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 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 9
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?Page 7 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
NAFTA actually had very little to do with free trade. That's why it was oppossed by groups that are pro-free trade.

Free trade doesn't even neccessarily benefit corporations. It's based on the idea that industries on one country will be able to produce a good more cheaply than industries in another country. The other countries will have their own industries with a comparative advantage. In order for free trade to work those industries with a comparative disadvantage will either go out of business, move to another country, or switch to an industry with a comparative advantage. Thus each country will see a loss of industries that they don't have a comparative advantage in. Some corporations will suffer under free trade if they can't afford to move to another country or switch product lines. Those who are pro free trade tout the benefits of cheaper goods but the reality is that it's a lose-lose proposition. Countries have to surrender economic sovereingty because they become dependent on foreign countries for many good and services. High wage jobs invariably go overseas resulting in lower wages for most people. The quality of goods and services take a back seat to cheap prices (no one can afford the higher quality goods and services) and we're all stuck buying cheap goods (in every sense of the word cheap).
 bob0colo
Joined: 4/9/2006
Msg: 31
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History
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 3/1/2007 2:30:00 AM
demanding our legislators grant them immediate legalilzation
__________

I dont see all these folks demanding sh$$.
Anti-union...
Anti-middle class...
demanding legalilzation or not...... I watched Monford kill the meat cutters union in Colo.....
Swift bought Monford........How many SUITS were taken in????????

I hear how THEY demand or that the Teddie lib's want them to vote for him.....
BULL.....
I see what I see....
..
Ruin the middle class. Trucks moving imports into the US...
Gee maybe the longshoreman disappear (over priced UNION).
We can have a ship from China unloaded in Mex......
to Walmart via Mex. Trucker ........
You will save soooooo much money ...BUY WAL-y
 gizmosellschickens
Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 43
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SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 5/24/2007 3:39:19 PM
Conspiracy nuts out there? The trade and commerce with the 3 countries equal the GDP of China right now so the three economy are connected except for the labor markets, and currencies, certain laws. NAFTA was 60,000 pages of technical information about to define a product that should be free of traiffs, and technical langauge about country of orgin products information. The most likely situation is the US dollar used thru out North America, and the US probadly expanding the border, but I EU style situation will not work. Still, be better we promoted localization of production instead of shipping off to China. The gobalization is here stay and nothing we can do about it.
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 77
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 7/8/2007 9:57:21 PM
Basically, "they" want to get rid of the middleclass.

Masters and slaves.
 AvidArteest
Joined: 2/27/2007
Msg: 79
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 7/10/2007 7:06:46 PM
"So where in the stuff you posted is proof that somebody in charge is going in that direction?"

The REAL proof is when all of your income will be next too nothing.

It's happening Bubba...
 Flyers_Phan
Joined: 1/16/2005
Msg: 86
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SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 7/25/2007 6:02:19 AM

the populace would not stand for it.


what are we going to do, fight the government? Have an election and hope the next person doesn't go for it? It's already planned, at least it seems that way, who knows...
 emotionalheat
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 90
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SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 7/25/2007 8:40:21 PM
So far the best on target post I've seen is from Eye8. So I would like to post in addition to those comments.

Keep in mind that
1. the Euro Dollar has risen for the first time in 12 years, over the American dollar. Now search the phrase Central World Bank, and take a gander at the countries who have their own branches of a Central World Bank. Then look at why! There are several countries who have opened their connecting boarders in the same way that the NAU is attempting.

2. A couple years ago, I came across an obscure article on the web that addressed the Federal Reserve system becoming part of this Central World Bank. Not long after, I ran across another article discussing how our government was attempting to have the Federal Reserve "infiltrate" the CWB by becoming a member, and institute policy and regulations based on how the Federal Reserve works in the USA. Guess what, in 2006 Ben Benanke (unbelievably) has the reighns now in the CWB and it looks like he will have until at least 2010. The CWB begins to resemble the Fed. more and more. http://www.iie.com/publications/papers/truman0306-ga.pdf

3. For several years immigration from Mexico, legal and otherwise, has run rampant without control. When the outcry was loud enough, a "new" immigration bill was proposed. Some 1400 pages, so incomplete that it could not be even be presented for public view, and so full of hidden agenda that when it came for vote, it was decided to be tabled for another session. And then think that Bush himself, made comments that the border patrols and immigration movements were just temporary, while discussing the NAU with Mexican officials. http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14965

4. If #3 is not enough, consider that the melting pot of the world, for the first time in it's history, has LAWS that require certain information to be distributed in BOTH English and Spanish.

