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 MissAidyn
Joined: 3/8/2008
Msg: 187
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?Page 4 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
Is it just me or does that word "obedience" make others cringe as well? I hate to hear it being said, specially in the context of marriage. I'm such a feminist that my husband will probably end up obeying me! lol! In our vows, he can say obey and I'll just go with "I promise to love and not kill you"
 StrangerInTheHouse
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 191
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/12/2008 12:34:49 PM


Seemed like they were getting married to their dog!

Indeed... This sounds like a master/slave relationship. Who was the one who must be answered "yes" to?
Male or female? ....or the one who has the most money?

Dynamics of power in any relationship are different... and so I believe it's always been....
 Spitfire1956
Joined: 3/9/2008
Msg: 192
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/12/2008 3:53:20 PM
Sorry..but I will never "obey" any man....I have always respected my vows, and my spouse..but if he told me to do anything and said I had to obey him...ohh no way!!
 StrangerInTheHouse
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 193
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/12/2008 5:21:03 PM
In these days, I think many women (in the US, at least) have enough social equality with males where they don't feel obligated to obey their male mates. This is not the case in most of the world, for one reason or another.
My son was in the infantry in Afghanistan and he was told that soldiers shouldn't even look at Afghan women, lest their husband should see them, blame the woman for it and beat them when they got home.
I also know that even in some minority cultures in the US, women feel they have to accept marital infidelity. I heard one woman tell another, in mixed company, in the office at work no less:"I don't even think about it anymore. He just calls me and tells me. To me, it's like "I'm eating out tonight, honey."
Although I'm sure nobody likes to be treated this way by their mates, basically it's like economics in that if one mate needs the other more than the other needs them, then they're forced to accept things they wouldn't under other circumstances... Although males are generally less accepting of this than females in general.
Few well educated white women in the US feel so desperate these days that they need to accept unequal status with their mate. Hence, they demand an equal (or sometimes greater than equal) status with their mates.

Translation: "Obey" is going out of style in the US.
 mthomjmark
Joined: 2/27/2008
Msg: 197
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/16/2008 10:05:13 PM
Good Lord get a grip. It's been said for a long time and is part of the vows. If the couple doesn't mind then get over it. I know marriage and monogamy are very uncool in todays messed up world, but some people do believe in it. Obey isn't like a dog its about respecting each others wishes, sacrificing for eachother and loving eachother. Again, I know this is a huge shocker, but the couple doesnt' really care what people think about someone who over analyzes the vows. Its their day, not yours.
 fixitfred
Joined: 11/10/2007
Msg: 199
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History
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/18/2008 12:55:04 AM
I would never marry anyone that didn't love, honor and ebay.
 fixitfred
Joined: 11/10/2007
Msg: 201
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To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/18/2008 8:30:45 AM
If you want serious, I can give you serious. I would never marry anyone that didn't love, honor and yes obey. A lot of failed marriages in modern society come from feminazi's that think this is outdated thinking. It's biblical and I expect a lot of flak because I can't fully explain all the ramifications in a few sentences and most don't fully understand the concept of obedience they think it means you are considered less of a person or not considered an equal partner but that is not the case.
 akmusic
Joined: 1/27/2008
Msg: 202
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/18/2008 9:24:54 AM
Yeah I think they meant respect.
 fixitfred
Joined: 11/10/2007
Msg: 206
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To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/20/2008 9:28:36 PM

but have learned that "receiving " is as important and a gift you "share" with each other. Any thoughts?
I love to receive!
 playlife
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 208
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/22/2008 4:13:18 PM
very well put i have to agree 100% this is the best i have heard it said 2 thumbs up way to go girl.............
 fixitfred
Joined: 11/10/2007
Msg: 210
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To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/23/2008 12:06:57 AM
This is the epitome of feminism misguided thinking and whats wrong with modern society:

In response to ang65, marriages were not "forever" but they did last a life-time because the average life-span was around 40.
They were forever and if they lived to 80 or 120 yrs they still would have died married and happy in their ignorance not knowing what a real woman should have been.


Women's lib, whatever that was, since there were so many types of movements, did not ruin society.
It absolutely has and "woman lib" wasn't a single event it was and is a constant push to emasculate men and somehow make woman into the best man substitute possible. An attempt to make men and woman totally equal which is impossible and why woman would want to move down off their pedestal to try to be on the same level as a man I will never know.


The world and society was already going through changes since the beginning of the industrial revolution. If you want to place blame anywhere, blame it on the rapid advances of science and technology, which has forever changed the way people view the world and themselves. The social movements of the 60s were merely just a reflection of this and not a cause.
More gibber jabber, advances in technology has nothing to do with woman becoming so enlightened.


