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 Bernadette18
Joined: 3/20/2006
Msg: 87
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's WitnessPage 2 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
Exactly WAS! We including yourself are all imperfect. We all inherited sin! I haven't bashed any Jehovah Witnesses,but certainly you have through out this forum. May God Bless you always!
 lindy_3333
Joined: 3/6/2006
Msg: 88
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History
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 11/9/2006 9:20:15 PM
Well, my advice is run like hell.. was one for over 40 years.. but then I would say run like hell from any religion lol..... I researched them all.. finally lol.. they are all false!!

Want to know all about JW's? Here is a site that will tell you what you want to know.. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/default.ashx

LOTS of information here.. even from ones who knew JW's and were one... is WRONG...

EX: being disfellowshipped for your kids associating with "worldly kids" BUNK.. Something else she did caused that....

I "drifted" away.. but knew that organization inside out.. always knew something was wrong.. but until I left.. didnt know the half of it..


Best wishes.. and happy fishing everyone here!

Linda
 vnillamousse
Joined: 10/4/2004
Msg: 90
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 11/9/2006 10:13:45 PM
Linda

"always knew something was wrong.. but until I left.. didnt know the half of it.."

Thank you!

I knew somebody here would "get it"...

Vnilla
 madskillz99
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 91
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History
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 11/9/2006 10:31:33 PM
No disrespect, but any religion that has predicted the end of the world like 170 times and each time was wrong is not worth its salt.
 WakeDan
Joined: 8/16/2006
Msg: 94
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 11/10/2006 1:49:34 AM
Just because MJ claimed to be a Witness sure as hell doesn't make him one.

I remember a reporter or someone asking him about a piece of jewelry he carried around. He said something about symbolism and credited the Witnesses.

Unfortunately for him, Witnesses do not believe in attaching symoblism to ANY object. You will never see a statue of Jesus or prayer beads or a cross or anything of that sort in a true Witness home.

As soon as he spouted that line of bull I knew there was no JW congregation in the world where he was a regular.

I could say I'm an Astronaut but that doesn't make me one.
 LoyalLadyD
Joined: 8/24/2006
Msg: 101
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 11/18/2006 5:37:59 PM
BeachBunnie...................Get involved with one and you will change your tune real fast
 judyarlinepuckett
Joined: 11/24/2006
Msg: 114
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Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 6/3/2007 7:47:47 PM
If you are dating someone with the idea they will conform.
or change in anyway,
you sit your self up for heartache.
 1LovingSpirit
Joined: 4/25/2007
Msg: 118
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 9/2/2007 12:14:24 AM
Hello Pandora33,

Jehovah's Witnesses are a fundamentalist Christian religion whose adherents take most of the Bible literally. They are well versed in the Bible, even producing a Bible that reflects their use of Jehovah as God's name. Most are very involved in their faith, in fact, it would be truthful to say that their faith is their life. They attend five meetings a week, three conventions a year, and are requested that they go door to door to maintain an active "theocratic" status in the congregation that they attend. They are devout people that truly believe they are serving God according to their "Truth." Since, I personally support any path that helps someone connect to Source, i.e., the Higher Power, many times referred to God I will not pay disrespect to them. My personal belief system accepts gems from all faiths and yet I do not belong to a single one. I make my choices from my heart. So from my heart, I would strongly ask you to consider to keep this gentleman as a platonic friend. It has already been stated that JWs only marry JWs, and that is true. There are some that may marry non-believers, however, they are considered "weak" and "not good association." It is like walking around with a black mark. If you truly care for this person, you will allow him the space and freedom to make his own choice. If his family are practicing Jehovah's Witnesses he is already faced with immense pressure to not date outside of his faith. They have already been embarrassed that his way of life has resulted in him being put on "probation." He is walking a very thin line. If the elders find out that he is dating a non-JW, it could put him in the position of being "disfellowshipped" or excommunicated. He will be disowned by his family. His spiritual path is his own to choose, just as you have had the freedom to choose to be agnostic. Let him make the choice without interference from you. Also, he may be tempted into premarital sex with you, which the JWs consider to be a grave sin. He WILL be disfellowshipped for that. I know that if you care about him you will not want to cause him additional pain.

As far as the "property issue" - About twelve to fifteen years ago, the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society came up with legal contracts that people can sign if they wish to transfer their property to the JWs upon a member's death. The JWs operate by contributions or donations. Allowing people to bequeath their estates has helped their bottom line considerably.

I hope this helps you make the choice that will ultimately be for the highest good for you and for your JW friend. Releasing him would be the highest road.

For you: Decide what you want from a relationship. Get clear on what you want in a partner and know that you have the ability to attract someone that can understand your belief system and walk hand in hand with you as your create the life you desire.
 afashionlady
Joined: 4/19/2008
Msg: 125
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 5:31:10 PM
Pandora

I've dated a Jehovah's Witness before. I have nothing bad to say about their faith. I personally think that they're misunderstood by many people and that's unfortunate. In a society where we're supposed to value differences, you say "Jehovah's Witness" and it's like a license to kill. When we started dating, I had friends and family say the most incredibly ignorant things about him to me in hopes of breaking us up.

What I did was research his faith as well as ask him questions about it. It was confusing at first--the differences are great and asking questions is key-but I kept at it. I also read some of the texts he gave me as well. It was an eye-opening experience. Yes, there were things that I didn't agree with and we'd discuss them when I asked about it.

What did break us up was his refusal to be open to my faith. He had no problem with me being open to his, but he flat out refused to even think of mine. That hurt a lot. He also wanted to, or so it seemed, date me secretly. Since I wasn't of his faith, he knew that if it were found out he was dating someone who wasn't a believer AND having sex with me--COMPLETELY against their teachings--he would be disfellowshipped. I felt that was hypocritical and selfish of him. He also said some very hurtful things about my faith that caused me to question him in general (hurtful as in he would have rather died than walk inside of my church...). In the end, he apologized and I accepted because we're all human. But I thought it best that we go our separate ways.

