Plentyoffish dating forums are a place to meet singles and get dating advice or share dating experiences etc. Hopefully you will all have fun meeting singles and try out this online dating thing... Remember that we are the largest free online dating service, so you will never have to pay a dime to meet your soulmate.
     
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Jews....sacred cows ??      Home login  
 AUTHOR
 saltytowers
Joined: 8/15/2006
Msg: 14
Jews....sacred cows ??Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
Whoa. Emotive issue here.

To put things into historical perspective a little.

Countries or war lords invade other countries or war lords.

They kill the men, rape the women, then kill them in front of their children, and enslave the children. The remaining 'allowed' residents (aka useful work force) have all sworn allegance (sp?) to the new king, boss, ruler, and the new religion of whoever conquered them.

Big fish eats small fish. This has been going on forever and ever and ever everywhere, and its about wealth, and reseources or (often) the fact that the invading lot have aleady messed up their own play pen and want somewhere fresh and new.

Re slavery. It has been standard throughout millions of years.

What has changed is that we now have big ships, planes, lots of money involved, machinery etc and it is all happening on a very LARGE scale because of it. It's not a personal thing any more.

Re jews? Jews are jews. Even jews who say they are not traditional are still jewish REGARDLESS of where they are. So are Roma (Gipsies) and several others. They are a TRIBE and a WAY OF LIFE not a geographically defined individual who is moulded by local society and lore.

Geographical identification means assimilation (safe) and those who do not, will not, are often seen as a threat (and have been through history) because it means you cant CLONE them into what you expect.

Culture versus Geography situation.

I am Australian and trust me there ARE New Zealand jokes and plenty of them. I am Australian and you should see how aboriginal people are treated here. One of the most affluent countries in the world, with the original people living in often 3rd world conditions. And they have tried NUMEROUS methods of genocide.

How many died? No body cared enough to count them.

And it never hit the news. Not gassed in ovens. But rounded up like cattle yes, and had smallpox introduced to them. Syphilus. Or just shot and left to rot. Gunned down in mass attacks and just left. Not even buried.

The maggots got them.

Do I see anyone shouting FOUL PLAY?

You can try to hide your jewishness if you really want to. Try hiding the fact you are black.

Human nature and the nature of control freaks and invaders throughout the ages.

Oh yes, and they had their children stolen, the women sterilised and the rest used for slave labour and sexual use. They were also scientifically 'proven' to be not a HUMAN species but an ANIMAL species. The different nations/languages/cultures were all herded together as ONE species. Black animals. Apes in fact no less.

Society will and does find the excuse for their intentions all along. A justification for barbaric acts. But hey they wanted the land and the resources all for themself, and with superior weaponry, they just took it.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 15
view profile
History
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/20/2006 9:04:55 AM
Slave Trade Statistics

Writers vary in their estimates, but there is no doubt that the number runs into millions.

GTS Home

The Gambia
Home

Slavery
Home

Modern Slavery


A Slave ship


John Wesley - Methodist and strong opponent of Slavery
Wesley's Anti Slavery speech

African History Source Book
The actual number of men, women and children who were snatched from their homes in Africa and transported in slave ships across the Atlantic, either to the Caribbean islands or to North and South America, will never be known. .

The following figures are taken from Morel's calculations as reproduced by Professor Melville J. Herskovits and cover the period 1666-1800:

1666-1776: Slaves imported only by the English for the English, French and Spanish colonies:3 million (250,000 died on the voyage).

1680-1786: Slaves imported for the English colonies in America: 2,130,000 (Jamaica alone absorbed 610,000).

1716-1756: Average annual number of slaves imported for the American colonies: 70,000, with a total of 3.5 million.

1752-1762: Jamaica alone imported 71,115 slaves.

1759-1762: Guadeloupe alone imported 40,000 slaves.

1776-1800: A yearly average of 74,000 slaves were imported for the American colonies, or a total of 1,850,000; this yearly average was divided up as follows: by the
English, 38,000;
French, 20,000;
Portuguese, 10,000;
Dutch, 4,000;
Danes, 2,000.

5 Top

I simply punched Slave Trade statistics into my search engine and got this. Again, I'm simply asking for the documentation of the statistics you purported, not the conjecture of any one author or irrationaly biased instructor. I was however wrong to subconciously lump inescapable ghettos in the same class as concentration camps, my apologies.

