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 czgeek
Joined: 5/19/2006
Msg: 14
Is chivalry dead and gone?Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

I believe you miss the question.....I am a very chivalry person...That is who i am.....But i do hope you do not think this is what majority of women like......If you think that way then that is your opinion...My experences in life tell me otherwise...


Actually no, I don't think its what the majority of women like, especially younger women. Although I do believe that if you grouped it into age ranges, you would find that chivalry probably matters to a serious *minority* of women under the age of 30-35, when they are looking for 'excitement' and the whole "bad-boy" thing, and that after that age, if we took decades, you would find that every decade past 30 it would become more and more of a majority. Thats my personal experience anyways (being over 40). Constantly trying to "fix" the bad-boy I'm sure is a very tiring experience after 10 years.

I am a much different person at 42 (in 2 months) than I was at 22, and I know many of the women I have known for most of those years have also changed. To expect anyone to remain the same over the years is silly, we all have different experiences in life, and those experiences change us. Ask any woman who married her "bad boy" at 25 and divorced him in her early 30's if she's the same person she was at 25, I guarentee the answer is "no" (although some will go back there anyways).

Yes, I know a couple of women, some older than me, that have dated "bad-boys" one after another, and most of them are pretty miserable. Their life's choices, not mine, thankfully.

I would add to your comment, BTW, that in my experience I would also say that a far *larger* majority of Men are interested in nothing but sex without really caring about the person, and so there is quite a large pool of beer drinking, self-centered, ill mannered men available to those women who want the bad-boy to date.
 mr.classicchevy
Joined: 2/27/2005
Msg: 15
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/20/2006 12:25:49 PM
Yes !!!^^^^^I guess that is why the divorce rate is higher on the second marriage in this country compared to the first......I am 40....I think i know what is right and wrong...If you do not think chivalry and morals are going down..Then that is your opinion on life...It sure is not what i have seen in my lifetime....
 czgeek
Joined: 5/19/2006
Msg: 16
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/20/2006 12:51:10 PM

I guess that is why the divorce rate is higher on the second marriage in this country compared to the first


Actually, I think most people that get married for the first time do it with the *intention* of it being for life (I'll discount the damn article I read the other year about young 'yuppies' - if we can still use that term - in NYC and the latest fad being "starter marriages", basically a 'mutual arm-candy' marriage of convenience with the expectation it won't last... ), and thus tend to try harder in a first marriage to make it work, and in the long run, a marriage *is* a lot of work and compromise, and that may actually *save* a higher percentage of first marriages.

Whereas in a second marriage, I would think people are less willing to "put up with their sh*t", having been through it once already.

As to whether I think chivalry and morals are going down, by all means I *agree* with you. But I think that has more to do with the moral climate of the country and how the younger generations are being raised, than it does with anything to do with "most women like jerks". Although I suppose you could argue that if most women like jerks, than more women are having kids with the "jerk" gene (if there is such a thing), thereby increasing the percentage of young jerk men, and increasing the percentage of young women raised in family watching their mothers accept their fathers "jerk" behaviours and their brothers being jerks, and thinking its normal and acceptable. I'm not totally sure I'd buy that argument tho. :-P
 mr.classicchevy
Joined: 2/27/2005
Msg: 17
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/20/2006 1:03:39 PM
That is what i am trying to get across...I do not know where you live,But here in Florida it is normal for a woman to have 3 kids but no man in the house....About 8 out of 10 are doing it without a man in the house....And marriage...That is pretty much out of the question...And i agree on how kids are being raised...In other words you have kids raising (SP) kids...And as a result this is what is going on in society...DISRESPECT!!!!
 giggleparts
Joined: 10/23/2004
Msg: 18
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/20/2006 1:09:44 PM
I think it's more likely that you are chivalrous if you are good-looking.... if you are no so good-looking, it's more like harassment.... at least that's what the lawyer's tell me....they even showed me the book it was in….. and then they laughed…… and threw lawn darts at me….. with a cannon…… made of irony.
 mr.classicchevy
Joined: 2/27/2005
Msg: 20
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/20/2006 4:16:37 PM
All i got to say to that satement^^^^^^^^^^^Go and talk to any law enforcement officer and they will tell you the facts.....From what gender calls 911 to who goes to jail....And after they get out of jail what gender runs to this type of person....And even if they do not run to this type of person...They are steady looking for the same type....Kinda like trading a 2001 ranger for a 2006.....It may be a new 2006...But it is still a ranger.....
 redhairedbeauty1
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 21
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/20/2006 6:55:50 PM
what kind of woman wouldnt what that kind of man?
 mr.classicchevy
Joined: 2/27/2005
Msg: 23
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/20/2006 7:40:20 PM
Most of what you stated is true^^I will not deny...But what does Look in a better trailor park mean...Do you mean look in some greener pasture...If so i agree.......
 KN85
Joined: 5/20/2006
Msg: 26
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/21/2006 2:10:13 AM
This was an interesting thread to read. To answer the main question here, I would have to agree with gin that it really is based on how you were raised. I was raised mostly by my mother to treat girls with respect. Unfortunately for me, I had to learn the hard way that some girls don't deserve respect because they don't show anybody else any. Also, some guys uphold chivalry because any guy that knows anything about dating knows that making first impressions like that with a girl, also known as the little things, are what counts. It's what makes a girl feel really special and important when you do these little chivalrous acts.