Would I do it again? Probably not. I understand and respect others' faith enough that if I'm not willing to become a complete part of what he believes in, then I need not be a small part at all.
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 126
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Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 6:02:13 PM
Bottom line, The JW's are taught that this is the only way to heaven - - - if you are not with them you are doomed to hell.

They believe that the leaders are in contact with God and Jesus, and God and Jesus is guiding them by providing tidbits of information over time.

This religion was started in about 1890 by a salesman looking for a why to make big money. He purchased a book publishing company and then took aspects from other religions - - Not main stream ones. - - - got the members to buy his publications - - and sell or give them away. - - - note even today the members have to purchase the publications they give away. What other church requires its members to do this.

He even wrote and published a series of books called Studies in Structure - - 7 volumes.
Their concept is we are too dumb to understand what the bible says as it is in code.
And that God by use of Spirits is giving guidance and direction in the form of tidbits for us to come to understand what the bible says - - - - as we mortals can not understand what we read.

Volume 7 is hidden from members as it is too far out - - wrote by the founder after he did. that is right - - - and also has the founder saying that he is the 7the angel mentioned in the bible. - - - -

Basically it is a cult, you are brain washed - - - this is the only way -- if you question or ask too many questions or read aspects you should not read - - (parts of the bible that do not agree with them ) or listen to others - - - - they will kick you out saying a bunch of lies about you - - drugs. hooker etc. - - even your own family can not talk to you - - the members are afraid of this - - - lost of salvation and family contact - - even with your own kids. - - - - You are taught that JW's are on the only decent people in the world - - not to trust any other. - -

and worst the more that you question or get in an argument with them you are proving to them that they are in the last days - - - as the bible says that the world will be against the true believers - - - - - - So it is a non-win-able battle. - - - -

Needless to say, I know more about their religion than they do, for if they knew what I know about them they would not be members. - - - -

They like to brag that we are a large group - - millions and we can not all be wrong - - ah - -
They like to brag that they have the answers but in reality they do not - - they say just wait.

But reality is sure a lot join each year - - but also a lot drop out - - - and they do this by trying to fade away - - - hard - - - as the Elders watch over the flock closely and have to provide production type of reports to the higher ups. - - - hours going door to door etc. Membership - - - - easiest way to get out is to move to a new area - - - in an other churches area and simply not start up - - - - That way you do not get the banning that can happen if you simply try to drop out - - - because of are tired of the JW's or have started to question them.

Also the JW's teach or preach that Jesus is with them in secret chambers in New York.

To me - - - why would a person that can travel the universe simple decide to sit hidden away in a secret chamber - - - un-seen by even the members - - - - - why?

The bible says, When Jesus returns it will be like the lightening flashing from the east to the west. - - - I take that to mean - - - Jesus will be seen and known that he is back - - - The JW's try to modify this to mean - - To the true believers - - the faithful - he will be seen - - to others - - he will not be seen - - - - -

and say that this interpretation - - is what God has given to the leaders - - and who are you to argue with the leaders - - - -

if you can follow this and take what they say - - you have passed the dumb test - - -
as they point out to you in verses before this that Jesus is giving a warning - - - There will be stories of my being in Secret Caves or Chambers - - - do not fear for when I return - - (the above statement) - - to me this means - - you will know when Jesus comes back - - he will be known and seen - - - - and no religion is or should be able to say that he is simply sitting in a secret place - - - for months or years of time - - - - Why would Jesus do that? WHY?

and after passing the dumb test - - they will take you as a member - - if you can not follow their logic in this - - - you are not dumb enough (or qualified as they like to say)

My comment - - is run, do your research - - - most churches have material to help you with this. I did my research - - found sources, purchased books read them - -understood them - - - (before the days of the internet)

JW's are a very controlling cult - - -

Run

Jim P.
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 127
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Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 6:30:16 PM
I have talked to a paster about the JW's concept of the taking of blood. - - -

This paster was a teacher of accent Greece etc. - - -

The not taking of blood refers to the drinking of blood from the animals. Note no - way of persevering food - - so they would take their time killing a goat - - - slice off a chunk, cook it, drink the blood that runs out - - - next meal, cut some more off - - - The goat would take a couple of days to die. It was this blood letting that the bible talks about - - - and the problems of drinking blood of animals - - - (note they would not be eating their most healthy animals that can still breed, but the more weak and lame. )

not what they are trying to make of it today.

and by the way - - I spend more than 5 minutes learning about the JW's - - - what they say on the surface looks good - -

Somethings that they do not like to remember is - - Do not celebrate Valentines, or your anniversary as this puts you before God. - - - This caused problems in their marriages so they had to change this rule - - - and want to hide the fact that they ever said this.

I have seen JW writings from the 50's and 60's where they say - - do not spend time playing chess or in sports as this detracts from your work. Do not get married as this detracts from your work, If you have to get married to not have kids as they detract from the work - - - - yes they said all of this - - - -

and you have say - - take time to hear what they have to say - - - I have - - I have talked and asked questions to elders - - - listened as he tried to explain away verse after verse and things written in their own publications. - - - - Clearly what he said did not match with what was written - - - it was as bad as saying the sky is yellow - - not blue - - and expecting you to believe if you want your salvation - - and only we can provide that - - - Finally I had him read paragraph in one of the JW publications that referred to some old testament verses - - in these verses, people are asking people that are saying things in God's name but are not with God. - - - - Scammers etc. - - - GOD says, "Do not worry about those, that say words that are not from me or commanded by me, for I will deal with them in my time and place in my own way" Ouch - - that I do not want to have to deal with - - - - I had the elder read this to me and continued on. - - He suddenly realized what he was doing and what I had done to him - - - And exploded - - - You see he know what he was doing in the name of the JW's and it was not the word of GOD for each bible verse that we discussed he tried to say it say something different that what it clearly said.
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 128
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Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 6:42:13 PM
I have meet people that simply found some aspect of their beliefs that they went to elders and asked them about it. - - - questions about this or that in the bible that is not covered by the JW lesions or readings - - - -

She was DF's, so fast - - - A special meeting was called. - - - The Elder was up there saying she was a hooker, drug dealer and the list went on and on, She lost all connection with her family, - - kids and grand kids, friends - - - Friends would see her walking down the street and cross to the other side - - - - all for asking some questions - - -

All to keep others from finding out what she read in the bible, and what her questions were.

