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 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 207
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?Page 5 of 25    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25)

If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?


????

Are you serious?

You can't possibly be serious...

Ever seen the price of gold lately?

WOW...
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 212
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/29/2008 1:04:19 PM

Interestingly enough the value of gold has not changed - it is only the dollars it is purchased in that have become worth less.


In reality, gold (well, all precious metals actually) are being hedged (short)... so, you are partly correct. The true price of gold is being manipulated. It should be MUCH higher than it is.

But, inflation IS much of the problem.

The US Dollar is worth maybe a penny now.

Fractional banking is 1 reason.
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 213
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/29/2008 3:46:01 PM
Some believe that Carter drove us into a recession that took Reagan a few years of massive cuts to get out of.

__________

What kind of cuts? Tax or Spending?
You share the thinking of these "some"?
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 214
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/29/2008 4:01:54 PM

Democrats, indepenants and others are equally to blame for not having the courage and moral forditude to stand up and stop it, or turn it back once the damage was evident. They are equally to blame for not standing up for proper education, for mainting the infrastructure, for letting people become so easily fooled into believing that these policies now destroying our nation would in anyway be benificial to them.


I agree, but I'd go even further.

It's the fault of the people for accepting the lack of leadership overall in the last thirty years or so. It's the fault of the people for buying into materialism over things of deeper value. It's the fault of the people that families are breaking down, and we are at the point now where most families don't even eat together anymore.

I do believe the best solutions start on the ground, generally, and work their way upwards.

Aristocracies will form in any political system, even Communist ones. It's simple human nature. In small numbers, they actually provides some great pluses. When they reach a critical mass however, they (like any group) begin to exert power and control over others . That starts a cycle that leads to an inevitable conclusion , unless stopped.

I think that's where the USA is now, at that crossroads.

Unless people wake up, and get involved, it won't get any better. We've seen the results of that all too easily.


“I hope we shall take warning from the example of England and crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations which dare already to challenge our Government to trial, and bid defiance to the laws of our country”

Thomas Jefferson
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 215
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/29/2008 4:44:37 PM
It's the fault of the people for accepting the lack of leadership overall in the last thirty years or so. It's the fault of the people for buying into materialism over things of deeper value. It's the fault of the people that families are breaking down, and we are at the point now where most families don't even eat together anymore.
________

No leadership, Or following the corporate sound machine. The slogans and sound bite. How can you argue, these words have feelings.
(death tax, Your money, TAX cuts, government waste, welfare queen, cut and run, support the troops)

The corporate leadership and marketing plan, Supply side.
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 216
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/29/2008 7:48:29 PM
recession that took Reagan a few years of massive cuts to get out of.

____________catchinnj


Reagan DOUBLED payroll tax.

He eliminated deduction of INTEREST ..
Total US consumer debt (not mortgage debt) reached $2.46 Trillion in June 2007, up from $2.398 Trillion at the end of 2006 (Source: Federal Reserve) http://www.creditcards.com/statistics/credit-card-industry-facts-and-personal-debt-statistics.php

Sales taxes had been deductable.

The IRS Made many tax code modifications.

Did he cut Spending?

Your fathers pension?
Did the CEO get a big woody from the BK? I assume they dumped the pension onto the Taxpayer.
 Mike72801
Joined: 10/28/2007
Msg: 217
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/30/2008 2:09:58 AM
When is someone going to man up and acknowledge the damage the Writer's Guild strike is doing to our economy?
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 220
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/30/2008 10:35:28 PM

Welcome to the New World Order...


I don't think that "they" greet us... but, other than that, I agree.
 mightybird
Joined: 1/21/2008
Msg: 222
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/31/2008 5:14:50 AM
Who should get the breaks the top 10 percent who pay 80 percent of taxes and supply jobs and keep the US going or the bottom feeders that eat up resources, do drugs and do not work.

I do not believe, hard working Americans should have to give their hard earned money to those who will not take care of themselves.
The ones who just take, and take and take or the ones here illegally
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 224
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/31/2008 6:19:25 AM
If a Libertarian wants small gov't and low taxes...what is he doing on the Internet?

Doesn't he know how the Internet came to be? Does he know microchips came from NASA's pursuit of the moon? What local gov't would pay for that big a technology-fest?

and what does the Libertarian think about supporting the troops in Iraq? B/c America tried decentralization, with the Articles of Confederation. It worked so poorly in raising defense cash, the Constitution had to be created...
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 231
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/31/2008 11:03:16 AM
ahhhh...so big gov't is a real bad thing, except where its good?