With all due respect trying to arrogantly paint someone as ignorant for asking a question and subsequently not providing anything remotely close to the answer of that question is not something I learned to fall within the precepts of logic at my fine institution of higher learning. I was intsilled with a conviction to put forth plausible premises before I even considered attemptimg to assemble a viable syllogism. Contrary to your emotional assertion I didn't downplay the slave trade. I didn't trivialize the magnitude of the holocaust either. I tried to put each enterprise in its proper perspective and asked a question you failed to answer with any substance whatsoever. In the end history is only revised with the substance of fact IMHO.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 16
view profile
History
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/20/2006 9:53:06 AM
Great post looking. My apolgies for my own dismissive arrogance. Division is an effective political tool, unfortunately the failings of our educational system have made it exponentially stronger.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 17
view profile
History
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/22/2006 9:21:06 PM
I think Ophelia brought up the most valid point--that the persecution of Jews has been a worldwide event for centuries. The OP asked why it seems universally unacceptable to criticize Jews when many people have no problems criticizing Muslims, Christians, Hispanics, whites, or any other religious or racial or ethnic group. Generally, there is history related to why people in different regions and countries have sensitivities to different groups. The history of slavery in the United States has left a legacy that continues to make many whites feel like they need to walk on egg shells around black co-workers, acquaintances, or someone they encounter in a grocery store. Most people have inadvertently offended someone about any number of issues but people's diversity expands the potential for faux pas and misinterpretation. In Texas, there is a high sensitivity between Mexicans and other races and ethnic groups. In Miami, Cubans and Haitians may be a hot button for controversy. I guess the best that can be hoped for is a society that seeks to refrain from criticizing generally about any group of people, regardless of their background.
 AgentSanchez
Joined: 8/10/2006
Msg: 18
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/23/2006 8:22:54 AM
I actually agree with the question you raise. I think that as long as people tiptoe around such an issue and leave it a 'sacred cow', there exists the potential for another holocaust - at least in spirit. None of the nations that I can see WANTING to instigate something like that will ever again have the wherewithal to actually do it.

Anyway.... centuries of persecution means only one thing. ANY incursion against a jewish state is going to result in a very pointed and forceful response from them. I don't see that it has any bearing on jews being fair game for criticism - everyone is.
 lira
Joined: 6/8/2006
Msg: 19
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/23/2006 3:29:55 PM
I am episcapal, but I have 3 half jewish cousins. We never speak reliegion, but I would not feel uncomfortable bring up the subject. Maybe its because I am not an "outsider".
 thegreatrockyhill
Joined: 12/26/2005
Msg: 20
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/27/2006 3:22:50 PM
Unfortunately when people do criticize Israel, they are often branded as anti-semites. Jews who do so are deemed "self-hating". Noam Chomsky is a jew, and he's been accused of being in bed with neo-nazis simply because he doesn't like what Israel's up to.

It's the Holocaust. Zionists raise the "Never Again" flag, and their atrocities are excused. I also think a lot of jews are afraid to speak out against Israel for fear that they'll be called traitors.
 Panagonia
Joined: 7/7/2006
Msg: 21
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/27/2006 3:54:44 PM
In regards to one poster stating that other ethnicities have not seen such pogroms and exectuions as the Jews, here's a few genocides that happened this past century. There's more.

Cambodians/Khmer Rouge - 2 million dead
1915- 23, Armenian Genocide 1 to 1 1/2 million dead
Darfur/Sudan - over 400,000 killed, 2 million displaced
Tutsis and Hutus/Rwanda - 800,00 to over a million dead.

The Jews do not have an exclusive right to being the only people persecuted. To play this card is a slap to all other peoples who have died.
 OpheliaBonMot
Joined: 8/12/2006
Msg: 22
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/27/2006 9:57:40 PM
Panagonia: You left out AIDS, which has killed more than 25 million people to date.

Other tragedies do not negate centuries of suffering the jews have endured, and no one claimed they have any "exclusive rights" to suffering. There are simply other tragedies. No one is denying that they're also terrible.
 Panagonia
Joined: 7/7/2006
Msg: 23
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/28/2006 7:47:23 AM
Ophelia...

While the continued spread of Aids is deplorable, especially in the African continent, I wouldn't include it in the 'genocidal context' which means the systematic extermination of a people by a government/rulling party.

"Other tragedies do not negate centuries of suffering the jews have endured, and no one claimed they have any "exclusive rights" to suffering."

I agree with you. The post was to illustrate that all peoples everywhere have suffered, not just the jews and that efforts should be made to ensure genocide doesn't happen anywhere, anytime for any people.

Unfortuantely, there are still many who believe that the Jewish people were the only ones suffered in this way and deserve special treatment.
 Gorshkov
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 24
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/29/2006 10:39:50 PM

Sorry, but that doesn't really hold water. If that were the case, then people would also refrain from making jokes about Ukrainians, seeing as over 7 (as in SEVEN) million died in a Kremlin-instigated famine in the early 1930s

There's a big difference between the two situations.

*Everybody* knows about the holocost, unless you were born & raised on another planet, in another solar system.

