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Show ALL Forums  > Broken Hearts  > Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.      Home login  
Joined: 11/22/2006
Msg: 149
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.Page 7 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
Old man hes been sober 28 years and has been to many meetings all over as he travels alot. He said its the same everywhere..I know many alcoholics that feel the same way and yes the failure rate overall is 90-95% failure rate. They sought alternative recovery outside of the AA organization, and it was very successful. I am proud of you that you choose sobriety over the of luck to you.

PS yes there is alot of research and literature floating around that contradicts statistics but he found that the contradictions were that AA writes their own literature, and for whatever reason they are not accurate. I thought maybe they were trying to encourage the addict? The scientific stats have been done over the last 20 years, involving thousands of alcoholics and recovering alcoholics. They were done by recovered alcoholics. I will try and find the site for you. I am under the impression its to be anonymous too..the list I gave you was from a place that doesn't use AA as a recovery their sources of that list are anyones guess. It was just interesting. Alot of contradictions. I mean this post as a discussion not to offend. From your point of view, have you used other methods of recovery with AA? If so what did you do?
Joined: 11/22/2006
Msg: 150
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/16/2008 8:59:18 AM
Sandbug~ Did you have any alkies in your family? I always read if you grow up with an alcoholic parent you either become one or marry one. I don't think this is fully true as I heard it from an alkie and their thought process sometimes is very distorted. Was this your experience too? Its fun not to drink..I never have and never will...
 Mr Old Man Dude
Joined: 8/24/2007
Msg: 151
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/16/2008 10:19:51 AM
Interesting point made on the alcoholics in the family. I grew up in a houselhold where neither parents drank.. did not condone it at all, and it was not allowed in there home. They were both very active in there religion.. and i grew up going to church as well. As a matter of fact, my first drink did not come until i graduated high school! I had heard that other relatives who had drank at one point in there lives were not very successful at it, and growing up, was warned this. But there came a time to where i made a choice, and it turned out to be the wrong one. One point though... its my understanding that at one point in my now deceased fathers life.. he did drink some.. and had a few problems with it. I firmly believe he was non-alcoholic, probably what one would call a heavy drinker, and most of those are able to quit on there own.

I did try other methods of trying to stay sober before I walked into A.A. Tried going back to church......tried some outpatient counseling, and even saw a shrink for a while. Unfortunately, none of the above worked. The problem with a lot of different types of therapy is a lot of them are just book trained in college, and have no clue what its like to live it. Times are changing though.. and a lot of the counselors and therapist today have been addicts, alcoholics.. etc.

One reason that A.A. does have a low success rate today.. and ive heard statistics that vary as much as 20%..... a lot of the people who walk through the doors today are court ordered.. and have not hit there rock bottom yet. They attend only what is required by the courts, dont seek out a sponser, and dont start applying the steps in there lives. If you take a look at the early history of A.A., there was a much higher success rate, as they dealt in only rock bottom drunks. And.. they also "recruited" these members as well.... as they found that getting out of themselves and working with another alcoholic helped them stay sober.
Another thing you have today.... is to many "cross-addicted" people walking through the doors of A.A., with alcohol NOT being there drug of choice. Alcoholism is a very progressive disease.... and with some... they go down the scale faster than others.
But face it.... a heroin addict, crack addict.... they walk to the tune of a very different drum. I myself never did drugs.... but have talked to many that have, and are clean today. One of the things you dont have with addicts is usually the ability to function that well, and at a very early phase in there addiction. While a practicing Alcoholic, I held down a job at the same company for 17 years, and received promotions along the way as well. Due to relocating, I decided to leave the company on my own. But..I also realize that at about the time I left the company.. I was sliding down the scale faster and faster, and probably would not have been in there employ much longer at the rate things were going.

But today things are very different for me, and my life has changed. I do TRY to live the steps on a daily basis, reach out and help people when I can. I firmly believe that if I did not do these things.. I would not be sober today. I dont think A.A. is the blame in anything... but maybe the people who walk through the doors arent that ready yet. Just like a college.. just because you attend it doesnt mean you are going to pass. There is footwork to do.... and if you arent willing to do the work.. you arent going to pass . I know a lot of people who do say A.A. doesnt work... they blame the people, the program.. anyone and everything they can think of. But in turn, isnt that the typical PRACTICING ALCOHOLICS behavior to lay blame? They dont want to look at what they ARE OR ARE NOT DOING! That WAS me as well, as I blamed counselors, the church, and anything I could for my inability to quit! For me.. I have A.A. to thank.... and many wonderful people in the program as well. As if it werent for the program of Alcoholics Anonymous..... I believe I would be in 1 of 2 places today..... prison.. or 6 feet under. Thanx for letting me share.... Gary M.
Joined: 5/28/2007
Msg: 152
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/16/2008 10:31:21 AM
You did right by breaking it off with her, but for the wrong reason.

