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 MX220
Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 61
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?Page 2 of 25    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)

Tax cuts for the wealthy and multinational companies have broken the backs of many of the social programs designed to help the working poor.


Contrary to your belief, government and social programs don't creat jobs for the working poor. The working poor benefit when government gets out of the way of those doing the actual hiring and paying of salaries>>>Business owners... so they can expand and hire more people. Getting out of the way can mean a lot of things such as less constraints, rules and regulations...and yes, lower taxes.


Outsourcing is costing us jobs and companies can no longer compete against cheap overseas labor.


You're absolutely right!!! And I wish like heck we could get those jobs back here. The reason that companies in the US can't compete with overseas labor is labor unions in the US. And who are the biggest supporters of labor unions? The democrats. Even Theresa Heinz Kerry's company uses overseas labor.


more children live in poverty


First, what is the poverty level? Second, what is your source on this?
________________________________________________
The economy is not suffering as badly as most of you want so desperately to believe. What I see in reading this thread is a hatred for Bush rooted so deeply that some of you just want the economy and the country to suffer.

Not one person had a rebuttle for my first post in this thread.
 MX220
Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 62
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 5/6/2007 11:30:12 AM
Charles, you missed the point. Businesses go overseas to save money - usually on taxes and labor. More of them would stay here if it were more economical. They need more 'incentive' to produce work here and keep more money here in our own economy. That's my point.

Now I'm not suggesting that we get rid of labor unions but the fact is that union labor generally costs more than non union labor. In the 20s and 30s when workers had very few rights the unions were a great thing. Today there are union workers in construction, assembly lines etc earning $20 to $30/hour or more. If a company can pay someone half that or less in a country where taxes and the cost of living is much lower they'll do it. I have a friend who works for a well known lawn mower company in the US. He said they send all of their engine parts to Mexico, have them assembled there, then returned. It saves them a whopping $10 a lawn mower!! Now that isn't much and I...... and I'm sure you too would be willing to pay that extra $10 for a new mower if it meant keeping the work here. But when they make thousands of lawn mowers it's a big savings for them.

Regarding your comment on ridding of the unions and going back to working for a dollar a day. Charles, Charles.....we both know that no one is going to work for that kind of pay here...union or not.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 63
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 5/6/2007 12:10:40 PM

Charles, you missed the point. Businesses go overseas to save money - usually on taxes and labor. More of them would stay here if it were more economical. They need more 'incentive' to produce work here and keep more money here in our own economy. That's my point.

Any serious study on corporate welfare has found it to be a miserable failure. The companies that move in to take advantage of it in the end employee to few people to pay for their "welfare" with the increase in personal income tax. So it ends up being a subsidy that costs more to supply than will ever be gainned from it.

The $10 a mow doesn't sound like much and I doubt many would mind paying that extra to keep jobs in their own country, but the reality is that alot of retail mark-up is to the tune of 400% so that extra $10 on the manufacturing side translates into atleast an extra $40........ Two near identical mowers side by side one $40 more but assembled in your own backyard and guess which one will still out sell the other.

Any company will pay as little as it can get away with to its employees. Canada has a decent example of this. Alberta is again in a boom cycle, so jobs are plentiful and employees worth keeping are enticed with higher wages and better benefits. I've heard that Timmies pays over $15/hr(and they are still profitable and charge the same prices for products), now here because they can fill those same jobs at minimum wage they do ...... this is extra profit for the franchisee. WalMart even made the news having to fly in Mexicans to work at their stores in Alberta because no one there would take those jobs for what they offer. So cut the taxes for business and watch your own income tax go up, while big business flies in Mexicans and Jamaicans to work for them on US soil because the employers still won't be willing to pay a decent living wage unless they have no other choice.
 MX220
Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 64
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 5/7/2007 5:00:00 PM
MrBad, I was referring to skilled labor and not the IT industry. Unfortunately it's a fact that production costs less overseas due to labor and taxes. And union work is usually skilled labor such as construction, truck driving, maintenance, assembly etc

You may well have done better when Clinton was in. I was doing well when Clinton was in and I've done well since Bush has been in. But my success is not determined by who's in the white house. It has nothing to do with either of them. My success is dertermined by me. By what you wrote I'm betting you've got a good education behind you...not to mention several years of experience....both of which look good on your resume. I can understand your frustrations over losing your job to someone overseas. But is Clinton to blame for the jobs that got sent overseas during his administration?