The forced famines in the Ukraine - the almost total destruction of the Cossaks & Gypsy populations - and any number of other genocides committed in the Soviet Union are almost totally unknown to people who do NOT study history, or have a direct connection to the populations involved.
 Gorshkov
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 25
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/29/2006 10:42:52 PM

Panagonia: You left out AIDS, which has killed more than 25 million people to date.

AIDS is genocidal? Did I miss a memo somewhere? I didn't know it was targeting any one particular group or race.
 OpheliaBonMot
Joined: 8/12/2006
Msg: 26
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/30/2006 12:29:00 AM
I've given up trying to post here, because my comments have always been misconstrued - deliberately or not. Perhaps this topic is too much a sore point with too many.

I leave you all to it.
 Gorshkov
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 27
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/30/2006 6:05:08 AM

've given up trying to post here, because my comments have always been misconstrued - deliberately or not. Perhaps this topic is too much a sore point with too many.


I'm sorry that you feel that way - I wasn't trying to misconstrue anything. I just don't understand the point you were trying to make?
 YourEyesOnly
Joined: 7/20/2006
Msg: 28
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/30/2006 10:33:40 AM
Gorschov

The AIDS issue, might very well be a form of genocide itself.

Also, take for example UNICEF. United Nations Internation Children's Education Fund.

So where did all that money go from those kids collecting at Halloween?

Answer, they went to finance abortions, over 90% of it did. The rest probably went to administrative costs.

I guess the best way to educate kids is to annihalate them. Personally I see this as advaned form of genocide.

I see the HIV/AIDS issues as no different. Entirely funded by pharmaciutical stockholders and many organzations like YAC in south africa fronted by the Rockefeller Foundation.

There is no denying that the Rockefeller's have vested interest in genocide. None whatsoever. Jews included.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 29
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/30/2006 11:34:28 AM
I'm going to take the bullet for Gorshkov on this one. Cause this last post is just plain creepy.

As I understand it, the Rockefellers and the Jews are running Unicef so that all the money, except for administrative costs, are used to finance abortions. I kind of think THAT is why we all tend to be a little sensitive when Jews start getting criticised. There's still a whole lot of vicious anti semetism out there.
 MetalHead88
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 30
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/30/2006 2:53:42 PM
"if you want to know who truely runs a nation, ask yourself "who is it that i cannot criticize?".
 Gorshkov
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 31
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/30/2006 2:54:47 PM
quote]The AIDS issue, might very well be a form of genocide itself.

Also, take for example UNICEF. United Nations Internation Children's Education Fund.

So where did all that money go from those kids collecting at Halloween?

Answer, they went to finance abortions, over 90% of it did. The rest probably went to administrative costs.

I guess the best way to educate kids is to annihalate them. Personally I see this as advaned form of genocide.

I see the HIV/AIDS issues as no different. Entirely funded by pharmaciutical stockholders and many organzations like YAC in south africa fronted by the Rockefeller Foundation.

There is no denying that the Rockefeller's have vested interest in genocide. None whatsoever. Jews included.
Your tin foil hat is a little askew.

It was the alians. They're in it with the gay whales.

Geeze.
 Gorshkov
Joined: 5/25/2006
Msg: 32
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/30/2006 2:56:13 PM

"if you want to know who truely runs a nation, ask yourself "who is it that i cannot criticize?"

What a crock. Given the degree of PC in western society, I guess that it would mean that pretty well everybody except white, anglo-saxon males run our nations.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 33
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/30/2006 3:36:50 PM
Let me see, who would I be uncomfortable criticizing? Well, children with terminal illnesses would be at the top of the list. Guess they must be the most powerful. Their families would follow closely.
Those who sacrifice to help others (Salvation Army, World Vision, etc.) are pretty tough to attack. I guess Christian based charity workers would be next most powerful then.

I never would have thought that these two groups are controlling our society.
 YourEyesOnly
Joined: 7/20/2006
Msg: 34
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/30/2006 10:01:39 PM
gorshkov


Gee, gorshkov, what an enligthening post. Must have taken you hours to think of that response. To dig up the research to counter it, to compile it, and then present it so elequently.

I guess you knew that the Rockefellers founded and funded the "eugenics office" of america.

I guess you knew that the Rockefellers financed the Nazis with the Rockefeller and J.P. Morgan investment group.

These guys have been genocidal maniacs for generations. David Rockefeller was the CEO for the three largest drug companies in america at the same time. Their investment on the idea that HIV causes AIDS is in the multi billions. And nobody has donated to the presendancies more than the drug companies, and that means both parties.