No one can stop binge drinking to prove their love. What you asked of her was impossible. If you don't want her, binges and all, then you don't want her. The
binges are part of the package.

People typically stop addictive behavior only when the consequences become unbearable, and even then it's a tremendous struggle for them that requires them
to seek outside help. Even when they get through the transition, which can be very
rough on everyone, the experience changes them in ways that cannot be predicted.
Joined: 11/22/2006
Msg: 153
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/16/2008 11:03:12 AM
Gary God Bless you for your honesty..but for your courage mostly. Thank you for sharing this personal journey with all in this public forum. It makes sense the stats dropped for the reasons you stated. The AA of long ago is not the same as today...times they are a changing! Your college analogy is a funny true! I am glad you are not 6ft under or in jail.
Joined: 10/23/2007
Msg: 154
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/16/2008 11:28:16 AM
"A alcoholic cant just drink socially. You cant help her. She has to realize she has a problem then get herself help.

I wouldnt have had any drinks around her. That for sure was no help."

VERY well put, Kicnbac. Don't you know there is no cure for alcoholism except complete abstinence? Alcoholics can't be taught to drink socially. If you really wanted to help her, pushing her in the direction of an AA meeting would have been the most logical step. Oh well, live and learn......
Joined: 1/21/2008
Msg: 155
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/16/2008 12:49:30 PM
In the summer of 1999 I met a man "on line"...I was new to the computer, and the 'on line' thing. I hadn't had a heartfelt close relationship in 15 years. I was a single mom with 3 almost adult children. I was really feeling empty and longing for the relationship I'd no time for, for so long....When I met this man, he being being Irish...we hit it off immediately in conversation and humor on line. We decided finally to meet, we did in Seattle...we (or mostly he) talked, walked and drank coffee for hours. I was immediately comfortable, and a bit 'smitten' with him. His smile, his body language and the light in his eyes communicated 'acceptance' and 'attraction' to me. I was about 20 lbs over weight at the time and very insecure in many ways. Trying not to make this too long...I'll skip many details...but, he moved into the new house I was buying...w/in weeks it was clear he was an alcoholic....I adored him...for the next 8 years, there were many "move in's...move out's" to his house, mine to his....many many many bouts of his bing drinking that at first was maybe every 6 months or the end every couple weeks...the binges became increasingly progressive and life threatnening....trips to the ER room, vomiting blood, convulsions etc....I stood by his side, believing in him and loving him...and obviously enabling him...he had been married for twenty years prior and was an active alcoholic for the most part all adult life...but, I believed could help him where no other human had been able too???? Giving to heartbreak and sadness over and over and over.......towards the last two years of our 'love'....I had lost my father, developed PTSD due to a horrible thing happen at my work, and had a shoulder injury causing extreme pain....I also, due to my depression after my Dad's death...that lingered partly because I was now convinced I'd loose my 'best friend' too, because he was trying so hard to kill himself with alcohol.....I began to go to 'love' didn't know it...but, I went believing my own personal problems and depression was hurting him...I refrained from sharing my sadness with him as to not add to his drinking problem....WOW, how noble of me eh?? So Al-Anon began opening my eyes to my 'enabling' running to his aide 'nursing' him through withdrawal (as in bathing him, making him eat, making him get out of bed and shave, consoling him, checking his vomit for blood, his pee for blood, watching for signs of kidney failure, cleaning the bottles upon bottles of vodka and beer cans away.....I wasn't NOT doing him any favors...I WAS trying to be his HERO, and prove my never dieing loyalty, devotion and strong conviction in our very very 'special' love..........I began to withdraw when he would drink....I began not taking his call if on my recorder I could detect he was drinking.....all the while laying in bed losing sleep, crying...begging God to help him because I couldn't and asking God, Please Please don't let him die, I need him in my life!!!!!! Last April, he had been sober 2 months and began taking Prozac...we rode on the bus to work that a.m. , he walked me to my job, handed me a lunch he had made for me...kissed me, said "I love you huney".....we rode home together that even, I laid on his shoulder as I often did...he acted irritated as he could sometimes.....a lady on the bus commented as we got off as to what a cute couple we were...(we heard that often).........that was the last time I saw him, he stopped taking my calls, answer my knocks on his door, answering my emails...I was convinced he was going on the worst binge ever.....he wasn't at the bus stop. I was going in for shoulder surgery at the end of that month of last April....just prior, he did answer finally the phone....his voice and demeanor towards me was a total stranger....he hung up...and I could not reach him again....May 3, still very much in recovery of surgery and in so much pain...I could not handle his sudden and completely out of character 'disappearance'...and I was still convinced something was terribly terribly wrong...I was sick with worry....on the way back from the doctors I drove through the bus stop area...thinking perhaps I'd find him there...I did, he was stepping off the bus with a huge grin on his face and stepping towards a parked car with a woman inside waiting...I honked he looked up and saw me...and I saw a look on his face in 8 years I had never seen before...he spoke low and angrily when he asked "were you parked here waiting for me?"...I said, "no hun, I drove thru on the way back from doctors...I've been so worried about you, I love you and miss you, what is there someone else?" that he slowing raised his left hand as to not bring attention to it and slipped hand into his pocket as he did, I noticed a ring on his finger...he then replied "well, yes...and I had planned to explain what is going on, but can't yet for legal reasons"............I had no idea what he meant then, and don't even now......I was in shock, couldn't talk...just nodded my head and slowly drove away....I read in the paper 2 days later he had married.
As it all turns out, he had actually moved from his apartment the day I went in for surgery....the last bus ride we shared...she was already living with him.......she was his best friends (a woman) partner of 10 years....and she did pretty much the same to her partner...convincing her to go into rehab...for abusing pain meds that she was feeding her...and then with her partner out of the house...he and she moved her as well..