5. For those of you who believe that we are simply gaining blue collar workers, you must ask yourselves - and what of middle America? Again, you have to do the research, and it's only on the web. Everytime you make phone call to a 24/7 number, the language you hear, may in fact be broken english, but it is a second language. Also, if you think your job is secure or if you think your skills and experience are worth anything, do some job searches. Thousands are out of work, and the jobs that they've had for the last 20 years are now paying between $5 and $15 dollars LESS and hour. That's 20 years of skill and experience that has built a way of life, down the drain. But it's more than that, it's an equalizer - the Federal minimum wage has just gone up. All those who have worked up from $5.50 to $8.50 and hour, over years, are now only slightly ahead of those who come into an industry with no experience. And those who loose jobs are being forced to take lesser paying jobs. Equalizing, slowly, the pay between, the working poor and the middle class. While the actual middle class is being 'globalized'.

Further, how will over the border workers be treated 'legally'. Will they be required to subscribe to the morals and values of the ethics that drive this country in the form of laws? Will income earned in America, by anyone, be taxable to America? Will we have to pay taxes to more than one governing body? Will the word extradition even have a meaning? Will the Amero become the new legal tender.

Finally, the big question, now that we have a Central World Bank, and that World Bank is gaining new members (like the Federal Reserve) is this a step toward TRUE globalization?
And if it is - we better all be looking at where the Power is, who holds those reigns and who are the driving force behind them all?

I SAY NO TO THE NAU AND ANY WHO WISH TO DO THE SAME THING --

The following except says it all. From: http://www.rutherford.org/articles_db/commentary.asp?record_id=488
July 25, 2007 The End of America by: John W. Whitehead


"So what can we do about it?

First, we must demand that Congress closely analyze this proposed transnational merger. Second, Americans need to demand that President Bush be more forthright about his intentions. Third, “we the people” need to voice our concerns to our elected representatives and insist that they protect our rights. Certain members of Congress have already formed a Coalition to block the North American Union, while some states are working on resolutions that would oppose the implementation of a North American Union as well as any plans that would lead to the integration of the United States into a larger international governmental structure."

Mid August we meet with Canadian officials regarding the NAU. Speak up now!
 emotionalheat
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 92
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SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 7/26/2007 11:21:33 AM
Responses made by LeanLife may come off as being flippant or arrogant, however, it may simply be a lack of understanding, either because I did make my points clear, or because our democracy and way of life are foreign. I hope the following provides a better explanation of my first reply for everyone.



emotionalheat
For those of you who believe that we are simply gaining blue collar workers, you must ask yourselves - and what of middle America? Again, you have to do the research, and it's only on the web. Everytime you make phone call to a 24/7 number, the language you hear, may in fact be broken english, but it is a second language.

leanlife
And those voices are buying American now they have money or, if American isn't good enough then some self reflection is in order.[quote/]


*What makes you think they’re buying American? The reason we’re talking to them in the first place is because they are paid a wage that could not be lived on here. So if they’re buying American, I want to know how they can get American cheaper than we can.


emotionalheat
Thousands are out of work, and the jobs that they've had for the last 20 years are now paying between $5 and $15 dollars LESS and hour.

leanlife
Then they should take advantage of Free Trade and SPP and move her to Alberta where you can start at $12 per hour if you give a hoot then move quickly to $20 plus if you are willing to work harder. So people powered short we are up here that it's unreal.[quote/]

*Most people are not looking to be part of a nomadic envoy. They are trying to maintain roots in community, in family and friends and create a stable foundation and home life.