Their involvement is depopulation programs is more than evident.
 MetalHead88
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 35
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/31/2006 12:37:12 PM
sorry, but anytime i watch TV or anything else on the media, its fine to make fun of White men. but jews? no......
 MetalHead88
Joined: 5/22/2006
Msg: 36
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 8/31/2006 12:38:36 PM
thats a little different. its simply rude to make fun of the handicapped. but when it comes to jews, you say one thing speaking out against Zionism, Israel, etc...... and all of a sudden you are a bigot, an anti-semite, a nazi, etc..... ad nauseum.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 37
view profile
History
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 6/15/2012 5:26:49 PM

... no race/people has seen tortorous slaughter in those numbers, EVER.
WRONG!

... American Holocaust, David Stannard argues that the destruction of the aboriginal peoples of the Americas, in a "string of genocide campaigns" by Europeans and their descendants, was the most massive act of genocide in the history of the world.

American writer David Quammen has likened the colonial American policies and practices toward Native Americans with those of Australia toward its aboriginal populations, calling them "brutal, hypocritical, opportunistic, and even genocidal in the fullest sense of the word."

United States of America
Authors such as the Holocaust expert David Cesarani have argued that the government and policies of the United States of America against certain indigenous peoples in furtherance of Manifest destiny constituted genocide. Cesarani states that "in terms of the sheer numbers killed, the Native American Genocide exceeds that of the Holocaust".


Of course, like many in here ... by posting that the Jews really don't hold the patent on genocide, I'm sure some idiot will again call me anti-Semitic. To save time, I would direct any such individual to the post in Message 21 of this thread by Looking646...
While I disagree with the idea of criticizing a people based on racial stereotypes, I find the examples of people who criticize the policies of the state of Israel being called "antisemitic" out of bounds as well. I hope this gets to the heart of the OP's question. When debate about Israel and the Middle East heats up, quite often people who are opposed to Israeli policies are told they are being antisemitic in an attempt to discredit them and to shut them up. This is not a valid line of argument, because if the debate is about policy decisions or actions, then it is inherently not about the traits or characteristics of Jews as a people.


I would also point out the excellent statement made by late™ in Message 26 ...
One has only to look at the many (interconnected) right wing Zionist PACs operating as NPO/NGOs (AIPAC, MEMRI, CAMERA, MERIT, PMW, the list is huge), to see that this sensitivity is being exploited to obfuscate the reporting on Israeli criminal acts of state. Western media is complicit in this PR/propaganda campaign, not to mention the Washington lobbies of these organizations, the neoconservative Christian-right zionists, and the people who stand to make the huge profits out of the whole mess, the corporate lobby (who also "made a killing" at the expense of Germany's Jews).

As far as the west is concerned, the IDF is operating in a media vacuum with tacit approval.

One must understand that the worst actions of the state of Israel are thought by many to be against the Jewish religions, and that the Palestinians are actually Semite people too. To accuse those who speak out on the oppression, atrocities, and crimes against humanity of the state of Israel is NOT Anti-Semitic, ...in actuality, the things that the IDF are doing to Palestine ARE Anti-Semitic.

I do not support Anti-Semitic anything.


But then he was disrespectfully heckled by a poster in Message 28 ...
late, you crack me up.

Thought by many? Please! That is just high-larious.

Thought by you and seven other people on these forms is hardly many. Thought by a couple of extremist rabbis? Stoppit. Yer killin me.

To that, late™ respectfully replied in Message 29 ...
Jews Against Zionism: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

Neturei Karta: http://www.nkusa.org/

Jews Not Zionists: http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

Not In My Name: http://www.nimn.org/

European Jews for a Just Peace: http://www.ejjp.org/

Jewish Voice For Peace: http://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/

Jews for Justice for Palestinians: http://www.jfjfp.org/

Jews For A Just Peace, NC: http://www.jfajpnc.org/

Bat Shalom: http://www.batshalom.org/

Courage To Refuse: http://www.seruv.org.il/defaulteng.asp

The Israeli Committee Against House Demolitions: http://www.icahd.org/eng/

Rabbis For Human Rights: http://www.rhr.israel.net/

Jewish Peace Fellowship: http://www.jewishpeacefellowship.org/

Do you see these Israeli views on "Fox"?

Some objective Israeli journalists speaking out about the war, even Israel has a more balanced media than the US.
Those are examples I too have often used in order to point out that speaking against Israeli policy would make many Israelis also "anti-Semitic" if that's what makes me "anti-Semitic".


The Jews do not have an exclusive right to being the only people persecuted. To play this card is a slap to all other peoples who have died.
Well put.
 whiskeypapa
Joined: 5/19/2008
Msg: 38
Jews....sacred cows ??
Posted: 6/16/2012 5:17:10 AM
The sacred cows are going to dump all over you and this thread will vanish into the "night and fog"as Anna's has so recently gone.
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Jews....sacred cows ??