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 MrGordonGecko
Joined: 6/29/2006
Msg: 65
Is it still expected that men pay for everythingPage 2 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
As a general rule, whomever does the asking does the paying.


You know, I've heard this theory often enough and I can't work my way around it.

Men do most of the asking. Normal social convention. I don't care how progressive women say they are getting in modern society, men do most of the asking.

So "whomever does the asking does the paying" really is just the guy paying. But with a catch. Now with that caveat emptor hitched along, it's now, "Ok I want you to pay, but I really don't want to owe you anything at all and so it's clear, society says I don't need you and you are lucky to be sitting in front of me and paying for my dinner."

Ok real life doesn't work that way. If a guy buys you coffee, that does not entitle him to sex. If a guy buys you dinner, that does not entitle him to sex. If a guy takes you to see a movie, that does not entitle him to sex. Ok, men get that, thats ok and we understand that. But that's not what alot of women really want. Many want to keep that "I'm strong and independent and I don't need you at all" vibe going and have you pay at the same time.

So that's why paying for dates has become so complicated. In the old days, a man paying for a date was not just courtesy, but a sign that he could provide. That makes perfect sense in terms of the courting/dating ritual. But in modern times, now women want a man to show he can provide, but WITHOUT trampling on the women's desire to show that she really doesn't need him.

How in the hell can any guy reasonably deal with that kind of contradiction?

No, buying you dinner does not mean guys get to have sex with you. However like anything else, a large number of women take that shit way way too far. Some women want to milk ten dinners out of you, or ten movies out of you, or ten coffee dates out of you. Not because they like you, but because the attention and free dinners are often nice. I won't lie, I would LOVE it, ABSOLUTELY LOVE IT if I got tons of attention and someone buying me dinner all the time and chasing me. But it doesn't work that way, I'm a guy, and guys don't get that. And guys know nothing in life is really free. One dinner, sure no expectations. Five to ten dinners? Ok if you think you are sending the message of "no expectations" at that point, then you are simply delusional.

No free lunches. That's real life. Nothing in life is free. It's like a drug dealer, ok first one is gratis, to establish the courting situation, to feel things out. Nothing happens, no harm, no foul. But it's the women who keeps coming back and expecting gratis no matter what without offering anything in return that complicates this situation. Then it becomes just downright rude.

So yes ladies, you gotta qualify this out. After the FIRST DINNER, no, no man has the right to expect to get between your legs. But after dinner number FIVE TO TEN TO FIFTEEN, and you still aren't interested in this person other than good steaks and the warm glow of attention, what message are you exactly sending?

Let that be a lesson to the young men in here, the young bucks who are still coming up and finding their way in the world. You can't even have dinner and pull out your wallet anymore without it being a contested issue. This is what you young bucks have to look forward to in the dating world. And I think it's sad, it's sad that these young guys were not around to see a time when this was all simpler. When they didn't have to sift through a minefield of contradictions just to have a steak. But you young guys, the women who kick and scream about not needing you and not needing your money and all that for a first date? They are doing you a favor. Kick them to the curb. Don't get me wrong, there are times in life when a young man should pay for things, sometimes everything, but always remember the message that money sends and always remember to do it on your terms.
 Tiina
Joined: 6/23/2005
Msg: 67
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Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 8/30/2006 6:30:47 AM
I'm 48, and I really like it when the man pays for the date. It makes me feel cared for. In my heart of hearts I still see the man as the provider, despite what feminism says, and I want the man to pay.
 flowerforce
Joined: 9/6/2006
Msg: 68
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 9/20/2006 5:25:29 PM
I would never feel insulted if the man paid. But I would also offer to pay the next time Or ask him to my house for dinner or some such.
 Ravager
Joined: 2/1/2004
Msg: 69
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 9/20/2006 5:54:19 PM
I will say this, women got their equal rights just like everyone else. If a woman wants to go out with me, why should I pay every single time? That my friends, is BS. (I didn't use to be that way, but a few things changed my view on the matter.)