The economy is not bad as many of you want to believe.
 msquared
Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 68
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 5/8/2007 11:27:51 AM

We had the recession which started under Clinton


The recession started in 2001. Clinton was no longer the president at that time.
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 70
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 5/8/2007 3:39:42 PM
A stock market driven by the overseas profits of Corporations, and a devalued dollar really doesnt seem like a solid market, to me.

I wonder how the stockmarket helps Joe and Jill working stiff? Trickle Down?

Foreclosers here just exceded 1988.....Reagan years. I remember how good those were.

My new home lost 1/2 its value.





 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 73
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 5/9/2007 12:15:00 AM


A stock market driven by the overseas profits of Corporations, and a devalued dollar really doesnt seem like a solid market, to me.

I wonder how the stockmarket helps Joe and Jill working stiff? Trickle Down?

Foreclosers here just exceded 1988.....Reagan years. I remember how good those were.

My new home lost 1/2 its value.


This is on point. The fact of the matter is if you only care about the stock market then you will say the economy is doing well. This is hardly a way to gauge whats going on in the average household however. The common working person is doing far worse than they did in years previous. It is more difficult than it has been in some time to find a job that pays well. On top of this add the HUGE numbers of people without insurance and job security has become a myth from those fairy tale books. People changing jobs faster than some people change their socks. Many of the "higher paying" jobs have gone offshore to countries where these mega-corporations can get VERY cheap labor and bypass labor laws and often human rights regulations. Looks like the Capitalists are having a field day at the common mans expense once again.

Trickle down does not exist. It is more likely that the rich will save their money then to take risks with it right now. Even they know if they admit it or not they are acting like things are not so rosy. (they are investing in traditionally secure risk free, investments that people use in bad times and depression/recessions) The uncertainty of oil, the war in Iraq and the fear (even if they are totally based on overblown hype) of terrorism in the future means that it is far more prudent for someone with some wealth to invest it in more secure ways than opening businesses and hiring people to do things.

The housing market is going down rapidly and the common middle class folk only have property as their investment. Sad thing is they are loosing their asses! USA will look like a third world country in the not too distant future I am afraid. There will be a small group of ultra wealthy and the rest will live in squalor at the rate we are going now. No war is going to fix that. (war only really benefits the ultra-wealthy these days because you cant even go work in the "bomb" factories any more to make a living. They send most everything except the highest security stuff over seas.

Bush's tax cut for the rich has not produced much for the lower classes because trickle down economics works as good as a rusty gun with cement stuffed in the barrel. It looks good on paper, it may even trick a few people into thinking its a good idea but, in the end its a crock of shite.

The only way these people are staying in power is because they are playing on peoples fears and racism on the immigration issue. They are attempting to shift the blame from their shoulders to the "Mexicans."(there are many democrats guilty of this too BTW) I am sorry but, the Mexicans did not give the big corporations corporate welfare to move their operations off shore. They generally are doing jobs most Americans don't want to do but, the power of these wedge issues is incredible.

People who have no business voting for scumbags who would take their tax money and give it to a company to take jobs away from them to a place where they can mistreat another group of people and then lie and blame it on a poor immigrant who is trying to make a better life for their family in an honorable way is SICK! Sad thing is people sell themselves and this country down the toilet over stuff like immigration and gay marriage! WAKE UP !

To summarize Bush is one of the worst presidents this country has seen since Grant, Nixon and Reagan. He will be added to the history book as another Lame duck who thinks he laid the golden egg.


 Si_or_No
Joined: 5/23/2006
Msg: 74
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 5/10/2007 11:03:44 AM
"my new home lost 1/2 its value" ^^^^^^^^

Bob .. your home wasn't WORTH that much in the first place ... the over inflated housing market is just as much a bubble as the Dot.Com era was ... the ironic thing about the housing market is the coming crash will be foretold in ways other than massive foreclosure rates .. (here in Miami .. it's currently at 40,000 a month and CLIMBING ..) the poor **stards who went into hock to afford that new home are now reaping one of lifes cruelest jokes .. property taxes ..

Here in Miami .. homeowners are being hit with tax bills for up to $10,000 dollars and MORE ... mind you .. these are people who scrimped and saved for years for a down payment which was LESS than that ...

Imagine the shock these people are feeling ...