A woman's place is not necessarily where ever she chooses it be but what the needs of society are as well.
It is exactly where she chooses and what she chooses dictates the direction of society and thanks to "woman's lib" society is going to he11 in a hand basket.


This country and every other modern country could not have been as successful without the contributions of women in the workforce.
Femi-nazi deeply ingrained thinking that kids raise themselves and think modern technology and industrialism is a real contribution forgetting the only thing that is important, Human development.


Whenever I hear anyone complain about women "working" or not staying in their "place," I quickly point out to them that the next time they get sick and have to be admitted to the hospital, they should be very thankful that women stayed in their "place" and continued to work.
This is actually more misguided thinking but it smells of stereotyping. I have more to say but am pretty tired and surprised I said all of this. Did come to this brilliant insights on your own or are you a victim of some liberal lower education institute?
 nycdoctor
Joined: 8/2/2005
Msg: 211
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:19:14 AM
I personally love someone who is submissive. The woman now are making men like woman
 dontmakecookies
Joined: 11/1/2006
Msg: 212
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To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/23/2008 10:36:08 AM

More gibber jabber, advances in technology has nothing to do with woman becoming so enlightened.


I'm going to take that as, "the technology did not make them more inclined to be liberated or seek roles that were typically male or cause liberation." You have to admit that, starting with the printing press, technology has been making everyone more enlightened. To exclude women from that is to assert something about them quite rude.

The 50s was a tipping point for women's traditional roles because of technology. Much of their traditional labor disappeared. At one time a woman who stayed at home really contributed half, if not more, just cooking, cleaning, and taking care of children. But by then we had, the dishwasher, the automatic washing machine, vacuum cleaner, and numerous other convenient appliances (and disposable diapers came not too far after). And women were starting to drive. Try washing clothes by hand some day and consider the difference between your day and someone in the 1930s.

To believe this did not only contribute, but was a major part of the impetus for, the rise of feminism, is to have your head in the sand. Everyone wants to feel like they're a valued member of society and the majority of decent people derive that from how much they contribute to it. When you can have all your work done for the day by 10:00 AM you start thinking...

(and it contributed many other ways but this was a simple one to explain)

ok... back to the main topic.
 cheryl000
Joined: 11/16/2007
Msg: 213
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/23/2008 6:21:17 PM
I was told once that I was more of a man than most men by someone who meant it to be degrading to me as a woman. At first I felt hurt because I am all woman and there is nothing about me or in me that resembles a man. Then I started to wonder why a woman is refered to as a man just because she is strong. I had 3 kids when my husband left for another woman and had to not only try not to show fear and weakness, but I had to work and feed my kids and when the sink was clogged or when the car broke down, I had to fix it. a few times I called a repair man and when he knew I was a single woman he charged me twice the going rate. I had a big sign on my forehead saying "stupid woman". I did not want to be strong or "manly" but I had to fight every day to provide for my kids and not be taken advantage of because I am a woman (a blond too). I put myself through college and then put my kids through and baught my home and mowed the grass and laid down the tile in the basement floor...I had to remodel so the house was nice for my kids because the house I could afford was a fixer-upper.
I would have loved to be a happily married woman who was submissive to a husband and father. I would have had dinner on the table when he came home and his children clean and well dressed. I didnt have that luxury. I survived though, and now if I am called a man it's ok with me because the men I have seen are not so strong....but if the word defines one who can stand alone and be strong. Yes, I would say I have become that.
I still say a male is one who has a penis though and I dont.
A male with no job, who sleeps around, beats his wife, and doesnt support his children is still called a man, isn't he? why?
this is not directed towards you or with any hostility so please do not take this personally. I just wanted to give people something to think about, ok? god love ya.
 VaFishnetstockings4u
Joined: 9/3/2006
Msg: 214
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To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/24/2008 7:40:39 AM
God took a rib from Adam and gave to Eve well she did not obey Adam when she went into the for bidden forest and ate off that apple tree ....

“For richer or poorer, for better or worse, in sickness and in health... I will love, honor and obey thee all the days of our lives.”

Thus go our wedding vows, our promises made to our spouse, and more so to our God.

But more than obligations to fulfill, they are gifts - because these vows hold the secret to having a happily married life.

“I Promise To Love.”