:)

that's like saying you believe in religion, except where it gets in your way. NASA, DoHS, the DARPA research that created the original Usernet for C3I, were all big government projects that someone decided were useful. all of government is created when someone thinks its needed. so I'm not sure what part of government you are against, if you believe in enjoying the fruits of government (and, of course, paying your share of the taxes for what you enjoy) when you find it worthwhile. It is all worthwhile to someone, that's why every part of it was created.
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 233
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/31/2008 12:14:31 PM
Firenight is absolutely correct.
Prior to 1986 the tax code was designed to goad the wealthy into re-investing their profits back into their own companies or into productive things society needed.
Unfortunately, due to the propaganda of self serving free market proponents like Milton Freedman, the American people were fooled into thinking greed was good.
They convinced America that the rich would re-invest naturally of course.
The tax code was changed and the rich have hoarded their money to the detriment of our country and society. It took 81 years for the Dow Jones Industrial Average to reach 2000. After 1986 it shot up from 2000 to 10000 in only 17 years ! In 1986 the rich started hoarding their money in the stock market.
If the Corporations really were re-investing back into their own companies then jobs would be staying at home instead of being exported overseas.
Why do you think the Euro has grown so quickly to be worth almost double the American dollar ? After all, aren't those socialist European countries about ready to slide off into the ocean, as free marketers have been telling us for 50 years ?
Unfortunately, the rich may have outsmarted themselves. By putting their wealth into paper securities like stocks instead of things with tangible value they may have cut their own throats. The sub-prime fiasco/con-job is presently a good example. It would be very easy for all our debt to become untenable and eat up those stock values very quickly. Then the hard work of 200 years of American industriousness might disappear in a snowstorm of paper. Or maby get repossessed by China.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 239
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/31/2008 3:06:14 PM
The level of pay in most cases match the level of responsiblity, training and education. Not to degrade people making minimum wage, but it doesn't require any skill to do those jobs.


Compare the rate of workers salaries to CEO salaries historically , over the last fifty years or so. Which increased faster ? Which increased in geometrical leaps ?

What changed ?

Workers jobs have certainly gotten more complex. Multitasking is the new religion. Clients now demand more services, across the board. People have less time. Much more information has to be processed, and in a quicker time frame. There's more competition between businesses.

Fifty years ago, one could have a family and a home - on one salary. Many working class people did, without any problems. I saw that in California in 1966, and it was inspiring to see.

Look at something like the Robb Report. This new aristocracy has increased in volume so much that it's created it's own industries and products catering to the super-rich. You have gated communities, security services, and luxury items that remind one of a Saudi Prince's treasure.

Want a diamond coated watch ? Maybe your own personalized million dollar yacht ?


Just look at the difference in reaction between Katrina and the brushfires in California. In the first case, people were too dumb to not live in an obviously dangerous location due to flooding.

In the second, those that built their mansions in a well known fire area were never charged with the same level of "stupidity".

Two sets of rules.

At with the increase in wealth, this enormous gain of treasure, the super rich are still not happy. Tax breaks are given, estate taxes reduced......

And what have they actually done for their country ?

Poverty has increased, American jobs have been lost in record numbers, and the economy is in shambles. The country is weaker, and this in a land of great strength and opportunities.

There's no reason for this except greed over country.

Having gained the most by living in their country, they take their thirty pieces of gold and leave it to be placed on that cross to suffer, after selling it out for their own benefit.
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 240
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 1/31/2008 4:26:00 PM
Back to my cut and paste.

The 70% did not kick in until about $3 million dollars in todays money. The tax cut of the 80's double the min/Wage workers taxes yet cut the have mores rate. $13,846 a day seems like amount one can live on.

"The Associated Press reported on August 4, 2007, that the president of Nike, Mark Parker, “raked in $3.6 million [in compensation] in ‘07.” That’s $13,846 per weekday, $69,230 a week. And yet it would still keep him just below the top 70% tax rate if this were the pre-Reagan era. We had a social consensus that somebody earning around $3 million a year was fine, but above that was really more than anybody needs to live in America."


