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 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 109
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speechPage 2 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
I hope they make more money than God off of this CD,...

They are,..IMO,...among the MOST talented groups out there,...

musically,....vocally,..and lyrically,...and with every nickle that rolls in,..in the form of royalties,...they are vindicated I lost all respect for the land of the FREE (speech) after that debacle,.... so,..go girls go

I said the same thing then,...and was thouroughly bashed for my trouble,...but then again I don't have a carreer to be taken away,...so I didn't care....and the only one who really wants to see me dead is my ex,...
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 111
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/7/2006 10:11:48 AM

I lost all respect for the land of the FREE (speech) after that debacle,.... so,..go girls go

How do you mean? Free Speech is only acceptable when you agree with it? The people who spoke out against the DC position were merely exercising their same constitutional rights... last time I looked no one was jailed, so free speech was in no way impugned...
If you're trying to connect free speech with popularity amongst consumers, that has nothing to do with freedom of speech. They lost income because of the forum they utilized, which is THEIR fault, no one else’s. Had Ms. Mains spoke her mind in a magazine interview, I doubt there would have been a lot of fall out. Because she chose to espouse her beliefs to a gathering of thousands, it came back and bit her...
No one is disputing her right to speak her mind on political issues, but those of us who don't happen to agree with her position think it was a boneheaded way of communicating it to the rest of the world...
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 112
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/7/2006 11:14:11 AM
no free speech is not just for things and situations I or anyone agree with,...
however any rebuttal that comes with a death threat which is in fact what happened afterwards,...I don't think should be accepted anymore than saying BOMB,...or FIRE, or Hijack,....not all speech is or indeed should be free,....
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 113
Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/7/2006 11:18:11 AM
I think the big problem was that Clear Channel made a corporate decision immediately to stop playing their music. This wasn't in response to a big populist movement, just a corporate effort to stifle dissent. If you speak out, you won't get air play on the biggest radio network in the country.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 115
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/8/2006 6:41:53 AM

Couldn't agree with you more. But the problem with that is, the ppl who disagree with them, usually do so with a bible in one hand and a sword in the other. the ones that yell the loudest any way.

Talk about stereo typing! That's no different than my saying whoever agrees with them has a bowl of granola in one hand and is hugging a tree with the other... Or, (my personal favorite) making movies about Global Warming with one hand, and waving to the crowd from the door of his private jet with the other...
I'm not a religious zealot, and not exactly a Bush fan... I don't see it as an issue of freedom of speech at all, but rather a poor decision preceded by defective thinking. Sort of like Ted Danson and his black-face skit, Tom Cruise and his psychiatry rant or Ross Perot and his nighttime Ninja’s…
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 116
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/8/2006 6:59:47 AM

If you speak out, you won't get air play on the biggest radio network in the country.

I think there was a lot more too it than that.... several radio stations (not just Clear Channel affiliates), night clubs, and music stores had scheduled CD destruction events... running over piles of their CD's with bull dozers, setting fire to DC posters and other memorabilia, etc. It wasn't merely a corporate staged event; this was genuine fan distaste for the group’s outspoken political leanings.
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 117
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/8/2006 9:47:18 AM
So as an American citizen,...
do they give you, the manual with your citizenship certificate?

you may speak your mind,...
but only under these circumstances,..
in this manner,..to these people,...
and only if you opinion follows the popular opinion of the time,...

you know there was a lot more that happened following this besides banning their music,..
destroying their cd's,....they had death threats against them

death threats,...as I understand it is NOT covered by freedom of speech,...
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 118
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/8/2006 12:14:30 PM
So as an American citizen,...
do they give you, the manual with your citizenship certificate?

No, they simply hope you have enough common sense to know when and where it's appropriate to speak your mind.


you may speak your mind,...
but only under these circumstances,..
in this manner,..to these people,...
and only if you opinion follows the popular opinion of the time,...

Again, just a little common sense... You can't walk into a crowded theater and yell fire just to practice exercising your constitutional rights...


you know there was a lot more that happened following this besides banning their music,..
destroying their cd's,....they had death threats against them

death threats,...as I understand it is NOT covered by freedom of speech,...

