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 bolotye
Joined: 12/21/2004
Msg: 5
Well you made the choice to have a baby with himPage 3 of 4    (1, 2, 3, 4)
OP

Your situation is obviously different. It seems you had a clear idea of the man you were with and it felt right. You certainly couldnt forsee him turning out the way he did. Sometimes people are just great and for whatever reason they change up on us for whatever reason.

The female postings I cant stand are the ones who say...ok...im pregnant now....or my ex owes me money...or my ex slept with my best friend.

And those particular posts being written with a background of the man from day one being an idiot. A druggie, a bum a loser in general.

Tada...you picked the man. What exactly where you expecting?

The women that post here about being with a man from day one that has all the obvious not-so-pleasant-upstanding qualities, then whine about said man turning out to be a jerk, are reeping what they've sown.

There is another gal in another thread speaking of being so squeeky clean and the ex having an impressive criminal background and she is now....in a pickle.

Tada.....Of course she is. She picked an idiot.

Those are the posts that are ridiculous.
 KIWI3nme
Joined: 6/6/2006
Msg: 9
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 12:20:35 PM
very well said and i agree....

like many other woman here i didnt know whatsoever that my ex hubby would end up being a total jackass and a totally selfish human being.We were together for 5 yrs before marriage and kids , and it wasnt until baby number 2 was on his way that we took a nosedive.

I think stress, finances and more responsibilty overtook him and like a pansyass he would rather take off than face it like a man and hold my hand through the hard times.So I did the chin up and grinned and beared it all alone...AND I SUCCEEDED!!

Some men and women dont show thier true blue colors until they are knee deep in shit so much that they panic and bolt.Its a confidence lack and selfish way if thinking.My ex and I were perfect BF/GF but throw in shitload of grown up tasks ptttttt he runs and hides...and lets his parents take care of it.

The cool thing is I have moved on so much in 4 yrs and hes exactly where he left off...WORTHLESS AND UNHAPPY..
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 15
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History
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 3:14:49 PM
I'll go out on a limb and point out the "you picked him" point comes out when the OP gets into all the BS that is between the two parents, rather than the issue of the child/children. I don't care if your ex is banging someone younger than you and you got jealous, I will point out HOW that jealousy or rather how you handle it can affect the child/children (the jealousy can be understandable, and valid but I have no patience for whining about it). We are all supposedly mature adults, and as such need the ability to separate our issues and deal with them as an adult, not some highschool prom queen/ football jock with their nose out of joint.
 MrGordonGecko
Joined: 6/29/2006
Msg: 19
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 3:25:12 PM

And on a final note who the hell are we to judge??


If you pay taxes and that other person's child uses any resources that require tax dollars to fund it, then you have the right to judge. Doesn't mean you should judge or it's a great idea to judge, but the right is there.

If the local library is being run like crap, I have a right to judge. My tax dollars pay for the facility, it pays for it's staff, it pays for it's upkeep. Even if I don't use the library myself.

So all the welfare mothers out there? Well I'm sorry if they are in a tough situation, but they really should shut the **** up. No one wants to hear a welfare mother, with a baby who is sucking on the government's tit, paid for by everyone else's tax dollars, get in everyone's faces and say "Don't judge me" Ok fine. Don't cost me any money, then I won't judge you.

If I was poor and robbed a bank and went to jail for it, I can't tell people NOT TO JUDGE ME. I'll go somewhere, even if it's shitty, and get three meals a day, a bed to sleep in and free medical care. That's more than some taxpaying Americans have in real life. Who would I be to tell them not to judge me when they are paying for my stay at Club Fed?

Why do most people want to own a home? Because they want one place where no one can tell them what to do. It's their place. If they want to paint it pink, they can. If they want to run around inside naked and covered in peanut butter, they can. If they want to house the world's largest lint collection inside, they can. But you have to pay for the priviledge of that freedom. It doesn't come for free.

So unless you parents want to completely foot the bill for the cost of schools in America and give all non parents a refund, then maybe it's time to shut up with the whining.
 LoonyTunz
Joined: 8/11/2006
Msg: 22
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History
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 3:39:59 PM
Single parents may have "ex issues", but frankly I for one am tired of too many people not being able to SEPARATE ex issues from childrens issues. Making a child pay for a sourred relationship is unfair to the child and juvenile behaviour.

How to resolve issues with an ex that may be difficult to deal with is valid, but again if the post is about you children I really don't care to hear about his/her faults unless they directly affect said child.
 KIWI3nme
Joined: 6/6/2006
Msg: 25
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 3:47:55 PM
yeooowwwchhhhh

ok I run around my house naked with whipped cream and chocolate sauce on, I have a huge laundry pile in the corner collecting lint...my kids toys are scattered around thier room they go crunch when you step on them...i have never been on welfare and dont supprt welfare bums BUT....MY SONS AUTISM FUNDING IS SUPPORTED BY THE GOV...I dont go to the library much and my house is rented and we can do anything we pretty much fuken want..do i still have to buy a house do all these above??

whatever.....

everyone has a story to tell..some ppl had children blind some with eyes wide open...that doesnt mean they are deserving of ill attention and deserve to get slammed for poor decisions.

