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 d-belle
Joined: 6/7/2005
Msg: 5
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It .... Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Like everything in love and hate, it can get messy. It's very easy to take advantage....heck, I could have applied for it, but I didn't.

It's like.......if your situation would not have changed regardless of having your relationship, then there is no reason for it, however, if it was because of your relationship that you got ahead, then yeah, I agree with it.

edit: ^^^^^ I'm a working mom and I agree with her argument MI.
 Little Lady
Joined: 4/2/2005
Msg: 8
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History
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 5/10/2006 7:58:02 PM
And then there are some that become disable during the marriage, who didn't work to put into cpp, and can't get support from welfare until the seperation is settled. The few that get in the cracks of the system should be helped by a program like support.

If a spouse does not support his wife working during the marriage, then support should be there. If he is not helping support his wife while in the home together, or while seperated then he will have more income to raise his standard of living while hers deterates. She may even have to live in a slum house until the court order some help, or the matrimonial home is sold.

Edit: Sorry for the he/she, it can be she/he.
 Leeanne
Joined: 10/14/2005
Msg: 10
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History
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 5/10/2006 8:16:51 PM
Alimony - I just don't get it - really I just don't get it - never got child support either - That's what happens when alcoholics destroy thier lives - they ruin thier families as well. Consider yourselves lucky if you even get a dime.
 Diggy03
Joined: 4/7/2005
Msg: 20
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History
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 5/12/2006 12:53:15 PM
I think in most cases it is used to hurt the spouse who makes or did make the greater amount of money.

In todays day and age the majority of women can hold their own. If you happened to get involved with or even marry an individual who cannot commit to you or no longer wants relations with you and chooses to end the relationship however they deem fit (or vise versa) .. well, let them go. WHy does everything have to be about revenge?

Anyways.. if anyone is used to a certain type of lifestyle and way of being "kept" well I would hope they were smart enough to get institutionalized education of some sort so that they may be able to continue to afford their prefferred lifestyle. I see no need for anyone to continue doing it for you. There is no need to depend on anyone but yourself for your own happiness.
 twisted40
Joined: 8/3/2005
Msg: 25
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 5/12/2006 5:05:54 PM
LMAO Northy Girl, I dont get child support either!! (although I will in due time..hahahah)
 Smarts and Heart
Joined: 12/15/2009
Msg: 38
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 4/7/2010 12:12:57 PM

Remeber, no one can force you to look after the kids or not work, it can be requested/asked/demanded from your partner but the ultimate decision is yours!!


Where does that leave the kids ( which took 2 people to conceive)? With a nanny?
( Approx. $1200 monthly plus room and board), or day care, if they're old enough( at $1000/ per child monthly)? Add in clothing, car payments, car insurance, gas, and car maintenance, all required to get to work. A woman would have to be bringing home at least $3000 a month net just to break even! How many jobs pay that?
On top of that, since she's working full time all other domestic and parental responsibilities should be shared evenly!

It's always the one who cares and loves the most that "chooses" and "decides" to stay home when there isn't another option. Fortunately the courts and intelligent people understand that!
I can understand the choices and sacrifices people make to have one parent stay home and commend them, and that should be acknowledged when a marriage breaks up.