The questions were never answered - - - - - - - This is all that is needed to be DF'ed

Question your faith - - ask a few questions - - - - and others are not allowed to speak to you to find out what really happened. - - - - for you are now with the devil and have no means to be able to say - - hey, what happened - - you are out - - - - the next day. I have talked with those that this happened to - - - -

note DF'ing was not done - - - till one of the top top leaders took a wife, at that time it was stated do not marry and get a higher position. One of the followers - - loyal 40 year follower back at head quarters - - that did not marry and put his whole life for the JW's - - total commitment - - when - - what? - - why this change? and questioned it - - He was DF's the first that was - - - - this started this policy. - - - - is this true belief. - - - - is this what GOD wants or is it twisting his words for what a human wants - - - hum

Jim P.
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 129
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Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 6:53:09 PM
Yips

More hog wash - - - -

I never allowed my kids to behave as you are saying all others that are not JW's do - - -
I have seen this blindness to many times in religion - - just not JW's. I have seen this blindness in many aspects of life - - - -

We are better - - - because - - - So there for I must be a sinner as I do not do as you do - yet you do not know me - - -

What I do not like is a religion to teach us to not think for ourselves - - - to simply be sheep and follow the teachings of man, That is right - - GOD is not talking to the JW's leaders, as the JW's like to have the flock believe - - - this is a new tidbit from GOD, some more en-lighting - - - - that has been hidden as the bible was not written so that any mortal man can understand it, we must have the elders - - on the main board - - translate the bible for us - - as we are not intelligent enough to understand what the guiding principles of the bible are. Who are the leaders - - - are they truly men of GOD? or effected by the devil - - - - -

In the bible, Jesus says time and time again - - - come to me - - directly to me - - - you do not need anyone between you and me - - - - yet the JW's have this ruling board - - that they put between you and Jesus.

Now if the devil wants a lot of souls, - - - - as you believe - - - all he has to do is tempted or divert the ruling board and he gets how many millions - - - correct - - - so has the ruling board been diverted or tempted. They are making one big mistake from the bible,

Jesus says - - come directly to me - you need no other person between us - - you can come directly to me and have a personal relationship with me - - - - in effect saying - - there should be no all mighty ruling board between you and Jesus.

enough said.

Jim P.
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 130
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Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 7:01:10 PM
The JW's did produce their own bible - - true - - -

they tried to hire experts to say it was a good version - - - all refused

One columnist said bad things about the JW bible and was sued by the JW's

In the making of the bible, the JW's refused to say how were their experts that translated the bible. as no experts were really involved. - - -

The JW leader at that time, was on the stand defending the JW bible, and was saying that
it was with GOD's direction and guidance - and that he could translate and worked on it and verified what was in the bible.

He was then asked to translate a verse from accent Hebrew - - - he could not - he had no clue to what it said or was - - -

this was after he said he knew accent Greece and Hebrew - - - - -

The verse he was asked to translate was - - - " in the beginning - - -
The very first verse in the bible - - - he could not even do that - - - -

Needless to say - - the JW's version of the bible was found to be a very bad translation, one of the worst ever done - - -

The JW's simply did a compilation of other translations - - with modifications to back what they wanted the bible to say. - - it is that bad. No skilled people were involved, no knowledgeable people in this field were involved. - - -

Of course the JW printing press sold lots of these and made lots of money doing this - - -
each member must have a JW version - - - correct. - - --

Jim P.
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 131
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Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 7:19:16 PM
Sorry "apostate." does not mean what you said.

I was told by elders in JW that it means - - - Their own material put together in a way that makes the JW's look bad. - - - -

This includes many things that they do not want current members to know

It has been a while - - but I think it was Oct 8th 1968 publication of the watchtower that said - - we now have all of the facts, all of the information (on the cover) to know when the End is .

This caused a large increase in membership - - - and more publications say what to do to prepare for the end - - in some of the follow on Watchtowers - - - do not get married - - devote your life to God's work. The Watchtowers in others said, sell your house and assets and donate them to JW to help in our work. - - - -

In the 6 months before the end of times, the Watchtower changed their tone - - started implying that maybe we do not have all of the facts - - - -

and those that screamed about what happen - - - the lost of house, home, life - - were told too bad, we warned you in the last few months and if you did not take this to heart is is your problem.

For several years, they said - - - the end is coming on this date - - - we know for sure - - time to prepare for the best position - - - and them just before go - - - oops

Note in the bible - - Jesus says over and over again - - do not ask me, I have not been let in on the time, you will hear stories of famine, earthquakes etc etc - - but I do not know of the time, do not ask me for I do not know - - - - so how can the JW's know, Many so called religions have stated that they know - - - based upon this or that information - - - twisting bible facts and dates to think that they know - - - JW's simply did this same thing - - -

And JW's are in contact with Jesus as he is in secret chambers in Bethel with them - - and has been for years - - - - - - - Sorry I simply do not buy this

Jim P.
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 132
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Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/19/2008 7:24:46 PM
Really funny, they respect and celebrate his death but not his birth

Something to do with they think it was really in Oct that he was born.

now the calender was all screwed up back then, Did not know about the need for leap year
So they would add or drop a day to try to keep the seasons the same - - - The problem is that
we do not have records to say when a day was added or dropped - - - So no one really knows.