I doubt if they care much about the stock market hitting 14,ooo ..
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 76
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 5/10/2007 2:04:35 PM
Bob .. your home wasn't WORTH that much in the first place ... the over inflated housing market is just as much a bubble as the Dot.Com era was ... the ironic thing about the housing market is the coming crash will be foretold in ways other than massive foreclosure rates .. (here in Miami .. it's currently at 40,000 a month and CLIMBING ..)
_________________________

You know about the Resultion Trust Corp (sic) and the housing market of the 80's?

OR Neil Bush stealing 1 billion $$ with Silverado Savings and Loan.

You are aware that 1/2 of Tuscon Arz and the Front range of Colo were in forecloser. Owned by RST in th 80's.

It was Not a bubble... theft.
 single1965
Joined: 10/13/2005
Msg: 77
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 5/12/2007 4:53:46 PM
Maybe if you live in Beverly Hills you might think the economy is doing good,but with everything going up in price most americans are struggling (not unless your an oil company or have invested in oil) Bush needs to get out of office PERIOD!!!
 wodehousefan2
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 82
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 9/27/2007 11:44:11 PM
Actually, most are not driving nice cars, and most are living in run down apartments not nice houses. There are more homeless than before. Even those who had nice houses a year ago are losing them this year. There is a record number of defaults, bank failures, credit union failures, record low new home sales, record low new home sale prices, numerous stock price stumbles, our currency has been devalued, it buys less overseas, fewer people abroad want to buy our goods, record numbers of schools are closing for lack of funds, todays' American college grads can't compete with Japanes/Korean high schoolers grade/job prep wise. Our infra-structure is shot, bridges collapse, roads sink into holes, etc, because no one has money to spend on repairs/maintenence. We STILL have not repaired the storm damaged coastal areas, and Dumbya has STILL not captured/killed Bin Laden. heck; he can't even knock Al Jazeera off the air. Shrubby has NOT done a good job, and you will never convince even his own Mother that he has. SHE is the one who first started calling him Dumbya...and she should know.
 wodehousefan2
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 83
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 9/27/2007 11:45:18 PM
The deficit is four TRILLION.
 wodehousefan2
Joined: 9/12/2007
Msg: 85
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 9/28/2007 6:58:59 AM
Various things-Social security owed, Bonds outstanding, etc-are NOT figured into the 500 billion figure, yet are debts...like credit card charges; things we spent already but have yet to pay off, and that is in the trillions, and is a deficit because it is more than we have coming in. Bush is-in effect-bouncing checks; which is what makes our money worth less...because he also prints up more paper money than we have gold/silver to back. That is part of the deficit, too, but is not figured in. Accounting tricks used to save political face do not fool our creditors abroad.
 gizmosellschickens
Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 86
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 9/29/2007 3:23:54 PM
Back to the 1970s inflation-is possible with the liqiud credit machine running out of juice.

Alan Greenspan, the former chairman of the Federal Reserve, has said that the "inflation tranquility" experienced over the past two decades could not be expected to continue.

Mr Greenspan, who often faced criticism for cutting rates too quickly during his tenure at the Fed in response to signs of economic weakness, told the BBC: "I'm reasonably confident that the inflation tranquility that we have experienced throughout the world actually for the last 20 years is not something we can hope to readily replicate as we move into the future."

He said that while the danger of recession was "still less than 50/50", it was "not as "optimistic as one would like".

Mr Greenspan also said that the world's major economies needed to continue their efforts to "absorb" financial shocks, even if they are not able to anticipate them.

In the US or UK be prepared and stock up on gold, and cash interest will be going up in the longer term, unless we pull a cooperfield and increase productivity growth rate above 2% a year.
 idahosun
Joined: 4/26/2006
Msg: 87
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 9/29/2007 7:57:23 PM
The last I heard 25% of our national debt is now owed to China and yet we continue to import, import, import their poisonous (literally) goods and outsource, outsource, outsource. Geezuz people, if our economy survives this idiot and his $10 billion expense per month on the "war" which only enriches his buddies at Hallyburton, et al, we are going to be one lucky group. Unfortunately as weak as the dollar is, I don't think we have a chance, so stock up, lock up and look out! And as to those nice cars and houses, yeah, guess you haven't heard about all the repossesssions from one end of the country to the other. Better get your head out of _________ and start reading and watching some talking head shows.
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 91
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 9/30/2007 3:36:51 PM
I don't have all the numbers..but..