I'm not speaking from experience, we were very fortunate in that I came from a close and caring family, where my parents, the grand-parents, cared for my kids. You cannot imagine what a debt of gratitude that is in itself! It was never appreciated by my ex.
When we separated, assets were divided equally and I never wanted a penny in alimony, even though I was unemployed, (he got the business), while I went back to school right after our separation. With 2 kids and myself in school and no income, I didn't ask for a penny. Worked part-time and used my equity for the first 2 years. Just wanted him gone!
Now 4 years later, divorced, paying back the line of credit and getting back on my feet, I'm happy and fulfilled!
He's lost the business, (tells you who the driving force was?) , his assets are long gone (lasted as long as the "love" of the girl friend), and he's crying to the kids that he f**ked up his life!
I was fortunate to have a strong family support system, and a the strong character and drive to succeed, but I can understand the need for alimony for those who don't.
Like everything in life there are always those who abuse every system, but you can't punish everyone . Karma's a b**ch and takes care of most injustices!
 BFLP
Joined: 7/25/2010
Msg: 39
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 8/27/2010 11:37:05 PM
In most cases couple share their income and bills and staying home to raise kids is income because you dont have to pay out after tax dollars for childcare. So the idea of alimony is to continue to share until both parties can be independent which depends on age of children and how they are to be raised plus ability of both to work at decent wages. To just abolsih alimony for everyone is as heartless as saying to all children day you turn eighteen out the door no more support or money for you because some children can do it all must. Now i agree maybe a tweaking of alimony laws should happen now that most people are two income families but dont abolish it . Never throw baby out with bathwater when it gets dirty
 col. kurtz
Joined: 4/7/2010
Msg: 41
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 9/10/2010 4:20:58 PM
Pay what you owe and man the F@@K up.
 Limerence2
Joined: 11/10/2008
Msg: 42
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History
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 9/22/2010 1:16:26 PM
There was a time when the low earning spouse (mostly women) did not get their justice when the relationship ended. I believe things have moved too far the other way now. Money usually comes from effort and this effort is very often not shared. One can play while the other works. There can be a need for some support in some cases. But in the end, the person who works the most, when separated (no longer in contract with the other) should make the most.
 JP1111
Joined: 4/13/2008
Msg: 43
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 9/22/2010 8:23:17 PM
When separating, it is the parent who does not have custody of the child who pays child support. If joint custody is at play, then neither parent will pay custody to the other.
Alimony is not ridiculous since costs are always at play for children (rent, food, heat etc...). Granted the child will not pay rent but the parent will to pay for the rent that he/she has. The amount of money that the parent who does not have custody will pay is given on the alimony web site for Ontario. That amount will be based on the income level of that parent who needs to pay alimony.

One can think of quitting their job in order not to pay alimony (I have heard of people doing that) but let's face it, that's not a smart idea.
 father3
Joined: 7/11/2006
Msg: 44
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Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 9/30/2010 7:29:09 PM

If joint custody is at play, then neither parent will pay custody to the other.


I assume you mean "pay child support". In Ontario you can have joint custody and still be required to pay child support if one income is far greater than the other.


Alimony is not ridiculous since costs are always at play for children (rent, food, heat etc...). Granted the child will not pay rent but the parent will to pay for the rent that he/she has.


The question is about alimony, which in Ontario law is defined as spousal support. Spousal support is not child support. You seem to have thye two mixed up or combined the two as one entity. Child support continues until the children are 18 and living at home and can be extended if the children continue on with higher education beyond 18. There is not an alimony website for Ontario. There is however a chart to calculate child support based on income and number of children involved.

On the topic of alimony (spousal support).

In Ontario law, and most other jurisdictions, a marriage is a partnership much like a business partnership. When a marriage dissolves (ie divorce/separation) both parties are entitled to the assets of the marriage (business). The division of assets accumulated during the marriage is equal regardless of how much each partner earned during the marriage. Also both parties share in the debts accumulated during a marriage regardless of which party took on the debt. The amounts shared only apply to amounts accumulated during the marriage. This is called equalization.

Spousal support is much more complicated than equalization and there is no set fornmula to determine how much either party will have to pay to the other. The law takes into account many factors, a few of which are;
1. the length of the marriage
2. the difference in current earnings
3. the loss of earning potential due to the marriage - two examples would be; did one party forego a career or suspend a career to stay at home to raise children? or move to advance the career of the other? etc In some cases, but seen less and less in our modern times, the partners of the marriage decided that one party (usually the woman) wouldn't work outside of the house at all.

There is an assumption in family law in Ontario that once a marriage dissolves that both parties will make all attempts to be self sufficient in time and not rely on the other party for income support. The shorter the marriage was, the shorter the amount of time spousal support will be awarded.
 aemulus
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 45
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 10/11/2010 6:36:43 AM
Here is a concept given the information above in this debate:

He works
She "helped" him get there

Was this something not talked about when the relationship was "loving". I am sorry, but a lot of women feel that their "help" is needed, when really it's just something to do in order to "feel" useful.