To me the devil would worship, the death, while not the birth. - - - just a man's comment.

Hum

Yet, I have seen old watchtowers from the early 1900's that comment about their founder sending nice Christmas cards to thousands of people. - - - hum - - now it not allowed - - - why? God's enlightenment? as they like to call it. - - - or what - - - has the devil taken over the ruling board. We all know how total power can be corrupted - - - - and the ruling board has total power - - - -

Jim P.
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 133
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Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 1:34:49 AM
I did the research, I checked out what you have not checked out - - my second wife was in it and I found it wanting and started doing research - - - -

If you checked this out for yourself - - - you would be shocked at what they are doing and and have done - - - -

as in all there is good, and good concepts.

For some this is what they need - - - but they should know what it really is and is about.

I have read the Studies in Scriptures, I had a copy of the 7th volume that has been destroyed as much as possible as says a lot that they do not want - - - it is really strange - - off the deep end. - - - the founder is the 7th angel and he though of them self this way while shortly afterward are trying to say that he never did that - - -

The statements about the JW bible are correct - - -

Paster Russell, I think was his name - - tried to sue a reporters or something for slander over his studies in Scriptures. Pastor Russell, too offense and sued the reporter, Saying that he translated the original scriptures from accent text. - - - Russell was asked to show what were a few of the characters in the Greek alphabet - - - he failed totally - - Not even the first one - - Alpha or the last one Omega. - - - while trying to say that he translated from accent Greece. - - - - - - it was that bad. - - - later Pastor Russell said that spirits came to him in his dreams and guided him.

all that I have stated is true - - - - I have seen the original watchtowers that I referenced. I have read their books. I have looked at what they have said. - - -

I am intelligent enough of a person to realize that I do not need some higher up body of people on this earth to try to translate the bible for me - - - To be an interface between me and Jesus, - - - while in the bible is says over and over - - - Jesus is saying "come directly to me" " you do not need anyone to show you the way" and yet here is the ruling body of JW saying you must have us between you and GOD/Jesus as you are not intelligent enough to understand what the bible says - - - that it was written in code thousands of years ago for us to help decode today - - - - - ah does this reall make sense - - - To me it does not - - - - -

In talking to a pastor that is also a professor of accent Greece and Hebrew, teaches this stuff. - - - - we discussed that words have many meanings and the words - - the meanings of the words change and we have to reflect upon the times and situation. - - - and in this it is easy to take the words out of context - - just like the JW's do with the taking of blood, Totally out of context - - - -

Did you ever watch the TV show, Spin City. How they can put a spin on anything - - - a lot of that is happening in the JW's - - - - when the end did not come in the early 70's as predicted in '68 saying we now have all of the information that we need. - - - - We know, we are positive - - we are sure - - we have been enlightened - - - Jesus and God have informed us - - - how they spun this away - - - and the followers for the most part simply followed along - - - OK - - - and did not stop and go - - hey - what just happened. - - -

I am intelligent enough to read the bible and understand it - - I am able to form my own relationship with GOD and Jesus that does not depend upon any mortal humans that we have to trust have our interest first - - not theirs - - - - we all know power corrupts, We have seen many so called Ministers - - lead away from the path - - - how can we be sure about the ruling body of the JW. There is no check and balance in place. - - - yet they keep claiming that we can not read the bible and understand it - - yet the founder could not even name a couple of characters in the Accent Greek alphabet and yet claims that he translated it and decoded the mystery in the bible - - while not even knowing what the alphabet is, And can we trust the JW version of the bible when all experts say it is not even a good translation and when it is found out - - that none of the people that worked on it had any expert experience, and could not read or translate any accent Greek or Hebrew. Not even the very first verse in the bible - - - - and we are to trust their version of the bible - - - - that has been modified to support their concept - - - are we to trust these people - - - - - -

The bible talks in old testament about having to watch out for false profits and false leaders - - - we see them all the time - - - The big news on right now is Jesse Jackson - - so called minister - - - We have had Baker, Falwell and others in recent times - - - and over the centuries - - many have started and many have failed - - some have carried forward - - - - and lasted - - - but are they real - - really driven and following the word of GOD,

The simple aspect of they are saying you have to come to us to show you your way to salvation - - - while the bible has Jesus saying over and over again - - Come Directly to me. You do not need anyone to show you the way etc.

That Jesus warns us more than once - - - that people will be trying to claim that I am hiding in secret caverns or chambers - - - do not believe them for when I come it will be like the lighting flashing from the east to the west - - - - I take this to be - - when He come back - - it will be known - - - what in accent times was more noticeable than this type of lighting - - - Yet I have had JW's tell me that Jesus is with them - - but when pushed realize this can not be true and back off - - - - trying to believe what they are being told - - trying to have faith that this is right and true - - - -

JW's like many religions try to say they are the only way to salvation - - - and the JW's do a better job than most - - - -

So being DF means more to them - - - for here we have the ruling body - - - backed by GOD kicking you out and taking your salvation - - - - I have seen what this can do to a person. My son was not a JW nor was his mother - - - yet because of the problems with his mother and anger towards he for what she was doing (Daughter had already left her home for mine - could not take the hair pulling and kicking any more ) was read to slit his wrist over this as he felt that he had lost his salvation because he had so much anger towards his mom - - - so yes this is powerful - - control salvation - - - - provide or remove - - - members fall into step - -

In this read only what is provided - - So much no time to read or research other aspects.
To not question, for you are then questioning the word of GOD, and is that right - -

