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Joined: 1/1/2005
Msg: 11
China and TaiwanPage 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
I think we should mind our own business, best policy to avoid war.
Joined: 6/6/2004
Msg: 12
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China and Taiwan
Posted: 3/14/2005 2:35:17 PM
Name one.

The USSR doesn't count; they stole it.

China gave it to Pakistan though.
Joined: 6/6/2004
Msg: 13
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China and Taiwan
Posted: 3/15/2005 10:50:56 AM

these ideas are so complicated that I would have to spend an eternity making them coherent

Oh I agree with you there.

Anyhow as for what in particular Taiwan should get.... I'd say at least two ballistic missile submarines, and a few dozen TBMs with MIRV warheads. Then the ChiCom's wouldn't do spit.
Joined: 6/3/2004
Msg: 15
China and Taiwan
Posted: 3/15/2005 4:35:06 PM
12.6 percent increase in the country's defense budget for 2005.

That's quite the Whopper, not necessary to take over Taiwan, but I believe its more Saber-rattling that anything that directly affects a War Machine to seize Taiwan. They already have enough Infantry to take the place in a massive Raid virtually overnight as is. But that's all debatable given the fact the U.S. already has 1 or more Aircraft Carriers in the Area.

I doubt very much China would invade Taiwan. The PR Mess would be prohibitive, however many countries depend on their massive Demands on Goods, Supplies & Services, so the Noise would likely be somewhat muffled.

In the end I doubt the U.S. will actually get into any War with China. From an Economic perspective, it could be devastating, since most Nations are also fed up with the U.S. insisting they tow their line.

That being said, I think it would nevertheless be the correct thing for the U.S. at least to try to intervene on behalf of Taiwan in an Effort to bluff China back.
Joined: 8/20/2004
Msg: 17
China and Taiwan
Posted: 3/15/2005 9:47:25 PM
Is everyone in agreement? China shouldn't invade. And watchman started it. Score one for the conservatives.
And I actually nodded in agreement with kadmus. Would kiss my lovely little a$$ goodbye.
Can I interject a little insight here. When it comes to our own soil, liberals and conservatives will unite with canadians (have to get them in here) to protect the homeland. I don't think any liberals are against that. Well, maybe some.
Joined: 12/29/2004
Msg: 18
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China and Taiwan
Posted: 3/16/2005 2:12:05 AM
Just a slightly different take...

China is sabre rattling and doesn't want to be in a position to have to invade or even impose their rule on Taiwan. They have had a pretty good 'test case' in Hong Kong, for this type of thing and are finding it unmanageable.

The problem isn't invasion, as far as I see it, but the endgame afterwards. Hong Kong, in a peaceful takeover, has become a lightning rod for political fighting against Chinese communism and open dissent. The more this happens (and in the world of instant communications, they can't use their heavy hands on it, as they'd be pilloried diplomatically) they more they risk their own homeland citizens realizing they can do the same.

No, they want Taiwan to shut up and keep the status quo, at least for now. Taiwan's government forced the Chinese to do/say something, which they did (wrong, but it's for show, I believe). The risk of post invasion management of the country is too great to go in.

At least some countries worry about what happens AFTER they invade a country...
Joined: 7/22/2006
Msg: 19
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China and Taiwan
Posted: 7/25/2006 9:13:58 PM
I've been living in Taiwan for 5 years as an English teacher. China's military would stomp us. The problem is that China's biggest customer is the US. US sells up dump loads of arms every year. Now if Taiwan would stop rocking the boat, they could see that things aren't that bad the way things are now. We have democracy, lots of money comes across that straight and into the Taiwan economy with most of the factories being owned by taiwanese.

It's the safest, other than china's rockets aimed at us, place I've ever been. I think now that China is making so much progress, Taiwan won't be as much of a priority. I just hope Taiwanese polititions could find an approach to getting WTO recognition wothout pissing China off so bad.
Joined: 7/11/2006
Msg: 20
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China and Taiwan
Posted: 8/16/2006 8:55:33 AM
China is a peaceful country,it is the time for China to getting strong and Olympic games will cooming.So in these years China will not attact Taiwain,because if China attact that will be no benifit for China.If Taiwain won't try to independence or try to attact China.the Chinese will not attact them,because Taiwannes and Chinese have the same blood.
Joined: 8/9/2006
Msg: 21
China and Taiwan
Posted: 9/1/2006 11:15:37 PM
Taiwan is a small place compared to the super power of china. USA cannot help Taiwan defend itslef bec of its economic problem and North Korea.

2008 and the Beijing boycott is the only hope to curb the dictatorship of beijing. Its human rights violations show its true intent.

