The mother is a scientologist and refuses medical treatment for her son who is experiencing hallucinations and hearing voices.

Now, the mother is dead and the boy is in prison. Should any of it happened? No. Should she have let him see a professional? Definately - she would be here today and he would most likely be under control and not have his mother's blood on his hands.

It's a sad story. It does illustrate the level of brainwashing that goes on in that church though.

Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 92
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/16/2007 12:59:27 AM
This is a CULT and a discusting one at that. It is a horrible lie and it should be wiped off the face of the planet.!!

By the way OP and anyone else.....please DO NOT call this a "Church" it's not. It's a JOKE HOUSE.
Joined: 2/9/2007
Msg: 93
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/16/2007 3:28:51 AM
LOL. Haven't read throough this, too long. Money laundering... omg. If it wasn't before I bet it is now!!!

When I first heard of Scientology it sounded cool, until I looked into it. If you like wild BS try it, otherwise stick to sci-fi, more laughs. For the record, I think Celestine Prophesy is the closest we've come to merging oldworld wisdom to new world academics. And I never liked L. Ron. Hubbard. Always got a bad vibe.
Joined: 12/31/2006
Msg: 94
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 3/17/2007 4:40:13 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if Tom Cruise just turns his back on that cult, if they don't turn their back on him first and then that cult house will be revealed to be the joke that it always was.

If Tom knows what the right thing to do, he would split out of there, find the nearest Bible and/or a Bible beleiving Church (whichever he comes across first), and just smarted up and leave that junk called scientology......and YES I think it's junk.
Joined: 12/15/2006
Msg: 95
view profile
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/30/2007 9:05:47 PM
When I see a small handful of people criticizing a philosophy, religion, or individual and especially pretending to know something about it when they really don't, or while twisting the truth into a new work of fiction, it becomes very clear to me why there is war, crime, hate and violence. Freedom of speech is too often abused for the purpose of harming others with lies and protecting those who would so harm. It's the same attitude that promotes racial prejudice, the destruction of family values, responsible use of one's rights etc. Those who don't enjoy bad mouthing others with lies and rumors, don't tend to reply to these small groups that gather around on a forum to do harm to others like this. I usually don't read more than the first line or so of such trash, but this time I thought I'd drop in let the silent readers know that if they are tired of these kinds of attitudes in forum, they might reply - not to argue and get in the mud with them, but just drop a response to let other readers know that they are only a small handful and not the majority by any means. I think the majority dislike rumor mongering and destructive 'opinions based on false or incomplete information. All religions suffer from these small handfuls - and from the media, with its hidden sources and fabricated facts, which simply has to create shock to keep controversy alive to make money. Note that one can never defend oneself from the media because they are fighting hidden shadows who often are made up or twisted by the reporter him or herself. Reporters are 'trained' to twist and shape facts to make someone look bad or good when they are really the opposite. But with YouTube and such, we won't need the media to communicate truth anymore. We have a place from which to communicate. We, being any and all faith, groups, and individuals.
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 96
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/30/2007 9:34:51 PM

I thought I'd drop in let the silent readers know that if they are tired of these kinds of attitudes in forum, they might reply - not to argue and get in the mud with them, but just drop a response to let other readers know that they are only a small handful and not the majority by any means.

So what you seem to be saying then, is instead of replying with some form of cogent argument and supporting it with some kind of documentary evidence to back up a point, it's just easier to tar the lot with an ad hominem attack, calling it rumour and innuendo and trash, and then appeals to the majority, emotion, etc.

The very reason freedom of speech is so important is so that one can hold and make an unpopular assertion and attempt to defend it in an articulate way. What you seem to suggest runs counter to that by littering the field with logical fallacy.

Freedom of speech is too often abused for the purpose of harming others with lies and protecting those who would so harm.

Not dissimilar to $cientology's misrepresentation of psychiatry, pharmacology, and medicine?

Why do you suppose the German legal system, noted for it's monolithic precision and meticulous examination of law decided to ban $cientology with it's borders? Pique?
It is a fact, not an opinion that this organization was convicted of criminal offenses in has the distinction of being the only "church" with that record.
Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 97
view profile
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 7/31/2007 12:10:16 AM
There's a church of Scientology near where I live; the other day I went past it and saw a "Now Hiring" sign. I thought, "I've got to get a picture of that!" because I was looking for a job, and my friends all know I'm critical of Scientology.

I walked past it today wearing dark sunglasses (as this was to be a covert mission - haha) and a camera in my backpack. I stopped across the street and snapped the first photo you see here, and immediately the woman visible in the second photo came out to talk to me. Here's the exchange:

Her: May I help you?
Me: I'm just taking photos.
Her: For what purpose?
Me: Some of my friends may find them humorous.
Her: We don't allow photographs to be taken of our building.
Me: I'm on a public street, not your property. I haven't harmed you in any way.
Her: OK

Then she walked away, probably because I stopped taking pictures and was putting my camera away. Or maybe she realized I knew there was nothing she could really do about it.
Joined: 12/7/2007
Msg: 98
view profile
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 5/25/2008 1:19:53 PM
Years ago as a teenager I had issues that my mother felt needed to be addressed by a psychiatrist. She got me to see this guy who was an expert in hypnosis and in helping people to quit smoking. I spent two hours with the guyand he made absolutely no impact on my life whatsoever. I'll never forget how he hounded my mother for the $200 he claimed she owed hin for services rendered. He did absolutely nothing, and yet he demanded $100 an hour for sitting on a couch and making small talk.

Decades later I walked through the doors of the Church of Scientology in LA looking for a job as a building custodian. I'll spare the details of a long circuitous story and get to the nut of it. I was given the opportunity to engage in sixty hours of dianetic auditing with a person who was apparently learning to do the process. Nothing in my entire experience on this planet has had as big an impact on my life. It did not cost me anything but my time, and a willingness to confront some excruciatingly painful stuff.

Well I am a Scientologist because of that experience, and because of the fact that everything I've experienced with this organisation, has been powerful, life altering, and positive.

Am I the only person on this site who has read and getrs Dianetics?? Hard to believe.
Joined: 10/29/2006
Msg: 99
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 5/25/2008 2:13:09 PM
Apparently it costs roughtly $20,000 US to reach OTIII, and start hearing about this Lord Xenu and his hydrogen bombs.

I like this video too.
 perry lee
Joined: 3/26/2008
Msg: 100
Your thoughts on the Church of Scientology
Posted: 5/25/2008 6:17:19 PM
I use dianetics and it works, I'm also still a Christian, I got into it years ago and
it helped me in areas of my life other methods failed to do. You learn to fix your problems yourself instead of doing nothing but praying to have them fixed.
The people are real and not hipocrites too, In Scientology whats right for me might not be right for you, They don't tell you how to live, You learn the best way for yourself!
I also never gave them any money as I got all the books ect. on Ebay.
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