However, If Alberta is willing, we have about 12 million Mexicans we can send your way.


emotionalheat
That's 20 years of skill and experience that has built a way of life, down the drain.

leanlife
No wonder the Chinese and EU are giving you grief. Your argument seems to be that the world owes these people a living simply because they did this for so long and were ther first rather than change to meet a world demand in a free market. Cheaper, better, faster are not a communist idea but rather a competivie idea.[quote/]

*The world owes us nothing, we owe the future of this world to those who will follow us. To leave them a world where government means only power for the rich is not a legacy I choose to leave without a fight. What is being committed to has not been open to this Democratic society. It has taken years to formulate and has been set up to secretly infiltrate, mascaraed by a an avalanche of dis-information. The whole process has taken place, virtually, in private and has taken away the power of the people to govern their lives via a congressional system.


emotionalheat
But it's more than that, it's an equalizer - the Federal minimum wage has just gone up. All those who have worked up from $5.50 to $8.50 and hour, over years, are now only slightly ahead of those who come into an industry with no experience. And those who loose jobs are being forced to take lesser paying jobs. Equalizing, slowly, the pay between, the working poor and the middle class. While the actual middle class is being 'globalized'.

leanlife
Well they could become the new guy's bosses as they surely have more experience and make more than minimum wage. Or, sell their houses to the new workers for a profit and then move to a place that pays better bu, I think once again, you are saying is that things should stay the same because it is certain people's reality in that they cannot adapt, where others can.[quote/]

*We have been sold a bill of goods called the American Dream. In that dream people who are willing to work hard, can afford a home for their family, a community of friendships and a foundation of safety and security. It was meant to end the break up of families who were forced to separate because the “jobs that paid well” were somewhere else. Americans "have worked hard" to provide such an environment and the government has been systematically destroying it, behind our backs. To save it, to protect it, we need to fight a government that we have let out of the bag. A government that keeps secrets and has missions to provide power and wealth for themselves, at the cost of a free society.
 emotionalheat
Joined: 6/27/2007
Msg: 94
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SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 7/27/2007 7:57:02 PM
It's always refreshing to see the kind of drive and the optimism of people like LeanLife. When I see such optimism, it is the cynicism in me that wonders, can we indeed have a generation, with this kind of fortitude for change? Indeed those would be the ideal generation to forge a path into the future. However, they must have the ability, also, to lead, and the strength of understanding so that others are not left behind. This understanding is the difference between those who are opportunists and those who will be a leading and guiding force into our future.

My own optimistic view would see an idealistic world society. I would certainly be a dreamer if I did not see such a future coming about without turmoil, drama and grief. However, I do not want it forced upon us by those whose opportunistic ways are self serving. I do not want those whose power is dictated by their greed to become the leader into such a future. I do not want a world economy run by an elite few.

I am grounded in the belief that the basic rights of humans are most aptly communicated through the American Declaration of Independence and it's Bill of Rights. Though it may be in need of some minor updates it is the best way to protect human freedoms.

The issues I bring up in these discussions are issues that relate to the degradation of the democratic society that the USA was founded on. The most basic being a government by the people and for the people. This government has been corrupted and in it's corruption it has lied to and used the people for self aggrandizement.

As a people we must fight against such power, or surely this is the power that will one govern the world.

The opportunity here, in these forums, in our day networking, should be to claim back our voice to run a government by the people, for the people - so that one day that ideal of being a world society will include such doctrine.

That is the difference between opportunity and the opportunistic ideal.
 Woodsmoke and Oranges
Joined: 2/3/2007
Msg: 104
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/7/2007 11:48:40 AM

^^ O fall the countries mentioned in that article, none of then are Pagans. That said I as a Canadian, and a member of the commonwealth am just as against the Idea of a NAU as you americans. I DO NOT want ot be a part of any union that would see Canada adopting ANY american traits..I love my state run health care system, I love my Freedoms to ask the questions, I love the fact that we Canadians are well respected arouund the Globe and I do not want to be associated with either Bush or CLinton. Screw the NAU, the day it becomes an acuality is the day I start my own 'tea party' and declare war on "the man"


Oh man!, 'god save the queen', time to abolish the monarch as our head of state and all that accompanies it, especially the office of GG.