Unfortunately, most of us guys do not see the need to anymore as we see how independent most women have gotten and how some do not like this kind of treatment because it comes off as us guys belittling them, so most of us guys don't even bother anymore.
 KN85
Joined: 5/20/2006
Msg: 31
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/21/2006 12:36:56 PM
Yeah, I have noticed that if a girl really does like a guy, then she will be more inclined to let him perform these little chivalrous acts as opposed to guys that she doesn't like. Just a little subtle tip here for other guys who are wondering what signs a girl will show if she really is interested in you or not.
 czgeek
Joined: 5/19/2006
Msg: 32
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/21/2006 1:44:20 PM

I do not know where you live,But here in Florida it is normal for a woman to have 3 kids but no man in the house....About 8 out of 10 are doing it without a man in the house...


Thank you Gini, love youre comments, but as to the above from the "heel man", uh, what is wrong with a single woman with 3 kids? Ok, I've never dated one w/ 3 kids, but I've dated a couple with 2 kids each, and they were *wonderful* mothers, and very independant, never *asked* me for anything (although of course, I would offer, and they would sometimes accept, sometimes not, their choice).

I dunno, maybe the "heel" was hurt by one of them. Heck, maybe one of them is his ex-wife or something. I personally believe that generalizations, "all men" or "all women" are silly. And yes, I know a couple of women who have dated a string of "jerks", I befriended one for a while, but the continuous "drama" was just way too much for me, I don't need that in my life, and I backed away. I certainly am not here to "save" anyone from themselves.

of course, on your comment, that voice in the womans head with "he's just trying to get into your pants! He's evil! They all lie! He wants to prove you're helpless!" -- haha, got a good laugh out of that, but could be true in *some* cases. :-) But, watch how someone acts... Yes, I hold the door for cute women ;-) .. I also hold the door for old ladies, old men, women with children and their husband in tow, little kids who can barely manage to open the door, and heck, just about anybody if they're behind me (or on their way in while I'm going out). I'm not so sure its "chivalry" so much as common courtesy, just like saying "thanks" when I've had the door held for me.
 mr.classicchevy
Joined: 2/27/2005
Msg: 34
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/21/2006 3:24:50 PM
Got it all figured out^^^^^^^^^Good for you!!!!!!!!
 purplestardust101
Joined: 4/27/2006
Msg: 35
view profile
History
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/21/2006 3:31:32 PM
Dear Classygent...DEFINITE Asset!!!!!!!!!!!
~Micheline~
 verygreeneyez
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 38
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 6/13/2006 7:36:00 PM
It's not dead. It's just hard to find. I certainly don't blame men for that. Women have sort of dug a hole for ourselves, I fear. No need to get into the specifics, but I think men would like to treat ladies like ladies, however, it is constantly beat into them that "we are your equal" so who's to know when it's appropriate to be more "old fashioned" ??? Some women don't like the doors opened, they do the initial calling, they initiate emailing first, etc. Somewhere ~ the roles just got intertwined and it's iffy to know who wants chivalry and who prefers a more "equality" approach. I want the chivalry, and in return ~ I'll be the same. I do NOT email first, I do not call unless there is a pre-arrangement that I plan on calling, etc. I think that he'll call when he has time ~ I don't wait around, but I'm not going to get into a role reversal. It just makes things weird and complicated later. (Maybe this is why I haven't been on a date in over two years!! LMAO)
 RAZ49
Joined: 2/10/2004
Msg: 42
view profile
History
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 11/16/2006 10:26:19 AM
I was raised to open doors for women, let them enter the room first, walk behind going up-stairs and walk first going down, carry the heavy items and hold the door for anyone behind you and so on and today I see so many guys that don't do any of that and it really pisses me off that they are so self consumed. What really gets me though is a while back while starting to enter a store I held the door for this woman and she yelled at me! She told me she was perfectly capable of getting the door and didn't need a man to do it for her. I was so shocked I couldn't speak. What ever happened to good maners? I hold the door for anyone behind me, not just women and half the time they never say 'thank you', they just walk in. My respone is always a hearty "you're welcome" which usually gets a dirty look.
 settler
Joined: 6/14/2006
Msg: 43
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 11/16/2006 10:43:57 AM
One has to understand what is meant by old fashoned chivalry. This type of behavior was a way of separating the genders and recognizing that each is different. These are some of the behaviors that men of my age were taught as children. (1) Sexual remarks, as well as swearing, was not publicly used in mixed groups. (2) Men were to open doors, allowing a woman to walk through a door first. This included one's daily life i.e. entering a bank etc. (3) A male did not talk aggressively towards a lady . (4) Physical aggression was not allowed. If one was physically aggressive towards a lady, he was considered a sissy. (5) A male phones a lady for a date. Usually this was done on Wednesday evening. The lady never phoned until they were a couple.(6) The male always pays. (7) Because the pill was new, sex was not recreational. (8) When a women left a table or returned to a table, when dining out, all males present were expected to rise.
Women, for there part, recognized these as expected behaviors and would evaluate the male accordingly.
Also, when in school, All children were expected to stand when addressing a teacher.
Women need to explain how they want to be treated. Civilaty between people was the expected norm. Chilvalry between the sexes was something different.
 SteveHD
Joined: 3/9/2005
Msg: 44
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 11/16/2006 11:20:32 AM