10 years ago I was bartending (border town in Canada) I made a lot of american tips, I went to the bank and got 36 cents on every american dollar..it was great.

Last week my employer told us that the exchange at our business for american was 90 cents on the Canadian dollar.

10 years ago I paid 43 cent a litre for gas, yesterday I paid 96 cents, and that's come dowm from a month ago.

10 years ago I made 40,000 a year, last year I made 26,000

30 years ago my grandmother bought a 4 bedroom house in a seaside city on the BC coast for $25,000, 15 years ago my brother bought it from her for $75,000, last year he sold it for $289,000. I can no longer get a mortgage on my pay (which hasn't increased in my field in over ten years) unless I get a 30 year or longer mortgage.

10 years ago I could feed a family of three on $250 a month, very well. This year it costs me over $400 to feed myself and one young child properly. And I've given up buying roasts.

Mr. Harpers changes to daycare subsidy has basically made it impossible for me to work full time as a single mother. I am managing but have taken a large decrease in take home pay.

That's what I know...that's what I live. It isn't better...and I refuse to have a credit card. Anyone have any idea how difficult it is to not have a credit card? I can't even get a Blockbusters Video.. yet I pay all my bills on time. Stupid.

So there is no way the economy is better...no. And that's here in Canada. I've been to the states lately, it ain't pretty. The degradation of neighborhoods in the cities, the forclosure of farms and industry? The schools closing... The only thing you are right on is all the new cars...it's just wierd.
 Ravenstar66
Joined: 8/27/2007
Msg: 92
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 9/30/2007 3:37:26 PM
I don't have all the numbers..but..

10 years ago I was bartending (border town in Canada) I made a lot of american tips, I went to the bank and got 36 cents on every american dollar..it was great.

Last week my employer told us that the exchange at our business for american was 90 cents on the Canadian dollar.

10 years ago I paid 43 cent a litre for gas, yesterday I paid 96 cents, and that's come dowm from a month ago.

10 years ago I made 40,000 a year, last year I made 26,000

30 years ago my grandmother bought a 4 bedroom house in a seaside city on the BC coast for $25,000, 15 years ago my brother bought it from her for $75,000, last year he sold it for $289,000. I can no longer get a mortgage on my pay (which hasn't increased in my field in over ten years) unless I get a 30 year or longer mortgage.

10 years ago I could feed a family of three on $250 a month, very well. This year it costs me over $400 to feed myself and one young child properly. And I've given up buying roasts.

Mr. Harpers changes to daycare subsidy has basically made it impossible for me to work full time as a single mother. I am managing but have taken a large decrease in take home pay.

That's what I know...that's what I live. It isn't better...and I refuse to have a credit card. Anyone have any idea how difficult it is to not have a credit card? I can't even get a Blockbusters Video.. yet I pay all my bills on time. Stupid.

So there is no way the economy is better...no. And that's here in Canada. I've been to the states lately, it ain't pretty. The degradation of neighborhoods in the cities, the forclosure of farms and industry? The schools closing... The only thing you are right on is all the new cars...it's just wierd.
 georgiabulldogfan
Joined: 9/22/2007
Msg: 93
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 10/1/2007 12:44:35 AM
The other day I was with a friend at a fancy resturant, the place was jammed pack with people. We was discussing the lack of jobs and poor economy over a nice dinner. After we ate the bill was bout 50 bucks for 2 people. Both of us didn't have much money on us so we left a modest tip of 10 bucks and then to a for a drive in my new mercedes wondering how much longer this screwed up economy will hold up. When I got home I turned on my plasma 1080 sony 42"tv and watched a few movies on pay per view. All I could think about was how I was going to make it the next day on a fixed income. So I had to call some of my friends up on a new cell phone I got at a decent price of 350 bucks. It is a 2 year contract at 89 bucks a month. Unlimited texts, and outgoing calls. Yes, yes its hard to live in the poor, sluggish economy. I have cut corners here and there to save on expenses. Like this past summer instead of changing out my inground pool filter ever 2 weeks, i changed it out once a month. It's like feeling what it was like back in the depression days. I personaly knows what it feels like. The other day I ran out of food at my condo so I called my mom up and she came over with a nice cooked meal. BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT! SO i know what its like to be without food.