If you've studied the words of the bible scriptures and read it carefully through you'll find that God asked man to, love , honor , sumit give his life and obey and be faithful to his spouse, how ever us women are required to do the same.
God doesn't require women to let men abuse them in no way shape or form, for it's a sin for woman to allow a man to that to her.

He meant for marriage to be an equal partnership of both equals each other having an equal say and authority in these matters of decisions of marriage and family.

Thus the man is suppose to obey and listen fullfills all his spouses desires and wishes , wants and needs and she does the same for him. "obey your wife" so he put it more in a more hidden way, where a spiritually minded woman could read & understand it & teach it gently & lovingly & patiently to her husband.

Most men will come around to doing it if the wife is loving & grateful for all he does in fulfilling her requests. But God's version of marriage is of two complete equals, The head & the heart are equally important & needed & in control of the body, the family.

I watch a movie on Love , Honor and Obey and parts of it disturbed me then I read the book based on the film and it fully dawned on me , that I did take my vows serious and the words were - Love , Honor & Cherrish but I stiill did obey as that was how I was raised to believe that woman had to love , honor and obey her man. Whats sad is abuse in our world today has gotton worse being beaten does not have a thing to do with loving someone and pledging to obey them till death do you part , that I'll never understand .

Great topic here thanks for sharing it!

Wishing each of your much happiness and success in finding that
one true real love again. Brenny
 smileee4u
Joined: 11/8/2007
Msg: 215
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/24/2008 10:00:00 AM
Until only recently, women were NOT ALLOWED to become ministers. Most people get married by men, now a days..... even still. So, a man giving the vows at a wedding for the woman to OBEY.... well, what does that mean? duhhhhh
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 217
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/25/2008 3:18:15 PM
Very concise and well put, Like the Wind. We live in a society of serial polygamy as the base. If a divorce rate of over 50% and nearly 80% of marriages, where the man, or the woman cheats and has sex outside of the bond of marriage. The male of the species was designed to impregnate as many women as possible in order to preserve the species from extinction. The woman on the other hand has the same urge as she can keep the sperm of up to three individuals viable, for up to a week, insure impregnation during ovulation.
 fixitfred
Joined: 11/10/2007
Msg: 219
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To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/28/2008 12:55:28 AM

lower quality males ran around impregnating as many females as they could.
Last time I took part in any female impregnating I needed the cooperation on the impregnee besides shooting blanks I try to keep my impregnating tool wrapped.
 sweet_n_heart
Joined: 1/31/2007
Msg: 220
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/28/2008 12:38:53 PM
they dont need to honor the person but respect them and as far as the Obey thing, the person has no right to control the other person and both should be free to do what they want (legal and not cheating).
 cheryl000
Joined: 11/16/2007
Msg: 223
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 4/29/2008 5:58:52 AM
I believe a man is made so that he can easily reproduce so that if there is a limited number of men available he can adapt. Since the male sperm is weaker and the male fetus is weaker there are more women in the world and if for some reason the male population would diminish, there would be many women to reproduce from him and replenish.
1. If you get a woman who is 22 and a man who is 22. the man will last about 10 minutes and the woman is just getting started...why do you think that is?
2. A man must get an erection to have intercourse and must wait after he has it to begin again usually...a woman can be receptive when she is sleeping....
3. Women are beautiful like a flower and smell sweet and soft but men are sometimes not so appealing or pleasant to smell so it makes sence that women are to attract more mates...
I believe in a noncivilized and nonchristian or cultural society, the women would be the ones most likely to need more than one mate for contentment.
Men are made to be more dominanat to fight with the other men who compete for their female so that the stronger will mate and the species will live on.
4. Man was not made to dominate or he would have been the one who offered the "apple" in the garden. Satan knew who to go to and he knew if he pursuaded the woman, the man would follow her lead.
5. Man was made first after the animals and it makes sence he would be the most like them. woman was created from a rib on his side..not a toe or a hair to be below him or over him...but by his side.
my true opinion is we are not apes and we are not animals and we should live love and think on a more intellectual level to see eachother as equal but diffeent...
However, the man is the strongest and the woman is the softest. Men are happier when they feel like they rule the jungle and conquer. it doesnt hurt to let a man feel like or think that he is the boss.....lol

I also feel that if a man is smart and leads wisely, and a woman is able to trust him and respects him...there is not a woman alive who would not worship the ground he walks on and eagerly follow him blindly. Unfortunately men like this are few and far in between and many woman must pick up the slack. this makes life harder on a woman because she should be able to have and raise children, and do her duty as a woman, and rest assured he is doing his also, as a provider and protector.
 fixitfred
Joined: 11/10/2007
Msg: 225
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To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 5/3/2008 2:29:12 PM

4. Man was not made to dominate or he would have been the one who offered the "apple" in the garden. Satan knew who to go to and he knew if he pursuaded the woman, the man would follow her lead.
I think we can say Satin went to the weakest one, yes the woman. The man did follow because he trusted her and women have been getting men in trouble ever since.