Mothers who know thier guys are trash before getting pregnant are the ones who deserve a headshake.They knew darn well the concequences and have no reason to whine about his lack of fatherly love and his i dont give a shit about the baby crap, im outta here. Thats in my opinion DUMB!!! then they bich and whine about how hard life is..

now moms like myself....as I have said many many times...my ex turned into a lifesucking selfish ahole after the kids were born...and i love myself and my family waaayy to much to go through that shit..
 MrGordonGecko
Joined: 6/29/2006
Msg: 26
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 4:00:41 PM
And on a final note who the hell are we to judge??



The gist of the OP's original post is about not having someone judge them for having children.

Ok, well look at it this way. When people get a job almost anywhere, in almost all cases, what do you get? You get some kind of employee handbook describing all kinds of things about the job. What's included? That's right, often there is a section about dress code and grooming.

What gave the right for your employers to tell you how to dress at work? What gave them the right to tell you how long your hair should be? What gave them the right to tell you what to do and where to go while you are at work? What gave them the right to drag you into an office and criticize the level of your work?

What in the world gave them that right?

The paycheck.

They purchased the right, within a limited scope, to tell you what to do and to decide for themselves if you are doing it good enough for them.

This happens everyday in the real working world. Why should it be any different for parents who have children who are using resources paid for by tax dollars? By paying taxes, people, including non parents, have the right to judge anything and everyone using the resources purchased by those tax dollars. And because some people wouldn't do it doesn't mean all people should be disbarred from doing it. I feel bad for people who have tough times and need some help. I don't begrudge them that help. But I begrudge them their gall to tell the rest of us to not have a right to judge them when we are all paying to fix their particular problem.

Don't believe me? Some of you go into your nice semi corporate job on Monday with a pink mohawk and leather pants and let's see how far the "Don't Judge Me" line lasts.
 KIWI3nme
Joined: 6/6/2006
Msg: 27
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 4:24:26 PM
awww i wore pink shoes a few weeks ago because my shoes had a hole in the bottom...the big guy just looked at them and said change them tomorrow..

a few weeks later my little toe broke through my fave black shoes...yet again...change them tomorrow..

one of our girls had a earring through her eyebrow...and one in her nose...is she judged for that?? no... do we work in a corporate office ?? YES...

whatever buddy im sorry you are spewing to the wrong ppl and give up while you still can..I thank GOD have never been on welfare..know ppl who are...some who dont deserve it some who do...i 100 % dont support the lazy bums who take advantage of it..but there are ppl who need it and truly want to better themselves and only are on it for a limited time.

What pisses me off is the goddam stereotyping...you are alone...you are a single mom...where is the daddy...you were a bad wife..you must have done something to him...your wife left you..what did you do to her?? you dont have custody are you a deadbeat?? GIVE IT UP PPL??

why cant we have the childish mentality like our kids do>?> where everyone is a potencial friend...do you want to come out and play?? whats your name...not looking eachother up and down sizing eachother up and making snap judgements?? its so lame..its never gonna stop...unless we put a stop to it...
 MrGordonGecko
Joined: 6/29/2006
Msg: 32
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 5:18:18 PM

Some people come to internet forums for support because of the anonymity it affords..they can ask for and seek support and advice without feeling the shame and judgment that often comes when first reaching out to change their situation. Also, some people may be in a dangerous situation, have realized it, and are looking to get out, but are not able to seek help in any identifiable way without putting themselves in further danger.

Unfortunately, that same anonymity seems to make some people think it is permissable to be rude, inconsiderate and downright nasty. There is really no need to do so..if someone is seeking some words of support or advice and you have none to give, then simply move on! Why take the opportunity to foster more anger, hurt and bitterness just because you can?



If you walk out into the rain, you might get wet.

The choice to post on the forums is the same thing. If you choose to do it, you have to accept the consequences of taking that action, both the good and the bad.

If you wan to vent about your problems and want to only hear the good? Hire a therapist. But they cost money, and again, that just goes back to the idea that nothing is free in life.

I say alot of things that are not politically correct on these forums. I get hammered all the time for them. I get personal shots taken at me on a regular basis. But I accept that's a consequence of posting things that are not politically correct. I don't cry about it. I walk out into the rain, I know I might get wet.

