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 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 26
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I'm not easily offended but...Page 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

Why, not two consenting adults…bring in some farm animals…

Do you not think some adults would do this?


Not very many. People refrain from an act, not because of the severity of punishment or because it's illegal, but because of the liklihood that they'd get caught. Anyone who was going to do freaky garbage like this would already be doing it, because they wouldn't fear punishment, because they wouldn't get caught. The exception might be some people who would do performances for money. And frankly, I think the act would be it's own punishment.


So are you saying the pedophiles should be allowed to have sex with children, if the kid’s parents consent?


No. Not at all.

I'm saying that once people reach the age of consent, whatever it may be (I don't think it should be lower than 16, preferably 18) that the law should be concerned with protecting people from other people and not with protecting people from their own deliberate stupidity. It should make people responsible for the consequences of their own stupidity, and only curtail people's freedom when they aren't capable of taking responsibility for the consequences of their actions. Stupidity is its own punishment. Specifically, I'm not worried about whether the law is sending 'mixed messages' by allowing people to do bad or stupid things because I think that there are more ways to communicate with people than through laws and coercion. Legalizing smoking and telling people that smoking is bad for them is not a 'mixed message' in my eyes. And this is one more reason I don't want to pay for other people's health care. Let them pay for their own choices.



Okay, so we can all walk around nude and have intercourse in public places.


If it were a nude beach or some area where people, by virtue of being in the area, gave consent to seeing these kinds of things, then I don't care. I wouldn't go, but I don't care if other people do these things.


So Yes Call me a Neanderthal,


Has anyone here done that? Personally, I've tried to address what you've said and avoided ad hominem attacks.


You have to be nuts to think all adults make good decisions!


I think most adults make bad decisions. But bad decisions are their own punishment. As long as people can be held responsible for the consequences of their actions (and often they're not) then they can do as they please. That includes the right to make decisions that get themselves very sick or kill them. It boggles my mind that gambling, for instance, is illegal.

Of course, sex is tricky because diseases are communicable to unwilling parties.

Personally, I've been fined $225 for walking across some train tracks because the gate was down. The train was a ways down the tracks, and stopped dead for several minutes, and heading away from me. There weren't any other trains coming. The justification given was that they didn't want me to get hurt. Like they honestly didn't think I'd be concerned about my own life and wouldn't carefully evaluate the situation? They had TWO cops monitoring the tracks, day in and day out. This is just one more idiotic exercise by the government to have cops sitting around doing busywork rather than chasing after violent criminals. And guess who pays for it? Yup. All of us.

Which is one more reason I don't trust the careless proliferation of laws, however well intentioned they may sound. They will eventually be used to launch 'operation stopcowfuc.kers' or some other absurd taxpayer funded activity.
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 32
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I'm not easily offended but...
Posted: 6/2/2006 10:35:55 PM
>Which may give us a better clue as to why their all powerfull society collapsed so easily
>when confronted by a much less powerfull enemy -with a socialy conservative based
>cause.

Sparta and Athens were both millitaristic and colonial. Sparta was so conservative that they were eugenicists, however, and killed weak infants. But it's hard to compare the two forces. Athens had a powerful navy. Sparta had a powerful army

Of course, there's no evidence that pedaresty, disgusting as it is, was the downfall of Athens. Typhus, spread by fleas and ticks, seemed to have killed a third of them.
Infighting and power lust in general made the greeks vulnerable to destruction by outside forces (who were, themselves, less than socially conservative.)

So if you equate millitary power with sexual restraint what do you think of Phillip the II of macedonia and his son Alexander the Great being involved in homosexual and pedarestical relationships and marrying multiple times, sometimes simultaneously? And all the while the macedonian empire grew by leaps and bounds.

My take is that might doesn't make right or vice versa.
But that's only my opinion.

This is even truer in modern times where bravery in battle is secondary to technological prowess.
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 33
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I'm not easily offended but...
Posted: 6/2/2006 10:38:54 PM
>is being a pedophile considerd not only a crime but also some sort of mental illness?
>since when do the inmates get to run the asylum?

It's more of a fetish, crime or social stigma. Just because someone is immoral doesn't mean they're crazy. As mentioned previously, it wasn't long ago that marrying at 13-15 was considered common and socially acceptable. Of course, people (particularly women) needed less education to get by in society then.
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 35
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I'm not easily offended but...
Posted: 6/3/2006 1:51:39 PM

back inthose days, few people were educated, male or female


True. But this only reinforces the fact that age of consent is a cultural construct. You wouldn't say "in those days, people died younger and were less educated so murder and theft were okay." Personally, I'd say the difference was that back then, people got _married_ at 13. They didn't just start screwing around.

People died of infectious diseases more often, certainly. The infant and child mortality rate was much higher, dragging down the average lifespan. But the maximum lifespan was the same then as now and you had _plenty_ of people living past 80. To take the ages of the first four presidents of the United States as a sample;

George Washington - 67
John Adams - 91
Thomas Jefferson - 83
James madison - 85

Three out of four lived past 80.
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 39
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I'm not easily offended but...
Posted: 6/16/2006 6:10:38 PM

In 1998, a study published by the American
Psychological Association claimed that sex between
adults and children is not only less harmful than
believed but might even be positive for willing children.


Where's the study? You gave no source.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-IV
WHY was it removed? Not on a scientific basis whatsoever.

There is presently considerable debate whether some aspects of zoophilia are better understood as an abberation or as an orientation. The activity or desire itself is no longer classified as a pathology under DSM-IV (TR) (the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association) unless accompanied by distress or interference with normal functioning on the part of the person.

The "Illustrious" APA....has just given the AOK...to screwing Animals...???? Freaks!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoophilia

APA tried to pass off Pedophilia as "normal" in 2003!