I have talked with JW's that had been underlining the bible sections that they were to read. And came to realize that whole sections were not covered - - and when they started looking at these sections - - - questions occurred - - when the asked about what they read - - they were removed from the JW's and not allowed to talk or say to others what they found out - - - - what do they have to fear - - - - - if the JW's are so right - - - That the ruling body is truly with GOD and Jesus - - - and being guided by them - - what do they have to fear - - - and I should blindly follow them - - - in what ever they want to do or say - -

I see many other religions having members get hyped up - - - blindly following what the minister says - - as he is the man of God, - - I see the same here - - - - only worst as this is on a large scale and controls so many aspect of a JW's life - - -

even doing things to make others look at you strange and question what you are doing and saying going - - this does not make sense - - -and the JW's love this as it means just like the bible says - - the end is coming soon - - - as true believers will be persecuted - - see just like we are - - - so what is causing what - - - your actions and off the wall beliefs - - no birthdays - - no christmas, yet the founder celebrated Christmas and even sent out Christmas cards - - Seen Watchtower - - comment about how great his cards were. yet now you loose your salvation is you have Christmas or a child's birthday party. Why - just to be different - - to make others look at you as if you are strange - - - JW's were not this way in the beginning - - - but new light - - has changed this - - - Why? Is this man or God's doing - - - How is God directing the ruling body. The official word in the 80's and before was spirits came in the night to the ruling body or head. That these spirits are from GOD - - or we are to believe - - - - but what if they are not from GOD, but from an other means - - - or source - - - - that is my question - - - we always talk about the Devil and his means - - - would this not be one of his means - - - that is my question - - but yet if a JW starts asking these types of questions - - - they react and he can be DF'ed fast.

Now would a loving and kind God act this way - - - What is a loving and kind God to be afraid of? - - - - - He is not afraid of the light or exposure - - - -

who would be afraid of the light? - - - who would be afraid of being exposed? - - - you know the answer to that

And with a small ruling body that has no checks and balances - - - that all follow blindly as if they are saying the word of God. - - - - would not the Devil want to divert the ruling body - - only a few to get so many - - - - hum - - - would the Devil be tempted - - - so many for so little work - - - - - Millions of blind followers - - -

For these reasons - - Jesus said over and over - - come directly to me - - - Come Directly to me - - - - Come Directly to me - - - - - you do not need anyone in the way - - - for just this vary reason - - - - - - - -

So again, I have done my research - - better than you have - - - if the JW members, stopped and thought about this - - - the background of the religion - - how it got started, what they are really saying - - the spin they put on everything to make them look like they are truly with GOD, Saying that they have the answers - - - all of them - - as we are with GOD and he is with us. - - - - - while they have no more answers than others do. - - - - -

I believe in freewill, I believe in using my brain and thinking, pondering and see what is what - - - - I do not simply believe in blind faith - - - God and Jesus never said we should have blind faith - - - - Jesus warns us quite a few times about what people will do - - and say in the name of the lord. - - - That the end is near and that there will be those that claim that I am with them, that the end is near, that people would try to look and look for
times, sayings, what ever to prove that now is the end of the times. A couple of months ago, I heard a person at Costco talking to one of the sample givers - - and hear came that same bible talk about end of the times and we have this proof and that proof from the bible and I looked at them and when - - - ah, Jesus says that he does not know - - so how can you - - - and that many have failed - - - as the information is not in the bible - - - Many things are not truly known - - what year something happened. Just around this time - - yet they will try to use 7 times this period of time - - results in this year - - but if you actually research this - - - and most do not as they do not have access to the information - - the 7 times is from the 7 angels - - - and and - - they do this till they get numbers that leads to a result that they want - - and then gather followers based upon this - - - - - - -

I will not simply follow a man - - just because he says that he is with GOD.

In the old testament - - the bible talks about people that will speak words in the name of GOD that was not commented by GOD - - - - GOD says do not worry about them, for I will deal with them at my own time in my own way.

I take this as a warning about this type of people - - - the Bakers, and others, including ones that have been shown in the past to not have been truthful and honest with me or others. That their words have been proven false more than once - - - and some of the vary foundations of their words are against the words of Jesus.

GOD is basically saying - - let them be, do not get worried about them - - GOD is also saying to realize that people and groups will be like this - - - as this is part of life - - -
GOD is also saying be weary of these people - - - do not blindly follow as there are people like this - - - - - Be aware - - - but also do not get c0nsumed worrying about these people - the ones that are speaking words in the name of GOD not commanded by GOD, Simply let them be, For HE will deal with them at his choice of time and means - - - - - I do not fear GOD for my GOD is a loving and kind GOD, but these words speak fear to me - - - I do not want GOD to deal with me at his choice of time and means - - - - that is an open statement of unknown results - - - I had a JW elder read this once to me over the phone - - this was after he was saying all sorts of stuff - - trying to make the bible say what it did not say.

That minister that taught accent Greek and Hebrew - - - and helped people that came out of the JW's, He was shocked that I managed to do that to an elder - - - Used his own words - - his twisting of GOD's words - - - this way - - needless to say the Elder exploded when he realized what he had said and what it meant - - - - - - By the Elder's own words - - he had been speaking words of GOD that was not commanded by GOD and I pointed this out to him - - - - and made him realize that he was facing GOD's wreath because of it - - -

Note an attack simply proves their point - - the end of the times is here, so I did not attack simply asked for explanations for what different things said and meant - - -

So yes, I did the research - - I had copies of all of the documents, this was 20 years ago. - -

So again - - - with a ruling body - - that controls salvation for millions would the ruling body be a prime target for the Devil,

Note the ruling body says they get their new light by spirits in their dreams - - - I go yea right. - - - and my comment if this is really true - - - and they believe in spirits - - ah where are they in the bible - - - and that the spirits are actually doing this - - - who are the spirits - - GOD's or the Devils. - - - -

In the bible - - angels would come down and talk with the people - - not spirits - - -

So again - - who and what are the spirits - - - - - this is documented in writings of JW's.
that is my question to all - - - - - -

Jim P.
 afashionlady
Joined: 4/19/2008
Msg: 134
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 7:25:40 AM

This thread was not meant to be a religous debate that you have obviously felt it is, it was meant for the OP to get a feel for if her interest in this particular guy was going to lead anywhere.