If you want compassion and mercy, go to confession on Sunday. If you come to a public forum online, you take your chances. You put yourself in a position to hear the things you might not want to hear. It's not that much different from having a child. If you are a single parent, you put yourself into the position to be a single parent. Maybe someone cheated on you. So what. Maybe someone left you. So what. Maybe someone divorced you for your best friend. So what.

In real life, we can't assume people are going to care. It's nice when they do, but we can't demand it and we can't expect it.
 MrGordonGecko
Joined: 6/29/2006
Msg: 36
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 5:38:30 PM
No, but we can expect human decency and that if someone doesn't care, they will have the maturity and respect to keep their trap shut.


No, actually we don't. In real life, we are entitled to nothing. If you want something, maybe if you are really lucky, it's given to you, most of the time you have to go out there and earn it.

As for the "It is my opinion that when someone resorts to personal attacks or repeats such useless rhetoric as "well, you picked them" it is because they have nothing intelligent to say" issue, look at this way -

Women control absolutely who has sex with them. Unless they are getting raped or being sold into some prostitution ring, they have absolute power. This is clear to all men in westernized society, because "No Means No"

Adult women control absolutely if they have a child or not. Unless they are a minor or in some other rare cases, they have absolute power over birth. If they want to have a child, they can. If they don't, they can abort the child. The father has no legal say in the matter.

So please, tell me, since women have near absolute power over the issue of sex and child birth in the westernized world, how exactly is it offensive for someone to point out that the woman in question picked the father, made the decision to have a baby and that it was her choice?

With absolute power comes absolute accountability. They go hand in hand.

So someone please tell me, how is the discussion of choice by a woman to have a child inaccurate?

So are you pissed that people are essentially telling the truth? Or are you pissed at what that truth really means? Either way, most men don't care.
 MrGordonGecko
Joined: 6/29/2006
Msg: 42
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 7:00:19 PM

1. Because she already knows this.



If she knows it, and exposes herself to public scrutiny simply by being on an online dating site in the first place, then why exactly is it offensive for someone to point it out to her?



Where did this thought even come up? This was a thread about how everyone is TOO QUICK TO JUDGE when someone is seeking advice.


I certainly did not say all women here are on welfare. I was making a point that the right to judge is, in part, entirely dependent on who pays your bills. When people are kids, their parents can choose to parent them anyway they want within the law, and it's socially accepted. If your parent decides they don't like who you date and tell you to your face, why can they do that? Because you live in their house. If you don't want to hear it, then move out and pay your own bills. If your boss doesn't like the quality of your work and gets in your face, why can they do that? Because they give you a paycheck every two weeks. If you don't want to hear it, then go find a new job.

If you don't want to hear potential replies you won't like, don't post on the Internet. Sorry if you didn't get the memo, but SOMETIMES PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HEAR THINGS THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR IN LIFE.

Actually this thread is about the implied judgement that comes when someone places the issue of accountability of choice of mate and choice of birth on the table.

Yet the question still poses itself - If women have absolute power over who has sex with them and whether they have a child or not, why should they not retain absolute accountability if that blows up in their face?
 MrGordonGecko
Joined: 6/29/2006
Msg: 45
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 7:15:53 PM

"Well you made the choice to have a baby with him"



You choose to have sex, you choose to accept the risk that a child may be born out of it



Thanks for walking right into that.

 MrGordonGecko
Joined: 6/29/2006
Msg: 54
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/5/2006 8:54:01 PM
Let's see if this all adds up.

A woman has a right to choose. For when to have sex, whom to have sex with and for having babies or not. Her decisions are nearly absolute. They are established in the westernized world and protected heavily by law. If anyone has a problem with that, she cries out, "It's my body and my baby, I can do whatever I want, it's my choice"

Then if it all blows up in her face, she can't handle someone telling her that it was her choice?

Sure I could see if you called the woman any number of other things, vile and unpleasant things, that she would be legitimately offended. But taking offense for someone simply restating the obvious?

With power comes responsibility, it's too bad that some people here seem to think that should only apply when it's convienient.
 Diggy03
Joined: 4/7/2005
Msg: 65
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History
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 10/6/2006 11:56:58 AM
Damn striaght I chose my child's father to have her with. Of all the men that came before him he was the lucky one to sire his own child and have me as that child's mother.

We made a very cute baby I might add!!! (toot toot)

Pssstt.... no matter why my adult relationship with her father disintegrated.... I have THE BEST part of him!!!!

Thank you!
 barbee1970
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 78
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 4/17/2009 11:33:17 PM
Thank you OP! Yes the first guy and I were friends. He was Hispanic. We went everywhere together. After my son was born, he would not find work.

Yes I picked him cause he wanted to be with me. We split up after 3 yrs. I married the next guy who was white, but alcohol problem was worse than the Mexican guy. We had a son. He could not hold a job. He was charming in the beginning, too. If these guys were a**holes from jump, naturally, I would have never had anything to do with them.