I can't tell you all of the emotions that have come and gone this past year....I can't tell you the depth of betrayal and sadness and enormous loss I have felt.............I learned so much about him after the fact.....I wasn't his best friend or even close obviously....though he told me everyday as he walked me to work..."I sure love you huney"...ect He had a plan in progress for a long time.....together they planned out very well....I was even told they read together my early e-mails of hurt and confusion, and laughed at them.....He was so broke and couldn't get ahead due to missing so much work...he couldn't pay his bills...and I had long since stopped giving him money.....he couldn't pay his rent, get car insurance..or even a decent car...and made when he worked...very good money...collectors we after him...huge hospital bills, dentists bills etc.......So I guess, at some point her money and whatever else she had to offer became a need I knew nothing about........soon after he married his rich uncle died and he got hi inheritance..........SO, at two months sober, new to he went...without so much as a respectful 'goodbye' for me......what had I done to deserve this???? I believed...I believed!!! In my abilities to help, in his love for me, in our 'specialness', in his words, in his promises....I believed. 8 years I believed...and at the end I was simply one day w/out even a considerate respected 'so long'...wiped off his shoe. It has been a year now, I've received a couple of emails...but, it is like reading a letter from a stranger.........I don't have a clue who he is now...and perhaps never did...other than the fact, his alcoholism deceived me and somehow worked for him???? He claims he has been sober for a year now......he claims many I said....I remain completely baffled...and cannot get passed the word "why" to come to any conclusion other than..."what a fool I was"...............
Sorry this was so long......but, perhaps it will help someone some how.
Joined: 11/22/2006
Msg: 156
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/16/2008 1:13:45 PM
Your post makes me weep for you, triumph for you that you finally figured out what you needed to..and you may have also been spared some details that might have cut you deeper. I am so sorry you went through this and gave up so much time to be loyal, you meant well, then your transformation of yourself to realize how we all have enabled our drinkers..its been a tough journey for you and everyone that goes through it. Today is a new day..put this behind you and rise above made it out alive. You lived to share your story today with someone that will be leaning on every word, so as to find answers and to help themselves. Big are not alone. Thank you for bareing your soul with us...
Joined: 1/21/2008
Msg: 157
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/16/2008 2:14:21 PM
jeanieweeman and others:
Sorry for so many type o's in previous post. I was on a 'roll'..........and you are I have said....the emotional roller coaster going on a year now...of betrayal, loss, anger, self pity, etc...has just been unbelievable. And I still hurt FOR him, I still at times fall back to believing...he just wasn't in his 'right mind' when he did what he did....and he is most likely suffering enormous guilt....and I have to constantly remind myself any guilt he may be 'suffering' from could not come close, or compare to all of the pain, loss and so much damage to a once loving, believing heart. He left me with. 8 years of all the many painful 'paths' one walks with when they choose to travel them with an alcoholic cannot compare to this now empty empty sorrowful heart he left me with as some sort of consolation 'gift' of my years of loving "service' and believing in him. Because it is so much part of my 'nature'...I will always find ways to blame myself.....and for awhile I even blamed it is there I learned...that I wasn't showing my love for him in my enabling actions.....and to stop running to his aid...could be the greatest display of love I could give him......(as it turns out, she WAS running to his aid, telling him I was just awful, had no feelings...AND giving him money...AND she was a recovery alcoholic and druggy as well, SHE very well knew "The Rules in Enabling").....So, "tough love".....doesn't always leave you the 'hero' eh??? (smile). I also hurt so very much for his previous work partner, (his 'new' wife's ex) becuse she has shared with me that she felt he was her best friend...she has told me that she truly loved him in that manner (platonic).....she and her partner of 10 years owned a home together...and her partner used to cut my 'love's' hair (she was a beautician).......he drove a long long way in a rattle trap unreliable car w/out insurance to get those hair cuts at their house, but when I'd asked him come be with me at my house 10 miles away..he'd say "oh hun, I shouldn't be driving this car, especially without insurance" I told her.....that should have been a clue for us both....But because we both were full of the 'trust' thing, and believed we knew the content of character our 'mates' held...due to the many 'acts' of such....we couldn't see. BUT, as I conveyed to her......those two...worked very hard to keep us confused and baffled and completely in the dark...until they could be free of us. She shared with me some very ugly and untrue things he would share with them about me on his visits to their house........and them only meeting me twice....believed it all. Looking back it was all part of the 'work in progress'...............Cunning, baffling, manipulation and deception....all part of the 'addictions character'........I am not sure why at my age with such hope of finding a my true and last love for life...after years of going it alone.....I am not sure all had to turn out this it has clearly once and for all proven to my huge giving go back as I once was before I met this man.....believing once again, I am better off alone; as my heart love to big, gives too much, believes to readily, and 'serves' to willingly...and will always be broken in the end.....this last 'break' is the last for sure...and it even still is beyond 'repair'.......................So, for anyone walking into a new relationship...if you see signs early on of this sort of thing...."Addiction" to ANYTHING....don't hang around long enough to fall in love.....because they ARE lovable and easy to love............YOU and your LOVE is NOT what will make them whole!! You cannot fix what is broken inside them!!! What is broken inside them is between them and GOD, and GOD cannot do his work, if you are always in his way!!!! Go to AL-Anon, and listen to the stories, you will learn my story is just one of many!!
His now 'wife'.....too, has lots yet left to see, understand and become aware of....she does not have a clue who he really is......the painful paths I have walked are now mostly in my past....she has all those paths in her future left to walk with him....and because of her willing, SOBER participation in the cruel, ugly and unkind, inhumane deception and all of the pain and damage it has caused to the undeserving......I wish her a very very slow walk!!!! And...believe it or heart loves him even still~
 joeys gurl
Joined: 12/5/2007
Msg: 158
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/16/2008 2:22:14 PM
HOMEISWHERETHEHEARTIS, I personally, needed to hear this!! (2 posts up mostly, and then this post of yours)