Jim P...what he said. Your posts are so long and so numerous, did you ever actually answer the OP's question? I tried to read them but I only got so far.

The question basically was does the poster have a chance at a happy relationship, as an agnostic, with someone who's a Jehovah's Witness?

Not, let's argue the tenets of this religion/faith thread.

So...short answer Jim P--do you think it would work? I'm not a JW, nor am I interested in becoming one. I did date a gentleman who is one and gave my experiences on that. Please...do just what some of us have done. Answer the OP's question.
 carolann0308
Joined: 12/9/2006
Msg: 136
view profile
History
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 8:41:59 AM
Taking religion out of this completely. I'd say his response to your apprehension is like saying this relationship will never go anywhere BUT I'd be happy to date you/sleep with you for now.
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 139
view profile
History
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 1:39:12 PM
bible based - - - it is their version of the bible and many things are taken out of context.

and the JW's have to have the Ruling Body translate the bible for them as we are all to dumb to read and understand the bible - - - as it was written in code - - - see early Studies in Scriptures. - - - - - and why we needed to buy and read it - - -

and many parts of the bible are not covered in the studies for a good reason.

and yes, I have been around it and have seen it and looked at the past and what they say.

The facts about number of members that leave is not stated, The number of failed marriages is the same or higher than the general population. Suicide rate is higher than the general population.

many members try to skirt the regulations - - Ok this is not a birthday party for my son as I am having it two days after his birthday so this is just a normal party as they try to have a normal life while still being a JW.

and what about Jesus saying come directly to me. - - - - -
JW's are trying to say that Jesus said put no other before me. - - - true he did - - but he was talking about other God's and not simply a child's birthday. and by the way was not part of the JW's in the beginning. - - - only later - - -

guess what the more that the JW's but these types of requirements upon the members, the more they get looked at as funny and questioned and put down - - - and the spin is that proves that we are "in the end of the times" - - - so we need to prepare - - - -

in the 70's they tried to say - - no Valentines, no yearly celebration of your marriage. - - as this was putting yourself before God. When the divorce rate shot up - the JW's backed off on this position - - - - in what they called new enlightenment.

I speak what I know - - most of this you do not know or realize. - - - you claim it is not true - how can it be true - - - This is not the religion that I see - - - - but it is - - - - They are very good and hiding the past- -- explaining away the past - -

I have a question for you - -- - How does the ruling body get it's direction and guidance?

be careful when you ask this question as you might not like the answer and the resulting questions that will follow in your mind - - - - - I have seen JW documents where they say that the leader got his direction and guidance from Spirits in his dreams. - - - - Does GOD use Spirits or the Devil,

Now of course - - they have to make the religion look good and promising - - to draw people in - - - -

Just like the Black Panthers did in the late 60's and 70's - - lots of social work, helping the homeless etc. - - - all the while collecting donations and weapons for the take over of America. Yes, I knew a woman that was involved, she talked about what fun it was to out to the woods and shot the automatic rifles - - - the Black Panthers came showing good works and then slowly the other side of them showed up - - - - the militant side - - and she ran and left the group.

I did not like the fear aspect of if others in the group did not like what you were doing - - If I was not meeting their standard of belief and way of living - - I risked being DF. You call it cleansing of the faith. - - - - I call it making sure that only the leaders way is considered. Hiding in the dark, not allowing questions that they might not like to be
said - - - -

Independent research - - - simply does not happen in the JW world - - they feed what you are to read and study - - they give you so much that you do not have the time and energy to think beyond what they want you to know.

I have been there - - - I have seen this - - - - - I see the spin that they put on things.

Now I am not faulting the followers - - but the leaders that are doing this - - - The elders that know better - - - -

I lead a honest and true life - - I do not have to put on a show for a church group - - of any type and then go and do as I want - -- - - - have Christmas a couple of days later so it is not really Christmas - - - - ah - - give me a break - - -

I believe that GOD wants people that are true to themselves, Honest in their hearts. Are not tempted by false profits and leaders claiming to be with GOD, we see this all the time do we not - - - I believe as in the bible - - the angels have powers, untold powers, GOD wants people that have the ability to control and handle these types of powers - - This requires a strength of mind, a knowledge of yourself. GOD does not want a show - - in church or at the Hall, or to others - - while being an other way. This is called trying to buy your way to heaven. Heaven is not for Sale, that has been stated over and over in the bible - in many ways. - - - - -

In all of this I strive everyday to become - - but as a human and only one was ever perfect, I only strive for this - - - in this I do not need a ruling body that goes against what Jesus said many times - - - Come directly to me.

I just can not feel that having a birthday party for your child is in any way taking anything from GOD. Nor, celebrating with your wife one more year together. A relationship that is bound in GOD's eyes and encouraged by GOD to have these types of relationships.
(this was against policy time frame of the 60's and 70's - - they ruling body also tried to say now to make love - - - and had to back off on that)

I refuse to have others put Guilt upon me - - to make me behave as they desire - - - GOD does not do this - - - it is man's use of GOD's name to put forth control of the flock - - - to build the church. Some religions do this more than others. - - -

The JW's put a lot of guilt upon the members, - - - any thoughts that are different than what they teach, or say, means you are not one of the true faith - - so you try harder and harder to find that true faith - - - even if you have questions, for these questions are signs that you do not have true faith and are not one of the true believers that will get a place in heaven - - Oh right those are all taken by the first true believers. And now you get to be a ruling person - - of a section of this planet for 1000 years instead. Sorry about miss speaking before about this - - - -