In the case of paying for someone else simply because TOGETHER their lifestyle was different.... well... isn't that the whole point of being TOGETHER. To strive to move forward and share in hopefully a better and happier existance. If things fall apart, then why should one person be forced into handing out treasures to the one who is getting the crummier end of the bargain. That's LIFE!! Deal with it! Life isn't all about hand-outs and happy-happy joy-joy. Shit happens, and usually in the case of a relationship gone south (especially one thats gone far enough to even be considered for alimony), one or both or more parties were involved in making the decision, or the cause of the decision --- In any case, it was by choice. So... IMO ... if you really want the better lifestyle that being TOGETHER has provided --- SUCK IT UP, and stick TOGETHER!! Otherwise, deal with whatever plate you are dealt and stop pushing your needy lifestyle on others. Marriage is about sharing -- in obligation, and other ways. Once the Marriage is ended, then there is no obligation needed to share -- you have ended your existance as a couple when you end your marriage. But divorce is so common now, people tend to forget the whole "til death do us part" portion ... lots of people who "were" married, but aren't dead yet either... hmm....

My best advice to any man out there. No matter how loving the relationship is, get a pre-nup as conditions on marriage in the event of seperation. Without it, she can cheat, or whatever, and still end up with 1/2 of whatever you earned. I believe if people go their seperate ways, they go with what they came in with. IE, if you never worked a day in your life, should the other person give you a fat welfare cheque (sorry... alimony... terms are mixed sometimes)... is that really fair ?.. How would you feel if you had to cough up a large chunk of your earnings to someone who just sits at home by choice.

Another pointer -- to the discussion above where he made 100,000 / year.... thats plenty to afford a babysitter while she works ... so, sitting at home was a choice on her part, not his. She could very easily have gone out and gotten a job, or school, or both.

Earn your damn living damn-it you lazy bums!
 aemulus
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 46
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 10/11/2010 6:40:36 AM
On a site note, the whole paying for someone else because of an imbalance in income --- consider the following

1. both people work
2. one person has no desire to work so quits and leeches welfare
3. other person now has to "compensate" for the income differece

WTF!!!

How does THAT math add up ?
 father3
Joined: 7/11/2006
Msg: 47
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Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 10/12/2010 4:47:57 PM

1. both people work
2. one person has no desire to work so quits and leeches welfare
3. other person now has to "compensate" for the income differece

WTF!!!

How does THAT math add up ?


THAT math doesn't add up. You've presented a scenario that isn't one in which someone (a) could collect (leech) welfare. You can't quit working in this country anywhere with the intention of collecting welfare. And (b) would be ordered to compensate the other for the income difference.

A marriage is a business partnership. All income in the marriage is considered income to this business. If one earns $100,000 and the other earns $40000 the partnership was earning $140000. Upon disolution of this partnership the income should still be split 50/50, that is both parties continue with $70000.

The length of time one would have to compensate the other by $30000 is dependent on many factors. If two people were married for only five years, the compensation wouldn't carry on for very long. If the marriage lasted 35 years, one would probably have to compensate the other for ever after.
 forumrum
Joined: 5/25/2009
Msg: 48
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 10/25/2010 11:43:24 AM
Staying home is not the same as working outside the home. Sorry to those of you who drink and preach this koolaid. I was a single father to three kids.

She sat on her ass while the kids were in school. How do I know this?

Because after I became a single parent, I cooked, cleaned, packed lunches, took them to all their activities and worked full time. My house was never cleaner or my kids better looked after or well fed.

She helped me in my career? She was a financial and emotional drain. A succubus. I would have been further ahead in my career but for her being in my life.

So to anyone who says working in the home is the same as working outside the home, I say I would have traded working outside the home anyday to be able to sit home and only look after the kids and house. Not even close.
 RubyGurl10
Joined: 9/30/2010
Msg: 49
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 11/4/2010 3:06:09 AM
I do not believe anyone should get alimony, if things dont work out in a relationship, a spouse should not have to be punished and have to pay the other...People need to stand on their own two feet and look after themselves, child support is another thing, that should be paid, as children do not ask to be born, as parents we need to look after them til they are of age...
 heckifiknow
Joined: 5/31/2011
Msg: 50
Alimony .... I Just Don't Get It ....
Posted: 6/25/2011 3:27:13 PM
I get alimony and I worked but I became disabled. I can still do some work and man I try. He makes $100,000 a year and I make maybe $25,000 a year.
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