thank you sooooooooooooo much
Joined: 1/21/2008
Msg: 159
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/16/2008 2:43:53 PM
joeys gurl: you are welcome.....perhaps 'helping' someone by sharing...will help give some sort of 'purpose' to this last years journey from the dark into the light again.....
and Hey!! I grew up in Petaluma......and San Francisco was my 'play ground' time you are out walking by the bay...throw a stone in for me...and wish for me beautiful miracles yet to come into my life!! God Bless you and everyone on either side of addiction....I pray for your recovery. Happy "Thank" Paddy's Day!!!
Joined: 8/24/2005
Msg: 160
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/17/2008 1:07:20 AM
i understand you completely my friend. my relationship failed as well because of the same issues. i met him and he drank every night... i was fresh out of a long relationship so it didnt really bother me. i was just happy for the company of someone. but then i fell in love... then i got pregnant and my life was no more about him nor i but more about our little one on the way... while i was pregnant he got drunk and laid his hands on me... he went to jail for it and stupid me took him back thinking he would change like he cried to me he would... well my daughter was born a long time ago and nothing had changed... his addiction was stronger then his love for me... i pulled out of our relationship knowing it was best for me and best for my daughter. sometimes you have to leave those you love behind in order to live happily... sounds harsh but true... and no your wrong.. they shouldnt stop drinking because they love you... they should stop drinking for thierselfs.. thats the only way they will truely stop... its hard i guess with addiction. but you have to ask your self.. am i getting my hopes up for change when i already know the out come in the end? it was good you let her go.... im sure you loved her like i loved my husband... but we know we can do better and it was time for us to move on... some people will never be strong then thier addictions. and sometimes you just give up on waiting for them to come around.
Joined: 11/22/2006
Msg: 161
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/20/2008 3:16:37 PM
Did anyone see celebrity rehab with Dr Drew? I saw my ex addict in every person was insightful. Catch it if you can..I think its on sunday nights on the same Mtv channel?? I could be wrong..but it was acknowledging to the families of addicts for sure..hang in there aren't missing anything without them...except the caos. The truly recovering...get other help outside of AA and work the AA program..some are dry alkies but still live in denial about their recovery status...They go through the motions of not drinking but don't tap into why they drank and change their lifestyles after rehab..they lash out at others and still try to don't rent space in your mind for free with them..get yourself where you need to be.Also show compassion for those who really struggle and try no matter what is thrown in their path. Not all alkies are the same..but they all have a lifetime full of struggle.
Joined: 6/24/2007
Msg: 162
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/20/2008 4:40:44 PM
What are your thoughts on this one?