I find that most people are not able to be the leader or have the skills to be so. So here comes the comments of GOD will change me so that I will be able to. If GOD could change us this easy. Why does he need to be selective? - - he can simply change any of us - - - - Robbers, Murders, etc. - - - -

I do not believe that GOD simply wants sheep to blindly follow him as so many religions try to have us believe. Too many parts of the bible, do not say that.
 ladylike06
Joined: 2/16/2006
Msg: 140
view profile
History
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 2:00:55 PM
I think you all need to find out what Jehovah's witnesses stand for... They are loving kind people doing Jehovah's will. Many of you need to look into them instead of putting Jehovah's witnesses down... And Pandora I think you should find out all you can about Jehovah's witnesses you might benefitt from it.
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 143
view profile
History
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 2:56:06 PM
Minor points - - - - compared to all that I have said.

a minor point and you claim that I am not right - - - -

Yes some of the holidays were taken over from Roman holidays.
This was done back then so as to not conflict and cause problems

Valentines - - - is still a symbol of love to one and other - - - -
what is wrong with that - - - - Only the JW's will complain.

So what is your problem. - - - - -

Jim P.
 friendseeker68
Joined: 5/17/2008
Msg: 151
view profile
History
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 8:38:03 PM
While not being a Jehovas witness, I have studied with them, and have several witness friends, I do know that His religion frowns on dating or being married to someone in the "truth" as they call it, scripture states something about being "unevenly yoked" in spiritual beliefs, I dont remember the exact scripture, but I do know the elders in his "church" probably would not marry the two of you, and would possibly ostracize Him and you if you get married outside of the religion, he may be under the belief He can convert you, it is not a bad religion, and I do admire their enthusiasm, it is not a religion I could join, and if he drops out of the religion, he may come to resent and possibly hate you, the witnesses I have seen drop out of the truth have had extreme reactions to not being in their religion, such as extreme jealousy, alcoholism, sexual promiscuity, etc, so be sure you are aware , and have a sit down conversation with him, and if he is having sex with you, he is not a true witness, hope this has helped,, Jim
 JamesP166
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 153
view profile
History
Non-Religious Person dating a Jehovah's Witness
Posted: 7/20/2008 8:46:04 PM
My problem is that your facts are inacurate.

are you sure about that - - - - or are you only hearing the spin that they want y0u to believe - - - -

And you are not even willing to conceed that you may be even close to wrong. remember just a few hundred years ago people on this planet believed the earth was flat, and anyone who thought differently was scourned and hung for their "blasphemis" way of thinking... now we know they were right.

this is very true - - - but facts are facts - - - I know what I have read and seen - - in JW publications - - I have verified with an Elder that these are actually publications by the JW's. The fact that you do not like what I am saying is your problem not mine - - - I have back up facts and details to back what I have been saying - - you do not seem to - - to you it just can not possibly right - - - -

You state all these so called "facts" about Jehovah's Witnesses and their faith, but you have no basis for them. You are not one of them clearly, nor will you ever grasp what they truely believe.

I have been to their "Services" I have done independent research into the religion,
and know what they are told to believe.

and I do understand what they truly believe - - - but they do not know the whole story, for if they did - - they would think twice about it - - - The organization is very good at providing information - - - - and guiding thought process and if you question, it you risk DF - - If I stayed involved, my questions would have got me kicked out real quick - - for they would not want me to be planting these seeds of thought to be pondered. The simply asking of questions that they do not want asked - - -

Just because someone's belief is different then yours does not make it wrong. Just different. And you come one here and write these ling posts stating how those of us who were raised in the faith have no idea what we are talking about. and frankly we would be the ones to answer the original question and isn't that the point here?

It is very well proven fact that you have only been told a certain amount of information.
Have you read the Oct '68 watchtower that said the end of the times is coming and we have all of the information - - - we know the date and time - - - and the follow on publications saying this over and over - - -Have you seen these watchtowers?

If not then you have not checked out what I have said - - have you - - - - -

I hate to tell you this, but I have personally read the bible several times, and several versions too, and it seems you have never even opend the book.

and you claim to be sure about that - - - -
My understanding of the bible is more full and complete than yours.

Jehovah's Witnesses do NOT have their own version, just one that is easier to read then the one you are trying pass off...

Ah, the spin that they are putting on it now. - - - when it was first published they tried to get the experts in religion to read and say that it was a good translation. They could not get a single one - - even by paying them. - - - - It is considered by all other churches as a bad translation. It is considered by all religious scholars to be a bad translation.

Reason - - - not a single person that worked on it - had any knowledge of accent Greek and Hebrew - - - - They simply picked and choose what they wanted from all of the other bibles - - - variations that fit what they wanted it to say - - - When I was involved it was pushed as their bible - - - the true word, and better than others - - but you can still refer to the others, but you should have our version also. - - so now they are only saying it is easier to read - - - OK, the spin has changed over the years.

This forum is here to help people who need it when it comes to dating and finding true love, it is not here for your open boasting of false religious beliefs and neither is it here for you to bash another religion just because you do not believe in what it teaches.

as of yet you have not proven a single point that I have said is wrong - - - just lash out - -

and there are other religions that I will blast all day long - - - Radical Muslim. That is a diverted religion for man's only purpose, It is not main stream Muslim, It is twisting things around to justify what they want to do - - - - now some of the more current twisting are causing Muslims to pause and think about what the Radical Muslims are saying and are going - - you know this is not what Muslim is about - - - and note, because of this Bin Laden is loosing support around the world - - - as Muslims are starting to go - - who the hell are you, Bin Laden. Even the cleric's (including Radical ones) are starting to go - - now wait a second - - - -

James, you need to take a step back and realize that you need to vent obviously, and though it can get expensive, theropists are availible to you. There are even other forums set up for the sole purpose of fighting over religious beliefs.