Latest News

* China: Chen Guangcheng is prisoner of conscience
Aug 24, 2006
* China: New Amnesty International Report Details Role of Yahoo!, Microsoft and Google in Limiting Freedom of Expression
Jul 20, 2006
* China: Secretive Chinese Arms Exports Activities Stoking Conflict, Repression, New Amnesty International Report Finds
Jun 10, 2006
* China: Justice denied for those disabled in 1989 Tiananmen crackdown
Jun 2, 2006
* China: Amnesty International USA Challenges Yahoo Management at Annual Meeting
May 25, 2006
* China: Resource for journalists -- memorandum on 'Re-education through Labour'
May 12, 2006
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 22
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China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/1/2007 5:32:11 PM
Free Taiwan and Tibet!!!!!!!
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 23
China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/2/2007 10:04:26 AM
Taiwan is Free. The PRC is making an illegal claim.
the current status very beneficial...
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 25
China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/2/2007 12:09:31 PM

Always has been Chinese and always will be.

Bull....China gave up ALL claims on Taiwan to the Japanese...ooohhh...a long time ago...
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 26
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China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/2/2007 9:09:50 PM
I boycott products made in China whenever possible but will not avoid buying something made in Taiwan, a democratic and free society that deserves our support.

I recently had the choice of buying a USB drive made in China or one made in Taiwan. The Taiwanese one was the one I bought, out of solidarity for a fellow democratic nation. Democracy should be supported, and we must take a stand against nations like China who deny people basic human rights.
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 27
China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/3/2007 10:28:13 AM

China belongs to Taiwan. China was a rebellious child who separated from its mother, Taiwan. Now China turns the other way around to claim Taiwan as its property to a child? Go read some Chinese history.

 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 29
China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/6/2007 9:05:39 PM

As I say, realistically, not much could be done. I think China knows this.............they are also very patient. I think they (the Chinese) may not even have to fire a shot to re-take Taiwan, as I think they would be willing to use the system that they implemented when the British gave up Hong Kong to China, make it a "special administrative division" whereby for at least 50 years, hard-core communist rule would not be implemented on the colony.

However, China still requires the west, and not just the USA.
A little something from the past: Treaty of Shimonoseki, in which China ceded its sovereignty over Taiwan in perpetuity.

Then the Japanese came...and they too were stripped of Taiwan, which was never "theirs" in the first place.

Treaties...are funny things, as they are recognized by the China must tread carefully.
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 30
China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/6/2007 11:02:58 PM
Treaty of Shimonoseki

Signed at Shimonoseki 17 April 1895
Entered into Force 8 May 1895 by the exchange of the intruments of ratification at Chefoo

Article 2

China cedes to Japan in perpetuity and full sovereignty the following territories, together with all fortifications, arsenals, and public property thereon:—

(a) The southern portion of the province of Fêngtien within the following boundaries [1]:

The line of demarcation begins at the mouth of the River Yalu and ascends that stream to the mouth of the River An-ping, from thence the line runs to Fêng-huang, from thence to Hai-cheng, from thence to Ying-kow, forming a line which describes the southern portion of the territory. The places above named are included in the ceded territory. When the line reaches the River Liao at Ying-kow, it follows the course of the stream to its mouth, where it terminates. The mid-channel of the River Liao shall be taken as the line of demarcation.

This cession also includes all islands appertaining or belonging to the province of Fêngtien situated in the eastern portion of the Bay of Liao-tung and the northern portion of the Yellow Sea.

(b) The island of Formosa, together with all islands appertaining or belonging to the said island of Formosa.

(c) The Pescadores Group, that is to say, all islands lying between the 119th and 120th degrees of longitude east of Greenwich and the 23rd and 24th degrees of north latitude.

What part of this is "vague" to you?

...Who did the Japanese lose Taiwan to....?
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 33
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China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/7/2007 1:35:55 PM
Not all dollar stores have 100% Made in China. I like "Family Dollar" because they have beautiful US-made greeting cards for a very reasonable price. I get all of my greeting cards from there, including my Christmas cards, which are also made in the USA. I have bought other US made items there as well. I remember buying a couple of boxes of US-made Christmas ornaments. I gave one box to a friend for Christmas and kept one for myself.

Seriously, I looked at Christmas cards at CVS and they were made in China. Hooray for Family Dollar for supporting American workers by using a Chicago-based printer that proudly makes their cards in the USA. Family Dollar also sells plastic boxes and containers that are American-made, and I bought several when I needed some.

If you take the time to look, you can help bring down the Made in China juggernaut by supporting companies that make products in the USA or other democratic nations, including Taiwan.
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 34
China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/7/2007 6:01:42 PM

no, nothing vague, but china made very CLEAR: it would not recognize any treaties in that period of era!!!

proof? new china got rid of all of concessions in mainland even when it barely had a modern military in 1949. it will keep her words on the rest.

China rewrites history to suit that your position?
No country can "arbitrarily" renege on a Treaty. China is still bound whether she likes it or not in International courts. { be honest...if China wanted Taiwan would be a done deal. Internationally, is would be a very bad move. Japan has a stronger claim than China. Yet makes none...why?