I am originally from Russia but did part of my school in Finland. I always liked Finns and made a freind from Finland here in the US. Quite a while ago she applied for her Green Card and was suppose to get it in approximately 6 months. She couldn't leave the country while her case was pending. IN about 9 months or so her twin sister was marrying in Finland and she couldn't attend her wedding.

That was the day when she broke dawn (and I believe her attorney couldn't push the process) and started to drink pretty much every day and heavily.

Her BF was by her side and bagging her to quit. She didn't listen, she wanted to become an American and be able to fly to Rovaniemi and see her family. She missed them badly. She was trying to drink her pain away and no one could stop her. SHE WAS DOING IT VERY HEAVILY.

Guess what?????? Her Green Card showed up in like 2,3 years. Drinking immediately went beyond her interest. She traveled to Finland shortly. Got engaged in a couple of months to that guy. Got married to him. Everyone is happy. She may have a glass of wine socially but no any interest in any heavy drinking what-so-ever. She is the same person as she was before and I never would say looking at her that she ever had that issue.
 Mr Old Man Dude
Joined: 8/24/2007
Msg: 163
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/21/2008 8:53:39 PM
This is what they would call the hard or heavy drinker. While some of the similarities are there that the alcoholic has... they are able to stop or moderate on there own. Health reasons, change in lifestyle or life situation... etc. I think a lot of the people on here who have posted know that the real alcoholic... they dont stop for anything. Family, job, legal reasons.... nothing works until they hit there rock bottom, surrender to alcohol, and do it for themselves. Ive known over the years a few people who have stopped just as you mentioned. Theres a chapter in Alcoholics Anonymous "Big Book" titled "More About Alcoholism" thats very informative about the different types of "drinkers".
Joined: 12/22/2009
Msg: 164
view profile
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 10/5/2010 1:49:45 PM
Interesting subject line....The rise and fall of a relationship. Alcoholism. I'm of the mindset that there can be no "relationship" when an alcoholic is drinking. The only "relationship" that exists is the one between the alcoholic and alcohol. Everything else is secondary. Who wants to be second behind alcohol? Not me..
Joined: 6/3/2008
Msg: 165
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/30/2011 6:37:19 AM
until a person is ready to face their INNER DEMONS (or go on med's=not the real solution)no amount of will power or logic will stop that person from drinking. The real problem here is u r not looking at your inner demons + that is y u r attracted to such a dysfunctional relationship. Been there done that too many times!
Joined: 10/25/2007
Msg: 166
view profile
Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.
Posted: 3/30/2011 8:28:51 AM
You are the only person you can change or control. I had to learn that the hard way by falling and hitting rock hard bottoms for drunks. I denied them a bottom and rescued them from consequences by volunteering to pick up their tab. It made me sick and them sicker. Codependency is as fatal and progressive as Alcoholism. There are no victims, only volunteers. There comes a point where doing the same thing yields the same result. Where you know what has happened, what is happening, and what will happen again if you continue to participate.

They are very good at telling you what you want to hear. Take careful note so you know exactly how and where you can be manipulated. They can teach you a lot about yourself. Few addicts are malevolent but they are astute manipulators. Addicts/alcoholics are extremely good at getting others to do what they want. They would not be able to stay drunk or high otherwise. If you don't take stock of yourself, plus and minus, others will. So take it for what it is worth. It is a good way to get to know things about yourself only others can see.
Show ALL Forums  > Broken Hearts  > Alcoholism, the rise and fall of a relationship.