David Lewis - I said he can't take away MY TURN. His turn is his turn but he can't have MY TURN as well. That's what the OBEY type guys want. They want their turn and MY TURN too. Greedy SOB's. Do you really need it spelled out to you.

What's up with you?

I also don't like men that don't listen, can't read, twist others words and are generally comabtive instead of being honest in their debate.

Maybe you should follow your own advice. He simply said the stronger person "can TAKE", when you forcfully take you don't need the permission of the one you're taking it from.

He also later said you could easily find weak men or because you have a nice bod, men that will put up with your [insert your own expletive here].
 StrangerInTheHouse
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 226
To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 5/3/2008 4:52:35 PM
Likethewind wrote:



I agree with StrangerInTheHouse that this does resemble a master/slave relationship. But I also agree that power dynamics have always existed in any relationship. The one who makes the most money makes the rules. Unfortunate, but true. But isn't it ironic that the proponents of the submissive wife role also vehemently oppose women working for pay. Not only do they find a strong, independent woman threatening, they would find such a woman less controllable. Her income would be considered a bargainning chip in the marriage. Her husband would be more inclined to see her as an equal partner. Someone just as important as he is. Unfortunately, in the past, women had to rely on sex as a bargainning chip in their marriages. Not only was that demeaning to the wife, but also very insulting to the man too. Most men know when they are being manipulated. I believe that this sort of tactics diminished women in the eyes of their husbands as well. Not only do the husbands begin to resent them, they begin to view them as "domestic whores." Sad, but true. That is what a traditional wife was: just a glorified whore. A domestic whore; one who exchanges sexual and domestic services for financial support and sustainance. Simple as that.

But there is a better way. I believe that marriages based on true equality would be ideal for everyone, including society. If both partners focused on meeting EACHOTHER'S NEEDS rather than just the wife meeting her husband's needs alone, I think everyone would be much happier. Well, most people any way.

In my mind, the ideal situation would be to have a meritocratic decision making process, as you say...
But, as you also say, the inequalities of the outside world DO interpose themselves on the institution of marriage, and I would add that to also be true upon ANY relationship in society; whether it's parent/child, siblings, whatever.
Even in casual friendships: you might have made mudpies down in the creek when you were five or six with a kid whose parents owned the chocolate factory in town, but at a certain point, people seperate into groups where the kids whose parents have pools and new cars go with one group and if you live in an apartment or don't have those things; you're with another group.
I also think that the degree of inequality between marriage partners is almost always directly reciprocal to the amount of income they bring in or the relative economic assets possessed seperately by them.
It's always been that way.
The more unequal the income levels in the society become, the greater the people tend to be ordered by those different levels.
Since women are earning as much or more than men in many relationships, that "obey" stuff might be more applicable to the one with the lesser means, rather than the male... or just not useful at all, as the mates tend to do what they each think is right and not ask, necessarily...
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 227
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To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 5/3/2008 5:14:20 PM
I really don't think money = power AUTOMATICALLY. It depends on people's attitudes towards it.
 fixitfred
Joined: 11/10/2007
Msg: 230
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To love, honor, and... OBEY?!?
Posted: 5/3/2008 6:20:20 PM

I really don't think money = power AUTOMATICALLY. It depends on people's attitudes towards it.
I don't know where you live but unless you moved into the Unabombers old place Money can and does buy you power.


Fixitfred - obviously rationale is not your forte
On these POF forums I agree with you. I would feel the same way in an insane asylum.

I see you have company in your delusion so at least you won't be lonely.
I wish I could say the same about you but I'm sure you have them lining up to be with you but with an attitude like that you will constantly be looking for someone that understands you and treats like you feel you need to be treated because I don't think he exists anywhere.

Good luck with that.
Thanks, you too. Oh you were being sarcastic, I should have realized but I wasn't.

Oh and by the way - the bible was written by men for men
Strange opinion but you're entitled to it.

and like many greedy men you seem to like it.
This tells me you never read or really don't understand what's in there.

When you find many women are now finally wise to that don't come whining back here that you can't keep a woman.
I really wish we could compare track records on keeping anybody. I'm sure I would have you beat badly. POF is the woman's whine and dine area.
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