You are aware of take a look at the Japanese Terms of Surrender ...

If you take the time to look, you can help bring down the Made in China juggernaut by supporting companies that make products in the USA or other democratic nations, including Taiwan.

Much of what is made in China, is made by Taiwanese companies.
Joined: 10/16/2006
Msg: 35
China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/8/2007 11:57:52 PM

ipfreak said:
maybe you should say that Scotland, northern Ireland never was a part of uk in first place!!!!

No seriously...pull the other one it has bells on it.

News Flash. Scotland and Northern Ireland were never a part of the United Kingdom in the first place until captured as part of wars of aggression hundreds of years ago.

Now, centuries later, for the first time in its history, Northern Ireland is virtually free of English soldiers and has a coalition parliament.

Scotland is making serious rumblings towards independance...

Self-determination is a serious international issue and will continue to be one in this time of economic hegemony but the new wars will be more likely on the stock exchange floor in the first and second world.

ktodd1969 said:
The Chinese are experts at deception. Sun Tzu was a master at this, and the Chinese have not forgotten that fact. They want us to THINK they are benign and not a threat. They want us to THINK they don't want to be the next superpower. China is very wise, and very patient. Time is on their side. I trust them as far as I can throw them. Once they have us fooled into thinking they cannot be a potential future adversary, then they have already won half of the battle. Americans should be ashamed, our government should be ashamed, for doing business with a nation with one of the most dismal human rights records in history. Almost everything we buy now is made in communist China. There are many items that are only made there and no where else, so there is no alternative for those of us who only want to "buy American".............

OMFG! Are you serious with this sh*t??? I haven't seen racist-stereotypical dreck like this since I last picked up a pulp novel from the 30's talking about Fu-Manchu and the "perils of the sinister Yellow Devils"...

Are you going to do the flapping dickie joke now?

What's more, anyone who is a Christian who believes in the Bible knows what will happen in the end times. The U.S. and the West (or at least what is left of it) will be met by multiple adversaries in the true "mother of all battles"- Armageddon.

Who let the kooks out WHO - WHO - WHO?
Joined: 9/4/2005
Msg: 36
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China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/9/2007 8:45:17 AM
Coates is right--the US government should go after and punish these Asian-"Americans" who are exploiting workers here and abroad.

Taiwanese companies that make things in China are hurting their own cause for freedom and democracy in Taiwan. Buying something made in TAIWAN supports those who are keeping the jobs in a democratic nation, not the Communist hellhole that China has become.

It would be great to see China become a democracy and a free country--may the souls of those faithful Chinese who lost their lives at Tiananmen Square so many years ago rest in peace--and I hope that they didn't die in vain--that their dream of a better China can happen. It's sad to see these people being exploited, and persecuted so much. People are executed over there arbitrarily, and that is tragic.
 Politically INCORRECT
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 37
China and Taiwan
Posted: 11/24/2007 10:19:09 AM

chances are the World has learned not much from history and any time a giant power gets aggressive it would take time until they would really start doing something...

LOL....follow the $$$$ that's the game.
Technically, Taiwan is still "occupied" by the allied forces.

Japanese Instrument of Surrender

"The authority of the Emperor and the Japanese Government to rule the State shall be subject to the Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers, who will take such steps as he deems proper to effectuate these terms of surrender".

Who was the Supreme Commander?

Accepted at Tokyo BAY, Japan at 0908 on the SECOND day of SEPTEMBER, 1945, for the United States, Republic of China, United Kingdom and the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, and in the interests of the other United Nations at war with Japan.

Douglas MacArthur
Supreme Commander for the Allied Powers

Taiwan is Free...but the PRC wants "rewrite" history...
 Soul Union
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 39
China and Taiwan
Posted: 7/9/2008 6:29:37 PM
Some enterprising soul should give the Taiwanese military the ability to build nuclear weapons. > lycurgus

Like America, for example? They have enough weapons to blow the world up many times over, not to mention their space capabilities and their germ warfare technology.

Evaporating untold numbers of men, women and children in Nagasaki and Hiroshima back in 1945 was kids' stuff compared to what's available today.

~ Peter
Joined: 7/11/2007
Msg: 40
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China and Taiwan
Posted: 7/9/2008 7:07:08 PM
If China wants to take Taiwan we cant do a thing about it.

China can crash our economy without firing a shot. Pick up anything in your house, anything, it says made in china on it. China makes our consumer goods, they are our banker loaning us billons for our wars, and they hold so many dollars that if they started selling them on mass in the world currency market they could crash the dollar.

So if they take Taiwan we will yell and scream and cry, but we won’t fire a shot.

Nor should we.
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 41
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China and Taiwan
Posted: 8/10/2008 9:19:42 PM
Taiwan or aTibet have never been indepenfent!!!!!
Wangshington D.C Free!!
NY free!!!!
California free!!!
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