I am just explaining - - - what is what - - - I am not venting - - I did that years ago when I started having my questions about what was being said and started checking out the background and foundation of the religion. Found many things wanting - - - Found that words were being added to the bible that were not in the bible, to make their religion fit with what they want it to be - - - I found the people were blindly following - - - what they were being told - - - and if they desired to question it - - they were not allowed to - - - Simply peer pressure and fear of DF.

James, in this case, you are out of line and need to conceed. You are alone in your thoughts and taking way to much time to force YOUR views and YOUR ideals on the general public, when this is in no way why we are all here on Plentyoffish.com.

I am not out of line in presenting to the person that is concerned about a relationship with a JW to allow them to realize what is involved and what they are getting into - -

but facts are facts - - - you may not like them - - that is your problem - - - -

James, you need to find a different avenue to express how you feel. Join some of these television evangelists or write a book. Start a talk show, or plaster your home and car with this stuff, but if you are going to add a post in a public forum designed to help someone with a RELATIONSHIP issue, stick to the topic at hand, and leave the religious persecution and obvious contempt for people who are nicer, cleaner, SMARTER and less forcefull then you, where it belongs, in your trash can or your bathroom.

ah, I see the intelligence that you are talking about that you have - - -
what I have found is that JW's claim to be nicer, cleaner and smarter than others - - that is what they are being told - - - to believe - - - - simply that does not make it true, Just as in many religions, - - the aspect of all others are not as good as we are - - is present - - seen it many times - - The aspect of we are the only one that is right - - I have seen that many times. Just saying it - - just being preached this does not make it right - - - -

Formal Reports from the 50's found that very few JW's had graduated from College, and a small % had from High School, That has increased over the years. - - but is still low compared to the general population - - - even my second wife that was in it for a while realized this was true about the JW's - - - - - The education factor might be because they always are lead to believe that the end is near - - so why worry about an education. - - - better to work and prepare for the end of the times that is coming soon. "We have all the proof that we need. " Oct '68 watchtower - - -

James, if you feel you need to express your misconstrewd views of world religions, then find an aduience that is willing to listen to what you have to say. That is all that I am saying. Judge me if you want, ridicule me if you prefer, but just keep your opinions and false teachings to yourself. Remember this country was FOUNDED by people who were trying to escape religious persecution and it is even written in the very constitution you live under yourself, freedom from this kind of tyranny. Each is ALLOWED their own views, and if Jehovah's witnesses chose to live like they do, more power to them. Do not hate them for it, just respect their opinions are different then yours.

ah the founders - - escape religious persecution. - - - let see they were known as the Puritans for a reason - - - they could not tolerate any other religion or beliefs. - - - They were not persecuted - - - they hassled all others in the name of their religion - - with no tolerance for others - - - In this they caused their own problems - - - if you lived next to one they would be putting you down, and causing problems - - - because of this, they went from Country to Country - - - - with the same problems occurring each time - -Others wanted to leave them alone, But the Puritans would not leave the others alone - - Finally in their religious faith decided to start over in the new world - - - Now there is a lot of information about what they did here- - - - but that is an other topic for an other time - - -

and guess what - - - just like I said before - - any disagreement - - becomes an attack upon you and you dig in - - - as this is proving that "the end of the times" is here - -

And James, I know what you are thinking, but keep this in mind, even the right to freedom of speech has been challenged in the supreme courts several times. And yes you do have the right to an opinion, and you do have a right to express it, but there are appropriate avenues and this is not one of them. This site is not designed to suppoort a religious debate, why can't you seem to understand that?

I am simply stating facts - - - if you do not like them - - as it seems to you to be an attack upon your beliefs - - - that is your right - - - but all I am doing is pointing out aspects about your religion that you are not aware of - - - - such as how is the enlightenment given to the ruling body? Can you answer me that? How was it done before the time of a ruling body? I have seen a JW publication that stated how - - - spirits in dreams came to the leader- - - - - that is how he got his enlightenment - - - - - do you know this? - - - are you aware of this? - - - why don't you check on it? Afraid to?

So in conclusion James, unless you have a quick line of advice for the OP of this whoile discussion about whether or not she would be wise to persue a relationship of the sort, let it go. We do not care how you feel enough to hear you write a damn thesis on it.

I believe people should know what they are getting into - - - and be aware of - - -
I believe in education and intelligence, I believe that all might not be as it seems, I believe that things should be checked out - - find out what is really going on and being said - - as in the JW's faith - - - what is the real religion - - - just as the Radical Muslims are starting to realize that they have been betrayed by their leaders - - - look at all of the religions and ministers that have been proven wrong - - We have all heard the statement that power corrupts. - - - Look at the power of the prior leaders of the JW and now the ruling body. With no fear of being removed - - for they say they have the backing of GOD - - -

Yet remember the old testament - - - If any one should say in my name words that I have not commanded, GOD will deal with them at his time and place - - - that simply mean we need to see who is speaking these words for GOD is not going to strike him down in a minute but when he gets around to it. - - It also means that we have to be careful of who we put our trust and faith into - - - - are they really worthy of it? - - - To me people that claim to be in contact with the Lord for enlightenment by means of spirits in their dreams - - - - - - I leave that to you to decide - - - - If you can accept this about your religion - that is your choice - - - I just request that you stop and check on this to find out if this might happen to be true. Ask how the enlightenment is given - - - - See what they say -- - think about it - - - does it make sense - - - Do this before you blindly lash out thinking that what I am saying can not possibly true then we can have a full discussion on this - - - right now you do not want to hear what might be some truths about your beliefs. - - - -

To me life is always a growing and learning experience - - - It is not to be an experience of blindly following someone in what they say - - - many do this claiming to speak the word of GOD - - - We have to decide for ourselves are they really - - - - or are we getting spin - -

Jim P.
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