With the first, people were ripping me about the whole "racial purity" thing. Yes, today, my older son more resembles the old man, right down to Spanish accent. Who cares? He's smart and he's human. He works(at Walmart).
 valenciacityx
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 79
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 6/7/2009 11:26:20 PM
You choose it, and you are boxed in by the series of decisions you have made since.
I have choosen never to have any kids, not to be around kids, not to adopt. I hated being a kid. I will CHOOSE not to go out with somebody that has kids (ie they cant take care of their ownselves) I also choose never to get married. We all build our own hell and then want to complain about it.
Being single sucks, sometimes it beats the alternatives.
 NotTheAverageChick
Joined: 7/9/2006
Msg: 82
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 6/11/2009 10:21:32 PM
That's why picking someone to be intimately connected to for the next 18+ years should not be taken lightly! But, people jump into sexual relationships and even have long-term 'superficial' relationships during which they never inquire about or pay attention to key characteristics like: employment prospects, drug/alcohol use, family history of mental illness, criminal history, and views on gender roles, control/submission, maturity and what it means, etc. Then, a pregnancy happens, someone acts in COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE, 'seen on every daytime talk show' behavior and the woman acts SURPRISED and HURT!! Then they don't want to be called out about it!
The reality is that pregnancies don't 'just happen'...there is active neglect of contraception that leads to a PREDICTABLE LIKELY conclusion. No one cares nor even remembers your ex-boy/girlfriends that just didn't work out. But, when you bring kids into things....and have 18+ years of continued interaction (or repercussions from)...then you complain about him/her and want sympathy/empathy....yeah, people are gonna remind you, "You picked him!"
 valenciacityx
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 83
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 6/20/2009 3:01:07 PM
"^^^^^^^^^^^ which kinda makes me wonder what you want from women........sex, right? Well I'm glad to know that we serve at least one useful purpose in your world. "

If all you have to offer is sex, then you dont serve a useful purpose in my world at all.
 My I
Joined: 1/23/2007
Msg: 86
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 6/22/2009 12:51:04 AM

Well I'm glad to know that we serve at least one useful purpose in your world.


In his defense, there are swingers, adulterers, cougars and women seeking intimate encounters who are members on this site. What purpose are men serving for these women?

Relative to the topic, I think a woman who permits herself to be vulnerable must take the majority of responsibility for allowing a man to penetrate her body. Some can come off as surprised victims - it's their only defense for a poor decision made - but it's absolutely ridiculous to suggest a man is just as responsible as she is for getting her pregnant.

If that is the case, and the responsibility is 50/50, I shutter to think a woman is more protective about lending out her car to a total stranger and less concerned about her body and the liability resulting from that.

I disagree with the topic "you made the choice", if it was a relationship built with a good foundation and a good reason to believe the relationship should be a very long term relationship. In that kind of situation, I wouldn't fault a woman because there is no fault to be had.


What I don't like about the way the statement is tossed around is the implying that we all knew that he would end up changing before our eyes once the child was born


On the other hand, some w0men change drastically when they have children. I've seen it, I've lived it, I walked away from it. Long story short, my daughters live with the "irresponsible loser" - me (sarcasm). I was happy in our relationship until my ex-wife decided everyone, including the kids, needed to cater to her.

Some of the women posting in this thread kinda remind me of my ex..... I think they are incognisant (benefit of the doubt - lol) of the fact they could be part of the reason men get called jerks and/or are part of the reasons men do act like jerks; nothing is ever good enough for some women no matter what (chronic complainers). So, why bother getting the kids caught in the middle of a drama queen's behaviour? The experience would be so negative and detrimental to the child's mental and emotional well being.
 valenciacityx
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 91
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 6/24/2009 1:49:48 PM
20 years in the military, nope, dont know a damn thing about commitment
14 years with the last girlfriend, nope, I dont know a damn thing about commitment
4 years of college and additional 2 for a Masters certification, nope, I dont know a damn thing about commitement
Learned a foreign language and travelled the world, no damn commitment there.
Fixed at 18, nope, I dont know a damn thing about commitment, that operation was just a tempory whim
Left my parents house when I was 15, I think I have done my share of growing up.

Good to know that all women are good for is makin babies and going to church in a white gown. I will continue to chase my bliss, glad to know I can cross this fishing hole off.
 DaTreeGuy
Joined: 12/30/2007
Msg: 92
Well you made the choice to have a baby with him
Posted: 6/24/2009 1:58:08 PM
I'm a father with sole custody, and I have no problems with admitting that I did, in fact, choose a complete flake for a baby's momma. Can't duck or dodge the assertion that it took two to tango, and I was one of them.
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