You know it's easy to slam the Americans. How about looking at our own home grown crap. Thieving adscam pencil pushers, Dion an former Environment minister that did nothing except expel hotair for Kyoto and then of course the Seperatist in Quebec.

As a Canadian I was educated to differentiate us from the Americans, but really what are Canadian traits? What are American traits?
 NwMke
Joined: 8/1/2007
Msg: 107
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SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/27/2007 10:54:07 PM
.

It is interesting that when I clik for the link to NACC from the SPP website I'm automatically redirected to the Council of Americas, as subordinated entity, where coincidentally David Rockfeller is the lifetime Honorary Chairman.
What are the odds?!


"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected the promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world-government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the National autodetermination practiced in past centuries"
--David Rockefeller in an address to a Trilateral Commission meeting in June of 1991


well now that you mention it
 HAGAR TH
Joined: 8/10/2007
Msg: 109
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 8/28/2007 2:27:15 PM
I've noticed that no one seems to have noticed the subgroups involved in this integration process.

Start with the Can AM BTA which directly works in implementing the desired goals of the SPP. Can/Am BTA Annual Washington, D.C. and Ottawa conferences and meetings with senior level government officials.

http://www.canambta.org/html/functional_regions.htm

http://www.canambta.org/html/security_prosperity.htm

Also there is the PNWER ( Pacific NorthWest Economic Region) is a regional U.S.-Canadian forum dedicated to encouraging global economic competitiveness and preserving our world-class natural environment. PNWER is recognized by both the United States and Canada as the “model” for regional and bi-national cooperation because of its proven success. PNWER is a respected voice and resource for our region, and provides the public and private sectors a cross-border forum for unfiltered dialogue that capitalizes upon the synergies between business leaders and elected officials who work to advance the region’s global competitiveness.

http://www.pnwer.org/Home/tabid/36/Default.aspx

http://www.pnwer.org/ProgramAreas/WorkingGroups/tabid/143/Default.aspx

http://www.411designstreet.ultimahosts.net/Links/tabid/270/Default.aspx

The Areas covered by PNWER are Washington, Alaska, Idaho, Oregon, Montana, British Columbia, Alberta and the Yukon.

After all that you have the agreement between BC and Alberta on Tilma which is just a smaller form of the BTA agreement, which was PRO Business and ANTI Sovereign state.

If you live in any of the above areas in the USA expect an agreement like TILMA to be negotiated secretely like it was here in Canada.
 Learjet29
Joined: 2/3/2007
Msg: 117
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 10/12/2007 11:02:38 AM
As soon as the Mexican trucks are allowed to cross American borders it will all be over with for the US and Canadian trucking and shipping industry just for starters. The ports are under construction in Shanghai China and Mexico to handle the movement. More labor from the US and Canada will move to Mexico and China. Its all about greed, power and money. Why would big business pay living wages to workers in the US and Canada when all of that cheap labor is available in Mexico and China. I read that the average income in Mexico is about $6000 per year and we have all have heard the horror stories out of China. This is all preplanned and under way right now. It’s being introduced one piece at a time so that supposedly nobody will notice. The highways, inland ports and rail systems are all factored in. The sad part about this is that we tax payers are footing the bill for all of this to end of our own demise.
 gizmosellschickens
Joined: 5/20/2007
Msg: 121
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SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 11/21/2007 10:29:31 AM
Question 1. Why do have 30,000 rules on making a potato chip, and then you throw state rules on how the package is seal, and steps to perform that step. Standarization of policies, and procedures is not bad thing at all. Lots of fringe lunatic on the left that need to see reality more.