She can pay half. Unless I feel alright about paying for everything.
 MotleyGrrl
Joined: 7/8/2006
Msg: 72
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 11/10/2006 6:17:07 PM
Yes. But I have yet to see it happen 100%.
 YamIhere
Joined: 3/17/2005
Msg: 76
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Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 11/10/2006 7:27:48 PM

Is it still expected that men pay for everything

No way in hell and if you do, you're a fool. Women make their own money now. This isn't 1950. Women have careers and make damn good money that spends every bit as well as yours does. No offense to the dude above, but believing it to be "gentlemanly" is just stupid and your falling into the trap. In the "olden days" it made sense cuz few women had money. Keeeee-rist, guys, wake the hell up. The whole idea of chivalry is turning us into subservients. And believe me, if a woman is turned off by you asking - nay, insisting - that she pay her half of the bill, move on. You're better off.
 Sparklin
Joined: 9/1/2006
Msg: 77
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 11/10/2006 7:53:23 PM
I think it's really only an issue on the first date. If either of us is uncertain of ever seeing the other again, then I want to pay at the very least, half. I don't care how much money you have and neither do I want to know. All I know is that I wouldn't agree to GO to out, if I couldn't afford to....regardless if he is paying or not. I want to make sure the option is available that I CAN pay if I want to. If it's going very well, and we are going elsewhere, then I don't care if he pays, because I'll pay for the next time!
 sparticuss
Joined: 5/9/2006
Msg: 79
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 11/11/2006 12:35:13 AM
Now let me see.
What have we really got here.
I'm seeing a culture with still worships the leech, the overdressed hyena, who is succking quality men dry, like a parasite. And what disturbs me is that its mug guys who are the main cause of this.


Gentelmen!!!!!! Do you really think that you are NOT paing for the three grand worth of deisgner fashion and the ten grand worth of jewellery hangin off your date??
You are.

You will foot the total bill for dinner, in the second flashiest resturant in town and the money she saves goes on shoes. Her last mug boyfriened paid for half the jewellery she has hanging off her right now. She is so shallow that she dumped him when she heard some false, malicous gissop about him bed hopping.

And, after you have shelled out for her next load of jewellery she will dump you for the same reason.


The girl who does pay her own way can't afford the fancy clobber. But she will check out your bedhopping habits long before she dumps you. And she will meet your sister that way. And will never tell either her or you, that she originally though she was yoru little bit on the side.

It's not a question of chivialry, or money. It's a question of attitude.
 sparticuss
Joined: 5/9/2006
Msg: 80
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 11/11/2006 12:35:30 AM
Now let me see.
What have we really got here.
I'm seeing a culture with still worships the leech, the overdressed hyena, who is succking quality men dry, like a parasite. And what disturbs me is that its mug guys who are the main cause of this.


Gentelmen!!!!!! Do you really think that you are NOT paing for the three grand worth of deisgner fashion and the ten grand worth of jewellery hangin off your date??
You are.

You will foot the total bill for dinner, in the second flashiest resturant in town and the money she saves goes on shoes. Her last mug boyfriened paid for half the jewellery she has hanging off her right now. She is so shallow that she dumped him when she heard some false, malicous gissop about him bed hopping.

And, after you have shelled out for her next load of jewellery she will dump you for the same reason.


The girl who does pay her own way can't afford the fancy clobber. But she will check out your bedhopping habits long before she dumps you. And she will meet your sister that way. And will never tell either her or you, that she originally though she was yoru little bit on the side.

It's not a question of chivialry, or money. It's a question of attitude.
 Whitetigeress
Joined: 8/3/2006
Msg: 81
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 11/11/2006 1:24:20 AM
lol.. it would be nice

but no .. not everything
 BUSBOY929HUNTING
Joined: 8/13/2011
Msg: 84
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/17/2011 9:35:19 AM
YOU SHOULD GIVE UP SOME KITTY
 lacalli
Joined: 11/27/2011
Msg: 85
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/17/2011 9:47:21 AM
^^^There are a lot of kitties at the pound that people gave up. Try there.
 SweetLilGTP
Joined: 10/22/2010
Msg: 86
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/17/2011 9:49:56 AM


You said "kitties" and "pound".

I'm buying a lil black one as soon as I move.




Sometimes women insist upon paying at least their own way, so a man doesn't have the "Hey! I PAID for it!" advantage to use against them


Those are the smart ones; who have integrity, and like life free of useless drama.


::::sigh:::: I just reread that. I think I read too many books on manners when I was growing up


I think you may just be lovely.