WAKE UP EVERYONE WE ARE ON A BRINK OF A DEPRESSION!
 georgiabulldogfan
Joined: 9/22/2007
Msg: 95
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 10/1/2007 1:14:50 AM
Yep but americans keep on ****en bout jobs and lack of money but at the same time can afford laptops and cell phones. We **** bout gas prices being so much but where in the hell did that 30 dollars come from so you can put gas in your car. We **** bout 1 out of 100 homes getting forclosured while kids in a third world country has to live in a mud house and eat rice puddin till he pukes. We **** bout health care being so much but we continue to fill up our gas guzzlers and take a trip to the doctor to get better while kids in cambodia gets their legs blowm off by some land mine that been left over from ww2. think bout it man we got it made here in the USA!
 georgiabulldogfan
Joined: 9/22/2007
Msg: 97
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 10/1/2007 1:25:24 AM
Until I see the day where my job requires me using a shovel at a national park or help homeless people build a dam in the state of georgia I'm not going to cry bout jobs, money, cost of living and how George Bush screwed us. I think alot of people need to wake up and be glad we're not advertise on japan's tvs "for a dollar a day you can feed an ex labor union gm employee who lost his job".
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 99
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 10/1/2007 7:06:11 AM


Until I see the day where my job requires me using a shovel at a national park or help homeless people build a dam in the state of georgia I'm not going to cry bout jobs, money, cost of living and how George Bush screwed us. I think alot of people need to wake up and be glad we're not advertise on japan's tvs "for a dollar a day you can feed an ex labor union gm employee who lost his job".


WOW!! That is about the same as a person telling someone who had to live through the horrors of WWII in Germany That, until you live through what happened in Cambodia with pol pot I don't want to hear about it! It is the most pathetic excuse for a poor situation the economy is in I have ever heard. Sounds like someone is feeling guilty for being part of the problem to me.

The economy is on slippery ground for sure. Even the most conservative economists are quite concerned. While much of this is not directly related to Mr. Bush.

Such as the loan problems in real estate. There also exists many things that are causing issues such as the war that are directly related to his policy. Bush screwed us in many ways most of which involve damage to our rights (patriot act) getting us involved in Iraq (which is costing us insane amounts of money), and making things very shaky as far as foreign relations go due to torture, and reneging on several treaties that could destabilize world affairs for some time to come, and other scandal involving his policies put through.) This is more where bush screwed us.

It is kind of difficult to pin all the problems of the economy directly to Bush's Actions. One could say however that he has taken few if any actions to correct it. What has been happening is denial of it existing and ignoring it. Which does come back to him and will later as well.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 100
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 10/1/2007 9:30:42 AM
"Just about all of us are driving nice cars"

>>>true, the American standard of living is high compared to other countries where reliable phone service doesn't exist...but, DRIVNG a car, and PAYING for it in CASH are two very different things. If you read today's paper, you may have noticed a new economic problem on the horizon...college students who got private loans have watched their rates skyrocket. The prediction is this could take on the proportions of the mortgage bubble, which brings us to your next point about living in expensive houses.

The prez isn't doing his part to keep the economy intact, no. It could be argued the legislative branch controls the economy, but I think I posted in here a while ago about how the global economy has really taken away from the American government much of its power over its own economy. Of course, if the government decides to control the influence of the GE via tariffs, etc, and decides pulling out of the Middle East will help oil flow....
 FriendofDog
Joined: 1/22/2005
Msg: 102
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 10/1/2007 8:28:20 PM
wow so our sons are sports-loving alcoholic womanizers and our daughters are materialistic whores, wow good work GWB for turning our sons in daughters into commercial commodities rather then self-thinking individuals. At least we all have nice shiny cars!

Free thought is for fools!
 kabiosile
Joined: 11/3/2005
Msg: 103
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If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 10/1/2007 11:16:38 PM


wow so our sons are sports-loving alcoholic womanizers and our daughters are materialistic whores, wow good work GWB for turning our sons in daughters into commercial commodities rather then self-thinking individuals. At least we all have nice shiny cars!

Free thought is for fools!



SO true but, most people in here will probably think you are crazy. I agree 100% priorities in the USA and most of the western world are ass backwards.

Hurray for us.

Not to mention that most of the wealth this country has had is off the backs of slaves, the "third world" and anyone else our government could figure out how to dominate or enslave their own people so we can get low prices. All the while supporting dictators and playing war games every so often to make the stock market swell up and take money out of the common mans pocket to fill the greedy military industrial complex's pockets.

All of this goes in one ear and out the other of the average north american sadly.
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