The tax codes are used to shift tax burden based on special interest.
Deduction of off shore expense.
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 243
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 2/1/2008 1:12:48 AM

First off, Kool aid is spelled with a K. And second, it was "flavor aid", not Kool aid


Really?

http://www.google.com/search?q=kool+aid


And until Reagan ravaged our economy, there was no such thing as the hyper-rich that we have today


Ever been to Hearst castle? Newport? Bel Air?

I think you mean "until Reagan seriously widnened the gap between rich and poor just as every republican administration since has ".


consume our lively hood


My 'hood aint that lively. There's some cows down the road a ways, and it's all covered with snow at the moment.
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 244
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 2/1/2008 1:21:14 AM

The new World order? poor choice of words.


Yes, it is actually a pretty old term.

Their goal is taking a lot longer than they wanted, but it is happening... at a crawl speed.
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 245
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 2/1/2008 1:24:56 AM

until Reagan ravaged our economy, there was no such thing as the hyper-rich that we have today.


WHAT????

Hyper rich?

Must be a youth term...

And, Reagan was only a puppet. Or I mean, er president.

Which, basically is the same thing.

Or, do you really think that Dubya runs this country????
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 247
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 2/1/2008 5:21:08 PM
Middle class

R.I.P.
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 249
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 2/3/2008 12:15:48 PM
How about this Ronnie Reagan? Funny how this fits so with todays GW Bush economy.
__________

This is Ronald Reagan speaking to you from Hollywood. You know me as a motion picture actor but tonight I'm just a citizen pretty concerned about the national election next month and more than a little impatient with those promises the Republicans made before they got control of Congress a couple years ago.

I remember listening to the radio on election night in 1946. Joseph Martin, the Republican Speaker of the House, said very solemnly, and I quote, "We Republicans intend to work for a real increase in income for everybody by encouraging more production and lower prices without impairing wages or working conditions", unquote. Remember that promise: a real increase in income for everybody. But what actually happened?



The profits of corporations have doubled, while workers' wages have increased by only one-quarter. In other words, profits have gone up four times as much as wages, and the small increase workers did receive was more than eaten up by rising prices, which have also bored into their savings.

For example, here is an Associate Press Dispatch I read the other day about Smith L. Carpenter, a craftsman in Union Springs, New York. It seems that Mr. Carpenter retired some years ago thinking he had enough money saved up that he could live out his last years without having to worry. But he didn’t figure on this Republican inflation, which ate up all of his savings, and so he's gone back to work. The reason this is news, is Mr. Carpenter is 91 years old.



Now, take as a contrast the Standard Oil Company of New Jersey, which reported a net profit of $210 million after taxes for the first half of 1948; an increase of 70% in one year.

In other words, high prices have not been caused by higher wages, but by bigger and bigger profits.

The Republican promises sounded pretty good in 1946, but what has happened since then, since the 80th Congress took over? Prices have climbed to the highest level in history, although the death of the OPA was supposed to bring prices down through "the natural process of free competition". Labor has been handcuffed with the vicious Taft-Hartley law. Social Security benefits have been snatched away from almost a million workers by the Gearhart bill. Fair employment practices, which had worked so well during war time, have been abandoned. Veterans' pleas for low cost homes have been ignored, and many people are still living in made-over chicken coops and garages.



Tax-reduction bills have been passed to benefit the higher-income brackets alone.

The average worker saved only $1.73 a week. In the false name of economy, millions of children have been deprived of milk once provided through the federal school lunch program.

This was the payoff of the Republicans' promises. And this is why we must have new faces in the Congress of the United States: Democratic faces.

This is why we must not only elect President Truman, but also men like Mayor Hubert Humphrey of Minneapolis, the Democratic candidate for Senator from Minnesota. Mayor Humphrey at 37 is one of the ablest men in public life. He's running against Joe Ball, who was a member of the Senate Labor Committee, helped write the Taft-Hartley law. The Republicans don't want to lose Ball, and are spending a small fortune on his campaign. They've even sent [Thomas] Dewey and [Earl] Warren to Minneapolis to speak for him. President Truman knows the value of a man like Hubert Humphrey in the Senate, and he has been in Minneapolis too, campaigning against Joe Ball. Mayor Humphrey and Ball are the symbols of the political battle going on in America today. While Ball is a banner carrier for Wall Street, Mayor Humphrey is fighting for all the principles advocated by President Truman; for adequate low cost housing, for civil rights, for prices people can afford to pay, and for a labor movement freed of the Taft-Hartley law. I take great pride in presenting my friend from Minneapolis, Mayor Hubert H. Humphrey, candidate for United States Senator."
Reagan Campaigns for Truman in 1948.
 rsx11s
Joined: 3/28/2007
Msg: 250
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 2/4/2008 3:50:39 PM
Nobody wants to impeach Bush and put Cheney in charge. Impeaching them both would be a disaster, they'll only be in office for another 300 days or so.