You're correct, threatening someone is not considered a constitutional right, so why do you insist on linking the two? No one is disputing the rights of the Dixie Chicks to speak their minds, this is not now nor has it ever been an issue of free speech. Some uninformed person may have seen it that way, but the two are not in any way connected.
This is merely pointing out that they made a less than stellar decision as to what forum to announce their political opinions, and as a result, apparently someone(s) was / were provoked to retaliate. I'm not usually a big proponent of the defense that someone was asking for it, but if ever there was an action designed solely to stir the pot, this was it.
Part of free speech / expression is accepting the consequences that may befall you for exercising those rights... She should not have had her life threatened, I agree … clinics should not be bombed, and people that wear fur should not have paint thrown on them and so on...
Common sense dictates that as long as there are two sides to an issue, conflicts have the potential to escalate; but it's kind of stupid to get mad at the wind when you're the one who made the decision to spit into it....
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 119
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/8/2006 12:42:01 PM
I didn't link the two,..but the number of death threats they received,...links them,...

and anyone who has ever heard nNatalie speak knows that she's a very off the cuff kind of girl who often speaks before thinking things through,....she did not nor does not have any political affiliation nor any particular draw to either side,...

She was simply speaking her mind in lou of the impending war that she saw Americans being led into,...

and here's the thing that's been overlookes as of late,...
she was right,...Bush did lead you into a war,...

one that prooved to have no actuall basis in facts,...

and he does come from Texas,..and today Natalie is anytrhing but alone in her opinion that she's ashamed he's from her state,...

sometimes the worst sin,...is timing,....because today,...
she would have far more people agreeing with her than sending her death threats,...
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 120
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/8/2006 1:09:23 PM
I didn't link the two,..but the number of death threats they received,...links them,...

I still don't see it.... there is no exclusion clause in the constitution pertaining to unpopular opinions. There is a bit of common sense expected...
A member of the KKK has the right to walk onto the stage of the Apollo Theater in Harlem and begin preaching white supremacy. He has every right to, but would you think perhaps he should have picked a more message friendly crowd? Would you feel it bad if he got death threats? Would you be up in arms about his consitutional rights being impugned by a crowd that didn't agree with his opinions?


and anyone who has ever heard nNatalie speak knows that she's a very off the cuff kind of girl who often speaks before thinking things through,....she did not nor does not have any political affiliation nor any particular draw to either side,...

She was simply speaking her mind in lou of the impending war that she saw Americans being led into,...

Just judging from her actions, I don't think she's demonstrated enough maturity for ME to consider her opinion worth listening to.


and here's the thing that's been overlookes as of late,...
she was right,...Bush did lead you into a war,...

one that prooved to have no actuall basis in facts,...

Oh here we go straight to WMD's again... try to stay focused on topic


and he does come from Texas,..and today Natalie is anytrhing but alone in her opinion that she's ashamed he's from her state,...
for the 438th time, no one cares that she spoke her mind, it's the manner and location in which she did it that people seem to be bothered by most. We all have opinions, and we all speak them, some more eloquently than others, but I haven't heard anyone say the DC's didn't have the right to speak their mind...


sometimes the worst sin,...is timing,....because today,...
she would have far more people agreeing with her than sending her death threats,...

Actually we're having the discussion today, and that doesn't seem to be the case....
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 122
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/8/2006 4:18:18 PM
their new CD,..is now of #1,...for the second week,...
having sold 800,000 copies,....

How's Bush's number's????

 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 123
Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/8/2006 8:49:21 PM
In the radio business you want to be talked about, create some buzz. From a business standpoint the smartest thing to do would be to play the Chicks. A lot. You get people talking you get people tuning in. Besides even the majority of country music fans agree with them now. The decision not to play them is strictly one of retribution.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 125
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/9/2006 6:19:01 AM

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man; brave, hated, and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot." - Mark Twain


So.... Bush could be a patriot?
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 126
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/9/2006 6:49:40 AM

Tim, silly comparison and you know it. She said what she said in England(not Texas) in response to a question. She wasn't preaching or on a soapbox. And you won't find a more friendly anti-Bush crowd than in England. I'd say it was a very appropriate place to comment. Good thing those Founding Fathers didn't follow your views. Only voicing your opinion when everyone around agrees w/ you. Kind of cowardly if you ask me.