That's all.
 Agallah005
Joined: 3/23/2006
Msg: 87
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/17/2011 9:50:15 AM
my girlfriend is 29 and I paid for our first date and the second one, by the fourth, she paid for some food at a Sonics because it was on her side of the car and I didn't want to use my credit card. she told me"atleast let me pay for something", LOL...I just don't mind pampering my girl becuase she doesn't expect it at all. She's pretty frugal so she doesn't expect much. I like paying but if they insist then I don't mind it either, but I usually reach for the check. some pay the tip while I pay for the whole meal, others pay half of the meal, which is cool as well. To each their own. I guess some guys are really really cheap though, and that might make them weary or something, LOL
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 88
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Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/17/2011 9:54:59 AM
"YOU SHOULD GIVE UP SOME KITTY" You should not be typing in all CAPS, it's against the posting rules. Seriously, maybe you should give up and just say what you mean....it's the guys that take you out, then expect some "put out" too lazy or cheap to just state it as it is. Do your kids read your posts...ehh. I know I wouldn't be afraid to let my kids read any of mine, they're too busy and would find it boring.

If you want to get laid, at least be honest about it...sheesh. It's the creeps that keep so many women from wanting to talk to or meet.
 TexasNightOwl
Joined: 8/24/2008
Msg: 89
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/21/2011 2:45:30 AM

Everyday it seems there is a different thread about who pays.. Have men become so cheap that they cant even spend 20 dollars on dinner anymore??


So whom do you think is cheaper, the man that thinks it is unfair to have to spend 20+ dollars on dinner and other things, or the woman that thinks the man should pay (and turn down her offer to pay half, because she won't ever go on a 2nd date with a guy that accepts her offer.)
 DomG79
Joined: 3/12/2011
Msg: 90
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/21/2011 3:09:35 AM
I will pay at first, but if I have to every time, I feel like I am being used. They would either have to cook for me or pay once in awhile.
 SeaCatcher
Joined: 9/11/2011
Msg: 91
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/21/2011 3:23:02 AM
I am 58 and prefer to pay for myself on a date. There's a reason for this. In much of my experience when guys have paid for me they expect something or other in return (sex). I prefer to have sex freely, and not as "pay back" of the costs of the date. I really hate sex used as a commodity.
 DomG79
Joined: 3/12/2011
Msg: 92
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/21/2011 3:46:37 AM
If there is no kitty after the second date, I figure that they probably don't like me.
 Prometheus23
Joined: 5/31/2008
Msg: 93
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/28/2011 1:22:16 PM
CHIVALRY

I don't find much of difference between this and slavery.

Hate away.
 debbi101358
Joined: 9/29/2010
Msg: 94
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/28/2011 1:38:56 PM
you sir are a gentleman,i bet you open doors too...
 Imclassique
Joined: 12/2/2011
Msg: 95
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/28/2011 1:40:46 PM
The man should give the lady his credit card and she pay so she feels emancipated.
Its a respect thing, not about the money per say, but trust without expectation.
Nothing warms a womans heart quicker than the offer of a mans credit card, geepers that's old news.
 hotmerlot
Joined: 11/3/2011
Msg: 96
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/28/2011 6:15:19 PM
The first few dates should be dutch until you both have the measure of each other and understand any possible expectations.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 97
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Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/29/2011 10:00:15 AM
the short answer,,,,,YES!!!!!
 dmzvisitor
Joined: 3/25/2011
Msg: 98
Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Posted: 12/29/2011 10:36:07 AM

Posted By: want to travel on 12/29/2011 12:00:15 PM
Subject: Is it still expected that men pay for everything
Message: the short answer,,,,,YES!!!!!


Expected by whom? As this thread shows, some men assume they are expected to pay; some women do not have that expectation.

I think the "whoever asks" rule is clearest. It may still feel like there is a gender bias--well, only by the poor guys who think that women "never" initiate contact or dates--but realistically, it is at least literally gender neutral.

And guys, if you initiate, and then after a few dates a girl/woman is not offering to pay, initiating plans, etc., she is not that into you! (I personally want to "pay my own way" in the stage where we are still exploring compatibility, so I'm not shy about initiating dates, first or 2nd, and paying for what I initiate. If I know I'm not going to see him again after the first date, I insist on paying my own way. No point in him footing the whole bill when I know I am not interested.)
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