Saying that someone has a mental disorder and saying that they're a criminal are two different things. Do you want pedophiles to be found "not guilty by reason of instanity"?

I think that they're rational and should be held legally responsible for their actions, myself.
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 40
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I'm not easily offended but...
Posted: 6/17/2006 12:14:04 PM

Saying that someone has a mental disorder and saying that they're a criminal are two different things. Do you want pedophiles to be found "not guilty by reason of instanity"?

I think that they're rational and should be held legally responsible for their actions, myself.


The above was mine. The formatting came out wrong.

You're wanting the APA to enforce a moral agenda. That's not their job. They're psychologists. Not clergy or legislators. Abnormal psychology is about people who cannot adapt and function effectively in a wide set of circumstances.
 wiserd
Joined: 5/11/2004
Msg: 42
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I'm not easily offended but...
Posted: 6/18/2006 4:09:21 PM

That sounds like one sickhouse to me. Please tell me some parent assassinated this freak.


IIRC, he died from infection related to his penile insertion techniques. (i.e. the man got off by sticking stuff up his pee-hole)
 woodrow9876
Joined: 12/29/2004
Msg: 43
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I'm not easily offended but...
Posted: 6/18/2006 10:18:47 PM
Um...well, this does seem a bit of a red herring post generally...

It's shocking, ridiculous and entirely deserving of contempt...these people in the Netherlands who are pro-paedophillia. Absolutely.

But to be upset that they formed a political party?

Well, hell, that's a right groups have in many democracies...like Netherlands, or Canada, or yes, the United States.

In fact, you can start a political party for issues that are illegal. In the U.S., 10 states have a US Marijuana Party...totally okay to do this...they just get next to no votes...as will this one. They WILL stir up debate, and make the issue more prevalent...and one hopes, have this debate lead to firmer controls and better protections for children.

But the fact remains, that you can start any party you want to in the USA or Canada...hell, there's a Nazi party in the US...and the Family Values party started because at 2am, Christmas 1994, god apparently woke their leader up and told him to start it up...

Democracy in action.

Oh, and we need to clear up some pretty blatent mis-information really quickly...

Someone suggested the APA published a study about how pedophillia might be good for kids in some cases...or some equally ridiculous statement. someone asked for a link to this APA study...and the link was provided. http://www.ipce.info

ipce is not the APA. It's a pedophillia advocacy group. Adding that link is a bit sneaky, I'd say, as the study itself has nothing to do with the APA (who in fact denounced the study. To be clear, it was not endorsed by the APA. It was a mistake, the study got through a peer review into a journal when it shouldn't have...the results widely critisized but to say this is an indication the APA is supportive or agrees with the findings...is simply not true.)

Now, in addition, there seems to be occasional hints that homosexuality is predictive of pedophillia...which is again, false. To be clear, child abuse by homosexuals is no more likely than by heterosexuals.

Let's just say this...Kinsey? Well, read for yourself if you'd like an overview of his life, and controversy...it's a good start at least, and better than the picture you get here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Kinsey

The real thing that he 'did' was have homosexuality removed from the books as a psychological illness. This, by the way, p!sses off the Christian right and tends to lead to attacks on his work and life.

Oh, and 'deviant' in terms of sexual practices simply means, speaking of the dictionary meaning of the word , as 'differing from the norm'. In other words, technically, saving your virginity for marriage is sexual deviancy too, these days, as it's not the norm.

And when we're dealing with quotes from many and varied sources, including advocacy groups for pedophillia, to back up a claim that makes it seem like the APA actually DID a study saying it was okay...source checking is important.

So for 'news' of APA trying to say pedophiles are normal..we are given a link.

To the APA site? They have one, and they're pretty up front about things...

No.

To a major news resource? After all, something like that...you'd bet your boots CNN and so on would be all over it...

No.

We are linked to

CNSNews.com

Their motto? The "RIGHT" news. "RIGHT" now. (capitals and quotes are mine).

Think maybe they might, have a bias...RIGHT? You think perhaps they'd be trusted for the RIGHT info?

Oh...wait...in small text...It says CNSNews.com is a division of the media research centre... "http://www.mediaresearch.org/"

Check 'em out...here are some other headlines they had...in their quest for the "right" news...

- WashPost Finds Md. Governor 'Centrist' For Pandering to Gay Left

- The Trashing of the Christ
NBC, ABC, CBS Promote Da Vinci Code but Trashed The Passion

- Memories of Katie’s Dramatic Liberal Bias

- Coulter’s Media Critics are Moral, Editorial Hypocrites

and so on...

Just what you want to have for an impartial 'source'...right?

More impartial sources...or at least...useless ones...some from a student at MTSU...That would be "Middle Tennessee State University" for those of you unfamilliar with this bastion of human psychology research and academe...

The quote I liked (putting aside this is an undergrad student's silly little home page...not exactly lexis-nexus)...was that since Feb 20, 1996...the site's had 1531 visitors...

Maybe you can be 1532...go visit Ben's site... http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/

Oh, and another thing...http://user.cyberlink.ch/~koenig for another insight on science...

Here's the intro to this guy's page...

A research project done by Peter-R. Koenig

A detailed historical field research on the psycho-sociology of a modern secret society called Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.). All about modern day occultism and money; so-called Templars and falsification of history; Gnostics in the kitchen + bedrooms and their "expanded" consciousness; Illuminati and conspiracy; NeuRosicrucians; religious liberty and sexmagick; their relation with Voodoo and Freemasonry; rituals, correspondences, books and articles.

Again, here we have skipped all that mumbo jumbo by the 'mainstream' and got to someone who knows his sh!t...I'm just hoping Peter can clear up that 'sexmagick' issue for us too...as it sounds like fun to me.
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