Why is it silly? Free speech is free speech. The rights are NOT exclusionary ... you don't have to be smart, you don't have to be popular, and your opinions certainly don't have to always be right to enjoy those freedoms. One thing you are required to do is suffer the consequences that may arise for exercising that right... everyone with common sense knows that...

That and the fact that if any were to admit that Natalie was right, i would be admitting we made a mistake electing him. And you know Republicans don't apologize...they just change the subject.

Actually I don't think that's limited to a political party, it seems to run rampant on the extreme left and right.
 TimPommell
Joined: 1/13/2005
Msg: 128
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/9/2006 11:30:31 AM

Can't figure you out Tim....it's like you want to stand up for Bush and the conservatives but just can't go all the way. Pick a side, man. Too easy to sit on the fence and bash both sides.

Odd how being in lock step with conservatives is bad, but when you actually consider each issue on it's own merit, it's bad too...
Ok, just for you, I'll pick a side ... the correct side... I am a conservative, George Bush is not... It's easy for me to not be a fan of his, the tax cuts could have been double or triple what they are had he shrunk government instead of growing it. The presence in Iraq would have been much shorter had he taken the Regan approach and simply did what needed to be done rather than ****-footing around playing politician, which turned this whole war into political fodder rather than an issue of national security.
We could take out all of Al-Qaeda in Iraq in less than a week, and all in Afganistan in slightly more than that, and allow the Iraqi troops / police to take care of their own secular insurgents ... but to do so would require a higher amount of collateral damage, something liberals such as yourself find distasteful.


It's silly because the scenario proposed to illustrate your point was totally unlike the one Natalie found herself in. Your diatribes, as you so frequently stated, was not what she said but how, when and where she said it. I wasn't placing limits on free speech...you were by suggesting that free speech should only be excercised in what YOU deemed to be an appropriate setting. An anti-Bush crowd in England would be a very appropriate setting for comments of that nature. By your own definition, a KKK member expressing his views at the Apollo would be far from appropriate(unless his intention was to get himself killed). Thus....it is a silly comparison.

My "diatribes" are actually responses to clarify the liberal waffling on the issue of free speech. She used her celibrity as a country music performer to advance her political opinions, you don't have to be a NASA employee to see that publically attacking the core beliefs of the crowd that provides your livelyhood is less than bright idea. The issue, if it is indeed free speech, must be protected and defended for both the DC and the KKK, yes? Otherwise the issue isn't free speech, it's merely support for the message, not the rights of the messenger.
 ffryan
Joined: 10/10/2005
Msg: 131
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/9/2006 10:16:26 PM
I'd pay attention if they didn't recycle the same sentences over and over again. Bush bad, bring troops home, yada yada yada.
 knoxjbp
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 132
Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/12/2006 12:08:39 PM
Do the dixie twits have the right to say what they did...of course

But as they're finding out the populace has a right to purchase, or in this case not purchase, their product. Similarly radio stations aren't carrying their new songs because their base is not only choosing not to purchase their product; but are adamantly voicing their free speech to not listen to stations that choose to play their music.

Free speech is a double edged sword; while you have the right to voice your opinions so does the average citizen. And what the dixie twits apparently didn't understand was p*ssing off their base probably wasn't the best business decision.

Of course the ignorant will accuse us southern redneck/hillbillies of stifling free speech by using our freedom of choice to not purchase the product of artists we don't believe have the same morals and values as we do.

knoxjbp
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 134
Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/12/2006 12:47:50 PM
Clearly people are buying the record - it's at the top of the country and Billboard charts. But the issue isn't whether You buy the disc. It's that corporate radio networks won't play the Number 1 Country album in the country. Last time that happened was when the Sex Pistols had the Number 1 Single and weren't played in England.
 knoxjbp
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 135
Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/12/2006 12:49:34 PM
Timid,

You are aware the Twits have had to cancel quite a few of their venues because of lack of ticket sales aren't you? While it's true they have sold 1/2 million cd's the response of their tour has been pathetic. They're avging about 6k per venue when they expected to avg around 15. Are they still making money? Yes they are; is it anywhere near what they would be making had they not pissed off their base, no.

knoxjbp
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 137
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/12/2006 2:39:06 PM
A message on the website for St. Louis' Savvis Center reads, "Due to the overwhelming demand for the Dixie Chicks in Canada, England and Australia, this concert date must be rerouted and the on-sale date will be postponed until the fall."