I see the new budget is the biggest clusterfuck in American history.

What idiot ever thought Bush was doing a good job?
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 251
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 2/4/2008 4:44:32 PM
WASHINGTON - The record $3.1 trillion budget proposed by President Bush on Monday would produce eyepopping federal deficits, despite his attempts to impose politically wrenching curbs on Medicare and eliminate scores of popular domestic programs.

Bush's lame-duck budget plan is likely to be ignored by Congress, which is controlled by Democrats and already looking ahead to November elections. His long-term projections are mostly academic since he's leaving office next January.

Bush proposes killing or cutting back sharply 151 programs to save $18 billion next year. Many of those cuts have been proposed and rejected by Congress before, such as moves to eliminate community services grants to nonprofit groups that help the poor, a food program aimed at low-income seniors and grants to help states keep illegal immigrants convicted of felonies in jail. Lawmakers will surely restore proposed cuts to clean water grants, funding for local law enforcement and homeland security grants to states and local governments.
 jed456
Joined: 4/26/2005
Msg: 252
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 2/4/2008 4:46:58 PM
such as moves to eliminate community services grants to nonprofit groups that help the poor, a food program aimed at low-income seniors and grants to help states keep illegal immigrants convicted of felonies in jail.

Yeah this guy gives a sh&t!
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 256
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 2/5/2008 4:23:28 PM
"The number's so terrible it's almost beyond belief, especially among the optimists," said Scott Anderson, senior economist at Wells Fargo & Co. ???

Kind of says it all. I wonder if anyone can point out the bright side of the Bush Economy?

More and larger Tax cuts?
Larger Corp Profits from sending jobs overseas?