Men today are basically to into their selves to think of consideration


It's just not strongly encouraged anymore and discouraged in some areas.

Idealy, yes we would live in a world where men are always gentlemen and women are always ladies and those roles were a little better defined.

Find a way to make chivalry seem like a wiser, better, and more profitable course of action. Start simple, start with people you know.

I think there is some confusion too as was stated earlier. When I walk into a church, someone's home or most places, I take off my hat out of respect...thats not chivalry.

The gen X'ers and those after them that some of the older folks are griping about grew up in a "smack my b!tch up" world. Last I checked I'm not seeing June Cleaver shaking her booty and apron on MtV.

With that...we do live in a more modern time, so women don't hesitate to let a man know when he did something you appreciate. It doesn't have to be someone you're romantically interested in. Just encourage the behavior when you see it.
 settler
Joined: 6/14/2006
Msg: 45
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 11/18/2006 12:25:56 PM
Hi--- I lived in a time when this question was never even thought about. It was a time when certain behaviors such as opening doors was expected and the norm. Today life is different. Women have moved into a male world. They have and expect the same rights as a male. The male, for his part, has lost his identity. There are very few opportunities of expression that can be identified as only masculine.
The media has also contributed to this problem. Both men and women are aggressive to both their own sex and the oppostie.
Aggression appears to be a sign of strength. It is interesting that in a culture such as Nepal, there is little social aggression. Basic survival is so difficult. Carrying 200 pounds of rice into the mountains leaves little need to prove oneself (unlike here)
Money seems to be a major problem. I understand the cause but don't understand the logic in some females. In this culture both men and women have the same educational and employment opportunites (50% 0f engineering student at Queens are women) Yet I hear that some women feel that a male should pay because he earns more.
Chilvalry existed when there was a feeling that the sexes were different. At that time the socal expectations were different. If males should show chivalry, then what behavior mark a women as feminine. To me it appears, that in today's world, the only female social identification is sex.
 Cesar C
Joined: 6/9/2008
Msg: 47
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 4/13/2009 1:08:47 PM
Yeah chivalry is dead.. And women see it as a guy with no game.

But you dont have to change it. Do it but dont go overboard. Only when its convinet for you. Women like to think they can do things themself.

As far as the women your going after.. Probaly hate nice guys.. Attractive women like jerks because it excites them. They could take 10 nice guys home with them if they want. They want a challange. Say something shocking but not rude. NEVER kiss ass. And respect youself first. Your gonna have to live with youself forever.
 thecatsmeoww
Joined: 3/7/2009
Msg: 48
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/26/2009 6:26:39 AM
As a woman I appreciate a man with good manners. When he opens a door or walks on the outside, orders the meal etc. Yes we are perfectly capable of doing this ourselves but it speaks to me of his upbringing.

Women still know how to play down somewhat in relationships so as to give the man the leading role.

As for what behavior marks a woman as forever feminine? We love to nurture and still carry babies and deliver them. We nurse them and care for them. We find ourselves often filling two roles? Working a full time jobs at home while we are raising our children into being fine adults..

I do not think we have lost being femme..In fact our characters have not changed at all just the work load has..

As for the who pays issue I think most people go dutch when first meeting? After that it would really depend on who can afford what?

thecatsmeoww
 Sheldon86
Joined: 11/4/2008
Msg: 49
view profile
History
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/26/2009 6:54:40 AM
In a world of equal rights chivalry is less common but not unheard of, also it has changed over the years what was considered chivalrous years ago is not now I suppose I should say rather than faded out it's changed and evolved from what it was 20, hell even 10 years ago there are still women out there who love the holding doors for them, pulling out chairs, and their men willing to defend their honer, but given the era of equality and independence not all women find that attractive. So new forms of chivalry have developed and the old version of it has faded.
 JerseyGirl2008
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 51
Is chivalry dead and gone?
Posted: 5/26/2009 2:45:52 PM
Textures Awake said:

"Chivalry is dead...and women killed it". A small minority of extremist feminazi's have pretty much ruined it for everyone else.

I think you're absolutely right. Not every single woman on earth was out beating her chest and burning her bra along with the rest of them. I actually prefer an alpha male because the ones I've met are all about chivalry and treating a lady like a lady.

Hey, call me a dinosaur, I don't care.
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