China is eating American producers for its main course, and Canada, Mexico are its snack food. Therefore, unless we are willing to accept a higher costs and lower standard of living intergration, and interdependance is the way its heading. Probadly be****oaches food before a EU style confederation will occur, but the process is not stopping, and fringe groups are only stalling the inevidable intergration occuring.
 OneBlend
Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 124
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SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 1/3/2008 8:00:06 PM
Great post redwood!
And most people are too stupid to understand the implications of losing our sovereignty. Anyone for this, is Anti-American - and that includes obviously our progressive (keyword), corrupt government officials (republicans and democrats who keep telling us the only way we can stop living in fear is to sacrifice freedoms for security. When you listen to the bulk of the presidential candidates .. with the exception of one, they keep skirting the real issues)
In another forum Britains are posting about the joys of the European Union - can't keep up with the cost of living NO or LOW paying jobs, growing surveillance of the citizens. Sound familiar?????

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0111/p01s01-woeu.html

Unfortunately, we're almost there and it IS the same plan for us -no one is doing shiat about it and people rant in their sleep about "conspiracy theorists" - well it is a conspiracy against the people. The preached "globalization" is what we should be fearing ... the real terrorists are those in our own warped administration (the puppeteers) and elites whose agendas are committing the crimes against AMERICA and it's liberty - simply because power is all their after. Frustrating when people are so brainwashed that their own government could pass controversial legislation in the dark of the night- yet no Congressional oversight and big media whitewashes it with who had breast implants today. THATS how simple-minded they view the people.
 OneBlend
Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 126
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History
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 1/4/2008 8:57:18 PM
I'm not surprised. Bush and his admin needs to be tossed out on their a$$e$ ... well that should have happened along time ago. Lock the criminals up and throw away the key!
 OneBlend
Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 127
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SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 1/4/2008 9:13:58 PM
Here's a long read ...
http://www.nowpublic.com/obama-cfr
 oddandy
Joined: 3/5/2008
Msg: 133
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 3/10/2008 3:07:01 PM

Free trade only benefits corporations, not populations.


Tell that to the guy in India that took your neighbor's job and is now making a BUNDLE by his country's standards
 OneBlend
Joined: 3/31/2007
Msg: 137
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SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 3/23/2008 1:18:18 PM

People need to realize what is important and what is not and what has true value and what is worthless.
People are so stupid when they are without spirit and those who are memorized and worshiping material, fooled by the illusion and abetting the frauds being committed against all man and earth are without spirit


Quoting Brock Chisholm (the first director of the UN World Health Organization (WHO):
"To achieve world government it's necessary to remove from the minds of men, their individualism, their loyalty to their families, national patriotism and religion."

Well then, we are certainly on track for NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM ... New World Order. People still don't know the phrase is on the reverse side of their dollars ..... I don't think they've ever given it a thought.
 angelsands
Joined: 9/17/2005
Msg: 151
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 10/23/2008 12:48:47 PM
I AM POSITIVELY SURE that Mexicans and Canadians are AGAINST this kind of situation.. They already know about NAFTA... just a scam as someone put it out... it just benefited the corporations... and not the people.. Besides.. Canada is not about to give is oil and diamonds.. and as for the cheap labor with Mexicans.. well.. let's just say that if the NAU happens.. We will have to look else where for cheap labor....NOT GOOD FOR THE AMERICAN BUSINESS.... Specially now, that Mexicans are starting to do business with China, India, Russia and some south american countries. Next thing we know, we would probably have to flee to Mexico.... FENCE OR NOT... We never know..!!
 Phoebus2k9
Joined: 3/15/2008
Msg: 152
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 10/24/2008 11:51:16 AM
Im sorry but where did you find this post in order to reply to it ? i mean its not even in any of the main areas ? i had to do a search to find it ?


Now as for this there are a bunch of youtube videos talking about it. So its not like its not happening which makes it even worse because no media outlet is talking about during any of the CA elections or the U.S elections ? Like come on ppl this is not a big deal...taking down the borders ? taking away your rights on either side of the border ....if this is not a big deal then i dunno what to tell you.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 154
SPP, NAFTA, NAU ~ Why?
Posted: 3/13/2009 5:30:11 PM
Any union requires willing partners. I know for a fact Canada won't go for it.

A partnership will mean that the US dictates the policies - it's just going to be the senior partner. Our sovereignty is infringed on enough already. It's not anti-American, just that we like to have some say in our own affairs.
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