=================
U.S. Service Sector Slows Down
By VINNEE TONG – 1 hour ago
NEW YORK (AP) — Lingering hopes that the U.S. economy might avert a recession withered Tuesday after the nation's service sector — its banks, travel companies, contractors and stores, among others — shrank for the first time in five years.
It was unwelcome news for many investors, who were beginning to believe that the Federal Reserve might engineer a way out of the worst economic slowdown since 1991. Stocks tumbled, with the Dow Jones industrial average losing 370 points, its biggest point drop since August.
Much of the talk was not about whether there would be a recession, but about how bad it might be.
"The number's so terrible it's almost beyond belief, especially among the optimists," said Scott Anderson, senior economist at Wells Fargo & Co. "I think the writing's on the wall. More and more economists are talking about recession, and whether it'll be a severe or mild one."
The January reading from the Institute of Supply Management "was about as big a shock as you can probably get," said Joel Naroff, chief economist at Commerce Bancorp.
Anderson said he believes January may end up being the official start of a recession. Many businesses already suspect as much.
Moving company Allied Van Lines filed for bankruptcy on Tuesday, saying it had fallen victim to the downturn in the housing market and its own heavy debt load. Charming Shoppes Inc. — which runs the Petite Sophisticate and Lane Bryant clothing stores — said it would cut 200 jobs and close 150 stores.
Stocks of rental car companies plunged Monday after Dollar Thrifty Automotive Group Inc. slashed its 2007 earnings guidance. The company said it sees weak demand in the travel market and soft used-car sales.
Ryan Kaminski, who runs a Mexican restaurant in Sarasota, Fla., said the squeeze he has felt as both a business owner and a consumer since last summer is growing worse. The restaurant's traffic started thinning out last summer, pulling 2007 sales down 10 percent from a year earlier, and so far this year sales are down 15 percent from a year ago.
"I used to be able to find a person from any trade — carpenters, electricians, plumbers — in the restaurant every day," he said. "Since the housing market crashed, it's just dried up. Those type of customers are just gone."
Kaminski, 31, said he and his wife don't spend much anymore either. "We've cut out eating out and we didn't go on vacation last year," he said. "It's getting bad."
In the tourism sector, water park operator Great Wolf Resorts Inc. is seeing a drop in business at its resorts in Traverse City, Mich., and Sandusky, Ohio — two areas where jobs are dependent on the sagging auto industry, said the company's chief executive, John Emery.
Business is up slightly overall for the Madison, Wis.-based operator of 10 resorts. But at the Rust Belt parks, families are cutting their spending by 2 percent to 4 percent. "Those are tough markets for families for right now," Emery said.
Executives surveyed for the service sector report by the Institute for Supply Management fretted over the economy, high oil prices, the falling stock market, lower customer demand, stiffer competition and sluggish sales, said Anthony Nieves, chairman of the trade group's non-manufacturing business survey committee.
The ISM's new composite index measuring the health of the service sector was 44.6 in January, below the level of 50 that indicates expansion. The group's measure of non-manufacturing business activity fell to 41.9 in January from a revised reading of 54.4 in December — its largest drop ever. Economists surveyed by Thomson Financial/IFR had expected a slight slowdown but had still forecast growth, with a median estimate of 53.
The last time the ISM reported that the service sector shrank — that is, registered less than 50 — was March 2003.
"I think it will be tipping plenty of people over the edge" in convincing economists that the U.S. is in a recession, said Nigel Gault, chief U.S. economist at Global Insight.
Gault said that in March 2001, the beginning of the last recession, the index had a break-even reading of 50. And during that recession, the index hung around 48 or 49 — several points higher than January's reading.
"This is an absolute collapse of this index," he said.
Two measures that fell were those for new orders and employment, and that could signal more trouble ahead. New orders fell to 43.5 while employment fell to 43.9. The drop in employment is especially troubling, because the service sector has been the overall economy's engine of job growth for months.
Factories eliminated 28,000 jobs in January and have cut 269,000 jobs over the past 12 months, the government reported last week. The economy as a whole lost 17,000 jobs last month, which was the first nationwide loss of jobs since August 2003.
The financial services industry, part of the wider service economy, has been especially hard hit by falling home prices, mortgage defaults, and the devaluation of mortgage-backed investments.
After writing down their portfolios and putting money in reserve to prepare for further losses, banks, mortgage lenders and brokerages are now strapped for cash and have pared their payrolls to cut costs.
Challenger, Gray & Christmas Inc., a placement consulting firm, said companies announced 69 percent more job cuts in January than in December, and about 21 percent of those were in the financial sector. According to the firm, the financial sector eliminated more than 153,000 jobs in 2007, a record amount.
 pappy009
Joined: 2/3/2008
Msg: 257
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 2/6/2008 7:25:36 AM
How do you create an economy without Gold. This is how. We mortgage our countries to the international bankers. They back our economies with funds. 1913 CE.

How do we get these funds?

Well glad you asked, upon birth your mom and doc create a birth certificate. On that birth certificate is a number. That number is a Bond Tracking Number to the IMF. You see, in order to create an economy thru international banks you mortgage your Kids off to them. Now that Bond Tracking number is connected to an amount of Gold in the area of 1 million. Dollars. Its yours for selling off your country to the bankers.

What happens to that money?

I'm glad you asked. The federal government downloads this money to your province or state as your contribution, then provincal or state taxes make up the rest including an Income tax if you have a SS or SIN number. You are employed by the government.

This plus corporate tax, property tax, various other taxes make your economy. The Income tax is the debt to pay off those extras that they borrowed. Not one red cent of income tax pays for your society. Its Interest to the banks.

You can access that money because it yours, your proof is the Birth Certificate. You must get rid of your SS or SIN number leagally, it can be done, they can't refuse you because your under Common Law. Thats where the government obeys you. Your a sovergn born ON the country not in it. Your Bill or Charter of RIGHTS!!!!!!!!

Untill you understand that you will never understand your governments ability to create debt or how your economy works./

How do we get rid of this debt?

Easy, you start a war so that it terminates the Birth Certificate and kill thousands of your own to wipe out that debt. After the 2nd WW money was everywhere to be had. Before the war there was none. The depression was to pay off the bankers.

Do your own research if you don't understand.
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 259
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History
If George W bush is doing so bad why is the economy doing so good?
Posted: 2/6/2008 12:42:34 PM
bush is the man, extra tax refund money?

Clinton Budget $1.9 trillion dollars........... Bush $3.1 trillion

ha
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