Sales for fall shows are strong in Canada, where the band hasn't been subjected to a three-year political firestorm and a battle with onetime fans. A concert at Toronto's 19,000-seat Air Canada Center sold out in eight minutes, prompting the addition of a second date.

Not every U.S. show is having trouble selling: The best available pair of tickets Thursday to the August 18 Minneapolis show were for limited-view, upper-level seats. But demand isn't coming close to the Chicks' 2003 tour, which sold more than 860,000 tickets in its first weekend and ultimately earned $62 million, the year's top-grossing country tour.

The band's new album continues to sell well. After selling 526,000 units its first week out, Taking the Long Way sold 271,000 copies last week.
=======================================================================

Does anyone here think the girls are hurting for money???

62,...million,.. even if you knock off 12 mill for the cost of the tour and staff pay checks,...

Somehow they don't strike me as the types to blow 50 mill between them in 3 years,...

and if I were they,..or their manager,..and I know that the rest of the globe has no problems with them or their voiced comment,..of some 3 years ago,...I would simply have the tour cover cities where we were appreciated,....and where they are virtually assured of sold out dates,.... and I would avoid those cities where I would be assured a cold shoulder.

ooohhh,...and look,..that's just what they have done,...

now my math skills are somewhat rusty but even my by my math, and considering the ticket price range is from $75.00 all the way to $7,000.00 for a luxury private box,....

for just the one toronto arena and the sold out seat capacity of 19,000
let's just say I won't be holding any telethons for them any time soon,....
and I say again go girls go,...
 knoxjbp
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 138
Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/12/2006 3:16:10 PM
No one is questioning whether the Twits are making millions...what i'm saying is were they not the politically inept pop artists they are they would be making a h*ll of a lot more money.


Buried in the press releases and media coverage about the latest album from The Dixie Chicks is the inconvenient fact that, in terms of first week sales compared to their last album (2002's Home), according to Billboard sales have plummeted 33%.


http://wizbangblog.com/2006/05/31/dixie-chicks-sales-drop-33-album-debuts-at-no-1.php

I don't know about you people but if my sales dropped 33% that would not be good news.

knoxjbp
 marita_b
Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 139
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/12/2006 3:46:27 PM
well I think I would respond im the sam,e way they are,...

by postponing their southern US tours and adding more dates to places like UK,..Canada,..and Australia,....

and for my personal observation in watching them perform,...
I rather doubt,..that they do it because of the millions of dollars,...
but, for the love and the joy of performing,...which is very obvious,..
I dare say they would be just as happy to perform to a small club
every bit as much as a concert hall seating tens of thousands,....

And I am sure that they have put their time in the supperclub type venue,...
before they became as popular as they are now,...

as for their new cd,...it's being played to death in this part of the world,..and we're loving it,..

regardless of your opinion, of their talent,....which seems very intense,...
for every one who doesn't like them there is someone else who does,...
That's why there is such a variety of styles available to please all tastes,....

according to you they are earning 6 million per concert,...as compared to 15 million,...
with some 50 or more concerts globally,...well what can't you do with 300 million that you need $750 million, for....When your dealing with those numbers,..I'm guessing not much

I'm sure there are plenty of people who would disagree with me,....
 Si_or_No
Joined: 5/23/2006
Msg: 140
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/12/2006 4:05:59 PM
I think President Bush has "pissed off" more of his base than the chicks .. any chance he'll be cancelling his "tour" anytime soon?
 toonsmith
Joined: 1/19/2005
Msg: 142
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Dixie Chicks and freedom of speech
Posted: 6/12/2006 8:54:57 PM
Well, one thing's for sure...He ain't whistling Dixie.


Toon
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